Re: Rich!!!

[Guest guest]

I will try to comprehend all that you have put forth...you don't know how

much I trust you compared with these MDs..I have encountered..I am a licensed

mental health therapist, and I know there are no guarantees on life..no need to

worry about me.

I have considered that there may be lung issues, but I do live at 8900 ft

altitude in the Rocky Mountains..there is a respiratory therapist who is urging

me to find residence at almost sea level..although I have had shortness of

breath for a long time, I have not had these more serious oxygen needs until

that October, 2005 incident..

They want me to do a sleep study, too, to see if I have sleep apnea..as well.

I do seem to have a empathetic cardiologist, although, she does not

understand CFS/ME cardiac issues..I was planning to get together as much info,

as

possible, to see if that could influence her to be open about this..do I need

her to order these tests you indicated?

I have asked the respiratory therapist, and he indicated there are usually

cardioimpedance machines in the hospital (he worked in the cardiac unit at

one time), Would there be a G.E.Vivid 7 Echocardiograph in a hospital..I do

have access to very low cost hospital services, if needed..

..

Do they need to follow Cheney's protocol??

Thanks so much for your knowledgable and kind response...

Amelia

[Guest guest]

Hi, Amelia.

I'm very sorry about the difficulties you are having with your heart.

I'll give you some comments, as you've asked, but I think I should

make a few things clear up front:

1. As you may know, I'm a researcher, not a physician, and I don't

have a license to practice medicine.

2. I haven't received any formal training in cardiology and don't

know very much about it.

3. All I know about your case is what you have reported in a few

posts to this group.

4. Here in California, it's illegal for an unlicensed provider of

alternative or complementary healthcare services to " willfully

diagnose or treat a physical or mental condition of any person under

circumstances or conditions that cause or create a risk of great

bodily harm, serious physical or mental illness, or death. "

5. From what you described in message number 91704, I would say

that you have some serious cardiac issues that could be construed as

bringing your case under the clause quoted in 4. above.

6. In view of this, I want to make it clear that my comments do not

constitute diagnosis or treatment of your condition, and I urge you

to seek the assistance of a qualified, licensed cardiologist. Also,

at the end of this message I am attaching my disclosure statement,

which is required by law in California, and I would appreciate it if

you would read it and write back that you have read it.

Now, I hope that will keep me out of jail, as well as hopefully

nudging you toward someone who can really help you.

Those things having been said, based on what you have reported to

the list, particularly in messages 91704, 102245, 102263, 102269,

and 102270, I think that you very likely have low cardiac output.

You mentioned that you were diagnosed with left ventricular

diastolic dysfunction (yes, that means restrictive heart

failure), " decrease in ejection fraction, increased chamber size,

ischemia in anterior, etc. " (these sound more like one of the other

types of heart failure, and I don't know what the " etc. " is. ). You

mentioned that you almost fainted on the treadmill (that's pretty

good evidence for low cardiac output). You also mentioned that your

heart valves looked O.K. to the second cardiologist during the

catheterization, so presumably you don't have a valve problem. You

mentioned that you have had high blood pressure and a high heart

rate. I suspect that your sympathetic nervous system is raising

your blood pressure and heart rate in an effort to compensate for

the low cardiac output.

I think it's possible that you have more than one thing going on

with your heart, and that that's why the first cardiologist wasn't

able to make sense out of the stress echocardiogram. Perhaps you

have both diastolic dysfunction (maybe from glutathione depletion in

your heart muscle cells) and a weakening of the muscle of your left

ventricle (perhaps from a viral infection in the muscle, as Dr.

Lerner finds, or from atherosclerosis in the arteries serving the

heart muscle, since the first cardiologist diagnosed ischemia.

You also mentioned that you are now on oxygen because you had a low

arterial oxygen percent saturation as measured by pulse oximeter.

The most common reasons for low oxygen saturation are that the

person is not breathing enough (rate and/or depth of breathing), or

there is a problem with the lungs that prevents enough oxygen from

passing from the lungs into the blood. So your lungs may have

issues, too.

This is not really great news, but I suspect it isn't all that

surprising to you, since it sounds as though you have been living

with these heart problems for a while and you seem to understand

what's going on.

You mentioned that you don't have health insurance, and that does

tend to limit one's options.

As you know, I've been promoting the notion that diastolic

dysfunction in CFS results from glutathione depletion in the heart

muscle, and that the systemic glutathione status is held down by a

vicious circle that is tied up with the methylation cycle and the

polymorphisms in enzymes there. If you had only diastolic

dysfunction, if you had time and the money, I would suggest trying

to track down these polymorphisms with Amy Yasko's panel, and then

supplementing to bypass them so that the glutathione could come back

up. However, it seems as though you have other issues as well,

including something else going on in your heart, and something in

addition involving your lungs, so that muddies the waters. In

addition, I suspect that time is of the essence in your case, in

view of all the things you reported, so waiting a couple of months

for test results may not be a practical idea. If you have the

resources, you could try a shotgun approach, using Amy Yasko's whole

armamentarium (http://www.holisticheal.com), and hoping it would

bring your methylation cycle and your glutathione back up. That

would be kind of a shot in the dark, though. And it still wouldn't

deal with the other issues.

Or you could try seeing another cardiologist, as I mentioned

earlier, if you could figure out how to pay for it. If you were

going to do that, I would suggest calling Cardiodynamics in San

Diego at 1-800-778-4825, punch zero, and ask the operator who in

your city has one of their impedance cardiographs. She will give

you names, addresses and phone numbers. Then call General Electric

Healthcare at 1-800-682-5327, choose ultrasound and Vivid 7, and ask

them to let you put a message on the voicemail for their sales rep

in your area. He/she will call you, though it might take a few

days. Ask the rep who in your area has a G.E. Vivid 7

Echocardiograph. You might try asking if the ones who have the

Cardiodynamics machine also have the Vivid 7 machine. If you find a

clinic that has both, that would be a good place to try to go,

because it means that they are up on the technology and have the

newer machines.

I guess that's about all I have to suggest. I wish I could wave a

magic wand for you, but I don't have one. I will pray for you, and

I hope some of this is helpful.

Here's my disclosure statement:

page 1 of 2

April 17, 2006

DISCLOSURE STATEMENT

On January 1, 2003, a law became effective in the state

of California pertaining to the provision of complementary and

alternative health care services by non-licensed practitioners.

I do not regard myself nor advertise myself as a practitioner, but I

do frequently give suggestions to individuals about complementary

and alternative health care, primarily via the internet. Since I do

reside in California, and am not a licensed healthcare provider, I

want to make sure that I am operating within the spirit of this new

law. I am therefore providing the following information required by

the law:

1. I am not a licensed physician.

2. The advice and suggestions I give are alternative or

complementary to healing arts services licensed by the state of

California.

3. The services I provide are analyses of cases of chronic

syndromes and diseases, particularly chronic fatigue syndrome and

related disorders, and suggestions for treatment.

4. The theory of treatment upon which these services are based is

that it is possible to understand the root causes and disease

processes of chronic syndromes and diseases by the use of

biochemistry and physiology, and to treat them by means that are

primarily orthomolecular, functional, holistic, naturopathic,

alternative, or complementary. In addition to my own research, I

also make use of insights gained from specialists in treating these

disorders and from published research.

5. I have B.S., M.S., and Ph.D. degrees in Engineering and Applied

Science from the University of California--. I worked for

about 30 years doing research and development in chemistry, physics,

materials science and engineering. I have no formal training in the

biological sciences or health-related fields. Since 1996 I have

been performing independent study of chronic fatigue syndrome and

related disorders. I am a member of the International Association

for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and the Society for Orthomolecular

Health-Medicine and am a subscriber to the Journal of Chronic

Fatigue Syndrome. I have attended six professional conferences

specifically devoted to chronic fatigue syndrome as of this date,

including two workshops sponsored by the National Institutes of

Health, as well as several other medical conferences. I wrote the

chapter on nutrition for the Handbook of Chronic Fatigue

page 2 of 2

Syndrome (2003) and presented a poster paper on glutathione at the

2004 meeting of the American Association for Chronic Fatigue

Syndrome.

The law requires that written acknowledgment be obtained from anyone

to whom these health care services are provided that he or she has

been given the above information. Accordingly, I ask that

anyone who desires advice about a particular case to please

acknowledge that you have read the above by signing below and

mailing the signed copy to me at the address below. Thank you.

Rich Van Konynenburg, Ph.D.

444 Ontario Drive

Livermore, CA 94550

I have read and I understand this disclosure statement.

Signed: ___________________________________ Date:

_______________________

Rich

>

> Can I, please get your evaluation on my problem????

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Amelia.

>

> I will try to comprehend all that you have put forth...you don't

know how

> much I trust you compared with these MDs..I have encountered..I am

a licensed

> mental health therapist, and I know there are no guarantees on

life..no need to

> worry about me.

***O.K. No guarantees on life. That's for sure.

>

> I have considered that there may be lung issues, but I do live at

8900 ft

> altitude in the Rocky Mountains..there is a respiratory therapist

who is urging

> me to find residence at almost sea level..although I have had

shortness of

> breath for a long time, I have not had these more serious oxygen

needs until

> that October, 2005 incident..

***That's pretty high, alright. It would be easier to get oxygen at

sea level, for sure.

>

> They want me to do a sleep study, too, to see if I have sleep

apnea..as well.

***I turned out to have that, and I sure appreciate my CPAP

machine. Now I have one that automatically adjusts the pressure,

and I like it better than my fixed-pressure model. (I'm keeping a

spare now, because somebody stole my old one out of my car, and I

really don't like sleeping without one.)

>

> I do seem to have a empathetic cardiologist, although, she does

not

> understand CFS/ME cardiac issues..I was planning to get together

as much info, as

> possible, to see if that could influence her to be open about

this..do I need

> her to order these tests you indicated?

***You don't need a doctor's order for the Yasko genetics panel.

You can prepare the samples yourself at home (mouth swabs and skin

prick blood spot samples). For the impedance cardiography and the

vivid 7 echocardiography, I think a doctor would have to approve

them.

>

> I have asked the respiratory therapist, and he indicated there

are usually

> cardioimpedance machines in the hospital (he worked in the cardiac

unit at

> one time), Would there be a G.E.Vivid 7 Echocardiograph in a

hospital..I do

> have access to very low cost hospital services, if needed..

***Some hospitals do have them. I just located a hospital in Fort

Worth, Texas, for someone, that has both machines (Plaza Medical

Center).

> .

> Do they need to follow Cheney's protocol??

***The important thing is to do the impedance cardiography lying

down (supine), and then either sitting and standing or tilted nearly

upright if they have a tilt table.

>

> Thanks so much for your knowledgable and kind response...

***You're welcome.

>

> Amelia

***Rich

[Guest guest]

....As much info as possible... may not be the best way to gain her cooperation.

It may literally be too much info. Better to offer the most focused, critical

stuff. If she sees you understand something of what you are talking about she

may accept some verbal summarization of some of it- and may just ASK to see

more.

As my secondary care provider- my MD, (who comes after my chiropractor in

effectiveness), learned by seeing me report improvement, he began to ask for

info. (Once when I was in the waiting room, he referred a departing pt to me.

Told her she should ask me about b12 shots, lol. She had fibro.)

Adrienne

----- Original Message -----

From: sunscaper53@...

I was planning to get together as much info, as

possible, to see if that could influence her to be open about this

[Guest guest]

Rich,

I am in the process of trying to get testing done...nobody has contacted me,

yet..there only one doctor and one guy, who is not listed as a doctor, who

have the Impedance machine in a city nearby.....wouldn't you go to the

doctor..he's a D.O?. Can you give me an idea of how much these tests should

cost?

I, also, need to know if Decompensated Heart Failure is what I experienced

in October, 2005, which seemed like a " heart attack " with all the chest

symptomalogy.. Just to be accurate, that is what you are saying, right? It

was

quite unpleasant.

I am trying find that book, Medical Physiology to read up on that " detailed

description " ...but only the Medical Libraries probably have it and they are

closed.

Also, to be clear, the Vivid 7 is the echocardiography that you are

referring about the only machine that can diagnose Restrictive

Cardiomyopathy..is

that correct?

I only used oral sea salt, orally...no intravenous!

I just need to be sure that I am correctly interpreting, here...as my brain

if fogged.!!!

Amelia

[Guest guest]

I know what you are saying is true...however, I have gathered info, on

CFS/ME cardiac issues from several different researchers (so they can't say,

well

it is only one physician's opinion), highlighted all the important points,

giving her a general summary of all the various problems in ME (as this

physician, I think she knows very little, or has probably been exposed to the

" Psychologizers " )

...but she seems, empathetic, to me, in general..(I am a mental health

therapist).and when she thought I was dying, she rushed me to the hospital for

testing..so this M.D. may be more open...not quite as bad as the male

physicians,

I have encountered.

About how much info do you provide, at one time??..

My father, finally, has started to understand the situation after reading

" Encounter with the Invisible...Dorothy Wall..so that seems good for the general

public, but do you think a physician would read that?

Amelia

[Guest guest]

Maybe, just maybe, you could work up a one page summary/abstracts of those major

points, like a resume, and use it as a cover sheet for the various reports. Then

she can be guided in her reading. You can start by saying: " here are a variety

of voices.... "

A doc read a popular book? Possible.

Adrienne

----- Original Message -----

From: sunscaper53@...

I know what you are saying is true...however, I have gathered info, on

CFS/ME cardiac issues from several different researchers (so they can't say,

well

it is only one physician's opinion), highlighted all the important points,

giving her a general summary of all the various problems in ME (as this

physician, I think she knows very little, or has probably been exposed to the

" Psychologizers " )

..but she seems, empathetic, to me, in general..(I am a mental health

therapist).and when she thought I was dying, she rushed me to the hospital for

testing..so this M.D. may be more open...not quite as bad as the male

physicians,

I have encountered.

About how much info do you provide, at one time??..

My father, finally, has started to understand the situation after reading

" Encounter with the Invisible...Dorothy Wall..so that seems good for the

general

public, but do you think a physician would read that?

Amelia

[Guest guest]

Well, basically, I could not walk...could barely breathe, every breath was

labored...plus all the chest symptomaology...I might die...but that might be

easier than living with this disease..but I did not die, so here I am to tell

the tale...so I decided we will live to see what else we must learn in this

life. Does that sound in any way, familiar?

[Guest guest]

But, isn't life so much more fun, when you do? I bet you were a formidable

foe for those cancer cells..if you don't mind me asking, which kind of

cancer??

One good thing about losing one's cognitive abilities is that one's senses

become more intense...so as a psychologist, I can sense other's problems,

more acutely...when I go out into the world.

Amelia

[Guest guest]

Adrienne,

Oh, I very much get sensory overload with too much stimulation from the

environment...that is what I see is happening with the Autistic Brain, so they

try to limit their stimulation,. and attach to objects, bizarre behaviors to

limit this stimulation. We seek more solitude...and I am never lonely with

myself.

Although I may have been depressed, at points during this disease, I no

longer feel any depression..there is too much to be learned...maybe, this has to

do with a more spiritual connection...

I no longer interject myself (as little as possible) into what I am

experiencing with other people...I let them tell me what is happening with

them..

For example...I have been helping my brother with his Bipolar son, and I

have never seen this much feeling displayed by him...he, in the past, has been

so mechanical, repressed, etc. but he is growing, now, as a result...that is

exciting, to me.

What I have found is that this disease can be a blessing, as well as, a

burden...so are all the problems that humans face.

And Rich is a great gift...I hope that he will lead us to a true cure.

Amelia

[Guest guest]

Hi, Amelia.

>

> Rich,

>

> I am in the process of trying to get testing done...nobody has

contacted me,

> yet..there only one doctor and one guy, who is not listed as a

doctor, who

> have the Impedance machine in a city nearby.....wouldn't you go to

the

> doctor..he's a D.O?. Can you give me an idea of how much these

tests should cost?

***I think I would probably pick the D.O., if I didn't know anything

else about either of them. I don't know what it would cost. I

suppose the doctors figure out what it takes to amortize their

investment in the machine over some reasonable time, and that may

depend on their patient load. Just have to call and ask, I guess.

>

> I, also, need to know if Decompensated Heart Failure is what I

experienced

> in October, 2005, which seemed like a " heart attack " with all the

chest

> symptomalogy.. Just to be accurate, that is what you are

saying, right? It was

> quite unpleasant.

***I think that's possible, momentarily. If you stay in

decompensated heart failure, you die. I've never been there

personally, but I understand that the experience is quite

unpleasant, sort of like feeling that you are going to die, and then

having a massive adrenaline rush.

>

> I am trying find that book, Medical Physiology to read up on

that " detailed

> description " ...but only the Medical Libraries probably have it and

they are

> closed.

***Sorry about that. It's an excellent book, and is the physiology

textbook that a lot of doctors study.

>

> Also, to be clear, the Vivid 7 is the echocardiography that you

are

> referring about the only machine that can diagnose Restrictive

Cardiomyopathy..is

> that correct?

***I know that one will do it, because that's the one Dr. Cheney

uses. I think there are competing machines that will do it, too. I

think Siemens makes one, for example.

>

> I only used oral sea salt, orally...no intravenous!

***O.K.

>

> I just need to be sure that I am correctly interpreting, here...as

my brain

> if fogged.!!!

>

> Amelia

***O.K., Amelia. I hope this helps.

***Rich

[Guest guest]

Hi, Amelia.

Well, I can't say for sure, but it sounds like it has some of the

elements of decompensated heart failure. Sounds like you're able to

take it as it comes. That's how I felt when I had cancer. I think

that attitude probably serves a person well in situations like

that. Panicking adds a lot of stress to an already stressful

situation, I think. Of course, it doesn't come naturally to

everyone to look at things this way.

Rich

>

> Well, basically, I could not walk...could barely breathe, every

breath was

> labored...plus all the chest symptomaology...I might die...but

that might be

> easier than living with this disease..but I did not die, so here I

am to tell

> the tale...so I decided we will live to see what else we must

learn in this

> life. Does that sound in any way, familiar?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Amelia wrote;

One good thing about losing one's cognitive abilities is that one's senses

become more intense...so as a psychologist, I can sense other's problems,

more acutely...when I go out into the world.

*** I do believe that my intuitions, which were always good, maybe didn't get

stronger, but didn't go all the way down the tubes with the rest of my

cognition. But my senses were very shut down. That is part of the depressive

aspect of the disease, it seems; not able to stand or process much sensory

imput, so it all tends to shut down. Depression as protection.

Your fellow psychologist (art therapist),

Adrienne

[Guest guest]

Amelia,

Dr. Cheney and a doctor in New York (maybe others), are finding Lactate Spikes

in brain of PWCs. These spikes, or peaks are also seen in Mitochondrial disease,

at twice the height. He told me they indicate discrete injury. Lactate is a

by-product of sugar that is not being metabolised correctly...presumedly because

of mitochondria malfunction.

I had the MRS brain scan that showed lactate peaks in 6 of 36 grids of my brain.

The specific areas are consistent with some of my symptoms. Dr. Cheney said that

the one near the Thalamus may be connected to my sensory overload.

I have not been able to get a response from anyone about this finding in the

brain of PWCs. But I certainly do find it interesting.

I corresponded with an Adult Autistic, who recognised some of my symptoms, and

compensatory tricks. I also recognised some from others on websites. I remember

trying to share this some years back, getting the famous glazed over

look/response we are used to.

I also met Dr. Goldberg in 96, at a CFS conference, who was the first Dr. I

heard that saw a connection between autism and CFS.

Since CFS has (documented) many changes in the brain, I guess we are still

learning what is unique to us, but with similar outcome/symptoms, and what is

shared with other disorders.

Your post reminded me of early CFS research on " divided attention " and

sensory/stimulation problems. There is also the blood flow problem and the over

firing of neurons. Those studies did not mention Autism, as far as I know.

Also, the issue of " outside cues " in some brain injuries.

One CFS study said that the parts of our brains that are malfunctioning are more

scrambled than Alzheimers, or AIDS-related Dementia.

I have learned quite alot from knowing, researching and seeing people with

*most* varieties of brain disorders. From car accidents, to alcohol damage, ADD,

GWS, Learning Disabilities, Autism, CP-developmental delay, stroke, even mental

illnesses, etc.

{None of which I have any diagnosis of, or as far as my family, friends, or I

recall, any signs of, prior to viral on-set ME/CFS}

All sources have helped me to identify my cognitive symptoms and find tools to

compensate. Also made me aware of what " masking " is...the " work-arounds " for

daily functioning, communication, and social interaction.

Suddenly, (well, years, really), I have an idea of why many people are behaving

as they do...they are " masking " many of these conditions.

I have gotten Neuro-psych testing 3 times, and some in Speech Therapy. In all

cases, a number of cognitive deficits were found. In the most recent, at UCSF, I

was told that the tests perfectly match what I said are the problems in daily

life.

When I asked what the H I can do about it, the Psychologist said I've already

mastered so much masking/compensating, he had nothing to add.

Then, he did offer " Cognitive Therapy " . lol. Assuming this to be CBT, I said no

thanks, and ran, so to speak.

I was on my last leg, physically and mentally from being there.

In retrospect, If he accepts that I have organic injury, and it is the Memory

Clinic for such things as ALzheimers, maybe " Cognitive Therapy " could help.

" Speech Therapy " covers brain injury as from stroke. I did benefit a little from

some tools there, such as organizing bills/paying and daily schedule...this

addressed my utter lack of sense of time needed and memory. Have not used it

lately. hmmm

>>>> For example...I have been helping my brother with his Bipolar son, and I

> have never seen this much feeling displayed by him...he, in the past, has been

> so mechanical, repressed, etc. but he is growing, now, as a result...that is

> exciting, to me.<<<<

how productive and satisfying!

I have found that I am now useful to those who have or care for elderly, social

phobias, alzheimers, brain injury, and others. I taught someone with partial

organic brain injury to parallel park...against constant protests that it was

impossible. It took 3 months, and she learned it! It was hilarious, along the

way, and included hitting one car.

Hang in there,

Katrina

>

> Adrienne,

>

> Oh, I very much get sensory overload with too much stimulation from the

> environment...that is what I see is happening with the Autistic Brain, so they

> try to limit their stimulation,. and attach to objects, bizarre behaviors to

> limit this stimulation. We seek more solitude...and I am never lonely with

> myself.

>

> Although I may have been depressed, at points during this disease, I no

> longer feel any depression..there is too much to be learned...maybe, this has

to

> do with a more spiritual connection...

>

> I no longer interject myself (as little as possible) into what I am

> experiencing with other people...I let them tell me what is happening with

them..

>

> For example...I have been helping my brother with his Bipolar son, and I

> have never seen this much feeling displayed by him...he, in the past, has been

> so mechanical, repressed, etc. but he is growing, now, as a result...that is

> exciting, to me.

>

> What I have found is that this disease can be a blessing, as well as, a

> burden...so are all the problems that humans face.

>

> And Rich is a great gift...I hope that he will lead us to a true cure.

>

> Amelia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If this is correct, then, why would I continue to have these chest symptoms

AFTER being OFF SALT FOR NINE MONTHS, NEVER TOOK ABX, EXCEPT FOR 1-2 WEEKS

FOR SINUS INFECTIONS AND HAVEN'T TAKEN ANY ABX IN THE LAST YEAR OR TWO, OR

ANTI-LYME HERBS...TO MY KNOWLEDGE...

I have been through the majority of the CFS-related nutraceuticals, and

nothing I took had such a negative effect on my status as salt/c and has

continued for NINE MONTHS.

Now, this not mean that it may help you and other people...so if it does

Hoorah!!!...

but for me I have been much worse off in the last year, after consuming

SALT/C

AMELIA

[Guest guest]

Sunscaper>> Well, basically, I could not walk...could barely breathe,

every breath was labored...plus all the chest symptomaology...I might

die...but that might be

easier than living with this disease..but I did not die, so here I am to

tell

the tale...so I decided we will live to see what else we must learn in

this

life. Does that sound in any way, familiar?

** This sure is familiar, I get these symptoms every time I take too

much salt/c, or abx, or various anti-Lyme herbs and then get a powerful

die-off reaction. Sometimes it happens as part of a viral response, I

believe due to immune activation and resulting die-off. For a time I

thought it was serious heart trouble. Probably there are some heart

issues, but if so they are modulated primarily by biotoxins. I find

that if I can bind toxins or get the liver working better the symptoms

subside.

--Kurt

[Guest guest]

a,

One of the reasons I quit psychotherapy was that I no longer had the

cognitive facilities/energy to continue.. I REALIZE THAT..however, I am doing

better

than the other people, that have been " professionally " helping my brother..I

discovered that my neuphew has aptitude problems, as well, as Bipolar

Disorder.

..but we are not the mentally retarded...they seem happier than most people,

would you not agree?

We know that we have significant mental processing problems..

..my own mother, who was one of the wisest, most intelligent, spiritual,

emotionally balanced person I knew,...stated to me, " You can't have brain

problems...you are too smart!!! Even she did not understand the problem.

My problem has not been that I appear dumb, It has been that I appear TOO

SMART TO HAVE THAT PROBLEM.

[Guest guest]

I worked for years with mentally handicapped. They certainly had better esp

when it came to sensing other's emotions. However, without cognitive ability

I would never trust them to understand me or help solve my problems. I think

when we have cns damage we need to be very careful in our interactions with

anyone, and certainly not assume we can effectively counsel others. I

stopped teaching school. If I had been a therapist I would have stopped

practicing.

a Carnes

Amelia wrote;

One good thing about losing one's cognitive abilities is that one's senses

become more intense...so as a psychologist, I can sense other's problems,

more acutely...when I go out into the world.

*** I do believe that my intuitions, which were always good, maybe didn't

get stronger, but didn't go all the way down the tubes with the rest of my

cognition. But my senses were very shut down. That is part of the depressive

aspect of the disease, it seems; not able to stand or process much sensory

imput, so it all tends to shut down. Depression as protection.

Your fellow psychologist (art therapist),

Adrienne

[Guest guest]

I forgot to add that I am too exhausted to be a Psychotherapist, but

when I am in a group of people, people keep coming to me with their

problems..is the empathy showing, too much???- In

, sunscaper53@... wrote:

>

> a,

>

> One of the reasons I quit psychotherapy was that I no longer had

the

> cognitive facilities/energy to continue.. I REALIZE THAT..however,

I am doing better

> than the other people, that have been " professionally " helping my

brother..I

> discovered that my neuphew has aptitude problems, as well, as

Bipolar

> Disorder.

>

> .but we are not the mentally retarded...they seem happier than most

people,

> would you not agree?

>

> We know that we have significant mental processing problems..

>

> .my own mother, who was one of the wisest, most intelligent,

spiritual,

> emotionally balanced person I knew,...stated to me, " You can't have

brain

> problems...you are too smart!!! Even she did not understand the

problem.

>

> My problem has not been that I appear dumb, It has been that I

appear TOO

> SMART TO HAVE THAT PROBLEM.

>

>

>