Re: Melatonin or 5HTP or Serotonin

[Guest guest]

Rich: I have had wonderful results from taking Melatonin for sleep issues. Dr.

Dantini puts his patients on 5-10 mg per night, so I started at 9 mg, then

decreased it to 6 mg after six months, now at a 3 mg per night maintenance dose.

I use Natrol brand that has a bit of calcium and B6 added.

I have had CFS for years (since childhood, now age 54 this next month), had the

sore throat and swollen glands, etc. in 1970 with a bad flu episode right into

college, but when menopause started happening it went to FMS. Dr. Dantini's

protocol of Valtrex and food allergy diet helped the CFS part but I still have

sore muscles. With Recup I can work again (two part-time jobs which almost

equate full time) but I still hurt all the time. I do chiropractic and massage

therapy to keep the kinks out, but I still need Vidodin for the pain when I push

too hard. Yeah, quit pushing too hard, but the bills keep piling up.

I see people suggesting 5HTP or serotonin, and some people take LTryptophan to

get the serotonin, which makes the melatonin, etc. Which one does what, and how

do you know which to take and which is better for you?

Thanks for all your wonderful e-mails. It really helps all of us to learn about

so many facets of this ailment area.

in La Selva Beach CA

[Guest guest]

My biggest pain reliever is plenty of Magnesium ad B6. It is important to

get the kind of Mg into you that your body will recognize. For me, its in

liquid form.

SAM-e was the first thing that gave me an indication how sleep deprived I

was. I take it in the morning and again before 3 pm.

Now also take l-Tryptophan at bedtime...... it makes serotonin and with

enough niacin, makes melatonin.

5-htp did nothing for me, melatonin I could not take more than two days in a

row and did not get a sleep response.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

With Recup I can work again (two part-time jobs which almost equate full

time) but I still hurt all the time. I do chiropractic and massage therapy to

keep the kinks out, but I still need Vidodin for the pain when I push too hard.

Yeah, quit pushing too hard, but the bills keep piling up.

I see people suggesting 5HTP or serotonin, and some people take LTryptophan

to get the serotonin, which makes the melatonin, etc. Which one does what,

and how do you know which to take and which is better for you?

Thanks for all your wonderful e-mails. It really helps all of us to learn

about so many facets of this ailment area.

in La Selva Beach CA

[Guest guest]

Hi mjh,

Why couldn't you take melatonin for more than two days in a row?

What did it do to you -- if not make you sleepy?

>

> My biggest pain reliever is plenty of Magnesium ad B6. It is

important to

> get the kind of Mg into you that your body will recognize. For

me, its in

> liquid form.

>

> SAM-e was the first thing that gave me an indication how sleep

deprived I

> was. I take it in the morning and again before 3 pm.

>

> Now also take l-Tryptophan at bedtime...... it makes serotonin and

with

> enough niacin, makes melatonin.

>

> 5-htp did nothing for me, melatonin I could not take more than two

days in a

> row and did not get a sleep response.

>

> mjh

> " The Basil Book "

> _http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_

(http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, .

You're certainly welcome.

I'm glad that melatonin works for you.

Here's a website that discusses the relationships between these

substances--see the second diagram:

http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/aminoacidderivatives.html

I think that which one will work best for a person will depend on

their genetic variations and whether they have a vicious circle

going. Tetrahydrobiopterin is necessary to convert tryptophan to 5-

HTP, and people with a reverse MTHFR SNP will be low in B4T, so they

may not be able to do the conversion. To convert serotonin to

melatonin requires methylation, so people with a methylation block

may not be able to the that. Some PWCs have both, so their

serotonin metabolism is locked up in more ways than one. I favor

fixing the root causes, and then hopefully all these reactions will

be able to take place normally. That's why I'm so hopeful about the

Amy Yasko approach. I think it gets down to the basis of the

problems.

Rich

> I see people suggesting 5HTP or serotonin, and some people take

LTryptophan to get the serotonin, which makes the melatonin, etc.

Which one does what, and how do you know which to take and which is

better for you?

>

> Thanks for all your wonderful e-mails. It really helps all of us

to learn about so many facets of this ailment area.

>

> in La Selva Beach CA

[Guest guest]

Rich,

I have observed that people here seem to have a very strong preference for

taking either tryptophan, or 5-HTP. (I much prefer the former.) Can you deduce

anything from those preferences?

Adrienne

I think that which one will work best for a person will depend on

their genetic variations and whether they have a vicious circle

going. Tetrahydrobiopterin is necessary to convert tryptophan to 5-

HTP, and people with a reverse MTHFR SNP will be low in B4T, so they

may not be able to do the conversion.

[Guest guest]

Another very effective option for me is SAM-e, another amino acid.

SAM-e helps with not only serotonin but also norepinephrine and dopamine.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

Posted by: " Adrienne G. " _duckblossm@... _

(mailto:duckblossm@...?Subject=

Re:%20Melatonin%20or%205HTP%20or%20Serotonin) _duckduck_87501

_ (duckduck_87501)

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:19 pm (PST)

Rich,

I have observed that people here seem to have a very strong preference for

taking either tryptophan, or 5-HTP. (I much prefer the former.) Can you deduce

anything from those preferences?

Adrienne

I think that which one will work best for a person will depend on

their genetic variations and whether they have a vicious circle

going. Tetrahydrobiopterin is necessary to convert tryptophan to 5-

HTP, and people with a reverse MTHFR SNP will be low in B4T, so they

may not be able to do the conversion.

[Guest guest]

hi all

You probably know this already but just wished to remind. Taking some

sunlight directly into eyes in the morning also helps with serotonine

problems. Even 15 minutes helps me with sleep.

Nil

Re: Re: Melatonin or 5HTP or Serotonin

> Rich,

> I have observed that people here seem to have a very strong preference for

> taking either tryptophan, or 5-HTP. (I much prefer the former.) Can you

> deduce anything from those preferences?

> Adrienne

>

> I think that which one will work best for a person will depend on

> their genetic variations and whether they have a vicious circle

> going. Tetrahydrobiopterin is necessary to convert tryptophan to 5-

> HTP, and people with a reverse MTHFR SNP will be low in B4T, so they

> may not be able to do the conversion.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lets not forget the importance of plain old NIACIN (not flush free) to help

along the conversion of tryptophan >> serotonin >> melatonin.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

Posted by: " rvankonynen " _richvank@... _

(mailto:richvank@...?Subject= Re:%20Melatonin%20or%205HTP%20or%20Serotonin)

_rvankonynen _

(rvankonynen)

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:27 am (PST)

Hi, Adrienne.

O.K., I will go out on a limb!

If a person finds that tryptophan does the job for them in terms of

helping them to get good sleep, then I think it means that they are

able to make both serotonin and melatonin from it. That means that

they must have enough tetrahydrobiopterin and methylation capacity

to do this. However, they must have been short of tryptophan,

either because of a diet lacking in tryptophan or because they are

not able to absorb it well enough in their gut or to transport it

well enough across the blood-brain barrier.

If tryptophan doesn't work for a person, but 5-HTP does, then I

think it may mean that they don't have enough tetrahydrobiopterinth

but they do have sufficient methylation capacity.

If 5-HTP doesn't work either, then I would suspect that their

methylation cycle isn't working well.

If SAMe works for them, then I suspect that they have a deficit in

their methylation capacity, but they probably don't have a CBS

upregulation or an SUOX downregulation, or they probably would not

be able to tolerate SAMe.

There could also be SNPs in one or more of the enzymes that are in

the pathways for making serotonin and/or melatonin, and I haven't

considered those in the above discussion, but I think some of those

showed up in the CDC collaborative work that was released a few

months ago on the polymorphisms in the genome in CFS.

Rich

[Guest guest]

Hi, Adrienne.

O.K., I will go out on a limb!

If a person finds that tryptophan does the job for them in terms of

helping them to get good sleep, then I think it means that they are

able to make both serotonin and melatonin from it. That means that

they must have enough tetrahydrobiopterin and methylation capacity

to do this. However, they must have been short of tryptophan,

either because of a diet lacking in tryptophan or because they are

not able to absorb it well enough in their gut or to transport it

well enough across the blood-brain barrier.

If tryptophan doesn't work for a person, but 5-HTP does, then I

think it may mean that they don't have enough tetrahydrobiopterin,

but they do have sufficient methylation capacity.

If 5-HTP doesn't work either, then I would suspect that their

methylation cycle isn't working well.

If SAMe works for them, then I suspect that they have a deficit in

their methylation capacity, but they probably don't have a CBS

upregulation or an SUOX downregulation, or they probably would not

be able to tolerate SAMe.

There could also be SNPs in one or more of the enzymes that are in

the pathways for making serotonin and/or melatonin, and I haven't

considered those in the above discussion, but I think some of those

showed up in the CDC collaborative work that was released a few

months ago on the polymorphisms in the genome in CFS.

Rich

>

> Rich,

> I have observed that people here seem to have a very strong

preference for taking either tryptophan, or 5-HTP. (I much prefer

the former.) Can you deduce anything from those preferences?

> Adrienne

>

> I think that which one will work best for a person will depend

on

> their genetic variations and whether they have a vicious circle

> going. Tetrahydrobiopterin is necessary to convert tryptophan

to 5-

> HTP, and people with a reverse MTHFR SNP will be low in B4T, so

they

> may not be able to do the conversion.

>

>

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: rvankonynen

To:

Hi, Adrienne.

***Hi, Rich.

O.K., I will go out on a limb!

*** That is where I meant to place you, lol. Aren't there more such inferences

we could make from what we already know about ourselves- or test things that

would be telling? Maybe not the most elegant approach, but gee... sure would be

easier for some of us to spend bits of money experimenting- especially if we

were doing that logically- rather than a lot all at once. And maybe get us

partway down the road? I keep feeling like now that Yasko has descibed the

playing field, it must be possible to logically reason out where we are on it.

Adrienne

If a person finds that tryptophan does the job for them in terms of

helping them to get good sleep, then I think it means that they are

able to make both serotonin and melatonin from it. That means that

they must have enough tetrahydrobiopterin and methylation capacity

to do this. However, they must have been short of tryptophan,

either because of a diet lacking in tryptophan or because they are

not able to absorb it well enough in their gut or to transport it

well enough across the blood-brain barrier.

If tryptophan doesn't work for a person, but 5-HTP does, then I

think it may mean that they don't have enough tetrahydrobiopterin,

but they do have sufficient methylation capacity.

If 5-HTP doesn't work either, then I would suspect that their

methylation cycle isn't working well.

If SAMe works for them, then I suspect that they have a deficit in

their methylation capacity, but they probably don't have a CBS

upregulation or an SUOX downregulation, or they probably would not

be able to tolerate SAMe.

There could also be SNPs in one or more of the enzymes that are in

the pathways for making serotonin and/or melatonin, and I haven't

considered those in the above discussion, but I think some of those

showed up in the CDC collaborative work that was released a few

months ago on the polymorphisms in the genome in CFS.

Rich

>

> Rich,

> I have observed that people here seem to have a very strong

preference for taking either tryptophan, or 5-HTP. (I much prefer

the former.) Can you deduce anything from those preferences?

> Adrienne

>

> I think that which one will work best for a person will depend

on

> their genetic variations and whether they have a vicious circle

> going. Tetrahydrobiopterin is necessary to convert tryptophan

to 5-

> HTP, and people with a reverse MTHFR SNP will be low in B4T, so

they

> may not be able to do the conversion.

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> ***Hi, Rich.

>

> O.K., I will go out on a limb!

>

> *** That is where I meant to place you, lol.

***I could see that that's what you were up to!

Aren't there more such inferences we could make from what we already

know about ourselves- or test things that would be telling? Maybe

not the most elegant approach, but gee... sure would be easier for

some of us to spend bits of money experimenting- especially if we

were doing that logically- rather than a lot all at once. And maybe

get us partway down the road? I keep feeling like now that Yasko has

descibed the playing field, it must be possible to logically reason

out where we are on it.

***I agree with this, and am trying to do the same thing.

> Adrienne

***Rich

[Guest guest]

***I agree with this, and am trying to do the same thing.

Way to go, Rich! I thought I was seeing something, but definitely not equipped

to work it through. (Good on principles, fergeddabout the details!) I am surely

rooting for your process here.

Adrienne