Re: Why did I refuse MMR?

[Guest guest]

Give me a naturally occuring, " old-fashioned " disease over artificially-induced

autism any

day!

cheers

Naomi

NSW, Australia

[Guest guest]

You took the words right out of my mouth, Sue. I agree 110%!

I'm sure you didn't come to this conclusion over night. I know I didn't. It

takes getting out there and becoming informed. Knowledge goes a long way in

putting fears to rest.

My kids are 13 and 15 now. How I wish I would have known 15 years ago what I

know now! It would have totally changed how I reared them from day 1.

I can't praise homeopathy enough. It has made a monumental difference in my

life and the lives of my children. How much more so if we had started down this

road years ago.

And there would never have been a vaccination needle touch my children's bodies

if I had known then what I know now.

Kay

********************************

Maybe I am just fortunate - for me, there is no decision to be made.

Despite medical and media propaganda, I have no fear of these childhood

illnesses like some people do. I had them as a child, knew no-one who had

problems with them as a child - although I respect that some people did and

do. There are risks from having any illness - a cold can turn to meningitis

in someone who is susceptible. Now I am training as a homoeopath, I have

total confidence in its ability to treat any complications of these

childhood illnesses that might arise, I have total confidence in my own

homoeopath, and I have confidence in my ability to be able to spot any

crises that might be starting.

I do fear vaccinations and I believe sincerely with all of my heart that a

child will *always* be damaged to a greater or lesser degree by a vaccine.

I do not believe they bring about true immunity, rather a sub-clinical state

which has the potential to be reactivated at any time. I do believe they

damage the natural function of the immune system, rendering it vulnerable to

just about any pathological state known to mankind, although I also believe

that homoeopathy can put the damage right most of the time.

In a healthy child, nourished and nurtured by good food and lots of love, I

don't fear any illness. I am terrified of what vaccinations can do to that

healthy child.

This isn't even an opinion - it's a fervent belief.

Love, light and peace,

Sue

[Guest guest]

--- Sheri Bergen <tallchick1966@...> wrote:

> Could you fill me in on the pool and ice cream part?

> You lost me there.

read here:

http://www.whale.to/v/sandler.html

you'll find sandler's book there, on-line.

:-)

claudia

=====

http://www.himalayasalt.co.uk

http://www.he-ed.org.uk

" We shall no longer hang on to the tails of public opinion or to a non- existent

authority on matters utterly unknown and strange. We shall gradually become

experts ourselves in the mastery of the knowledge of the Future. " Wilhelm Reich

___________________________________________________________

ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun!

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[Guest guest]

Hi Jane, )

I think you are a very strong lady and I have a great deal of respect for

you. Your children are very lucky to have you for their mum! I think you

are now seeing the benefits of not vaxing P - as you say, she has taken a

day to get over what the other children have taken a week to overcome. The

b/f will have helped of course, although I know you b/f the others too, but

the combination of b/f and not vaxing seems very powerful.

You will feel this confident one day, Jane. It is mostly becoming so deeply

involved in homoeopathy that has helped me overcome my uncertainty over

things like whooping cough. I never feared measles, mumps or rubella,

because I firmly believe they invented they *deadliness* to fit the vaccine,

and as such have made them one huge marketing exercise, but I did used to be

a bit concerned about pertussis and tetanus. Now I am confident that there

is something very positive I can do in the event of these hitting, I no

longer have fear of them, and am more and more confident in our decision.

You will be too, Jane. Honest! )

Love, light and peace,

Sue

" It is not unfair to conclude that medicine is the only branch of science

that has based its structure on opinions and suppositions rather than on

laws and principles. " - Vithoulkas, " The Science of Homoeopathy " .

MMRcontactnetworkUK - putting non-vaccinating

UK parents looking for naturally acquired immunity for their children in

touch with each other

Imperfectly_Natural_Parents_UK - for all

imperfectly natural parents everywhere!

> I hope one day I can feel as confident as you, I know I have a

> stronger feeling towards vaccinations now and can give good reasons

> to health professionals on why I will not immusnise my children any

> longer.

> I do believe a good healthy loving life is what children need. Its

> just now and then little doubts creep in. My dd who is one has had

> no vaccinations, so far she has had no ailments, unlike her brothers

> and sister had by this age. She had a temp and cold the other week

> along with her brothers and sister, it only lasted the day the

> others lingered on for about a week. I am sure it is because she

> has a better immune system.

> jane

[Guest guest]

See more info on other possible causes of polio

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/polio.htm

DDT

Sugar

Other vaccines

Tonsillectomies

At 10:22 AM 02/18/2005 -0800, you wrote:

>

>I'm sure you are correct. Knowledge is indeed power.

>

>Could you fill me in on the pool and ice cream part? You lost me there.

>Thx.

>Sheri B.

>

> <claudiaayaz@...> wrote:

>the only reason you fear those diseases is because you

>are not yet armed with knowledge. find out about the

>diseases, then it'll be much easier to accept the fact

>that a normally healthy child will sail through them

>without problems. it is children with already

>compromised immune systems (due to vaccinations as

>well as lack of decent diet) who are more likely to

>experience complications and those who are treated

>with fever suppressants and the like, NEVER a

>generally healthy child. my advice to you would be to

>read everything you find out about proper treatment of

>such childhood diseases and to find out IF any

>treatment is needed at all. if you do a search on the

>name of Sandler, you'll learn that it wasn't the

>swimming pools that triggered polio, it hit children

>who went swimming, then got out to consume ice cream!

>the more you know about all these diseases, the less

>you will fear them.

>:-)

>claudia

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

Oh, give me a break! I could understand feeling guilty if her child

died or had permanent effects from getting mumps, but the child just

had a regular case of the mumps and recovered completely. Sure sounds

like vaccine propaganda to me.

> _______________________________________________

>

> Why did I refuse MMR?

>

> Sophie Radice made a decision not to vaccinate her daughter. But

when Ella

> caught mumps aged 10, she had to face the consequences. And oh, the

shame of

> it...

> 15 February 2005

>

> Two months ago, my 10-year-old daughter woke up and said that she

felt like

> she had been punched very hard in the jaw. I am of the " let's get

up and

> have breakfast and see how you feel after that " school of

parenting, rather

> than a " you just stay in bed and I will bring you a little

something on a

> tray " type. But when I saw that one side of her face was swollen,

giving my

> daughter the look of a lop-sided hamster, I agreed that it was

probably best

> to get her off to the doctor as soon as possible.

>

> The GP tried hard not to be judgmental, but I felt a wave of shame

when she

> told me that Ella probably had mumps. She saw from our notes that

we had not

> given her the MMR triple booster and I explained, slightly

defensively, that

> we had taken a decision not to give her the vaccine. Her older

brother had

> contracted a nasty case of measles a couple of weeks after his MMR,

and

> although such a reaction is rare, after extensive debate my partner

and I

> felt that it was best not to risk the same problem with his sister.

>

> Although the vaccination was only introduced in 1988, mumps has

already been

> banished to the past as firmly as whooping cough or rickets. Of

course,

> those of us who decide not to give their child MMR and then don't

go on to

> have all three vaccines separately are relying on the fact that

other

> parents will continue with the vaccine. Now I realise that opting

out has

> consequences.

>

> Our doctor gently reminded me that there was something of a mumps

epidemic

> in Britain, although for the moment it is confined mostly to the

university

> student population who are too old to have had their MMR. However,

there is

> no reason why a 10-year old who has not been protected against the

disease

> should not get it, particularly if she has been in contact with

this age

> group.

>

> We were told to inform the school, which we duly did, and I also

felt

> obliged to ring and confess to the parents of other children in her

class

> before the letter went round telling everyone of my laxity -

although

> thankfully they didn't name and shame. Having been told that mumps

is most

> contagious from two days before symptoms begin to six days after

they end, I

> also thought of Ella's gym class teacher, a pregnant friend and a

friend

> with premature twins whom we had visited the week before. I tried to

> pre-empt their anger by apologising so profusely that they couldn't

get a

> word in edgeways. My mother, usually so supportive of my parenting,

was

> appalled that I had not given Ella her MMR, something I hoped I

wouldn't

> have to confess to. I had to agree with her when she said: " What

parents

> would give in some parts of the world for the chance of that

vaccine. "

>

> Mumps is caused by a virus that usually spreads through saliva. The

virus

> can be passed to other people by sneezing, coughing or using the

same

> drinking glass as the infected person. The incubation period for

mumps can

> last between 12 and 25 days, but the average is 16 to 18 days.

Mumps can

> infect many parts of the body, especially the parotid salivary

glands, which

> are found towards the back of each cheek in the area between the

ear and

> jaw. There is no treatment except bed rest and trying to lower the

high

> temperature that results from the illness. The most serious

repercussions

> involve possible infection of other organs. In 20 to 30 per cent of

the

> cases of adult men with mumps, the disease infects the testicles,

causing

> swelling (orchitis) and running the risk of sterility. Serious

complications

> can lead to encephalitis (inflammation of the brain), meningitis

> (inflammation of the lining of the brain and spinal cord) and

deafness.

> Before the MMR vaccine was introduced, mumps was the commonest

cause of

> viral meningitis. Mumps can also cause women problems with their

ovaries and

> spontaneous abortion early in pregnancy.

>

> My doctor wasn't exaggerating when she described the increase in

mumps cases

> as an epidemic, either, according to Dr Ramsay, who monitors

cases of

> mumps for the Health Protection Agency. " The term 'outbreak'

implies that

> mumps has occurred in localised areas, whereas cases of mumps have

risen

> right across England and Wales, " she says. In the first four weeks

of 2005

> there were 4,891 notifications for mumps; in the same period last

year,

> there were only 358 cases. Suspected cases are at their highest for

15

> years - and, after laboratory testing, between 60 and 75 per cent of

> notifications are being confirmed as genuine cases. While two-

thirds of

> cases are in patients between the ages of 15 and 24, children whose

parents

> have refused the MMR vaccination, often because of fears over the

connection

> with autism, are also vulnerable to infection.

>

> Dr Ramsay explains that teenagers and young adults are getting

mumps because

> these age groups tend to live closely together, particularly in

> universities. " We believe the number of cases have increased more

steeply in

> recent weeks because many of the young adults born between 1981 and

1989 are

> now at university. This age group was too old to be offered the MMR

vaccine,

> so many will not have received any mumps-containing vaccine,

although some

> may have received one dose of MMR vaccine. As the susceptible group

is quite

> large, we do not expect the number of cases of mumps to reduce in

the near

> future. "

>

> Even those who were young enough to have had the first lot of MMR

vaccine

> may not have followed through with a second. In 1996, it became

clear that

> it wasn't enough for people to have one jab to protect them and

that it was

> important to have two.

>

> As concerns about a possible epidemic grow, vaccination programmes

have been

> set up in some schools and university towns, advising students to

have an

> MMR jab. The response has been good. At Kingston University, where

there

> have been 21 suspected cases of the viral infection, 548

vaccinations have

> been carried out in the last few weeks.

>

> The daughter of a friend of mine who is in the most susceptible age

group

> asked if I could find out if she could have a separate " mumps "

vaccine

> rather than having the MMR vaccine. After all, her mother paid for

separate

> measles and rubella vaccines for her sister. A spokesperson for the

Health

> Protection Agency said that it was not possible to do this because

there

> isn't a single mumps vaccine licensed for use in the UK.

>

> I received a letter from my daughter's primary school saying that

it was

> going to start an MMR vaccination programme. Was it just because of

Ella? As

> far as I know, there weren't any other cases in our area. I still

have no

> idea how she caught mumps.

>

> She was ill for a week, ate little and drank lots of water. I gave

her

> paracetamol to keep her temperature down. Ella found the school's

letter,

> which her father and I were still considering, and started to fill

in the

> attached form herself. " Please, Mum. Come on, I don't want to get

any more

> of these horrible, old-fashioned illnesses. "

>

> That's us decided, then. After a decade of pondering, I think we

might have

> learnt our lesson.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sue,

It's true, vaccine companies have probably put fear into these

illness's, I remember my sister having measles when we were younger,

no-one seemed to be worried, only me been annoyed because I wanted

them!! I don't think chicken pox is bad, five of my children have

had it with no complications, so why do we need a vax for this. I

am sure we will see in the media that yet another childhood illness

is going to made out to be a killer, and can only be protected by

this new vax!

Jane

> Hi Jane, )

>

> I think you are a very strong lady and I have a great deal of

respect for

> you. Your children are very lucky to have you for their mum! I

think you

> are now seeing the benefits of not vaxing P - as you say, she has

taken a

> day to get over what the other children have taken a week to

overcome. The

> b/f will have helped of course, although I know you b/f the others

too, but

> the combination of b/f and not vaxing seems very powerful.

>

> You will feel this confident one day, Jane. It is mostly becoming

so deeply

> involved in homoeopathy that has helped me overcome my uncertainty

over

> things like whooping cough. I never feared measles, mumps or

rubella,

> because I firmly believe they invented they *deadliness* to fit

the vaccine,

> and as such have made them one huge marketing exercise, but I did

used to be

> a bit concerned about pertussis and tetanus. Now I am confident

that there

> is something very positive I can do in the event of these hitting,

I no

> longer have fear of them, and am more and more confident in our

decision.

>

> You will be too, Jane. Honest! )

>

> Love, light and peace,

>

> Sue

>

> " It is not unfair to conclude that medicine is the only branch of

science

> that has based its structure on opinions and suppositions rather

than on

> laws and principles. " - Vithoulkas, " The Science of

Homoeopathy " .

>

> MMRcontactnetworkUK - putting non-

vaccinating

> UK parents looking for naturally acquired immunity for their

children in

> touch with each other

> Imperfectly_Natural_Parents_UK - for

all

> imperfectly natural parents everywhere!

>

> > I hope one day I can feel as confident as you, I know I have a

> > stronger feeling towards vaccinations now and can give good

reasons

> > to health professionals on why I will not immusnise my children

any

> > longer.

> > I do believe a good healthy loving life is what children need.

Its

> > just now and then little doubts creep in. My dd who is one has

had

> > no vaccinations, so far she has had no ailments, unlike her

brothers

> > and sister had by this age. She had a temp and cold the other

week

> > along with her brothers and sister, it only lasted the day the

> > others lingered on for about a week. I am sure it is because she

> > has a better immune system.

> > jane

[Guest guest]

THIS IS DEFINITELY vaccine PROPAGANDA

Don't buy it!

Sheri

At 06:19 AM 02/19/2005 -0000, you wrote:

>

>

>

>Oh, give me a break! I could understand feeling guilty if her child

>died or had permanent effects from getting mumps, but the child just

>had a regular case of the mumps and recovered completely. Sure sounds

>like vaccine propaganda to me.

>> _______________________________________________

>>

>> Why did I refuse MMR?

>>

>> Sophie Radice made a decision not to vaccinate her daughter. But

>when Ella

>> caught mumps aged 10, she had to face the consequences. And oh, the

>shame of

>> it...

>> 15 February 2005

>>

>> Two months ago, my 10-year-old daughter woke up and said that she

>felt like

>> she had been punched very hard in the jaw. I am of the " let's get

>up and

>> have breakfast and see how you feel after that " school of

>parenting, rather

>> than a " you just stay in bed and I will bring you a little

>something on a

>> tray " type. But when I saw that one side of her face was swollen,

>giving my

>> daughter the look of a lop-sided hamster, I agreed that it was

>probably best

>> to get her off to the doctor as soon as possible.

>>

>> The GP tried hard not to be judgmental, but I felt a wave of shame

>when she

>> told me that Ella probably had mumps. She saw from our notes that

>we had not

>> given her the MMR triple booster and I explained, slightly

>defensively, that

>> we had taken a decision not to give her the vaccine. Her older

>brother had

>> contracted a nasty case of measles a couple of weeks after his MMR,

>and

>> although such a reaction is rare, after extensive debate my partner

>and I

>> felt that it was best not to risk the same problem with his sister.

>>

>> Although the vaccination was only introduced in 1988, mumps has

>already been

>> banished to the past as firmly as whooping cough or rickets. Of

>course,

>> those of us who decide not to give their child MMR and then don't

>go on to

>> have all three vaccines separately are relying on the fact that

>other

>> parents will continue with the vaccine. Now I realise that opting

>out has

>> consequences.

>>

>> Our doctor gently reminded me that there was something of a mumps

>epidemic

>> in Britain, although for the moment it is confined mostly to the

>university

>> student population who are too old to have had their MMR. However,

>there is

>> no reason why a 10-year old who has not been protected against the

>disease

>> should not get it, particularly if she has been in contact with

>this age

>> group.

>>

>> We were told to inform the school, which we duly did, and I also

>felt

>> obliged to ring and confess to the parents of other children in her

>class

>> before the letter went round telling everyone of my laxity -

>although

>> thankfully they didn't name and shame. Having been told that mumps

>is most

>> contagious from two days before symptoms begin to six days after

>they end, I

>> also thought of Ella's gym class teacher, a pregnant friend and a

>friend

>> with premature twins whom we had visited the week before. I tried to

>> pre-empt their anger by apologising so profusely that they couldn't

>get a

>> word in edgeways. My mother, usually so supportive of my parenting,

>was

>> appalled that I had not given Ella her MMR, something I hoped I

>wouldn't

>> have to confess to. I had to agree with her when she said: " What

>parents

>> would give in some parts of the world for the chance of that

>vaccine. "

>>

>> Mumps is caused by a virus that usually spreads through saliva. The

>virus

>> can be passed to other people by sneezing, coughing or using the

>same

>> drinking glass as the infected person. The incubation period for

>mumps can

>> last between 12 and 25 days, but the average is 16 to 18 days.

>Mumps can

>> infect many parts of the body, especially the parotid salivary

>glands, which

>> are found towards the back of each cheek in the area between the

>ear and

>> jaw. There is no treatment except bed rest and trying to lower the

>high

>> temperature that results from the illness. The most serious

>repercussions

>> involve possible infection of other organs. In 20 to 30 per cent of

>the

>> cases of adult men with mumps, the disease infects the testicles,

>causing

>> swelling (orchitis) and running the risk of sterility. Serious

>complications

>> can lead to encephalitis (inflammation of the brain), meningitis

>> (inflammation of the lining of the brain and spinal cord) and

>deafness.

>> Before the MMR vaccine was introduced, mumps was the commonest

>cause of

>> viral meningitis. Mumps can also cause women problems with their

>ovaries and

>> spontaneous abortion early in pregnancy.

>>

>> My doctor wasn't exaggerating when she described the increase in

>mumps cases

>> as an epidemic, either, according to Dr Ramsay, who monitors

>cases of

>> mumps for the Health Protection Agency. " The term 'outbreak'

>implies that

>> mumps has occurred in localised areas, whereas cases of mumps have

>risen

>> right across England and Wales, " she says. In the first four weeks

>of 2005

>> there were 4,891 notifications for mumps; in the same period last

>year,

>> there were only 358 cases. Suspected cases are at their highest for

>15

>> years - and, after laboratory testing, between 60 and 75 per cent of

>> notifications are being confirmed as genuine cases. While two-

>thirds of

>> cases are in patients between the ages of 15 and 24, children whose

>parents

>> have refused the MMR vaccination, often because of fears over the

>connection

>> with autism, are also vulnerable to infection.

>>

>> Dr Ramsay explains that teenagers and young adults are getting

>mumps because

>> these age groups tend to live closely together, particularly in

>> universities. " We believe the number of cases have increased more

>steeply in

>> recent weeks because many of the young adults born between 1981 and

>1989 are

>> now at university. This age group was too old to be offered the MMR

>vaccine,

>> so many will not have received any mumps-containing vaccine,

>although some

>> may have received one dose of MMR vaccine. As the susceptible group

>is quite

>> large, we do not expect the number of cases of mumps to reduce in

>the near

>> future. "

>>

>> Even those who were young enough to have had the first lot of MMR

>vaccine

>> may not have followed through with a second. In 1996, it became

>clear that

>> it wasn't enough for people to have one jab to protect them and

>that it was

>> important to have two.

>>

>> As concerns about a possible epidemic grow, vaccination programmes

>have been

>> set up in some schools and university towns, advising students to

>have an

>> MMR jab. The response has been good. At Kingston University, where

>there

>> have been 21 suspected cases of the viral infection, 548

>vaccinations have

>> been carried out in the last few weeks.

>>

>> The daughter of a friend of mine who is in the most susceptible age

>group

>> asked if I could find out if she could have a separate " mumps "

>vaccine

>> rather than having the MMR vaccine. After all, her mother paid for

>separate

>> measles and rubella vaccines for her sister. A spokesperson for the

>Health

>> Protection Agency said that it was not possible to do this because

>there

>> isn't a single mumps vaccine licensed for use in the UK.

>>

>> I received a letter from my daughter's primary school saying that

>it was

>> going to start an MMR vaccination programme. Was it just because of

>Ella? As

>> far as I know, there weren't any other cases in our area. I still

>have no

>> idea how she caught mumps.

>>

>> She was ill for a week, ate little and drank lots of water. I gave

>her

>> paracetamol to keep her temperature down. Ella found the school's

>letter,

>> which her father and I were still considering, and started to fill

>in the

>> attached form herself. " Please, Mum. Come on, I don't want to get

>any more

>> of these horrible, old-fashioned illnesses. "

>>

>> That's us decided, then. After a decade of pondering, I think we

>might have

>> learnt our lesson.

>

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

she probably got it off a vaxed kid as well to add insult to injury.

Cath

In Vaccinations , " janedajohnson "

<janedajohnson@y...> wrote:

>

>

> Thanks Sue,

>

> It's true, vaccine companies have probably put fear into these

> illness's, I remember my sister having measles when we were

younger,

> no-one seemed to be worried, only me been annoyed because I wanted

> them!! I don't think chicken pox is bad, five of my children have

> had it with no complications, so why do we need a vax for this. I

> am sure we will see in the media that yet another childhood

illness

> is going to made out to be a killer, and can only be protected by

> this new vax!

>

> Jane