Re: High doses of hydroxicobalamine: making me feel worse?

[Guest guest]

Things have to be in balance, especially B vitamins and amino acids. Are

you taking Bcomplex in addition to the B12? Are you taking adequate folic

acid/folate?

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

I'm not completely sure my feeling worse is because of these high

doses of hydroxicobalamine B12 but the only other thing I started

taking recently is these (low dose) B-complex pills and I don't know

if they're made from yeast, if I react to yeast or what. It's all so

confusing.

Anyone got any advise?

I'm from Portugal and things here are really bad where ME/CFS

awareness among doctors is concerned so I'm pretty much on my own with

treatments and stuff.

cheers,

a

[Guest guest]

yeah, its simple. Stop the shots for awhile. See what happens. Start them up

again. See what happens.

(Did the weather get much hotter when your worsening began?)

Adrienne

High doses of hydroxicobalamine: making me feel

worse?

Hi

I sent a post asking about this a couple of hours ago but it doesn't

show up. I was wondering for those of you who are taking or have

taken high doses of hydroxicobalamine: have any of you actually felt

worse?

I've been on 10,000 mcg I.M. hydroxicobalamine 3 times a week for 2

weeks now and I feel worse! I've even less stamina, feel so run down

and totally and utterly exhausted. My IBS is way worse; I'm constantly

bloated and with diarreiha.

I read that maybe the dose is too high and thus pulling out toxins too

fast.

I'm not completely sure my feeling worse is because of these high

doses of hydroxicobalamine B12 but the only other thing I started

taking recently is these (low dose) B-complex pills and I don't know

if they're made from yeast, if I react to yeast or what. It's all so

confusing.

Anyone got any advise?

I'm from Portugal and things here are really bad where ME/CFS

awareness among doctors is concerned so I'm pretty much on my own with

treatments and stuff.

cheers,

a

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Does it contain any excipients? Could it be that you are reacting to them?

bw

Nil

High doses of hydroxicobalamine: making me feel

worse?

> Hi

>

> I sent a post asking about this a couple of hours ago but it doesn't

> show up. I was wondering for those of you who are taking or have

> taken high doses of hydroxicobalamine: have any of you actually felt

> worse?

>

> I've been on 10,000 mcg I.M. hydroxicobalamine 3 times a week for 2

> weeks now and I feel worse! I've even less stamina, feel so run down

> and totally and utterly exhausted. My IBS is way worse; I'm constantly

[Guest guest]

Hi guys,

thanks for clues re worsening of symptoms after starting hydroxi B12

injections. I'm cutting back to 5,000mcg to see what happens. I was

taking B-complex tabs but the doses were really low so I switched to a

multi by Solgar which includes the whole B-group and is yeast-free.

Hope this makes a difference.

a

>

> Things have to be in balance, especially B vitamins and amino acids.

Are

> you taking Bcomplex in addition to the B12? Are you taking adequate

folic

> acid/folate?

>

> mjh

[Guest guest]

Hi, la.

Another thing to consider is that in order to convert

hydroxocobalamin to methylcobalamin, which is the active form needed

by the methylation cycle, which is the most important use for B12 in

the body, you need to have enough glutathione. Glutathione is

depleted in many PWCs. If your glutathione is depleted, you may not

be able to use hydroxocobalamin effectively. You can find out by

getting the red blood cell total glutathione test from

http://www.immuno-sci-lab.com. I think it costs $85, but you should

phone them and get the details.

Rich

> >

> > Things have to be in balance, especially B vitamins and amino

acids.

> Are

> > you taking Bcomplex in addition to the B12? Are you taking

adequate

> folic

> > acid/folate?

> >

> > mjh

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rich,

Thanks so much for the information.

Yeah, one of the things that most frustrates me is that over here in

Portugal these kind of lab tests just don't exist. Sometimes I'll go

to my family doctor with the name of some test like red blood cell EFA

testing or a Natural Killer cell function assay and he's never even

heard of half these tests. He'll look them up in the database and

they don't come up because they don't exist in our national health

system (our health system is free) or even if I went to a private

clinic it's exactly the same because they just don't exist here. So

frustrating.

But, yes, I've also read about this glutathione depletion and I'm

really interested in trying undenatured whey protein but again I have

no way of knowing if I'm actually depleted because there's no lab

tests I can do to check for that:(

I wanted to do the blood lipid peroxides and urinary lipid peroxides

and citrate elevation and also (lol) the organic acid analyisi Cheney

talks about to determine glutathione deficiency but I can forget about

that: it just doesn't exist here.

Cheers,

a

> > >

> > > Things have to be in balance, especially B vitamins and amino

> acids.

> > Are

> > > you taking Bcomplex in addition to the B12? Are you taking

> adequate

> > folic

> > > acid/folate?

> > >

> > > mjh

> >

>

[Guest guest]

it really is a lot easier to just try the whey protein and see if it

makes you better or worse than to do all this testing - and besides

all the testing you are talking about is completely irrelevant.

Andy . . . . .

>

> Yeah, one of the things that most frustrates me is that over here in

> Portugal these kind of lab tests just don't exist. Sometimes I'll go

> to my family doctor with the name of some test like red blood cell EFA

> testing or a Natural Killer cell function assay and he's never even

> heard of half these tests. He'll look them up in the database and

> they don't come up because they don't exist in our national health

> system (our health system is free) or even if I went to a private

> clinic it's exactly the same because they just don't exist here. So

> frustrating.

>

>

> But, yes, I've also read about this glutathione depletion and I'm

> really interested in trying undenatured whey protein but again I have

> no way of knowing if I'm actually depleted because there's no lab

> tests I can do to check for that:(

>

> I wanted to do the blood lipid peroxides and urinary lipid peroxides

> and citrate elevation and also (lol) the organic acid analyisi Cheney

> talks about to determine glutathione deficiency but I can forget about

> that: it just doesn't exist here.

>

> Cheers,

>

> a

>

>

[Guest guest]

Some people simply do worse on any moderately large amount of any form

of B-12. Just like whey protein this is NOT good for EVERYONE, even

though it can be quite helpful for some.

Also there is an amount beyond which everyone has trouble with it. You

may do well on lesser amounts.

Andy

[Guest guest]

I seem to be doing better at 5000mcg; not as exhausted. I think it may

have been too much too soon.

Cheers,

a

>

> Some people simply do worse on any moderately large amount of any form

> of B-12. Just like whey protein this is NOT good for EVERYONE, even

> though it can be quite helpful for some.

>

> Also there is an amount beyond which everyone has trouble with it. You

> may do well on lesser amounts.

>

> Andy

>

[Guest guest]

Andy said;

Also there is an amount beyond which everyone has trouble with it. You

may do well on lesser amounts.

***I had read that there is no known toxic dose of b12. Is the having trouble

that you speak of different than " toxic dose? " Could you elaborate, or document

what you are saying?

I am asking because I am one of the ones who benefits strongly and so of

course I recommend it strongly, and I want to be sure I know what I am doing.

All I have ever heard of is folks getting a buzzed, " nervous " feeling.

Adrienne

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Andy said;

>

>

> Also there is an amount beyond which everyone has trouble with it. You

> may do well on lesser amounts.

>

> ***I had read that there is no known toxic dose of b12. Is the

having trouble that you speak of different than " toxic dose? " Could

you elaborate,

The problems are agitated angry aggression and a dissapearance of

motivation. There are no physical problems. I don't think this would

be considered " toxicity. "

> I am asking because I am one of the ones who benefits strongly and

so of course I recommend it strongly, and I want to be sure I know

what I am doing. All I have ever heard of is folks getting a buzzed,

" nervous " feeling.

That is the beginnings of it. Mostly if they just use a bit less it is

fine. Many people who get the agitation problem actually do really

well and benefit from somewhat less.

For people with any history of agitation or aggression or anger

management problems I strongly suggest they work up to their target

dose starting with oral B-12, and when they are taking a ton of that,

switch to shots if they want to. The equivalent is about 80:1 - 80 mg

down the hatch or sublingual = 1 mg injected.

Methylcobalamin is the most potent at causing this. Starting someone

on high dose injections of that can cause real problems if it turns

out to be too much for them - and it can take a few months to wear

off. If you ramp up and stop when the problem first appears it

usually dissapears in a few days.

Since people are unlikely to tell you if they have these problems I

simply explain that in all cases rather than having to question them

and play guessing games about dark secrets....

Andy

[Guest guest]

>

>

> The problems are agitated angry aggression and a dissapearance of

> motivation. There are no physical problems. I don't think this would

> be considered " toxicity. "

With me the problem was feeling totally drained. I started to feel

even more exhausted; a lot more; more malaise; just sheer exhaustion.

I can't be totally sure it was the high dose B-12 but can't see what

else would've caused this rapid and unexpected worsening of these

symptoms.