Re: incidence of illnesses not vaxed for?

[Guest guest]

That's the million dollar question, . There ARE no legitimate

statistics out there to show the rate of disease in the vaxed vs. unvaxed.

Those of us who don't support vaccinating would LOVE to see a nonbiased study

done on the vaxed and unvaxed to show an overall health comparison AND to show

the rate of diseases among them. But of course no one will fund such a study

because they KNOW what the results would be, and it wouldn't look good for the

provaxers and all the corporations who make their millions off of the vax

industry.

When we hear of the " outbreaks " of certain diseases, ie. mumps, measles, etc.

they rarely tell the vaccine status of those who are affected. Certainly they

like to insinuate that it was a nonvaxed person who caused the " outbreak " but

they would never admit it if the vaxed were affected just as much as the

nonvaxed (or more).

We do know that all cases of polio in the U.S. since the 1970's have been

vaccine related.

I read in the obituaries in our Sunday paper this past week of a 2 month old

baby who " died suddenly " last week. I would be willing to bet she was recently

vaccinated. Of course these deaths usually go down in the books as " SIDS " and

rarely as vaccine related, even when the death occurred within days of the

vaccines.

The truth would not look good and be proof that vaccines ARE damaging and ARE

not necessary. So, don't be surprised if you don't find the numbers you're

looking for.

Kay

RE: incidence of illnesses not vaxed for?

On this topic, I am wondering if there are any stats out there that give the

incidence of illness, separated by those vaccinated vs. those not vaxed? In

other words are non vaxed folks really more likely to get sick from these

diseases? Or do they occur just as much in vaxed folks. Similarly rates of

autism, SIDS and other side effects among vaxed vs. non vaxed?

I know I am asking a lot in these murky waters, but would be great if we

could say out of the xxx people who got each disease last year, x% were

vaxed and X% were not.

I haven't found this data anywhere, and I have looked, so thought I would

throw the question out to you wonderful folks.

C

[Guest guest]

I am almost certain my unvaxed son got the measles at 2yrs.old Christmas day two

years ago. I was comparing his symptons to those of the measles as explained in

the Mayo Clinic Family Health Book. He was really miserable, the rash was awful,

but made it through without meds or analgesics; only my undivded love and

attention. His ped was not convinced because there was no outbreak to blame it

on.

Anita

<jljhall@...> wrote:

Hi Group-

Well, I'm sure I am going to open up a can of worms with this post.

I am one of the parents on this list that still can't decide what to

do. (I'm sure there are others of you out there!) I went to my

son's 6 mos. check-up and told the doctor I was considering no more

shots. She informed me that they could no longer treat my kids (I

was not surprised by this) because they present a risk to other kids

in their practice who can not have shots for various reasons (such

as on heart transplant meds was the example she gave). She was not

mean in any way or condescending, I asked her several questions

about vaccines and whether they are really necessary. I did get her

to admit that the chicken pox vaccine is not really needed, but she

says it's the law now so they do it. I am still holding off on all

shots, btw.

Well this got me thinking, and my question to the group is this:

has anyone out there who is non-vax (or has kids who are non-vax)

caught any of the illnesses that are routinely vaccinated for such

as tetanus, whooping cough, mumps, etc? (I'm not talking about

chick pox since this is fairly benign). How about people who are

vaccinated?

Obviously we know there are risks with vaccines, our job as parents

is to weigh those risks against those of the illnesses themselves.

So, when I mentioned to the dr. that no one sees any of these

illnesses anymore, she responded that's because we vax for them.

OK, let me have it!! I would really like to hear from people who

can respond directly to my above question, not just more talk

about how bad vaccines are. I know there are risks with vaccines,

I'm trying to determine the level of risk on the other side. How

does one compare them?

Thanks all,

[Guest guest]

I know several people who have had whooping cough, and

most were vaccinated.

In fact, around where I live, there was an outbreak in

a school, and they went from person to person to find

out where it " originated " - vaxxed kids were passing

it to other vaxxed kids, but they found a family whose

children were not vaxxed, and they took them and said,

" this is what happens when people don't vaccinate. "

They never bothered to check where those kids picked

it up.

I personally know a family whose child died from a

vaccine, one whose child nearly died after his shot

from " SIDS " (although I thought that SIDS by nature

meant the child had died), and one whose child is 80%

deaf due to her vaccinations.

I've met a mother whose kids had the same exact

symptoms as their cousins, with whom they played

frequently. Her kids weren't vaxxed, and the cousins

were. Her kids were diagnosed with whooping cough,

and the cousins with some sort of bronchitis (no

cultures were taken). Some doctors feel that vaccines

are so effective that their patients can't possibly

have THAT disease, so they end up misdiagnosed.

I did read a statistic once that said 50% of the

people who contract tetanus are vaccinated, but I have

no idea if that's accurate.

What bothers me the most about the pro-vaccine side is

that they don't explain anything. They never seem to

address the questions/accusations. It's just

" vaccines are safe and effective. " Over and over.

And then they show scary pictures and stories of

disease damaged children. The fact is, that disease

can damage and kill. But so can vaccines. The CDC

says somewhere on their site that they estimate that

as many as 90% or more of adverse vaccine reactions go

unreported, and that's just by doctors. What about

the parents who don't report reactions to the doctors?

So, then, how accurate does that make their

statistics?

violet~*

--- <jljhall@...> wrote:

> Hi Group-

>

> Well, I'm sure I am going to open up a can of worms

> with this post.

> I am one of the parents on this list that still

> can't decide what to

> do. (I'm sure there are others of you out there!)

> I went to my

> son's 6 mos. check-up and told the doctor I was

> considering no more

> shots. She informed me that they could no longer

> treat my kids (I

> was not surprised by this) because they present a

> risk to other kids

> in their practice who can not have shots for various

> reasons (such

> as on heart transplant meds was the example she

> gave). She was not

> mean in any way or condescending, I asked her

> several questions

> about vaccines and whether they are really

> necessary. I did get her

> to admit that the chicken pox vaccine is not really

> needed, but she

> says it's the law now so they do it. I am still

> holding off on all

> shots, btw.

>

> Well this got me thinking, and my question to the

> group is this:

> has anyone out there who is non-vax (or has kids who

> are non-vax)

> caught any of the illnesses that are routinely

> vaccinated for such

> as tetanus, whooping cough, mumps, etc? (I'm not

> talking about

> chick pox since this is fairly benign). How about

> people who are

> vaccinated?

>

> Obviously we know there are risks with vaccines, our

> job as parents

> is to weigh those risks against those of the

> illnesses themselves.

> So, when I mentioned to the dr. that no one sees any

> of these

> illnesses anymore, she responded that's because we

> vax for them.

>

> OK, let me have it!! I would really like to hear

> from people who

> can respond directly to my above question, not just

> more talk

> about how bad vaccines are. I know there are risks

> with vaccines,

> I'm trying to determine the level of risk on the

> other side. How

> does one compare them?

>

> Thanks all,

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________

- PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.

[Guest guest]

,

the cdc has a great (for me anyway)s ection on measles that talks about the

incidence before the vaccine. I nearly fell over when I started doing the

stats. They created the vaccine for 450 deaths per year with 3-4 MILLION cases.

I hardly think that 450 deaths per year (at 3.5million, the incidence for death

was 0.0001% - unless I'm a complete idiot and can't use a calculator -

currently, that is quite possible LOL) for a disease that is supposed to be so

devastating. Do I feel for those parents, OMG, YES! I'm not sure at any given

time I would call 0.0001% of anything devestating.

With that said, Liam had whooping cough when he was 14 months old. I would not

call it anymore devestating than chicken pox at that age BUT ... he was unvaxed,

and still 95% breastfed, and the only dairy he was getting at that age was the

occassional cheese product. So, he was healthy as a horse.

I think where they get off calling childhood diseases " devestating " is when the

child has underlying issues to begin with. Chicken pox in a child with severe

asthma can be devastating (I keep spelling it differently and it still looks

wrong). But both of my big boys, fully vaccinated to 12 with mild asthma made

it through chicken pox with no cmoplications. I know a little guy who ended upw

ith staph all around his mouth 2ndary to c-pox. ICK! But I don't know anything

about the conditions of his previous health, sanitation etc....

That's just my 4 am ramblings!

in IL

[Guest guest]

Hi

When you look at UK info it states effectiveness rates, say 70-95%,

indeed with measles etc the whole reason for pre school boosters as

1st dose isn't even very good, 10% admitted failure rate. ontop of

that i know so many vaxed people that feel lucky to have only had a

mild case of such and such, ie vaccine failure.

In the vaccine group I'm in not very many of the unvaxed are getting

anything, probably less so than the general vaxed population I'd

say, as we have more input of health and treatment options/knowledge.

My daughters 28 months and she's not had anything despite being told

of escalating epidemics, they even wanted due to poor area for her

to have the tb at birth which is not even on the vaccine general

schedule here (UK). She hasn't even caught chickenpox, yet she goes

to several playgroups with vaxed and unvaxed kids and is daily out

with me around city centre shopping or whatever, plus family.

I wasnt vaccinated myself against whooping cough (doctor wasnt

vaccinating any babies with it unuseually due to his own concerns)

and did get it, i also had other things that i was vaxed for. All

passed without issue as did with most people my age who were kids in

the 70s/80s. Thing is with tetanus, if you caught it you can have a

vax at the time, same with most things theres treatment options -

severe cases are only useually from leaving it fester on and

complications. Mumps is infact fairly benign as well, it's just

reported otherwise.

If you're going to get it when vaxed, especially if the unvaxed

aren't getting it, what does that say about those peoples immune

systems, what has the vaccine done to help them -other than impart a

load of animal cells and toxins to hinder its natural job.

How I've compared them is to take them individually, most general

cases of illness are complication free, there are no huge death

rates here whether vaxed or unvaxed, standard of living and access

to good quality treatment/information as necessary. In the west

really a lot of issues and scerios dont apply. being part vaxed and

on a lesser schedule than we have now, I am quite happy with it, it

might be nice to say a vaccine would prevent this and that but it

doesnt, and it brings up other problems more so than not being vaxed

imo. You gain better, truer immunity that helps your body grow,

long term. My daughters in better health overall than her friends

at nursery so in actual fact I'd say unvaxed kids of conscious

parents have the best deal all round, before and even if something

did happen.

This is the situ in the UK, also mental about vaccinations

officially and through other parents fear, though not a legal

requirement.

bw

& Amber

[Guest guest]

I have a Family Medical Guide published in 1982. It's description of chicken

pox is as follows: " This mild infectious disease is caused by the herpes zoster

virus... " and " Chicken pox is a mild though irritating disease. "

I DO remember when the CP vax first came out and all of a sudden chicken pox was

some horrible disease. There was a comment made by either the producer of the

vaccine, or someone equally as high up on the " importance " scale, that the

vaccine was produced primarily so mother's wouldn't have to miss so much work to

stay home with their child who had cp!!!! This was before my days of knowledge

in the dangers of vaccines, but even then a big red flag rose in my mind that

all of a sudden they made a " normal " childhood illness out to be some horrible

disease, JUST in time to push the new vaccine. And what a terrible reason to

come up with a new way to inject kids with another vaccine... just so Mom didn't

have to miss work!!!

Kay

**********************

Re: incidence of illnesses not vaxed for?

I think where they get off calling childhood diseases " devestating " is when

the child has underlying issues to begin with. Chicken pox in a child with

severe asthma can be devastating (I keep spelling it differently and it still

looks wrong). But both of my big boys, fully vaccinated to 12 with mild asthma

made it through chicken pox with no cmoplications. I know a little guy who

ended upw ith staph all around his mouth 2ndary to c-pox. ICK! But I don't

know anything about the conditions of his previous health, sanitation etc....

in IL

[Guest guest]

hi jenny,

> Well, I'm sure I am going to open up a can of worms

> with this post.

nah, this question pops up quite regularly, LOL.

> has anyone out there who is non-vax (or has kids who

> are non-vax)

> caught any of the illnesses that are routinely

> vaccinated for such

> as tetanus, whooping cough, mumps, etc?

i know of one case of measles in an unvaccinated and

generally healthy child, it was no worse than

chickenpox, he sailed through it within a week. his

bout of measles was follows by an incredible jump

developmentally. i know of many cases of measles in

fully vaccinated children, most of them shortly after

being vaccinated with MMR.

> Obviously we know there are risks with vaccines, our

> job as parents

> is to weigh those risks against those of the

> illnesses themselves.

the only way to actually be able to weigh the risks of

vaccines versus the illnesses themselves, or the risk

of vaccines versus the benefit of vaccines, is to

actually find any proof whatsoever that these vaccines

carry any benefits at all. if you look at the package

inserts and read the ingredients, it should be enough

to put you off having your child injected, i think. if

you read the potential side effects, you'll definitely

be put off. if you then go on and try finding studies

of vaccinated versus unvaccinated children, you'll

start wondering why you can't find any. then go and

look at several " new " diseases that have popped up

over the years and compare the symptoms of those with

the symptoms of 'vaccine preventable' diseases. you

will find that a lot of diseases were renamed, just so

the governments can cover up that vaccines cause a lot

of diseases.

> So, when I mentioned to the dr. that no one sees any

> of these

> illnesses anymore, she responded that's because we

> vax for them.

if someone told me such an answer i would tell them

that i cannot take their word for granted and would

ask for proof. you will find you might have to wait

forever for that proof.

> OK, let me have it!! I would really like to hear

> from people who

> can respond directly to my above question, not just

> more talk

> about how bad vaccines are. I know there are risks

> with vaccines,

> I'm trying to determine the level of risk on the

> other side. How does one compare them?

how can one compare them? on the one hand you have a

liquid that contains a lot of known poisons (mercury,

formaldehyde, anti-freeze to name but a few), foreign

dna (not only from aborted fetal tissue but also from

animals), foreign proteins, which is injected directly

into a human's blood stream, bypassing the body's

first-line defense mechanism. on the other hand you

have a whole child with an intact immune system. it's

not really possible to compare the two, is it?

we all have been dumbed down, brainwashed to believe

the stuff the governments, and even more so medicos

tell us, and for some people it's more difficult than

for others to get beyond that imposed mindset that

what someone else says is right. it isn't. just like

you don't take my words to be true, you shouldn't take

an " authority figure's " words as truth.

:-)

claudia

'Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it.' - Bobby

Kennedy

http://www.livejournal.com/users/lady_karelia

__________________________________

- PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.

[Guest guest]

and i bet you anything that the deaths quoted by the

CDC were not caused by the disease itself, but by the

treatment with tylenol and the like...

interesting, the figures you quote for measles. they

did a similar thing with hib... before the hib vax

came out, hib was not a notifiable disease, they made

it one, and deaths caused by hib soared of course. i

bet most of them were caused by the vax...

claudia

--- tracy1970@... wrote:

> ,

>

> the cdc has a great (for me anyway)s ection on

> measles that talks about the incidence before the

> vaccine. I nearly fell over when I started doing

> the stats. They created the vaccine for 450 deaths

> per year with 3-4 MILLION cases. I hardly think

> that 450 deaths per year (at 3.5million, the

> incidence for death was 0.0001% - unless I'm a

> complete idiot and can't use a calculator -

> currently, that is quite possible LOL) for a disease

> that is supposed to be so devastating. Do I feel

> for those parents, OMG, YES! I'm not sure at any

> given time I would call 0.0001% of anything

> devestating.

>

> With that said, Liam had whooping cough when he was

> 14 months old. I would not call it anymore

> devestating than chicken pox at that age BUT ... he

> was unvaxed, and still 95% breastfed, and the only

> dairy he was getting at that age was the occassional

> cheese product. So, he was healthy as a horse.

>

> I think where they get off calling childhood

> diseases " devestating " is when the child has

> underlying issues to begin with. Chicken pox in a

> child with severe asthma can be devastating (I keep

> spelling it differently and it still looks wrong).

> But both of my big boys, fully vaccinated to 12

> with mild asthma made it through chicken pox with no

> cmoplications. I know a little guy who ended upw

> ith staph all around his mouth 2ndary to c-pox.

> ICK! But I don't know anything about the conditions

> of his previous health, sanitation etc....

>

> That's just my 4 am ramblings!

>

> in IL

>

>

>

>

'Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it.' - Bobby

Kennedy

http://www.livejournal.com/users/lady_karelia

__________________________________

- PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.

[Guest guest]

Clearly I know so little about this topic but could not a blood sample have

been taken from your son to prove what illness it was?

Message: 22

Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:30:18 -0700 (PDT)

From: Anita Durney <mydurney@...>

Subject: Re: incidence of illnesses not vaxed for?

I am almost certain my unvaxed son got the measles at 2yrs.old

Christmas day two years ago. I was comparing his symptons to those of the

measles as explained in the Mayo Clinic Family Health Book. He was really

miserable, the rash was awful, but made it through without meds or

analgesics; only my undivded love and attention. His ped was not convinced

because there was no outbreak to blame it on.

Anita

Be who you are, and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and

those who matter don't mind. - Dr Seuss

---------------------------------

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