Re: Central Fatigue

[Guest guest]

Tryptophan; not okay in the morning, when trying to get cranking; excellent in

the evening when needing to unwind. Best at bedtime, actually.

Once in a while, when I have taken too much energy -making stuff and feel wired,

am spinning my wheels, I take trypto in the afternoon. It's a helluva way to

live but best I know of right now.

Adrienne

Central Fatigue

Whilst studying human anatomy and physiology, I came across a type of

fatigue called 'Central Fatigue' that sounds remarkably similar to

CFS. It seems L-tryptophan might not be our friend:

Central Fatigue

In addition to focusing on the causes of muscle fatigue, recent

research has also centered on mental fatigue during exercise. This is

commonly called central fatigue because it results from impaired

function of the central nervous system. Although central fatigue does

not affect your muscles directly, it can reduce your capacity to perform.

Dr. Newsholme of Oxford University has uncovered a correlation

between levels of the amino acid tryptophan in the brain and the

degree of mental fatigue. When tryptophan enters the brain, it can

depress the central nervous system, causing sleepiness and fatigue.

Normally, there are sufficient amounts of the branched chain amino

acids (BCAAs) leucine, isolucine and valine in the blood to regulate

the entry of tryptophan into the brain. Supplementation of BCAAs

before and during exercise has been proven to increase performance

during a soccer game and after a 30- kilometer race. Likewise, in a

study of 193 marathoners, branched-chain amino acid supplementation

improved performance in the slower runners. Additional research is

being conducted in this area.

http://www.thescienceoffitness.com/index_wall.html

Katrina.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Does anyone get sleepy just eating turkey - a good source of tryptophan?

a

Tryptophan; not okay in the morning, when trying to get cranking; excellent

in the evening when needing to unwind. Best at bedtime, actually.

Once in a while, when I have taken too much energy -making stuff and feel

wired, am spinning my wheels, I take trypto in the afternoon. It's a helluva

way to live but best I know of right now.

Adrienne

[Guest guest]

Hi a. Sometimes. Not always. No consistency (which is odd to

me).

in Champaign IL

>

> Does anyone get sleepy just eating turkey - a good source of

tryptophan?

>

>

> a

>

[Guest guest]

I used to eat lots of turkey when they first banned trypto. It definitely

worked. I got really sick of it. I am careful to eat it now only when I won't

mind the effect.

Adrienne

Re: Central Fatigue

Does anyone get sleepy just eating turkey - a good source of tryptophan?

a

Tryptophan; not okay in the morning, when trying to get cranking; excellent

in the evening when needing to unwind. Best at bedtime, actually.

Once in a while, when I have taken too much energy -making stuff and feel

wired, am spinning my wheels, I take trypto in the afternoon. It's a helluva

way to live but best I know of right now.

Adrienne

[Guest guest]

Not so odd, . Could easily be enhanced -the effect, ie- by having carbs

with it.(Thanksgiving, anybody? ZZZZZ)

With other proteins, effect would be diminished.

Adrienne

Re: Central Fatigue

Hi a. Sometimes. Not always. No consistency (which is odd to

me).

in Champaign IL

>

> Does anyone get sleepy just eating turkey - a good source of

tryptophan?

>

>

> a

>

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Yes, that makes sense to me. Thanks, Adrienne. The times I think of

it being less dependable for making me sleepy are coincident with time

since I whacked carbs from diet, increased protein, and started

treating " bugs. " In fact, the night I wrote that, I'd had turkey to

eat and was wide awake afterward for hours (and hours and hours

and...).

Why do carbs enhance this " get the sleepies " effect? Is there a

particular kind of carb that works better than others? Is this

something I should just search the archives for?

Thanks, Adrienne. Always learning here.

>

> Not so odd, . Could easily be enhanced -the effect, ie- by

having carbs with it.(Thanksgiving, anybody? ZZZZZ)

> With other proteins, effect would be diminished.

> Adrienne

>

> Hi a. Sometimes. Not always. No consistency (which is odd

to me). in Champaign IL

[Guest guest]

asked me;

" Why do carbs enhance this " get the sleepies " effect? Is there a

particular kind of carb that works better than others? Is this

something I should just search the archives for? "

I am not knowlegeable enough to answer this, really, but maybe it is just a

combined effect. Carbs quickly lower my blood sugars, (after raising them first,

of course), and that alone makes me drowsy and foggy. I sincerely doubt the

type of carb matters much. Sugar will work faster than any others. If turkey

works for you, maybe tryptophan will too.

The model of carbs plus trypto is-milk and cookies.

Adrienne

[Guest guest]

Central Fatigue

http://www.phoenix-cfs.org/Central%20Fatigue%20CFS.htm

" Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@...> wrote:

asked me;

" Why do carbs enhance this " get the sleepies " effect? Is there a

particular kind of carb that works better than others? Is this

something I should just search the archives for? "

I am not knowlegeable enough to answer this, really, but maybe it is just a

combined effect. Carbs quickly lower my blood sugars, (after raising them first,

of course), and that alone makes me drowsy and foggy. I sincerely doubt the type

of carb matters much. Sugar will work faster than any others. If turkey works

for you, maybe tryptophan will too.

The model of carbs plus trypto is-milk and cookies.

Adrienne

[Guest guest]

In response to the q about why carbs make one sleepy, here are a few bits of

info -

After reading a very interesting paper by a guy named Poffenbarger sp? ... on

diabetic syndromes, hypoglycemia; etc., I found out some neat stuff. Firstly,

so-called hypoglycemia is not really considered to be the problem re: drowsiness

after food. Instead this Poffenbarger character has dubbed the condition(s) as

Post prandial syndromes (#1-4). In brief, when one eats a high carb food, it

will be the case that one has eaten a food that has a high glycemic index. This

Glycemic Index (GI) refers to the amount of INSULIN releaased by the body in

response to a particular food--which is indeed related to how much the food

first raises and then lowers the blood sugar. insulin is what does the job of

lowering raised gllucose levels.

Foods high on the GI (where 100=refined sugar), will tend to lead to a

pronounced insulin release. Itis actually the insulin and not the low blood

sugar per se, that creates the post prandial drowsiness. Apparently, insulin

has a propensity for " non enzymatically " denaturing one's own amino acid

populations. The insulin somehow binds to the protein or amino acid and

denatures it in such a way that it renders the AA unable to remain in the blood

plasma circulation. It goes into the serum instead where it can do no good. AS

it turns out, insulin is capable of denaturin and thus kicking out all the AAs

from the systemic circulation...which finds its way into the brain where

possible. E.g., tyrosine uses a transporter to get across the BBB, but it

competes with tryptophan for the same transporter. tyrosine converts to

dopamine. tryp to serotonin (5HT).

iNSulin has the peculiar propensity to denature all aminos excpt tryp =

tryptophan is the only one left in circulation. So tryptophan has n competition

at the tyr-tryp. It wins in this circumtance and actually becomes the only AA

which crosses the blood brain barrier. Since the rest of the aa's have no way

to enter the brain due to their being stuck in the serum portion . So all AAs

leave plasma but tryptophan which then has exclusive access to the brain. It

turns into serotonin--unopposed by the likes of dopamine and excitatory aminos

like glutamate, aspartate.

This hyper serotoninism is usually characteriz by sleepiness but also by other

hyperserotonergic effects called high sympathetic outflow states. things like

heart palpitations, flushing, grumpiness, shakiness/tremor and mood 'lability'.

So it is notthe hypoglycemia itself that is the problem: the insulin induced

tryptophan 'takeover' is responsible. So, we experience things llike I just

mentioned plus a whole host of other stuff. Like your brain doesn't work! This

is officially termed... HYPOAMINOACIDEMIA which suggests that the real problem

in post prandialsyndromes is the lack of amino acids tocounterbalance trypophan.

some people are best served by eating just two meals per day (large ones)

whereas others do better witha grazing approach.

Short term use of ritalin or dexedrine has apparently 'saved many a marriage'

due to its acting as a false dopamind signaler... which poffenbarger prescribes

for a bit whilst the patient gets their diet under appropriate control.

the answer is of course to eat food low on the glycemic index. incidentaly,

xylitol and erythrytol and stevia are all nearly zero on the glycemic index yet

they aresweet and have totally replaced all sugars inmy diet (to the extent

possible) fructose is apparently worse than glucose in that it is a

disacharride. for me stevia and sylitol (a sugar alcohol) are the greatest

thing since sliced bread! I can actually sweeten stuff again. if anything I

think the zylitol and stevia are mildly anabolic and yes bacteriostatic.

so that's the basic jist of it. I'll try and bemore clear later on if someone

wishes me to. but I must goand crash now somehow.

tryptophan is sold in canadian pharmacies for mainly the treatment of refractory

caseesof bipolar disorder. up to 12 g per day! that would make me zombified!

nite nite.

Hud

" Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@...> wrote:

asked me;

" Why do carbs enhance this " get the sleepies " effect? Is there a

particular kind of carb that works better than others? Is this

something I should just search the archives for? "

I am not knowlegeable enough to answer this, really, but maybe it is just a

combined effect. Carbs quickly lower my blood sugars, (after raising them first,

of course), and that alone makes me drowsy and foggy. I sincerely doubt the type

of carb matters much. Sugar will work faster than any others. If turkey works

for you, maybe tryptophan will too.

The model of carbs plus trypto is-milk and cookies.

Adrienne

--

Hud J Oetoyo

Re: Re: Central Fatigue

[Guest guest]

Hi, Hud.

Welcome back to the group! It's been quite a few years since I've

seen those stimulating posts from you here! It's good to hear from

you again.

I think this stuff from Poffenbarger is really interesting, too.

Would you mind posting the reference to his paper on this subject?

I haven't been able to track it down, and I think it would fill in a

hole in my hypothesis about the pathogenesis of CFS.

Thanks in advance.

Rich

>

> In response to the q about why carbs make one sleepy, here are a

few bits of info -

>

> After reading a very interesting paper by a guy named Poffenbarger

sp? ... on diabetic syndromes, hypoglycemia; etc., I found out some

neat stuff.

[Guest guest]

Hud: Thank you for such a wonderful explanation.

Re: Re: Central Fatigue