Re: Frozen Shoulder...was prolotherapy...

July 26, 2006

Hi Bernie, I found this great site on frozen shoulders (also fibro, etc.) so I

thought i'd post

it. It kind of goes along with what my PT has been saying -- that I hold my

neck wrong,

that it's other muscles in my body (which aren't many!) that are causing the

shoulder/arm

problem...

Here's the link:

http://www.ctds.info/frozen_shoulder.html

I've also read the the trace mineral molybdenum (often used with MSM) helps with

frozen

shoulders and fibro...

d.

> >

> > My right arm and shoulder have become increasingly weak over the past

> 4 months.

> > Sometimes so bad I can hardly put on a t-shirt! Can raise my arms

> straight in front of me,

> > but not at all out to the sides (the right one anyway).

>

> ***Hi Dan - Is it possible that you have " Frozen Shoulder " ? I have had

> it for the past nine months, and for the past two and a half months I

> have had very limited movement with my right arm. My sleep is also very

> interrupted as I keep waking up because of the pain.

>

> Take care.

>

> Bernie

>

July 26, 2006

Dan,

I used to have nothing but pain in the neck/shoulder back pain. Was always at

the chrio, but could not hold the adjustment. He told me to try two tennis balls

stuck together behind my neck. I do this every nght. No more pain, no more trips

to the chiro. (Don't hold this longer than 4 minutes at a time.)

Janet

kdrbrill <kdrbrill@...> wrote:

Hi Bernie, I found this great site on frozen shoulders (also fibro,

etc.) so I thought i'd post

it. It kind of goes along with what my PT has been saying -- that I hold my neck

wrong,

that it's other muscles in my body (which aren't many!) that are causing the

shoulder/arm

problem...

Here's the link:

http://www.ctds.info/frozen_shoulder.html

I've also read the the trace mineral molybdenum (often used with MSM) helps with

frozen

shoulders and fibro...

d.

> >

> > My right arm and shoulder have become increasingly weak over the past

> 4 months.

> > Sometimes so bad I can hardly put on a t-shirt! Can raise my arms

> straight in front of me,

> > but not at all out to the sides (the right one anyway).

>

> ***Hi Dan - Is it possible that you have " Frozen Shoulder " ? I have had

> it for the past nine months, and for the past two and a half months I

> have had very limited movement with my right arm. My sleep is also very

> interrupted as I keep waking up because of the pain.

>

> Take care.

>

> Bernie

>

July 26, 2006

Interesting Janet. Do you do the exercises several times a day -- just not

longer than 4

minutes at a time?

thanks,

d.

> > >

> > > My right arm and shoulder have become increasingly weak over the past

> > 4 months.

> > > Sometimes so bad I can hardly put on a t-shirt! Can raise my arms

> > straight in front of me,

> > > but not at all out to the sides (the right one anyway).

> >

> > ***Hi Dan - Is it possible that you have " Frozen Shoulder " ? I have had

> > it for the past nine months, and for the past two and a half months I

> > have had very limited movement with my right arm. My sleep is also very

> > interrupted as I keep waking up because of the pain.

> >

> > Take care.

> >

> > Bernie

> >

>

July 26, 2006

I could never find a way to glue them together, so I just put them together,

lean back on my sofa and they hold. If they are in the right position, one

should not hold this for long.

By the way, my birthday is also 7/16!

Janet

Laurel Ley <laurel@...> wrote:

Janet --

Are the balls glued together and then put long ways along your neck? By

any chance, do you have an abnormal curvature of your neck? I have

developed this likely from an accident and was told to lie with something

rolled up behind my neck for 20 minutes a day. This sounds like a similar

thing.

Thanks,

Laurel

Re: Frozen Shoulder...was prolotherapy...

Interesting Janet. Do you do the exercises several times a day -- just not

longer than 4

minutes at a time?

thanks,

d.

> > >

> > > My right arm and shoulder have become increasingly weak over the past

> > 4 months.

> > > Sometimes so bad I can hardly put on a t-shirt! Can raise my arms

> > straight in front of me,

> > > but not at all out to the sides (the right one anyway).

> >

> > ***Hi Dan - Is it possible that you have " Frozen Shoulder " ? I have had

> > it for the past nine months, and for the past two and a half months I

> > have had very limited movement with my right arm. My sleep is also very

> > interrupted as I keep waking up because of the pain.

> >

> > Take care.

> >

> > Bernie

> >

>

July 26, 2006

Hi Janet and Laurel,

I do this, too, and the easiest way I found to do the tennis balls is in a

sock. That way you can adjust the distance that's comfortable for you. Just

put them in and tye it off.

Laurel Ley <laurel@...> wrote:

Janet --

Are the balls glued together and then put long ways along your neck? By

any chance, do you have an abnormal curvature of your neck? I have

developed this likely from an accident and was told to lie with something

rolled up behind my neck for 20 minutes a day. This sounds like a similar

thing.

Thanks,

Laurel

Re: Frozen Shoulder...was prolotherapy...

Interesting Janet. Do you do the exercises several times a day -- just not

longer than 4

minutes at a time?

thanks,

d.

> > >

> > > My right arm and shoulder have become increasingly weak over the past

> > 4 months.

> > > Sometimes so bad I can hardly put on a t-shirt! Can raise my arms

> > straight in front of me,

> > > but not at all out to the sides (the right one anyway).

> >

> > ***Hi Dan - Is it possible that you have " Frozen Shoulder " ? I have had

> > it for the past nine months, and for the past two and a half months I

> > have had very limited movement with my right arm. My sleep is also very

> > interrupted as I keep waking up because of the pain.

> >

> > Take care.

> >

> > Bernie

> >

>

July 26, 2006

Thanks Janet. Like I said, my PT believes it's all due to the way I hold my

neck --

slouching forward, sticking it out, instead of holding it back, like my head is

being held up

by a thread.

Still, I put in a call this morning to find out if it may be a rotator cuff-type

injury too.

Because I'm so weak, it could have happened while I was sleeping?

d.

> > > >

> > > > My right arm and shoulder have become increasingly weak over the past

> > > 4 months.

> > > > Sometimes so bad I can hardly put on a t-shirt! Can raise my arms

> > > straight in front of me,

> > > > but not at all out to the sides (the right one anyway).

> > >

> > > ***Hi Dan - Is it possible that you have " Frozen Shoulder " ? I have had

> > > it for the past nine months, and for the past two and a half months I

> > > have had very limited movement with my right arm. My sleep is also very

> > > interrupted as I keep waking up because of the pain.

> > >

> > > Take care.

> > >

> > > Bernie

> > >

> >

July 26, 2006

I am sure you are holding your neck incorrectly, Dan, but I find it hard to

believe that that could cause you as much grief as you are having.

Adrienne

Re: Frozen Shoulder...was prolotherapy...

Thanks Janet. Like I said, my PT believes it's all due to the way I hold my

neck --

slouching forward, sticking it out, instead of holding it back, like my head

is being held up

by a thread.

Still, I put in a call this morning to find out if it may be a rotator

cuff-type injury too.

Because I'm so weak, it could have happened while I was sleeping?

d.

> > > >

> > > > My right arm and shoulder have become increasingly weak over the past

> > > 4 months.

> > > > Sometimes so bad I can hardly put on a t-shirt! Can raise my arms

> > > straight in front of me,

> > > > but not at all out to the sides (the right one anyway).

> > >

> > > ***Hi Dan - Is it possible that you have " Frozen Shoulder " ? I have had

> > > it for the past nine months, and for the past two and a half months I

> > > have had very limited movement with my right arm. My sleep is also very

> > > interrupted as I keep waking up because of the pain.

> > >

> > > Take care.

> > >

> > > Bernie

> > >

> >

July 26, 2006

Dan --

Have you had any x-rays taken of your neck? I was in a car accident (about

2 years before I got ill) and from that must have weakened the ligaments in

the neck. So, it essentially bent the wrong way. Seeing the x-rays are

kind of scary. I'm getting bone spurs in the neck spine. Yoga seems to

help. Plus a similar exercise to what Janet is talking about. I don't

quite get frozen shoulders but across my back at the shoulder level is

excessively tight. And I am in a fair amount of pain often in that area of

my back.

Part of the reason the yoga really helps is because it builds abdominal

strength, which helps us keep our bodies erect. Which of course leads to

better posture.

Best regards,

Laurel

Re: Re: Frozen Shoulder...was prolotherapy...

I am sure you are holding your neck incorrectly, Dan, but I find it hard to

believe that that could cause you as much grief as you are having.

Adrienne

Re: Frozen Shoulder...was prolotherapy...

Thanks Janet. Like I said, my PT believes it's all due to the way I hold my

neck --

slouching forward, sticking it out, instead of holding it back, like my head

is being held up

by a thread.

Still, I put in a call this morning to find out if it may be a rotator

cuff-type injury too.

Because I'm so weak, it could have happened while I was sleeping?

d.

> > > >

> > > > My right arm and shoulder have become increasingly weak over the

past

> > > 4 months.

> > > > Sometimes so bad I can hardly put on a t-shirt! Can raise my arms

> > > straight in front of me,

> > > > but not at all out to the sides (the right one anyway).

> > >

> > > ***Hi Dan - Is it possible that you have " Frozen Shoulder " ? I have had

> > > it for the past nine months, and for the past two and a half months I

> > > have had very limited movement with my right arm. My sleep is also

very

> > > interrupted as I keep waking up because of the pain.

> > >

> > > Take care.

> > >

> > > Bernie

> > >

> >

July 26, 2006

I finally spoke with the PT this afternoon, and she reminded me, that when I've

been there,

and hold my neck and head in the " correct " position, my arm strengthen went way

up.

After slouching for 40+ years, it's hard to change, so when I do the neck

exercises, then

my spine hurts! She said that is a temporary, but good thing -- that's the way

the neck

muscles will strengthen -- suposedly.

So I have an appt next Wednesday, and they'll check my shoulder again to make

sure it

hasn't gotten worse.

I agree with your concern, esp after never having problems until 4 months ago,

but she

didn't seem worried enough to get me in there today.

Thanks,

d.

> > > > >

> > > > > My right arm and shoulder have become increasingly weak over the

past

> > > > 4 months.

> > > > > Sometimes so bad I can hardly put on a t-shirt! Can raise my arms

> > > > straight in front of me,

> > > > > but not at all out to the sides (the right one anyway).

> > > >

> > > > ***Hi Dan - Is it possible that you have " Frozen Shoulder " ? I have had

> > > > it for the past nine months, and for the past two and a half months I

> > > > have had very limited movement with my right arm. My sleep is also

very

> > > > interrupted as I keep waking up because of the pain.

> > > >

> > > > Take care.

> > > >

> > > > Bernie

> > > >

> > >

July 26, 2006

I had an MRI a year ago February, when they found a benign tumor on my pituitary

gland

(pressing against my optic nerve). Not sure if they could see the neck, but

after the

surgery he said my grey matter all looked fine -- no plaques or anything.

The PT has said however that the neck muscles need to be strengthened and then

supposedly my arm will strengthen as well.

Re your bone spurs: This is controversial, so don't take my word, but after a

lot of

reading, I've concluded that although some say they're due to not enough

magnesium, if

you do a google search, you'll find others saying that it's a lack of calcium.

The spurs

form as the body's way to try and strengthen or support the spine. I had a spur

forming in

my hand, and have been taking and eating more calcium -- the spur is almost gone

-- but

then again, my shoulder and arm problems are worse than four months ago.

Vitamin K is

also touted for getting rid of bone spurs....

thanks for your reply,

d.

> > > > >

> > > > > My right arm and shoulder have become increasingly weak over the

> past

> > > > 4 months.

> > > > > Sometimes so bad I can hardly put on a t-shirt! Can raise my arms

> > > > straight in front of me,

> > > > > but not at all out to the sides (the right one anyway).

> > > >

> > > > ***Hi Dan - Is it possible that you have " Frozen Shoulder " ? I have had

>

> > > > it for the past nine months, and for the past two and a half months I

> > > > have had very limited movement with my right arm. My sleep is also

> very

> > > > interrupted as I keep waking up because of the pain.

> > > >

> > > > Take care.

> > > >

> > > > Bernie

> > > >

> > >

July 26, 2006

Thanks Dan.

How much calcium and magnesium. I take about 1200mg calcium daily which

has magnesium with it. What about vitamin K?

Apparently with relation to the neck, the spurs are trying to stabilize the

neck and protect the nerves from being impinged upon.

AHH -- pituitary tumors. Just found one myself, 1cm. 24% of the

population have pituitary tumors. More often than not, they find them

Pituitary tumors (www.pituitary.org) are almost always non-cancerous. There

are, however, a few different types. Mine like yours is near my optic

nerve. But yours was obviously impinging on the optical nerve, mine isn't.

Unlikely they would have seen the neck via a MRI for the pituitary tumor.

The most telling view was from the side. Where you see that literally my

neck curves opposite of the way it's supposed to. Apparently the neck

curves in such a fashion to hold the head in position where the weight is

best carried. My curve of the neck puts my head in a position that it takes

more effort to hold up and your body throws itself out of whack to help this

process.

I don't know if you're up for yoga but there's a very light tape called AM

Yoga with Rodney Yee. When I first started it, I could only do five

minutes. Worked my way up to the full 20 minutes. I'm sure your neck

muscles strengthening will help your shoulders but a lot of why our postures

are so bad is that we don't have enough upper body strength. A key factor

in upper body strength is strong abdominals to hold the upper body up.

I've had a few bouts of extensive PT due to car accidents (people ran in to

me, like running through a stop sign). Hence, I learned all of this from

working with PTs and private trainers. The yoga will help posture which

will help everything else. The best for building abs are crunches or

laying down leg lifts. But of course, those can take a lot of energy. But

it's also something which can be built up to.

So here I am writing -- and now I am going to have to put my words to

practice as I have gotten out of the habit of these things.

I'd be appreciative if you have info on how much calcium and/or magnesium.

And vitamin K.

Thanks and best regards,

Laurel

Re: Frozen Shoulder...was prolotherapy...

I had an MRI a year ago February, when they found a benign tumor on my

pituitary gland

(pressing against my optic nerve). Not sure if they could see the neck, but

after the

surgery he said my grey matter all looked fine -- no plaques or anything.

The PT has said however that the neck muscles need to be strengthened and

then

supposedly my arm will strengthen as well.

Re your bone spurs: This is controversial, so don't take my word, but after

a lot of

reading, I've concluded that although some say they're due to not enough

magnesium, if

you do a google search, you'll find others saying that it's a lack of

calcium. The spurs

form as the body's way to try and strengthen or support the spine. I had a

spur forming in

my hand, and have been taking and eating more calcium -- the spur is almost

gone -- but

then again, my shoulder and arm problems are worse than four months ago.

Vitamin K is

also touted for getting rid of bone spurs....

thanks for your reply,

d.

> > > > >

> > > > > My right arm and shoulder have become increasingly weak over the

> past

> > > > 4 months.

> > > > > Sometimes so bad I can hardly put on a t-shirt! Can raise my arms

> > > > straight in front of me,

> > > > > but not at all out to the sides (the right one anyway).

> > > >

> > > > ***Hi Dan - Is it possible that you have " Frozen Shoulder " ? I have

had

>

> > > > it for the past nine months, and for the past two and a half months

I

> > > > have had very limited movement with my right arm. My sleep is also

> very

> > > > interrupted as I keep waking up because of the pain.

> > > >

> > > > Take care.

> > > >

> > > > Bernie

> > > >

> > >

July 26, 2006

A few years before I crashed with CFS I ended up with a frozen left

shoulder. I went to a chiropracter who had such a hard time working

on me he speculated that I had Fibromyalgia. But he did manage to fix

the shoulder. I had lost most of my mobility and it became normal

again with the treatments.

He made a big deal about one of my legs being shorter than the other

(out of alignment). He used an activator on my spine but had to hold

his hand in between the activator and my skin in order for me to be

able to stand it.

I received my first diagnosis of CFS from another doctor shortly after

that, but the shoulder didn't bother me again until I took quinolones

10 years later.

Lynn

July 26, 2006

Thanks EDY on the sock suggestion. Great idea.

Funny on 7/16 Janet. I'll run this by my chiropractor. It's a wonderful

idea that I bet many people can benefit from.

Best regards,

Laurel

Re: Frozen Shoulder...was prolotherapy...

Interesting Janet. Do you do the exercises several times a day -- just not

longer than 4

minutes at a time?

thanks,

d.

> > >

> > > My right arm and shoulder have become increasingly weak over the past

> > 4 months.

> > > Sometimes so bad I can hardly put on a t-shirt! Can raise my arms

> > straight in front of me,

> > > but not at all out to the sides (the right one anyway).

> >

> > ***Hi Dan - Is it possible that you have " Frozen Shoulder " ? I have had

> > it for the past nine months, and for the past two and a half months I

> > have had very limited movement with my right arm. My sleep is also very

> > interrupted as I keep waking up because of the pain.

> >

> > Take care.

> >

> > Bernie

> >

>

July 26, 2006

----- Original Message -----

From: kdrbrill

I had an MRI a year ago February, when they found a benign tumor on my

pituitary gland

(pressing against my optic nerve).

***Did you have an endocrinological follow-up on that? Benign just means not

malignant, doesn't really mean entirely benign, I don't think.

***My kid brother had a " begnign " tumor on a testicle. Caused him to reach

puberty at age 7!!

Adrienne

July 26, 2006

Suspect an imbalance and deficiency of Magnesium

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

the spur is almost

gone -- but

then again, my shoulder and arm problems are worse than four months ago.

Vitamin K is

also touted for getting rid of bone spurs....

thanks for your reply,

d.

July 27, 2006

Hi all

I also have this problem. It is more apparent for the last two years. It is

on left side. My left shoulder has also moved forward. Even when lying down

it is more upwards than my right shoulder.Actually my whole left side has

pain including my chest.I was thinking that there was a general problem on

my left side muscles being tighter than normal.It started about 7 or 8 years

ago with some pain on my left chest and shoulder area and as time passed my

shoulder stiffness increased. I found following link for some exercise

descriptions.

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/fact/thr_report.cfm?Thread_ID=162 & topcategory=Shoulder

best wishes.

Nil

Re: Frozen Shoulder...was prolotherapy...

> Suspect an imbalance and deficiency of Magnesium

>

> mjh

> " The Basil Book "

> _http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

>

> the spur is almost

> gone -- but

> then again, my shoulder and arm problems are worse than four months ago.

> Vitamin K is

> also touted for getting rid of bone spurs....

>

> thanks for your reply,

>

> d.

>

July 28, 2006

Dan

I have suffered torn rotator cuffs several times, they healed but it

took time. One Tx used was ultrasound set at the very lowest level

and for a very short period of time, anything stronger would make

matters worse.

I have cervical spine issues too. The posture your PT pointed out

tends to be the first thing PTs look for.

Though Perrin;s work is not popular with some PWME in the UK

he has come up with some interesting observations which connect the

spine and lymphatic drainage. One of the issues he has picked up on

is the same bad posture. I have not tried the Perrin technique.

Finally being given the right PT for my cervical spine issues,

alongside other measures, seems to have assisted my lymphatic

drainage.

I know this is painful and frustrating so I hope it soon resolves. In

my case it took time but there have been no recurrences in recent

years.

TC, Tansy

>

> I finally spoke with the PT this afternoon, and she reminded me,

that when I've been there,

> and hold my neck and head in the " correct " position, my arm

strengthen went way up.

> After slouching for 40+ years, it's hard to change, so when I do

the neck exercises, then

> my spine hurts! She said that is a temporary, but good thing --

that's the way the neck

> muscles will strengthen -- suposedly.

>

> So I have an appt next Wednesday, and they'll check my shoulder

again to make sure it

> hasn't gotten worse.

>

> I agree with your concern, esp after never having problems until 4

months ago, but she

> didn't seem worried enough to get me in there today.

>

> Thanks,

>

> d.

>

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