RE: 'degenerated' WBC's/Rich

[Guest guest]

Labs can be so notoriously defective; wouldn't it be worth it to get retested?

Adrienne

'degenerated' WBC's/Rich

Does anyone know what it means if one has degenerated WBC's? I am

assuming that this means that they are damaged. I have had blood tests

come back that the ABC's are so degenerated that a manual diff cannot

be done on them. My WBC count is also very low - 2, where the low end

of the range is 4.

My dr and I checked out the possibility that the speciman might have

been damaged by the lab, thus causing degradation of the speciman, but

this does not look like it could have occurred.

If degenerated WBC's could indicate certain diseases, what other

abnormal lab results should I be looking for that indicate these

diseases? (I have not heard that PWC's have degenerated cells, but have

heard that their WBC count can be low) To me this means that there is

something wrong with the bone marrow. Thanks - leslie

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

This has happened repeatedly on bloodwork, thru different labs, over the

past years.Les

'degenerated' WBC's/Rich

>

>

> Does anyone know what it means if one has degenerated WBC's? I am

> assuming that this means that they are damaged. I have had blood tests

> come back that the ABC's are so degenerated that a manual diff cannot

> be done on them. My WBC count is also very low - 2, where the low end

> of the range is 4.

> My dr and I checked out the possibility that the speciman might have

> been damaged by the lab, thus causing degradation of the speciman, but

> this does not look like it could have occurred.

> If degenerated WBC's could indicate certain diseases, what other

> abnormal lab results should I be looking for that indicate these

> diseases? (I have not heard that PWC's have degenerated cells, but have

> heard that their WBC count can be low) To me this means that there is

> something wrong with the bone marrow. Thanks - leslie

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

> each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

> treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

Lyme can cause this. The Bb spirochetes can actually infect the WBCs

and cause them to degenerate more rapidly. I have seen this with my own

eyes, seen the Bb cyst anomalies in my own WBCs on a high powered,

dark-field live cell microscope. Not many bugs can survive in a WBC.

Sort of says something about the hardiness of the Lyme bug(s).

--Kurt

'degenerated' WBC's/Rich

Does anyone know what it means if one has degenerated WBC's? I am

assuming that this means that they are damaged. I have had blood tests

come back that the ABC's are so degenerated that a manual diff cannot

be done on them. My WBC count is also very low - 2, where the low end

of the range is 4.

My dr and I checked out the possibility that the speciman might have

been damaged by the lab, thus causing degradation of the speciman, but

this does not look like it could have occurred.

If degenerated WBC's could indicate certain diseases, what other

abnormal lab results should I be looking for that indicate these

diseases? (I have not heard that PWC's have degenerated cells, but have

heard that their WBC count can be low) To me this means that there is

something wrong with the bone marrow. Thanks - leslie

[Guest guest]

Hi, Les.

It's hard to know from what you've reported whether the white blood

cells were not properly formed in the bone marrow initially, or

whether they were damaged later, such as by a pathogen like Lyme

spirochetes, as Kurt described. I don't know whether you are in a

state that allows use of the darkfield live cell microscope, but it

might be helpful if you could get a person experienced with that

technique to examine your white cells. Perhaps you could contact

Bradford's Bradford Research Institute in Chula Vista, CA and

find out who near you has one of his microscopes. The phone numbers

are

1-800-227-4473

1-800-227-4458

619-429-8200

Rich

>

> Does anyone know what it means if one has degenerated WBC's? I am

> assuming that this means that they are damaged. I have had blood

tests

> come back that the ABC's are so degenerated that a manual diff

cannot

> be done on them. My WBC count is also very low - 2, where the low

end

> of the range is 4.

> My dr and I checked out the possibility that the speciman might

have

> been damaged by the lab, thus causing degradation of the speciman,

but

> this does not look like it could have occurred.

> If degenerated WBC's could indicate certain diseases, what other

> abnormal lab results should I be looking for that indicate these

> diseases? (I have not heard that PWC's have degenerated cells, but

have

> heard that their WBC count can be low) To me this means that there

is

> something wrong with the bone marrow. Thanks - leslie

>

[Guest guest]

RIch - thank you for the info. (I did have a Lyme test done by Bowen, and

titres were very low - something like 1:4, I think - but perhaps it is

another type of hardy bug that is invading my WBC's.)

In my naivete, I had thought that 'regular' labs could look at cells under a

microcope and see their shape, condition, etc (like the size of them,

etc ) - but I guess they do not examine them in much detail, or are limited

in what they can look at.

I have never heard of darkfiled live cell (is this the same as live cell

analysis, where one can see the actual cell on a slide, and determine its

health?) - I will call R Bradfords Institute and find oiut more info, Thank

you, Les

Re: 'degenerated' WBC's/Rich

> Hi, Les.

>

> It's hard to know from what you've reported whether the white blood

> cells were not properly formed in the bone marrow initially, or

> whether they were damaged later, such as by a pathogen like Lyme

> spirochetes, as Kurt described. I don't know whether you are in a

> state that allows use of the darkfield live cell microscope, but it

> might be helpful if you could get a person experienced with that

> technique to examine your white cells. Perhaps you could contact

> Bradford's Bradford Research Institute in Chula Vista, CA and

> find out who near you has one of his microscopes. The phone numbers

> are

>

> 1-800-227-4473

> 1-800-227-4458

> 619-429-8200

>

> Rich

>

>

>

>>

>> Does anyone know what it means if one has degenerated WBC's? I am

>> assuming that this means that they are damaged. I have had blood

> tests

>> come back that the ABC's are so degenerated that a manual diff

> cannot

>> be done on them. My WBC count is also very low - 2, where the low

> end

>> of the range is 4.

>> My dr and I checked out the possibility that the speciman might

> have

>> been damaged by the lab, thus causing degradation of the speciman,

> but

>> this does not look like it could have occurred.

>> If degenerated WBC's could indicate certain diseases, what other

>> abnormal lab results should I be looking for that indicate these

>> diseases? (I have not heard that PWC's have degenerated cells, but

> have

>> heard that their WBC count can be low) To me this means that there

> is

>> something wrong with the bone marrow. Thanks - leslie

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

I never knew this - thanks for the info!(I did have a Lyme test done by

Bowen, and titres were something like 1:4, which I believe is really low?)

Les

'degenerated' WBC's/Rich

>

> Does anyone know what it means if one has degenerated WBC's? I am

> assuming that this means that they are damaged. I have had blood tests

> come back that the ABC's are so degenerated that a manual diff cannot

> be done on them. My WBC count is also very low - 2, where the low end

> of the range is 4.

> My dr and I checked out the possibility that the speciman might have

> been damaged by the lab, thus causing degradation of the speciman, but

> this does not look like it could have occurred.

> If degenerated WBC's could indicate certain diseases, what other

> abnormal lab results should I be looking for that indicate these

> diseases? (I have not heard that PWC's have degenerated cells, but have

> heard that their WBC count can be low) To me this means that there is

> something wrong with the bone marrow. Thanks - leslie

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Many of us have low WBC although some do not. Low WBC is a sign

of chronic viral infection. I got that info. from the Merck

Manual. High WBC count is indicative of a bacterial infection.

So it is hard for me to beleive that someone w/ a chronic

bacterial infection, including Lyme, could have low WBC count.

I could be wrong and am open to other views as long as they are

backed up by some credible studies.

Mike C.

In , " lmasju " <lmas@...> wrote:

>

> Does anyone know what it means if one has degenerated WBC's? I am

> assuming that this means that they are damaged. I have had blood

tests

> come back that the ABC's are so degenerated that a manual diff

cannot

> be done on them. My WBC count is also very low - 2, where the low

end

> of the range is 4.

> My dr and I checked out the possibility that the speciman might

have

> been damaged by the lab, thus causing degradation of the speciman,

but

> this does not look like it could have occurred.

> If degenerated WBC's could indicate certain diseases, what other

> abnormal lab results should I be looking for that indicate these

> diseases? (I have not heard that PWC's have degenerated cells, but

have

> heard that their WBC count can be low) To me this means that there

is

> something wrong with the bone marrow. Thanks - leslie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Les.

Conventional labs do a blood smear and count the dead cells under a

microscope. They don't keep them wet and look at them live.

Bradford has developed a special microscope that can look at live

cells in several different ways. This technique is controversial.

There have been questions about the interpretation of what is seen

under the microscope. It is a qualitative technique, rather than a

quantititive technique, and it isn't recognized by the conventional

medical establishment. In some states, such as New York, I have

heard that doctors can have their licenses challenged by the state

medical board if they admit that they use this technique for

diagnosis. I think they can use it if they claim it is for

research, though. However, I've sat for some time and watched Dr.

Bradford analyze blood samples of doctors at medical conferences,

and I'm convinced that a great deal can be learned from this

technique if an experienced person is doing it. A lot depends on

the ability of the operator to interpret what he or she is seeing.

Rich

>

> RIch - thank you for the info. (I did have a Lyme test done by

Bowen, and

> titres were very low - something like 1:4, I think - but perhaps

it is

> another type of hardy bug that is invading my WBC's.)

> In my naivete, I had thought that 'regular' labs could look at

cells under a

> microcope and see their shape, condition, etc (like the size of

them,

> etc ) - but I guess they do not examine them in much detail, or

are limited

> in what they can look at.

> I have never heard of darkfiled live cell (is this the same as

live cell

> analysis, where one can see the actual cell on a slide, and

determine its

> health?) - I will call R Bradfords Institute and find oiut more

info, Thank

> you, Les

[Guest guest]

Hi guys, I just wanted to mention that in Santa Cruz where I live we have a

woman who has been doing live cell analysis for decades now. I had her look at

mine about 15 years ago several times and she saw the yeast like crazy. I

haven't been back for a long time, but I imagine she's onto this as well. I

think you guys may have inspired me to make another appointment. At the time

she said she saw things that I don't recollect now. Wish I had paid more

attention!

Edy

rvankonynen <richvank@...> wrote:

Hi, Les.

Conventional labs do a blood smear and count the dead cells under a

microscope. They don't keep them wet and look at them live.

Bradford has developed a special microscope that can look at live

cells in several different ways. This technique is controversial.

There have been questions about the interpretation of what is seen

under the microscope. It is a qualitative technique, rather than a

quantititive technique, and it isn't recognized by the conventional

medical establishment. In some states, such as New York, I have

heard that doctors can have their licenses challenged by the state

medical board if they admit that they use this technique for

diagnosis. I think they can use it if they claim it is for

research, though. However, I've sat for some time and watched Dr.

Bradford analyze blood samples of doctors at medical conferences,

and I'm convinced that a great deal can be learned from this

technique if an experienced person is doing it. A lot depends on

the ability of the operator to interpret what he or she is seeing.

Rich

>

> RIch - thank you for the info. (I did have a Lyme test done by

Bowen, and

> titres were very low - something like 1:4, I think - but perhaps

it is

> another type of hardy bug that is invading my WBC's.)

> In my naivete, I had thought that 'regular' labs could look at

cells under a

> microcope and see their shape, condition, etc (like the size of

them,

> etc ) - but I guess they do not examine them in much detail, or

are limited

> in what they can look at.

> I have never heard of darkfiled live cell (is this the same as

live cell

> analysis, where one can see the actual cell on a slide, and

determine its

> health?) - I will call R Bradfords Institute and find oiut more

info, Thank

> you, Les

[Guest guest]

Oh and I forgot to mention I had another doc peek at my blood cells a couple of

years ago and he let me look, too. My red blood cells were deformed. Not like

sickle cell or anything that radical, just not round, and clumped funny. More

like cucumber shaped.

rvankonynen <richvank@...> wrote: Hi, Les.

Conventional labs do a blood smear and count the dead cells under a

microscope. They don't keep them wet and look at them live.

Bradford has developed a special microscope that can look at live

cells in several different ways. This technique is controversial.

There have been questions about the interpretation of what is seen

under the microscope. It is a qualitative technique, rather than a

quantititive technique, and it isn't recognized by the conventional

medical establishment. In some states, such as New York, I have

heard that doctors can have their licenses challenged by the state

medical board if they admit that they use this technique for

diagnosis. I think they can use it if they claim it is for

research, though. However, I've sat for some time and watched Dr.

Bradford analyze blood samples of doctors at medical conferences,

and I'm convinced that a great deal can be learned from this

technique if an experienced person is doing it. A lot depends on

the ability of the operator to interpret what he or she is seeing.

Rich

>

> RIch - thank you for the info. (I did have a Lyme test done by

Bowen, and

> titres were very low - something like 1:4, I think - but perhaps

it is

> another type of hardy bug that is invading my WBC's.)

> In my naivete, I had thought that 'regular' labs could look at

cells under a

> microcope and see their shape, condition, etc (like the size of

them,

> etc ) - but I guess they do not examine them in much detail, or

are limited

> in what they can look at.

> I have never heard of darkfiled live cell (is this the same as

live cell

> analysis, where one can see the actual cell on a slide, and

determine its

> health?) - I will call R Bradfords Institute and find oiut more

info, Thank

> you, Les

[Guest guest]

Interesting. My WBC tends to be low as well. B cells and NK cells were low

ten years ago, don't know about them now, but WBC has always been low or

just above the bottom of normal level.

Helen

>From: " yakcamp22 " <yakcamp22@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: 'degenerated' WBC's/Rich

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>

>Many of us have low WBC although some do not. Low WBC is a sign

>of chronic viral infection. I got that info. from the Merck

>Manual. High WBC count is indicative of a bacterial infection.

>So it is hard for me to beleive that someone w/ a chronic

>bacterial infection, including Lyme, could have low WBC count.

>I could be wrong and am open to other views as long as they are

>backed up by some credible studies.

>

>Mike C.

>

[Guest guest]

The answer to your question is right here -

" Radiation from mobile phones can severely damage the human immune

system, a scientist has claimed. Biologist Coghill has long

campaigned for health warnings to be attached to mobile phones, which he

has already linked to headaches and memory loss.

His latest research suggests the microwaves generated by mobile phones

may damage the ability of white blood cells to act as the " policemen " of the

body, fighting off infection and disease.

Mr Coghill took white blood cells, known as lymphocytes, from a donor,

keeping them alive with nutritients and exposed them to different electric

fields.

He found that after seven-and-a-half hours, just 13% of the cells exposed

to mobile phone radiation remained intact and able to function, compared

with 70% of cells exposed only to the natural electromagnetic field

produced by the human body. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/194065.stm

Check out how red-blood cells are damaged by microwave/cell phone

radiation in the following German study:

http://www.buergerwelle.de/pdf/cluster.jpg

Is there a connection here? Duh! It really is quite obvious for those with at

least half a brain - preferably the right one (no pun intended). Come on!

STop barking up the wrong tree!

peace,

paul

>

> Does anyone know what it means if one has degenerated WBC's? I am

> assuming that this means that they are damaged. I have had blood tests

> come back that the ABC's are so degenerated that a manual diff cannot

> be done on them. My WBC count is also very low - 2, where the low end

> of the range is 4.

> My dr and I checked out the possibility that the speciman might have

> been damaged by the lab, thus causing degradation of the speciman, but

> this does not look like it could have occurred.

> If degenerated WBC's could indicate certain diseases, what other

> abnormal lab results should I be looking for that indicate these

> diseases? (I have not heard that PWC's have degenerated cells, but have

> heard that their WBC count can be low) To me this means that there is

> something wrong with the bone marrow. Thanks - leslie

>