Re: HELP: Frozen shoulder, rotator cuff: Cortisone???

August 9, 2006

Dan,

I had shoulder problems early in my case, and it was Lyme. Do you have

Lyme? That bug seems to get into the connective tissues well. I

believe that there is a subclinical form of Marfan also common in PWC,

and I definitely have it. The marker I use for this is Shoemaker's

'wingspan' criteria. Do you have that also? That means the armspan is

greater than your height. This may indicate a genetic connective tissue

disorder of some sort, perhaps one that predisposes one to certain types

of infections in those tissues. Anyway, if it is Lyme causing the

problem, you are having a flare-up for some reason. Standard or

alternative Lyme treatments would perhaps be helpful if this is the

case. Also, to repair those tissues you need similar nutrients,

collagen, eating the connective tissues of chicken, for example (if you

are not vegan), could be helpful.

--Kurt

HELP: " Frozen shoulder " , rotator cuff:

Cortisone???

My shoulder problem continues. I'm working hard on exercises given by

the physical

therapist, and a new one suggested by a chiropractor I had to see on

monday after my

back went out on Sunday -- HUGE spasm -- had to wear a back brace.

She says three ribs are pulling away from my spine, so will work on

adjusting them. She

has an excellent reputation (local chiros go to her for their

treatment). But she also

suggested that if my shoulder doesn't get better by 50% in the next two

weeks, I should

see an orthopedist, and possibly consider a cortisone shot.

She had to do that many years ago herself, as she had to keep working

and couldn't take

six months off to just do the physical therapy.

Others have suggested that once they treated a viral infection their

shoulder problems

went away, but I have no idea which viruses I have, or if I have them,

although I'm

convinced I have a candida infection. I've lost weight over the years,

and have zero

appetite, so I have to take HCL and digestive enzymes, which so far

aren't much help.

ANY TIPS OR SUGGESTIONS would be VERY appreciated. Cortisone (just one

or two shots,

antivirals, probiotics, anti-candidals?

I feel like I'm falling apart, dying.

Thanks in advance,

Dan

August 9, 2006

If this was me I would stear clear of a steriod shot. I know of an

avid hiker who had knee problems and allowed a steriod injection. Her

subclinical lyme flared and she has not regained her health in two

years in spite of treatment. She has incredible nerve pain issues now

amoung other symptoms.

I would ask around for a massage therapist that knows how to work on

shoulders. I have a friend who is one. She took a specific course

for this. And she is able to unfreeze shoulders with treatment.

IMHO, I would seek a second and a third opinion before I ever had a

steriod injection.

Best,

August 9, 2006

Have you investigated myofacial release? I might work, depends on what you're

dealing with.

kgg12003 <kgenest@...> wrote: If this was me I would stear clear

of a steriod shot. I know of an

avid hiker who had knee problems and allowed a steriod injection. Her

subclinical lyme flared and she has not regained her health in two

years in spite of treatment. She has incredible nerve pain issues now

amoung other symptoms.

I would ask around for a massage therapist that knows how to work on

shoulders. I have a friend who is one. She took a specific course

for this. And she is able to unfreeze shoulders with treatment.

IMHO, I would seek a second and a third opinion before I ever had a

steriod injection.

Best,

August 9, 2006

>

> My shoulder problem continues. I'm working hard on exercises given

by the physical

> therapist, and a new one suggested by a chiropractor I had to see on

monday after my

> back went out on Sunday

***Hi Dan - If it is Frozen Shoulder that you have, then you have to be

patient. It lasts for two to three " years " . Also try not to overdue the

exercises as that will make the problem worse.

Take care.

Bernie

August 9, 2006

Dan,

I had this problem last winter. It started the end of October and

it took about 8 months to resolve. I had physical therapy and a

cortisone shot. The shot did not help at all in fact I think it

aggravated it. Gradually physical therapy, very mild exercises and lots

of rest helped. My shoulder is still sore but not to the extent that it

affects my daily activity. I sometimes think the rest was as good as the

therapy.

Good luck. One has to experience shoulder pain to appreciate how bad it

can be.

Gail

kdrbrill wrote:

>

> My shoulder problem continues. I'm working hard on exercises given by

> the physical

> therapist, and a new one suggested by a chiropractor I had to see on

> monday after my

> back went out on Sunday -- HUGE spasm -- had to wear a back brace.

>

> She says three ribs are pulling away from my spine, so will work on

> adjusting them. She

> has an excellent reputation (local chiros go to her for their

> treatment). But she also

> suggested that if my shoulder doesn't get better by 50% in the next

> two weeks, I should

> see an orthopedist, and possibly consider a cortisone shot.

>

> She had to do that many years ago herself, as she had to keep working

> and couldn't take

> six months off to just do the physical therapy.

>

> Others have suggested that once they treated a viral infection their

> shoulder problems

> went away, but I have no idea which viruses I have, or if I have them,

> although I'm

> convinced I have a candida infection. I've lost weight over the years,

> and have zero

> appetite, so I have to take HCL and digestive enzymes, which so far

> aren't much help.

>

> ANY TIPS OR SUGGESTIONS would be VERY appreciated. Cortisone (just one

> or two shots,

> antivirals, probiotics, anti-candidals?

>

> I feel like I'm falling apart, dying.

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

> Dan

>

August 9, 2006

Hi Kurt,

Thanks for your reply. I haven't been checked for lyme. Have had gradual onset

CFIDS

since 1995-1996, and no pain until the last 4 months. I live in downtown

Seattle (Capitol

Hill area) and never go camping, so hopefully lyme is not the issue. But I will

get tested,

and find out. I would think medicaid would cover that???

Thanks Kurt!

d.

>

> Dan,

> I had shoulder problems early in my case, and it was Lyme. Do you have

> Lyme? That bug seems to get into the connective tissues well. I

> believe that there is a subclinical form of Marfan also common in PWC,

> and I definitely have it. The marker I use for this is Shoemaker's

> 'wingspan' criteria. Do you have that also? That means the armspan is

> greater than your height. This may indicate a genetic connective tissue

> disorder of some sort, perhaps one that predisposes one to certain types

> of infections in those tissues. Anyway, if it is Lyme causing the

> problem, you are having a flare-up for some reason. Standard or

> alternative Lyme treatments would perhaps be helpful if this is the

> case. Also, to repair those tissues you need similar nutrients,

> collagen, eating the connective tissues of chicken, for example (if you

> are not vegan), could be helpful.

> --Kurt

>

> HELP: " Frozen shoulder " , rotator cuff:

> Cortisone???

>

> My shoulder problem continues. I'm working hard on exercises given by

> the physical

> therapist, and a new one suggested by a chiropractor I had to see on

> monday after my

> back went out on Sunday -- HUGE spasm -- had to wear a back brace.

>

> She says three ribs are pulling away from my spine, so will work on

> adjusting them. She

> has an excellent reputation (local chiros go to her for their

> treatment). But she also

> suggested that if my shoulder doesn't get better by 50% in the next two

> weeks, I should

> see an orthopedist, and possibly consider a cortisone shot.

>

> She had to do that many years ago herself, as she had to keep working

> and couldn't take

> six months off to just do the physical therapy.

>

> Others have suggested that once they treated a viral infection their

> shoulder problems

> went away, but I have no idea which viruses I have, or if I have them,

> although I'm

> convinced I have a candida infection. I've lost weight over the years,

> and have zero

> appetite, so I have to take HCL and digestive enzymes, which so far

> aren't much help.

>

> ANY TIPS OR SUGGESTIONS would be VERY appreciated. Cortisone (just one

> or two shots,

> antivirals, probiotics, anti-candidals?

>

> I feel like I'm falling apart, dying.

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

> Dan

>

August 9, 2006

Great advice -- thanks. I would definitely get massages if I could afford them,

but can't. I

do go to cheapo acupuncture once a week, and this chiro I saw charges only $30

for a

follow-up.

Interesting responses -- some people have told me that they have friends that

swear by an

occasional shot, while others have big problems. I guess the first thing to do

is find out if

I have lyme, as Kurt suggested.

THANKS!

d.

>

> If this was me I would stear clear of a steriod shot. I know of an

> avid hiker who had knee problems and allowed a steriod injection. Her

> subclinical lyme flared and she has not regained her health in two

> years in spite of treatment. She has incredible nerve pain issues now

> amoung other symptoms.

>

> I would ask around for a massage therapist that knows how to work on

> shoulders. I have a friend who is one. She took a specific course

> for this. And she is able to unfreeze shoulders with treatment.

>

> IMHO, I would seek a second and a third opinion before I ever had a

> steriod injection.

>

> Best,

>

August 10, 2006

You are probably NOT dying, Dan. Although I understand how awful you must feel.

I strongly recommend using a far-infrared lamp on your shoulder. They are So

healing, in my experience.

I can't put my hands on buying info at this moment, but I just searched, and

ebay had the best prices, it seemed. Search there or the web under; TDP Lamps.

They work like magic, have a lot of models and prices. Just be sure it is a

device witha mineral plate, not a bulb.

Best,

Adrienne

HELP: " Frozen shoulder " , rotator cuff:

Cortisone???

My shoulder problem continues. I'm working hard on exercises given by the

physical

therapist, and a new one suggested by a chiropractor I had to see on monday

after my

back went out on Sunday -- HUGE spasm -- had to wear a back brace.

She says three ribs are pulling away from my spine, so will work on adjusting

them. She

has an excellent reputation (local chiros go to her for their treatment). But

she also

suggested that if my shoulder doesn't get better by 50% in the next two weeks,

I should

see an orthopedist, and possibly consider a cortisone shot.

She had to do that many years ago herself, as she had to keep working and

couldn't take

six months off to just do the physical therapy.

Others have suggested that once they treated a viral infection their shoulder

problems

went away, but I have no idea which viruses I have, or if I have them,

although I'm

convinced I have a candida infection. I've lost weight over the years, and

have zero

appetite, so I have to take HCL and digestive enzymes, which so far aren't

much help.

ANY TIPS OR SUGGESTIONS would be VERY appreciated. Cortisone (just one or two

shots,

antivirals, probiotics, anti-candidals?

I feel like I'm falling apart, dying.

Thanks in advance,

Dan

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

August 10, 2006

Dear Dan,

I'm sorry to hear that you are in such pain. When I was hit by a motorbike a few

years ago I was

badly bruised and in incredible pain. I had a hip fracture, dislocated knee-caps

and was also left

with a lot of muscle pain, pulled ligaments and spasms.

What helped me was heat treatments and especially trigger point therapy. The

trigger point work

was done with needles. The doctor found the very painful areas and put the

needles into these.

For heat treatment the best thing was a mud wrap at a spa. I would be covered in

warm mud and then

a big heated blanket. This is expensive so I bought a heat pad that wrapped

around my shoulders

like a cape.

The needle therapy was the best through for pain and movement.

Hope this helps and you get some relief soon.

Kindest regards,

Annette

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August 10, 2006

Hi Dan, very sorry to read of your shoulder problem. I know from past

experience with capsulitis in one shoulder then, as I was trying to

save using that shoulder, I developed acute bursitis in my other

shoulder which went on to be a frozen shoulder. I was told by the

doctor that the shoulder joint is the most painful, can't remember why

but it sure was extremely painful.

Anyway I did find that acupuncture and specifically cupping helped

appreciably to regain some movement in the shoulder and ease the pain.

Cupping will sound pretty wierd. It is where they put a small peice of

lighted paper quickly into a hollow glass globe and then place the

opening of the globe over the area needing treatment. The burning

paper uses up the oxygen and I guess causes a sort of vacuum and the

flesh gets sucked in to the globe. It is left on for a short time, not

painful, actually gives relief. It seems to increase the blood flow to

the area and relief congestion, not sure what else but it really does

work. Acupuncturists use this technique and also it used to be used by

main stream medics in the west I believe in decades gone by.

Also my mother in laws gardener has had four years of shoulder

problems causing him to have to give up his work. He had been though

the usual orthodox treaments, painkillers, massage, excercises etc etc

and finally went to a very experienced Chinese medicine doctor and

acupuncutist. Before the first treatmnet he could n't cope with any

massage at all of the shoulder, it was too painful. Well he had

acupuncture and by the end of that first treatment he was able to cope

with the doctor giving him quite a vigorous massage. He has had to go

back for several follow-up treatments and has taken Chinese herbs

daily and he's also had cupping and he said his shoulder is better

than it has been for years after just a month of treatment and he

generally feels better all over.

Another thought, with the muscle spasms, are you getting enough

magnesium? Could you cope with either epsom salt baths or soaking your

feet in epsom salts as well as taking magnesium supplements?

I also found that te homeopathic remedy actea rac helped with nerve

pain in my back/shoulder.

What ever you decide to do I really hope you get some relief soon but

remember these sort of problems can take time to get completely better.

Please keep us posted as to how you are getting on.

With BW,

Sheila

>

> My shoulder problem continues. I'm working hard on exercises given

by the physical

> therapist, and a new one suggested by a chiropractor I had to see on

monday after my

> back went out on Sunday -- HUGE spasm -- had to wear a back brace.

>

> She says three ribs are pulling away from my spine, so will work on

adjusting them. She

> has an excellent reputation (local chiros go to her for their

treatment). But she also

> suggested that if my shoulder doesn't get better by 50% in the next

two weeks, I should

> see an orthopedist, and possibly consider a cortisone shot.

>

> She had to do that many years ago herself, as she had to keep

working and couldn't take

> six months off to just do the physical therapy.

>

> Others have suggested that once they treated a viral infection their

shoulder problems

> went away, but I have no idea which viruses I have, or if I have

them, although I'm

> convinced I have a candida infection. I've lost weight over the

years, and have zero

> appetite, so I have to take HCL and digestive enzymes, which so far

aren't much help.

>

> ANY TIPS OR SUGGESTIONS would be VERY appreciated. Cortisone (just

one or two shots,

> antivirals, probiotics, anti-candidals?

>

> I feel like I'm falling apart, dying.

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

> Dan

>

August 10, 2006

Dan,

If the infection is that old, a regular Western Blot test might not show

much, maybe one band positive still, or maybe none. However, you also

might learn much from a good test. Many people favor the Igenix test.

Also, a short course of targeted ABX might bring back a more full

antibody response. If you can find a doctor familiar with Lyme who

would read your clinical symptoms correctly, that might be another

possibility. Might be hard to find a LLMD in Seattle though. Also,

there is an antigen test by Bowen that probably would show positive, but

only an alternative / integrated medicine doctor would order that test

as it is controversial and not peer-reviewed, and probably not covered

by insurance (although they have applied with the FDA for regular status

for the test).

You do not have to go camping to get Lyme. I believe I contracted Lyme

from a game of Golf almost 20 years ago, where I made a few trips into

the underbrush (we won't talk about my score that day.). In my case I

did have mild symptoms quite soon, and a strange rash. But those

symptoms went away and I never suspected Lyme at the time. The shoulder

pain emerged a few years later.

--Kurt

HELP: " Frozen shoulder " , rotator cuff:

> Cortisone???

>

> My shoulder problem continues. I'm working hard on exercises given by

> the physical

> therapist, and a new one suggested by a chiropractor I had to see on

> monday after my

> back went out on Sunday -- HUGE spasm -- had to wear a back brace.

>

> She says three ribs are pulling away from my spine, so will work on

> adjusting them. She

> has an excellent reputation (local chiros go to her for their

> treatment). But she also

> suggested that if my shoulder doesn't get better by 50% in the next

two

> weeks, I should

> see an orthopedist, and possibly consider a cortisone shot.

>

> She had to do that many years ago herself, as she had to keep working

> and couldn't take

> six months off to just do the physical therapy.

>

> Others have suggested that once they treated a viral infection their

> shoulder problems

> went away, but I have no idea which viruses I have, or if I have them,

> although I'm

> convinced I have a candida infection. I've lost weight over the years,

> and have zero

> appetite, so I have to take HCL and digestive enzymes, which so far

> aren't much help.

>

> ANY TIPS OR SUGGESTIONS would be VERY appreciated. Cortisone (just one

> or two shots,

> antivirals, probiotics, anti-candidals?

>

> I feel like I'm falling apart, dying.

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

> Dan

>

August 10, 2006

Sheila and all,

Can you absorb magnesium by soaking your feet?

Adrienne

Re: HELP: " Frozen shoulder " , rotator cuff: