Re: immunoglobin / prozac ?

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

Welcome to the group. I think you are wise to hesitate with the

prescription for Prozac. Do you mind if I ask: If you are not

depressed, what kind of a doctor would prescribe Prozac for you? Are

you confident in the care that you received from this person?

I can't offer any advice about immunoglobulin and vitamin injections,

but I would, personally, stay away from Prozac. It's been many years

since I read the results of the clinical trials that accompanied the

shuttling of Prozac through the FDA, so I don't have a URL to share.

But the trial was startling, from what I read, in that it had only 60-

something individuals enrolled in it by the time it wound down and

concluded. Not exactly " well tested, " to my thinking. But that's

just me. I would stay away from any antidepressant produced in the

last quarter century -- especially if I had no need for it, in the

first place (no depression, as you state).

In general, also, I think it's helpful to be able to call something

by a given " name, " so I can understand your happiness with finally

having a name like CFS to hook onto. Lots of us are in that same

boat. But if you go to the corner market and purchase what you think

is a basket of plums, and you get home and find out that your basket

is full of cauliflower, you're not in the same position as when you

left to go to the store. You might have wanted to serve your plums

with vanilla ice cream, but I doubt if vanilla ice cream would be

tasty served with the cauliflower you ended up with. Anyway, perhaps

you should give everyone a run-through of what kinds of physical

problems you're having. That might be a better place to start?

Welcome again to the group. There are lots of smart people here, and

I hope you find the help you need.

in Champaign IL

>

> greetings,

>

> My name is Steve and I have just (finally) been diagnosed as having

> CFS... this following 6 or 7 years of a kind of frustrating, tight-

> lipped, isolating confusion. It's been hell, but I actually feel

quite

> relieved to now have a name for my condition. Anyway, perhaps this

> isn't the best place for sharing my whole CFS story (?), so I would

> like to ask everybody here if anything knows about immunoglobin and

> prozac treatment. I have recently begun to receive treatment

(although

> I haven't filled my prozac perscription and am reluctant to do so

> because I'm not depressed and don't like messing with my brain

> chemistry). This treatment includes eating only organic food (good

> luck! I live in Korea!), having a vitamin injection and intravenous

> immunoglobin for 30 minutes every 2 weeks, and taking prozac.

>

> Is anyone here receiving similar treatment? Any thoughts would be

> greatly appreciated.

>

> salute,

> S

>

[Guest guest]

y symptoms started about seven years ago while in college. I got

sick with strep throat, took antibiotics, got it again right away,

took other antibiotics, then got a chronic sinus problem (which drs

attempted to relieve with more antibiotics and nasal spray) and felt

fatigued like never before after that.

*****WHEN YOUR GOOD BACTERIA IS WIPED OUT ENOUGH THAT IT IS UNABLE TO

RECOVER TOXIC METALS WILL START RE CIRCULATE IN YOUR BODY. THE BOWEL IS A

PRIMARY

AVENUE TO EXCRETE TOXIC METALS,

Since then, I have never been

the same, the main symptom being an inability to exercise. Prior to

this happening, I was very athletic. Since then, I have tried every

form of exercise: light sit-ups, push-ups, light jogs, hiking, yoga,

etc. The end result is pretty much always the same. I feel ultra-

dizzy right after, and then get progressively worse over the next

few hours until I can barely think anymore. Following exercise, I

feel really depressed and irritable, physically exhausted, have dry

eyes and mouth, get thirsty, have a headache and sometimes a sore

throat, feel confused and socially inept, and just need to sleep. My

cognitive abilities become severely impaired, and it lasts for up to

2 days. I really miss exercising, so I have been doing my best to

get back into it for a long time, but always have the same result no

matter how hard or soft the form of exercise. In fact, I have tried

to push myself a few times, thinking I would get over that " hump " ,

but it only gets worse the harder I push.

***SOUNDS LIKE YOUR TOXINS ARE BEING STIRRED UP AND PERHAPS YOUR GLUTATHIONE

LEVELS ARE FALLING HENCE ITS NOT ABLE TO COPE WITH THE FREE RADICALS FROM

EXERCISING AND TOXINS IN YOUR SYSTEM.

The

really weird part is, if I smoke cigarettes while I'm working a

labour job, my symptoms all but disappear. That really stumps me!

*** IT DOESNT STUMP ME - YOUR PHASE 1 DETOX SYSTEM IS REVVING UP DUE TO SOME

REASON IE. TOXINS AND THIS MAY BE DEPLETING GLUTATHIONE AT THE SAME TIME.

CIGARETTES INHIBIT PHASE 1 SO IT MAY BE RELIEVING YOU IN SOME WAY BUT IT ALSO

BE DEPLETING GLUTATHIONE AT THE SAME TIME.

But I have quit smoking again and have no desire to go back to it,

and no longer work a physical job (I have smoked while not working

labour jobs in the past and all the symptoms remained...)labour job

quit and started smoking many times, and think this somehow fits

into the picture, like the cigarettes actually helped my brain to

get blood sugar or something. Weird, I know.

*** IT DOES - FOR ME THE ANSWER WAS TO SPEND CONSIDERABLE TIME BOOSTING

GLUTATHIONE AND THEN WHEN THIS PATHWAY WAS EXHAUSTED I WENT ABOUT SLOWING PHASE

1.

Anyway, I get colds and flus a lot, have sinus flare-ups following

the eating of some foods (namely wheat, dairy, beer), have fairly

poor sleeps and lots of headaches, and I seem to have constant

stomach problems (gas, bloating, indigestion, constipation, and

diarrea). I am otherwise ok, happy, and relatively positive, so long

as I don't allow my heart to pound (experience has shown me that as

little as 15 minutes of heart-rate-acceleralittle as 15 minutes of

as much as 36-48 hours of suffering and mental impairment). Because

of this, I've gone from being very athletic and active to having a

general aversion to exercise.

*** YOULL HAVE TO MODIFY YOUR LIFESTYLE AND DIET TOTALLY IF YOU WANT TO BEAT

THIS THING!!

cheers,

Steve

Regards

CS ( sorry about the caps! )

[Guest guest]

> you should give everyone a run-through of what kinds of physical

> problems you're having. That might be a better place to start?

>

> Welcome again to the group. There are lots of smart people here,

and

> I hope you find the help you need.

>

>

> in Champaign IL

Thanks for the reply, .

My symptoms started about seven years ago while in college. I got

sick with strep throat, took antibiotics, got it again right away,

took other antibiotics, then got a chronic sinus problem (which drs

attempted to relieve with more antibiotics and nasal spray) and felt

fatigued like never before after that. Since then, I have never been

the same, the main symptom being an inability to exercise. Prior to

this happening, I was very athletic. Since then, I have tried every

form of exercise: light sit-ups, push-ups, light jogs, hiking, yoga,

etc. The end result is pretty much always the same. I feel ultra-

dizzy right after, and then get progressively worse over the next

few hours until I can barely think anymore. Following exercise, I

feel really depressed and irritable, physically exhausted, have dry

eyes and mouth, get thirsty, have a headache and sometimes a sore

throat, feel confused and socially inept, and just need to sleep. My

cognitive abilities become severely impaired, and it lasts for up to

2 days. I really miss exercising, so I have been doing my best to

get back into it for a long time, but always have the same result no

matter how hard or soft the form of exercise. In fact, I have tried

to push myself a few times, thinking I would get over that " hump " ,

but it only gets worse the harder I push.

Oddly enough, I have had brief periods where I've had to take

physical labour jobs. After 2 weeks or so I start to cope a little

better, but I still can't think during downtime (only sleep!). The

really weird part is, if I smoke cigarettes while I'm working a

labour job, my symptoms all but disappear. That really stumps me!

But I have quit smoking again and have no desire to go back to it,

and no longer work a physical job (I have smoked while not working

labour jobs in the past and all the symptoms remained...). I have

quit and started smoking many times, and think this somehow fits

into the picture, like the cigarettes actually helped my brain to

get blood sugar or something. Weird, I know.

Anyway, I get colds and flus a lot, have sinus flare-ups following

the eating of some foods (namely wheat, dairy, beer), have fairly

poor sleeps and lots of headaches, and I seem to have constant

stomach problems (gas, bloating, indigestion, constipation, and

diarrea). I am otherwise ok, happy, and relatively positive, so long

as I don't allow my heart to pound (experience has shown me that as

little as 15 minutes of heart-rate-accelerating exercise can lead to

as much as 36-48 hours of suffering and mental impairment). Because

of this, I've gone from being very athletic and active to having a

general aversion to exercise.

cheers,

Steve

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

>>>>> 6 or 7 years of a kind of frustrating, tight-

> lipped, isolating confusion. It's been hell,<<<<<

You have a great way with words...some of us (me) can certainly identify.

>>>> but I actually feel quite

> relieved to now have a name for my condition.<<<<<

Few might understand the celebration of this moment!---

>>>>This treatment includes eating only organic food (good

> luck! I live in Korea!),<<<<

I am not familiar with this as unavailable in Korea. There are ways to wash

vegetables to remove at least surface chemicals/pesticides. We have some ready

made sprays here, but there are other ways too. I am blanking out on what to

use...maybe someone here knows or you could look it up.

>>>>having a vitamin injection<<<<

Which vitamins? Some of us benefit alot from injections of B-12, (preferably not

the cyano kind), for brain detox and energy, and Magnesium and Taurine. (MG for

heart, muscles, other?)

>>>and intravenous

> immunoglobin for 30 minutes every 2 weeks,<<<

Is this Gamma Globulin? This also has helped some PWCs very much, and others,

not. Injections of GG helped me alot for several years. I tried but was

unsuccessful, at getting the IV form.

It is a blood product, so that might be a consideration. It was worth it to me

at the time.

>>> and taking prozac.<<<<

In the early days many/most CFS

Specialists prescribed Prozac.

Only somewhat for depression. But part of the reason was that, for unknown

reasons, it appeared to modulate T-cells. I don't know the current thinking on

that.

But, there is more evidence now of long term damage from Prozac, so it is

used less or temporarily.

Hope this helps,

Katrina

In , " stevenhorr " <sonofdelbert@...> wrote:

>

> greetings,

>

> My name is Steve and I have just (finally) been diagnosed as having

> CFS... this following 6 or 7 years of a kind of frustrating, tight-

> lipped, isolating confusion. It's been hell, but I actually feel quite

> relieved to now have a name for my condition. Anyway, perhaps this

> isn't the best place for sharing my whole CFS story (?), so I would

> like to ask everybody here if anything knows about immunoglobin and

> prozac treatment. I have recently begun to receive treatment (although

> I haven't filled my prozac perscription and am reluctant to do so

> because I'm not depressed and don't like messing with my brain

> chemistry). This treatment includes eating only organic food (good

> luck! I live in Korea!), having a vitamin injection and intravenous

> immunoglobin for 30 minutes every 2 weeks, and taking prozac.

>

> Is anyone here receiving similar treatment? Any thoughts would be

> greatly appreciated.

>

> salute,

> S

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks CS. I have a couple questions for you, if you have a

minute...

> ***SOUNDS LIKE YOUR TOXINS ARE BEING STIRRED UP AND PERHAPS YOUR

GLUTATHIONE

> LEVELS ARE FALLING HENCE ITS NOT ABLE TO COPE WITH THE FREE

RADICALS FROM

> EXERCISING AND TOXINS IN YOUR SYSTEM.

Where can one obtain this Glutathione?

******I used Whey Protein to raise Glutathione ( phase 2)

> *** IT DOESNT STUMP ME - YOUR PHASE 1 DETOX SYSTEM IS REVVING UP

DUE TO SOME

> REASON IE. TOXINS AND THIS MAY BE DEPLETING GLUTATHIONE AT THE

SAME TIME.

> CIGARETTES INHIBIT PHASE 1 SO IT MAY BE RELIEVING YOU IN SOME WAY

BUT IT ALSO

> BE DEPLETING GLUTATHIONE AT THE SAME TIME.

I don't understand what Phase 1 is. I guess I'm going to have to

research more...

*********You may want to look at :

_www.liverdoctor.com_ (http://www.liverdoctor.com)

Regards

CS

[Guest guest]

Thanks CS. I have a couple questions for you, if you have a

minute...

> ***SOUNDS LIKE YOUR TOXINS ARE BEING STIRRED UP AND PERHAPS YOUR

GLUTATHIONE

> LEVELS ARE FALLING HENCE ITS NOT ABLE TO COPE WITH THE FREE

RADICALS FROM

> EXERCISING AND TOXINS IN YOUR SYSTEM.

Where can one obtain this Glutathione?

> *** IT DOESNT STUMP ME - YOUR PHASE 1 DETOX SYSTEM IS REVVING UP

DUE TO SOME

> REASON IE. TOXINS AND THIS MAY BE DEPLETING GLUTATHIONE AT THE

SAME TIME.

> CIGARETTES INHIBIT PHASE 1 SO IT MAY BE RELIEVING YOU IN SOME WAY

BUT IT ALSO

> BE DEPLETING GLUTATHIONE AT THE SAME TIME.

I don't understand what Phase 1 is. I guess I'm going to have to

research more...

Steve

[Guest guest]

Steve,

What you are describing about your exercise experience is the hallmark of CFS.

I too was very much into exercise, hard body, etc. Loved it, worked weights and

aerobics. You will find the post exertional maliase is part of CFS. Very tough

for people who loved to exercise. I have learned not to push. It only makes

things worse. Stay with the list, read, learn and ask questions. It will get

better.

Janet

in San Diego

Edy Rayfield <edyrayfield@...> wrote:

Hi Steve,

Good thing you have college experience because this group is almost as

knowledgable as a professor on what ails you. You may be on your way to a lot of

study time. You've come to the right place, welcome. I'm going to let Rich, Kurt

or Jill address some things for you and the rest are right up there, too.

Keep asking your questions, be patient and you will get replies and some very

appropriate advide. Hang tough, kiddo

Edy

stevenhorr <sonofdelbert@...> wrote:

> you should give everyone a run-through of what kinds of physical

> problems you're having. That might be a better place to start?

>

> Welcome again to the group. There are lots of smart people here,

and

> I hope you find the help you need.

>

>

> in Champaign IL

Thanks for the reply, .

My symptoms started about seven years ago while in college. I got

sick with strep throat, took antibiotics, got it again right away,

took other antibiotics, then got a chronic sinus problem (which drs

attempted to relieve with more antibiotics and nasal spray) and felt

fatigued like never before after that. Since then, I have never been

the same, the main symptom being an inability to exercise. Prior to

this happening, I was very athletic. Since then, I have tried every

form of exercise: light sit-ups, push-ups, light jogs, hiking, yoga,

etc. The end result is pretty much always the same. I feel ultra-

dizzy right after, and then get progressively worse over the next

few hours until I can barely think anymore. Following exercise, I

feel really depressed and irritable, physically exhausted, have dry

eyes and mouth, get thirsty, have a headache and sometimes a sore

throat, feel confused and socially inept, and just need to sleep. My

cognitive abilities become severely impaired, and it lasts for up to

2 days. I really miss exercising, so I have been doing my best to

get back into it for a long time, but always have the same result no

matter how hard or soft the form of exercise. In fact, I have tried

to push myself a few times, thinking I would get over that " hump " ,

but it only gets worse the harder I push.

Oddly enough, I have had brief periods where I've had to take

physical labour jobs. After 2 weeks or so I start to cope a little

better, but I still can't think during downtime (only sleep!). The

really weird part is, if I smoke cigarettes while I'm working a

labour job, my symptoms all but disappear. That really stumps me!

But I have quit smoking again and have no desire to go back to it,

and no longer work a physical job (I have smoked while not working

labour jobs in the past and all the symptoms remained...). I have

quit and started smoking many times, and think this somehow fits

into the picture, like the cigarettes actually helped my brain to

get blood sugar or something. Weird, I know.

Anyway, I get colds and flus a lot, have sinus flare-ups following

the eating of some foods (namely wheat, dairy, beer), have fairly

poor sleeps and lots of headaches, and I seem to have constant

stomach problems (gas, bloating, indigestion, constipation, and

diarrea). I am otherwise ok, happy, and relatively positive, so long

as I don't allow my heart to pound (experience has shown me that as

little as 15 minutes of heart-rate-accelerating exercise can lead to

as much as 36-48 hours of suffering and mental impairment). Because

of this, I've gone from being very athletic and active to having a

general aversion to exercise.

cheers,

Steve

[Guest guest]

Hi

Years ago they thought antidepressents would help, but now they know they don't.

I have no idea why they would give you an antidepressent for CFS these days. I

think they don't know what they are doing.

If you have a lot of viral symptoms (like you have the flu) then I found

immunoglobulin very useful. Colostrum and Transfer factor are also useful and

you can get them without a prescription. Also, you should look into

glutathione.

I suggest reading the archives. You will learn a great deal, undoubtedly more

than your doctors!

Doris

[Guest guest]

Hey Doris,

>>>I think they don't know what they are doing.<<<<

Is this perhaps a bit extreme? I have no idea why Steve's Dr. prescribed Prozac,

or for how long, but

A) The other recommendations are far superior to any I have received locally,

and may be among some with good results of many long term patients here. If

it's B-12, MG and GG + organic for instance. That was a good start for me, that

helped.

The top CFS docs used Prozac largely because it modulates T-cells and gives

energy. Has this finding changed? Maybe the doc is thinking that, but not up

with long term damage being found. (True of most in medical profession!)

So, precautions on it are great, and whether the doctor is targeting

depression...

yet, I don't know about Korea, but it appears Steve has a doctor who *does* have

some knowledge, and maybe can be worked with. Like, don't throw the baby out

with the bathwater?

Just guessing, as we all are so far...

Katrina

>

> Hi

> Years ago they thought antidepressents would help, but now they know they

don't. I have no idea why they would give you an antidepressent for CFS these

days. I think they don't know what they are doing.

>

> If you have a lot of viral symptoms (like you have the flu) then I found

immunoglobulin very useful. Colostrum and Transfer factor are also useful and

you can get them without a prescription. Also, you should look into

glutathione.

>

> I suggest reading the archives. You will learn a great deal, undoubtedly more

than your doctors!

>

> Doris

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello,

Just to clarify, my doctor is a Korean / American who practised

treating CFS patients in Chicago for 20 years before setting up shop

in Seoul. He tells me he is friends with many CFS big names such as

Byron Hyde and Klimas (among others which I forget), and

assures me that he video conferences with specialists in America on

a regular basis. I feel like I'm in good hands (better than I've

been in yet, at least, regarding this).

Thank you.

Steve

>

> So, precautions on it are great, and whether the doctor is

targeting depression...

> yet, I don't know about Korea, but it appears Steve has a doctor

who *does* have some knowledge, and maybe can be worked with. Like,

don't throw the baby out with the bathwater?

>

[Guest guest]

Steve-I would bet that your doc thinks you are depressed since you

have been given a diagnoses w/ no cure currently. Just ask him.

If you aren't depressed, I can't think of any other reason that

he would prescribe Prozac, so don't take it unless you get a good

reason from the doc. There have been many discussions on this list

over the last 5 years about SSRIs and how they 'fry your brain'.

However, for someone who is truly depressed, Prozac may be

beneficial. But I can assure you, Prozac won't help your exercise

intolerance problem. Just keep your exercise down to walking

or something you can handle until you find a treatment that works.

Mike C

>

> Hello,

>

> Just to clarify, my doctor is a Korean / American who practised

> treating CFS patients in Chicago for 20 years before setting up

shop

> in Seoul. He tells me he is friends with many CFS big names such

as

> Byron Hyde and Klimas (among others which I forget), and

> assures me that he video conferences with specialists in America

on

> a regular basis. I feel like I'm in good hands (better than I've

> been in yet, at least, regarding this).

>

> Thank you.

>

> Steve