Re: Kathy Froese's Yasko panel and case analysis

August 3, 2006

Rich

could you review just the way you arrived at the form of B12 that

should be used.

you wrote:

The next things to do will be to build up your B12 and folate.

Because of your heavy downregulation of COMT, the form of B12 that

you should use is hydroxocobalamin.

you also wrote:

I'm not sure of the relative magnitudes of these up- and

downregulations, but I suspect that you will have a depletion of

methylcobalamin because of them.

this is still an area that i am having a little trouble understanding.

the MTR and the MTRR lead you to believe that the Methyl form of B12

should be used, but the COMT leads you to believe that the Hydroxy

B12 should be used.

why does the COMT outweigh the MTR/MTRR in terms of deciding which

form of B12 to supplement with?

thanks

bill

PS - it seems like most of the time that the Hydroxy form of B12 is

the one recommended in the Yasko protocol and then after a while

adding in some Methyl B12.

Also a very delicate combo of the different forms of Folate:

1/4 tablet of FolaPro and 1/4 tablet of Instrinsi B12 (which has a

combo of all the forms of folate, i think)

August 4, 2006

Hi, Bill.

Yes, that hasn't been very well explained, has it?

I think the key to that can be gotten by watching Prof.

Deth's talk a the Washington, D.C. DAN! conference at

http://www.danwebcast.com. As I understand what he said, the

methionine synthase enzyme molecule is very tricky. Not only can

methionine synthase reductase be used to kick it into action, there

is also a way that SAMe can do it, using a different part of the

molecule. So I think that's why you can use hydroxocobalamin, and

rely on SAMe to take care of the methylation.

From what Amy Yasko says, it's important not to have too many methyl

groups available, because that can raise the level of dopamine and

cause mood swings. So she adjusts the amount of methyl groups

available by adjusting the ratio of methylcobalamin to

hydroxocobalamin.

That's about the depth of my understanding of that at this point.

I'm hoping to get a better grasp of this as time goes on.

Yes, Amy Yasko uses a combination of the folate forms, too. Her

philosophy is to use a little bit of a lot of things rather than a

lot of one thing, to do a job. Being sort of a physicist by

background, that's a little hard for me to identify with, but I

think she wants to have all the bases covered and then let the body

do its thing. I think it must be the difference between working

with a biological system compared to working with an inanimate

system, which is what I'm more accustomed to, by background. It's a

little more like being a farmer. You give the plants all sorts of

nutrients, sunshine and water, and then you depend on the plants to

take what they need from what you've given them and do their job.

At least, that's what it seems to me that she is doing. My father

was a farmer, so I'm trying to relate back to my earlier experience!

Rich

>

> I'm not sure of the relative magnitudes of these up- and

> downregulations, but I suspect that you will have a depletion of

> methylcobalamin because of them.

>

> this is still an area that i am having a little trouble

understanding.

>

> the MTR and the MTRR lead you to believe that the Methyl form of

B12

> should be used, but the COMT leads you to believe that the Hydroxy

> B12 should be used.

>

> why does the COMT outweigh the MTR/MTRR in terms of deciding which

> form of B12 to supplement with?

>

> thanks

> bill

>

> PS - it seems like most of the time that the Hydroxy form of B12

is

> the one recommended in the Yasko protocol and then after a while

> adding in some Methyl B12.

>

> Also a very delicate combo of the different forms of Folate:

>

> 1/4 tablet of FolaPro and 1/4 tablet of Instrinsi B12 (which has a

> combo of all the forms of folate, i think)

>

August 4, 2006

>>>>Her {Yasko} philosophy is to use a little bit of a lot of things rather than

a

lot of one thing, to do a job. Being sort of a physicist by

background, that's a little hard for me to identify with,<<<<

THis is what has always worked best for me...small amounts of numerous things.

With the few medications I can tolerate, it's usually a quarter of the smallest

dose, and with various things, rotating them. I'm doing that with Klonopin and

Cortef now, in the daytime. The former for sensory overload, and the latter for

adrenal rush (to lesson it). Neither are every day, unless extreme sx.

This is against all my doctor is taught...the irregular use, and so tiny...or

optimal response in one dose...not possible!...but he gets used to my strange

reactions (pro and con)

Others work best on regular schedule.

It's absolutely definitely experimental, and always evolving.

This fits the CFIDS exquisite sensitivity thing, and we used to discuss reasons

for the need to rotate here.

Did you know Dr. Cheney is a Physicist? (degree in Physics). So he's coming at

things from all sides. It makes it really fascinating to see/hear him at work.

And to respond to what works/doesn't for me. I gathered that this makes his work

more fun for him too. The Physics.

Dr. Golstein also did the take many little things thing. After a few years, I

was thinking he might have related to my responses and vice versa. I didn't

study his work extensively.{ but I did meet him at a CFS research Conference.}

Katrina

>

> Hi, Bill.

>

> Yes, that hasn't been very well explained, has it?

>

August 4, 2006

One question I have for Deth is...he talks about the methionine

synthase activity going to ZERO in the presence of mercury toxicity.

He says that's because it's dependent on cofactors...but aren't most

enzymes dependent on cofactors, Rich?

Not questioning what he says, just don't understand it yet. I do think

he's impeccable in his research and drawing some very interesting

parallels.

In regards to Yasko: You also probably recall she uses many forms of

niacin.

I suspect this is an attempt to, still in early stages with many rate

limiting steps still not discovered, to make sure the body gets what

it needs. However, I would think one would want to add these one at a

time in case one reacted adversely.

Thanx for your fascinating analysis of ...I have decided, since

you recommend the organic acids test, to actually get it. I was

reluctant because I *KNOW* I will have metabolites of yeast and

bacteria, so I don't really need any proof of that. But perhaps it

will be useful in confirming some SNP stuff, and it's $220 which is

reasonable enough. I see my doctor next wednesday again so I'll bring

it to her then and call fedex in the morning to pick it up from her

office.

> >

> > I'm not sure of the relative magnitudes of these up- and

> > downregulations, but I suspect that you will have a depletion of

> > methylcobalamin because of them.

> >

> > this is still an area that i am having a little trouble

> understanding.

> >

> > the MTR and the MTRR lead you to believe that the Methyl form of

> B12

> > should be used, but the COMT leads you to believe that the Hydroxy

> > B12 should be used.

> >

> > why does the COMT outweigh the MTR/MTRR in terms of deciding which

> > form of B12 to supplement with?

> >

> > thanks

> > bill

> >

> > PS - it seems like most of the time that the Hydroxy form of B12

> is

> > the one recommended in the Yasko protocol and then after a while

> > adding in some Methyl B12.

> >

> > Also a very delicate combo of the different forms of Folate:

> >

> > 1/4 tablet of FolaPro and 1/4 tablet of Instrinsi B12 (which has a

> > combo of all the forms of folate, i think)

> >

>

August 4, 2006

Rich wrote:

" Yes, Amy Yasko uses a combination of the folate forms, too. Her

philosophy is to use a little bit of a lot of things rather than a

lot of one thing, to do a job. "

***Through trial and error that is just about where I have wound up, especially

with regard to brain and energy supplements. It works, crudely. I seem to have a

limit with anyone thing, which, when crossed, results in side-effects, but small

amounts of varied things give the benefit without any. As soon as I bring

something new and efficacious into the equation, I have to start readjusting

(or, sometimes eliminating, but not usually), the things that went before.

I just added relatively regular-instead of totally erratic- doses of Propax/NT

factor and zoom, my doses of neurotransmitter-balancing stuff has to go way

down.

I take occasional doses of DHEA, for example. About once every 10 days is enough

for a partial squirt under the tongue. Any more and I grow too much hair on my

face.

I have always wound up taking calcium irregularly. And now,it muscle-tested as

weakening. I often beat myself up, think I am not doing a " good job " because of

my erratic ways, but then, I also think that, intuitively, I actually know what

is good for me, and am doing a good job of keeping side-effects down by being

erratic. Crude, as I said.

After something like 20 yrs on phenylalanine it is finally almost all the way

out of my protocol. I always imagined it was burning up neurons, but I couldn't

do without it, but now I have replaced it with a gentler formulation.

Adrienne

August 4, 2006

Dr. Byron Hyde started out as a geophysicist. It's almost as if a

'classical' medical training (at least from the very start) is a

drawback in this particular field.

- Bob Niederman

On 8/4/06, kattemayo <kattemayo@...> wrote:

>

> Did you know Dr. Cheney is a Physicist? (degree in Physics). So he's coming at

things from all sides.

August 4, 2006

Are you talking about Jay Goldstein?

kattemayo <kattemayo@...> wrote: