Re: immunoglobin / prozac ?/Steve

[Guest guest]

" My research uncovered several possibilities. (Another has just been

added...Inhibiting Phase 1 detox)

I cannot remember all I found but I think these are some;

Nicotinic receptors; maybe Choline?; MAO-B Dopamine effect (this one is from

smoking itself, not nicotine alone); raising Blood pressure/volume;

adrenaline to heart that's got unusual form of heart failure, and others. sorry

can't

be more specific. Dr. Cheney said it is like valium, (in addition to being

stimulating)Ni

****Yep it may also help to stimualte heart function and hence have a

stimulating effect to the rest of the body.

Regards

CS

[Guest guest]

Steve,

Again, you describe a very classic type onset and life with ME/CFS.

Post exertion malaise is a hallmark symptom, distinguishing from depression and

other conditions...even hitting 2 days later, or lasting 2 days or many more.

Including actual decline in IQ, muscle fatigue, feeling toxic, long term damage,

and all you described.

About Cardiac symptoms...these also are very common, and there is interesting

work among researchers. You could look on website of ME Society of America under

Cardiac findings, including Lerner, Peckerman and Cheney.

Also found in CFS are abnormalities of Autonomic system such as POTS and NMH,

that can effect standing/exertion/heartbeat/cognition.

Dr. Cheney has said in the past that the Aerobic system is damaged, and that

exercise using the Anerobic system is better advised. I think this is like

weight lifting for one. It might also be activity in short spurts, rest in

between, which is best for me.

It's one form of " pacing " , which is usually good for CFS patients, as opposed to

pushing. Push/crash is typical for us.

ANother ME/CFS guideline used is " the 50% rule " ...do 50% of what you feel like

doing, then rest.

another form of exercise is " bouncing " , on a special contraption ( " Bounce-back "

chair, developed at NASA), small trampoline, or a large exercise ball.

If Autonomic System or Heart are issues, keeping feet up (when sitting), or keep

them moving (not standing still) helps.

About the smoking, this is also experienced among some. The relief of CFS

symptoms in patients has been reported by Klimas, maybe others and told to

me by Dr. Cheney. (They are 2 recognized CFS Specialists, having studied and

treated CFS for many years).

{Even an Oncologist told me she has read of smoking benefits in some

conditions}.

I researched this years ago, because it was my experience. I was a non-smoker

for 1st 6 or 7 years of CFS, several bedridden, then had dramatic relief of

physical and cognitive sx. when picking it up.

Went on and off many times since. Using cigarettes without added chemicals.

{ I have assumption that usual detriments and damage of smoking also occur}

My research uncovered several possibilities. (Another has just been

added...Inhibiting Phase 1 detox)

I cannot remember all I found but I think these are some;

Nicotinic receptors; maybe Choline?; MAO-B Dopamine effect (this one is from

smoking itself, not nicotine alone); raising Blood pressure/volume; adrenaline

to heart that's got unusual form of heart failure, and others. sorry can't be

more specific. Dr. Cheney said it is like valium, (in addition to being

stimulating).

The Nicotine patch has been used for CFS and Alzheimer's cognition.

There is a form of Parkinson's which advances far slower among smokers.

I also needed to understand a very strange thing. I have MCS, but found I could

stand the pollution in rush hour traffic when smoking and nearly incapacitated

when not.

I have heard of this among others with MCS. No one has ever explained this to

me, but I found an interesting piece of information. In situations of carbon

monoxide poisoning, persons who smoked were the last to succumb. hmmm...

As years advance, of ME/CFS, age, and smoking accumulation (even with years

off), this becomes a horrific dilemma.

For me, having the least physical and cognitive challenges is the optimal. But a

luxury, or unacceptable for some.

Smoking and second-hand smoke is completely intolerable for some/most CFS

patients. (Including me when I'm not doing it...weird).

Patients who have truly benefitted from numerous pharmaceuticals face a similar

nightmare. (Even when they work)...that of serious long term damage and side

effects, and IMO, in some cases, life-threatening.

There is a great deal of impressive research on ME/CFS now, involving Brain,

Heart, Immune System and other.

One place to look is CoCure archives, under those categories. (non-psych).

On this list are patients ranging from mild, moderate to fairly severe. Many

with multiple overlapping conditions or complications, and even other Primary

conditions.

Ranging from little to alot of financial resources.

Under the care of CFS-clueless Doctors or up to the top CFS Specialists in the

world. I've had both and all between.

Plus there are non-patients dedicated to studying and sharing on all of the

above, every theory and system.

There are long term and newer patients, and wide diversity of treatments

discussed...both pharmaceutical ( " Western " ) and

Alternative/Wholistic/Supplements and other management tools.

There are probably many things that can help you. But ME/CFS is *Very Complex*

and patients respond very differently to any one thing.

Most Specialists and patients use multi-faceted approach, usually

simultaneously, but also some in a particular order.

Don't worry if it's overwhelming at first.

Most of us cannot absorb everything on this list. But there's a ton of valuable

information, and experienced people.

Best wishes,

Katrina

>

> > you should give everyone a run-through of what kinds of physical

> > problems you're having. That might be a better place to start?

> >

> > Welcome again to the group. There are lots of smart people here,

> and

> > I hope you find the help you need.

> >

> >

> > in Champaign IL

>

>

> Thanks for the reply, .

>

> My symptoms started about seven years ago while in college. I got

> sick with strep throat, took antibiotics, got it again right away,

> took other antibiotics, then got a chronic sinus problem (which drs

> attempted to relieve with more antibiotics and nasal spray) and felt

> fatigued like never before after that. Since then, I have never been

> the same, the main symptom being an inability to exercise. Prior to

> this happening, I was very athletic. Since then, I have tried every

> form of exercise: light sit-ups, push-ups, light jogs, hiking, yoga,

> etc. The end result is pretty much always the same. I feel ultra-

> dizzy right after, and then get progressively worse over the next

> few hours until I can barely think anymore. Following exercise, I

> feel really depressed and irritable, physically exhausted, have dry

> eyes and mouth, get thirsty, have a headache and sometimes a sore

> throat, feel confused and socially inept, and just need to sleep. My

> cognitive abilities become severely impaired, and it lasts for up to

> 2 days. I really miss exercising, so I have been doing my best to

> get back into it for a long time, but always have the same result no

> matter how hard or soft the form of exercise. In fact, I have tried

> to push myself a few times, thinking I would get over that " hump " ,

> but it only gets worse the harder I push.

>

> Oddly enough, I have had brief periods where I've had to take

> physical labour jobs. After 2 weeks or so I start to cope a little

> better, but I still can't think during downtime (only sleep!). The

> really weird part is, if I smoke cigarettes while I'm working a

> labour job, my symptoms all but disappear. That really stumps me!

> But I have quit smoking

and have no desire to go back to it,

> and no longer work a physical job (I have smoked while not working

> labour jobs in the past and all the symptoms remained...). I have

> quit and started smoking many times, and think this somehow fits

> into the picture, like the cigarettes actually helped my brain to

> get blood sugar or something. Weird, I know.

>

> Anyway, I get colds and flus a lot, have sinus flare-ups following

> the eating of some foods (namely wheat, dairy, beer), have fairly

> poor sleeps and lots of headaches, and I seem to have constant

> stomach problems (gas, bloating, indigestion, constipation, and

> diarrea). I am otherwise ok, happy, and relatively positive, so long

> as I don't allow my heart to pound (experience has shown me that as

> little as 15 minutes of heart-rate-accelerating exercise can lead to

> as much as 36-48 hours of suffering and mental impairment). Because

> of this, I've gone from being very athletic and active to having a

> general aversion to exercise.

>

> cheers,

> Steve

>

[Guest guest]

I find one of the best resources to be http://www.phoenix-cfs.org/.

Almost all of the 'popular,' 'trendy' and formerly popular theories

and treatments and most of the new research is discussed there by

Cort , a member of this group who I believe has bad carpal

tunnel symptoms right now and doesn't post as often as he used to. I

find his analyses, being 'laic' rather than 'medical' to be more

unbiased than many of the other things you will read from researchers

and medicos with their own agendas. And he defines the terms better

than someone writing a medical article for MDs and PhDs who will

assume you know the jargon. I get confused myself when reading one

line of research and I get all excited about it and forget the

others; Cort's papers have a very helpful way of integrating what one

group finds with what another group finds, anticipating that one will

ask, 'yes, but what about. . . or how does that relate to. . . " he

also has a monthly newsletter that brings you up on the newest

research and often cross-references the related prior research, all

on the one website (you can Google within a website and that helps

you from wandering too far astray when you start following a line of thought).

[Guest guest]

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. There certainly is a hell

of a lot to digest! I always assumed that whatever was wrong with me

was not simple, as there seemed to be so many variables and all of the

doctors I saw had very few answers. I will continue with the

immunoglobin (although I still know very little about it), get back on

an anti-yeast, mostly organic diet, remain off the prozac (at least

until I can talk to my dr again about it in 2 weeks), and keep reading.

Again, thank you.

Steve

[Guest guest]

Hi Edy,

What is your source of information which says all schizophrenia

sufferers are smokers? I have known several persons diagnosed with

schizophrenia and none of them were smokers.

>

> Hi folks, Another interesting thing about smoking. 100% of people

with schizophrenia smoke cigarettes. I know this because my nephew

suffers with this and is a heavy smoker so I looked into it. It goes

to some receptor sight or sights in the brain that calm these kids. I

say kids, but I mean in their 20s.

[Guest guest]

Steve

Since Prozac recycles serotonin, why don't you consider raising serotonin by

another method.

SAM-e will help with serotonin, dopamine and norepinehtine (side effects are

better liver function and joint support)

l-Tryptophan

5-htp

Eat l-Tryptophan containing foods on an empty stomach

Be sure you are getting enough B complex and Magnesium, too

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

_Re: immunoglobin / prozac ?/Steve _

(http://us.lrd./_ylc=X3oDMTJxaDZsNTFnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkxNTc0BG\

dycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MTY0NQRtc2dJZAMxMDAyN

jYEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE1MTMwMDgxOA--;_ylg=1/SIG=123lc3o2q/**htt

p:///group//message/100266)

Posted by: " stevenhorr " _sonofdelbert@... _

(mailto:sonofdelbert@...?Subject= Re: immunoglobin / prozac ?/Steve)

_stevenhorr _

(stevenhorr)

Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:24 pm (PST)

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. There certainly is a hell

of a lot to digest! I always assumed that whatever was wrong with me

was not simple, as there seemed to be so many variables and all of the

doctors I saw had very few answers. I will continue with the

immunoglobin (although I still know very little about it), get back on

an anti-yeast, mostly organic diet, remain off the prozac (at least

until I can talk to my dr again about it in 2 weeks), and keep reading.

Again, thank you.

Steve

[Guest guest]

The Pfieffer Center. I just wrote a post about it. Also, since my nephew has

it I've done some reading on the subject and it's a factoid I picked up along

the way. Also, being diagnosed? Does that mean testing? Because there's many

things that can mimic Schizophrenia which is turning out to be along the lines

of autism, an extreme imbalance in the bodies chemicals. Good for them that

they are smoke free. Maybe they're in that 5 to 10 percent who don't.

chiefbige <chiefbige@...> wrote: Hi Edy,

What is your source of information which says all schizophrenia

sufferers are smokers? I have known several persons diagnosed with

schizophrenia and none of them were smokers.

>

> Hi folks, Another interesting thing about smoking. 100% of people

with schizophrenia smoke cigarettes. I know this because my nephew

suffers with this and is a heavy smoker so I looked into it. It goes

to some receptor sight or sights in the brain that calm these kids. I

say kids, but I mean in their 20s.

[Guest guest]

One of my closest friends is a non-smoking schizophrenic. He's also doing

quite well, more sane than most people. I will ask him if he ever smoked. I

doubt it.

Helen

>From: Edy Rayfield <edyrayfield@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Re: immunoglobin / prozac ?/Steve

>Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 09:08:00 -0700 (PDT)

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>

>Hi folks, Another interesting thing about smoking. 100% of people with

>schizophrenia smoke cigarettes. I know this because my nephew suffers with

>this and is a heavy smoker so I looked into it. It goes to some receptor

>sight or sights in the brain that calm these kids. I say kids, but I mean

>in their 20s.

>

>kattemayo <kattemayo@...> wrote:

>

>Steve,

>

>Again, you describe a very classic type onset and life with ME/CFS.

>

>Post exertion malaise is a hallmark symptom, distinguishing from depression

>and other conditions...even hitting 2 days later, or lasting 2 days or many

>more.

>

>Including actual decline in IQ, muscle fatigue, feeling toxic, long term

>damage, and all you described.

>

>About Cardiac symptoms...these also are very common, and there is

>interesting work among researchers. You could look on website of ME Society

>of America under Cardiac findings, including Lerner, Peckerman and Cheney.

>

>Also found in CFS are abnormalities of Autonomic system such as POTS and

>NMH, that can effect standing/exertion/heartbeat/cognition.

>

>Dr. Cheney has said in the past that the Aerobic system is damaged, and

>that exercise using the Anerobic system is better advised. I think this is

>like weight lifting for one. It might also be activity in short spurts,

>rest in between, which is best for me.

>It's one form of " pacing " , which is usually good for CFS patients, as

>opposed to pushing. Push/crash is typical for us.

>

>ANother ME/CFS guideline used is " the 50% rule " ...do 50% of what you feel

>like doing, then rest.

>

>another form of exercise is " bouncing " , on a special contraption

>( " Bounce-back " chair, developed at NASA), small trampoline, or a large

>exercise ball.

>

>If Autonomic System or Heart are issues, keeping feet up (when sitting), or

>keep them moving (not standing still) helps.

>

>About the smoking, this is also experienced among some. The relief of CFS

>symptoms in patients has been reported by Klimas, maybe others and

>told to me by Dr. Cheney. (They are 2 recognized CFS Specialists, having

>studied and treated CFS for many years).

>

>{Even an Oncologist told me she has read of smoking benefits in some

>conditions}.

>

>I researched this years ago, because it was my experience. I was a

>non-smoker for 1st 6 or 7 years of CFS, several bedridden, then had

>dramatic relief of physical and cognitive sx. when picking it up.

>Went on and off many times since. Using cigarettes without added chemicals.

>

>{ I have assumption that usual detriments and damage of smoking also occur}

>

>My research uncovered several possibilities. (Another has just been

>added...Inhibiting Phase 1 detox)

>

>I cannot remember all I found but I think these are some;

>Nicotinic receptors; maybe Choline?; MAO-B Dopamine effect (this one is

>from smoking itself, not nicotine alone); raising Blood pressure/volume;

>adrenaline to heart that's got unusual form of heart failure, and others.

>sorry can't be more specific. Dr. Cheney said it is like valium, (in

>addition to being stimulating).

>

>The Nicotine patch has been used for CFS and Alzheimer's cognition.

>

>There is a form of Parkinson's which advances far slower among smokers.

>

>I also needed to understand a very strange thing. I have MCS, but found I

>could stand the pollution in rush hour traffic when smoking and nearly

>incapacitated when not.

>I have heard of this among others with MCS. No one has ever explained this

>to me, but I found an interesting piece of information. In situations of

>carbon monoxide poisoning, persons who smoked were the last to succumb.

>hmmm...

>

>As years advance, of ME/CFS, age, and smoking accumulation (even with years

>off), this becomes a horrific dilemma.

>

>For me, having the least physical and cognitive challenges is the optimal.

>But a luxury, or unacceptable for some.

>

>Smoking and second-hand smoke is completely intolerable for some/most CFS

>patients. (Including me when I'm not doing it...weird).

>

>Patients who have truly benefitted from numerous pharmaceuticals face a

>similar nightmare. (Even when they work)...that of serious long term damage

>and side effects, and IMO, in some cases, life-threatening.

>

>There is a great deal of impressive research on ME/CFS now, involving

>Brain, Heart, Immune System and other.

>One place to look is CoCure archives, under those categories. (non-psych).

>

>On this list are patients ranging from mild, moderate to fairly severe.

>Many with multiple overlapping conditions or complications, and even other

>Primary conditions.

>Ranging from little to alot of financial resources.

>Under the care of CFS-clueless Doctors or up to the top CFS Specialists in

>the world. I've had both and all between.

>

>Plus there are non-patients dedicated to studying and sharing on all of the

>above, every theory and system.

>

>There are long term and newer patients, and wide diversity of treatments

>discussed...both pharmaceutical ( " Western " ) and

>Alternative/Wholistic/Supplements and other management tools.

>

>There are probably many things that can help you. But ME/CFS is *Very

>Complex* and patients respond very differently to any one thing.

>

>Most Specialists and patients use multi-faceted approach, usually

>simultaneously, but also some in a particular order.

>

>Don't worry if it's overwhelming at first.

>Most of us cannot absorb everything on this list. But there's a ton of

>valuable information, and experienced people.

>

>Best wishes,

>

>Katrina

>

>

> >

> > > you should give everyone a run-through of what kinds of physical

> > > problems you're having. That might be a better place to start?

> > >

> > > Welcome again to the group. There are lots of smart people here,

> > and

> > > I hope you find the help you need.

> > >

> > >

> > > in Champaign IL

> >

> >

> > Thanks for the reply, .

> >

> > My symptoms started about seven years ago while in college. I got

> > sick with strep throat, took antibiotics, got it again right away,

> > took other antibiotics, then got a chronic sinus problem (which drs

> > attempted to relieve with more antibiotics and nasal spray) and felt

> > fatigued like never before after that. Since then, I have never been

> > the same, the main symptom being an inability to exercise. Prior to

> > this happening, I was very athletic. Since then, I have tried every

> > form of exercise: light sit-ups, push-ups, light jogs, hiking, yoga,

> > etc. The end result is pretty much always the same. I feel ultra-

> > dizzy right after, and then get progressively worse over the next

> > few hours until I can barely think anymore. Following exercise, I

> > feel really depressed and irritable, physically exhausted, have dry

> > eyes and mouth, get thirsty, have a headache and sometimes a sore

> > throat, feel confused and socially inept, and just need to sleep. My

> > cognitive abilities become severely impaired, and it lasts for up to

> > 2 days. I really miss exercising, so I have been doing my best to

> > get back into it for a long time, but always have the same result no

> > matter how hard or soft the form of exercise. In fact, I have tried

> > to push myself a few times, thinking I would get over that " hump " ,

> > but it only gets worse the harder I push.

> >

> > Oddly enough, I have had brief periods where I've had to take

> > physical labour jobs. After 2 weeks or so I start to cope a little

> > better, but I still can't think during downtime (only sleep!). The

> > really weird part is, if I smoke cigarettes while I'm working a

> > labour job, my symptoms all but disappear. That really stumps me!

> > But I have quit smoking

>and have no desire to go back to it,

> > and no longer work a physical job (I have smoked while not working

> > labour jobs in the past and all the symptoms remained...). I have

> > quit and started smoking many times, and think this somehow fits

> > into the picture, like the cigarettes actually helped my brain to

> > get blood sugar or something. Weird, I know.

> >

> > Anyway, I get colds and flus a lot, have sinus flare-ups following

> > the eating of some foods (namely wheat, dairy, beer), have fairly

> > poor sleeps and lots of headaches, and I seem to have constant

> > stomach problems (gas, bloating, indigestion, constipation, and

> > diarrea). I am otherwise ok, happy, and relatively positive, so long

> > as I don't allow my heart to pound (experience has shown me that as

> > little as 15 minutes of heart-rate-accelerating exercise can lead to

> > as much as 36-48 hours of suffering and mental impairment). Because

> > of this, I've gone from being very athletic and active to having a

> > general aversion to exercise.

> >

> > cheers,

> > Steve

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>