Re: thank you and questions

[Guest guest]

<<it made me think how

many cot deaths are really due to vaccinations. Has any research

been done on this, if so where can I find it.>>

I have this same question. I am also curious as to why the inserts for

vaccinations have tons more immunogenicity/serology study results than

safety results. Seems that the safety information is collected only for

a few days-but immunogenicity/serology is collected for weeks? Why is

that? Is that substantially different than other drugs?

I am also curious if anyone has any links that give details on the CDC's

'conflict' of interest WRT vaccination recommendations.

<< I was told by my GP that vaccinated

people/children were protecting my children from these killer

diseases, and I was putting my baby at a very big risk. even though

I told him I felt the immunisation was a bigger risk, he shook his

head as though I was just a stupid ill-informed mother. hence the

reason joining the group.>>

I am also looking for support and information. When I mention that I am

strongly considering not vaccinating, people treat me as if I am being

intentionally neglectful. They get very emotional and very avid about

it. I feel very isolated. Even in 'non vax' communities, I feel

isolated because I am still researching-I guess nobody likes their

position questioned.being a questioning person is not very popular.I

have not been so lucky in being assertive

[Guest guest]

and Jane, I understand how you both feel, I too lack the

confidence to state my case against vaccination when pressed. Even

though I have no doubts whatsoever that I have made the right

decision, I still find it difficult to justify myself to others. I

am not good at reciting statistics or remembering details under

pressure, even though I have done the research. I often feel like I

shouldn't have to justify myself to anyone and that surely anyone

just looking at my children can see that they are extremely healthy

and happy. I get tired of my children being treated like lepers

because they aren't vaccinated as if they pose some threat to

everyone else's immunised children - I always say - " if you believe

vaccinations work then your child should be safe and not under any

threat from my child " , dealing with doctors is not always so simple,

and I avoid it whenever I can - which is not so hard because my

children aren't vaccinated - they rarely get sick! I always laugh

at the question on all the standard forms that asks you for the name

of your family doctor, as we have never had one. I did read in

someone's post recently, not sure if it was this group or another

but they had a good line for a doctor - something like " are you

prepared to take full responsibility if my child has an adverse

reaction to this vaccine? " Maybe that is a good one to remember, but

even if they said yes which I doubt - I would still not go ahead...

Anyway, I'm not much help, but I do understand how you feel, I guess

confidence comes with knowledge, maybe its a good idea to take some

literature with you when you go to see the doctor?

Good Luck Deb

>

> I have had so many issues and thoughts on vaccinations, it was

only

> on joining this group that I feel confident in my beliefs that

> vaccinations do a lot more harm than we are told.

>

> After reading the post about the baby that died 16 years ago,

(this

> brought tears to my eyes,) due to vaccinations, it made me think

how

> many cot deaths are really due to vaccinations. Has any research

> been done on this, if so where can I find it.

>

> another question, when health officials, ask why you don't

vaccinate

> whats the best way to answer this without been made to feel that

you

> don't care about your children. I was told by my GP that

vaccinated

> people/children were protecting my children from these killer

> diseases, and I was putting my baby at a very big risk. even

though

> I told him I felt the immunisation was a bigger risk, he shook his

> head as though I was just a stupid ill-informed mother. hence the

> reason joining the group.

>

> Tomorrow I have to take my 3 year old to see her specialist, each

> tme I see him he asks if she has had her MMR, I always say I am

> waiting a bit longer, his reply, I should not delay. I wish I

could

> be confident, but these people always belittle me, has anyone got

> any advice on how i can be more assertive.

>

> thank you

> jane

[Guest guest]

I used to go to the health dept. and some of the nurses used to try to talk me

into vaccinationg or poisoning my daughter and finish vaccinating my son. I went

in with a few pages of vaccine info. They did not mention it again when they saw

I had reading material. They did not see it before those times because I hid it

from them and inserted them in the magazines in the waiting room. As far as

doctors go, you just have to be firm and say you will not do anything that makes

you feel uncomfortable. You could also ask them to take responsibility if you

choose to vaccinate. Heck, they have forms at http://www.vaclib.org that you

could use. They will not sign these forms but it may get them off your back.

As for the general public when they start thinking badly of you, another way

of dealing with them is to give them a list of vaccine ingredients and have some

info available for them on what these ingredients are capable of.

They may not believe what they read and be in denial but they shut up in

general. There is a ton of info available.

I have never had anyone criticize me in my face for not vaxxing. If anyone

gets concerned or just plain rude about your kids vaccine status just hand them

some literature and perhaps some links to some websites. This really does shut

them up and it is a great opportunity to educate others on the dangers of

vaccines. Either way they understand more about where you are coming from.

I have an autistic nephew and nobody says anything to me accept , " I dont

blame you " , when I tell them one autistic child in the family is plenty.

April

I have had some hard warnings that if I dont vaccinate my child he would die

and I dont deserve to have children. This was from an irate nurse who did not

like the fact that her other scare tactics did not work. She outright lied to me

that the vaccine ingredients that I mentioned were not in the vaccines etc. By

the end of the phone call, I could tell she was shaking in anger. I did not say

anything rude to her but I did not back down. She was very easy as she did not

know hardly anything regarding vaccines.

[Guest guest]

lol I dont fill in the name of the family doctor either for the kids or myself.

We dont have a doctor either.I guess the fact that my nearly 3 yr old that has

not been vaccinated has not been sick enough to need a doctor could have an

inpact on her not having a doctor, lol. I would seek out something other than

them anyway.

I am thinking of taking her to the doctor in the next few months because she

isnt talking much yet but I honestly dont feel anything is wrong. I am going to

give her some more time. If time doesnt help I am going to try to get her to as

speech therapist.

My son is almost fully vaxxed but he doesnt need to see the doctor often either.

He needed to see them maybe 2 times.

I just take care of them when they are sick and they are not in daycare. I guess

I am just very lucky but I think part of the reason they are healthy is because

I avoid the doctors.

I get tired of my children being treated like lepers

because they aren't vaccinated as if they pose some threat to

everyone else's immunised children - I always say - " if you believe

vaccinations work then your child should be safe and not under any

threat from my child " , dealing with doctors is not always so simple,

and I avoid it whenever I can - which is not so hard because my

children aren't vaccinated - they rarely get sick! I always laugh

at the question on all the standard forms that asks you for the name

of your family doctor, as we have never had one.

[Guest guest]

I am like ya'll in the fact that I am not very assertive when it

comes to talking to drs. and nurses. My oldest son, who is vaccinated

up to age 4, goes to a specialist every 3-4 months. Every time they

ask routinely if he is current and each time I always say yes. I

know, I am lying but they just move on to the next question. I know I

would be opening up a huge can of worms if I ever said no. I also

agree with the fact that they stay healthier NOT going to the dr.

Back in the " old " days when I took them for every little thing they

would always get sicker the day or so after I took them. That is a

good idea about caring around some literature. That would be a

shocker to some people to actually have that on hand!

-- In Vaccinations , wings <wingsout@t...> wrote:

> lol I dont fill in the name of the family doctor either for the

kids or myself. We dont have a doctor either.I guess the fact that my

nearly 3 yr old that has not been vaccinated has not been sick enough

to need a doctor could have an inpact on her not having a doctor,

lol. I would seek out something other than them anyway.

> I am thinking of taking her to the doctor in the next few months

because she isnt talking much yet but I honestly dont feel anything

is wrong. I am going to give her some more time. If time doesnt help

I am going to try to get her to as speech therapist.

>

> My son is almost fully vaxxed but he doesnt need to see the doctor

often either. He needed to see them maybe 2 times.

> I just take care of them when they are sick and they are not in

this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

<<I have had so many issues and thoughts on vaccinations, it was only on

joining this group that I feel confident in my beliefs that

vaccinations do a lot more harm than we are told. >>

Yay! :-) Welcome to reality. ;-)

<<it made me think how many cot deaths are really due to vaccinations.

Has any research been done on this, if so where can I find it.>>

This is extremely difficult to study, they are rarely reported

accurately by coroners and medical examiners. The deaths are usually

blamed on something else, like SIDS. :-/ If those were actually

reported accurately I would hope that more of the public would realize

what a crock vaccines are.

<<another question, when health officials, ask why you don't vaccinate

whats the best way to answer this without been made to feel that you

don't care about your children.>>

I usually say something to the effect that I feel the risks outweigh the

benefits. It's ambiguous enough that they have a hard time trying to

figure out exactly what angle to attack from and it gives some of them

the idea that I have researched it enough to know what I'm talking

about. Naturally, there are still those that will try to argue with me.

:-(

<<I was told by my GP that vaccinated people/children were protecting my

children from these killer diseases, and I was putting my baby at a very

big risk. even though I told him I felt the immunisation was a bigger

risk, he shook his head as though I was just a stupid ill-informed

mother.>>

Those are the ones that I feel very sorry for, right after I fire them

and find a new doctor. :-( Think of how many vaccines he's given his

own children, how many people he's convinced to get them.

<<Tomorrow I have to take my 3 year old to see her specialist, each tme

I see him he asks if she has had her MMR, I always say I am waiting a

bit longer, his reply, I should not delay. I wish I could be confident,

but these people always belittle me, has anyone got any advice on how i

can be more assertive.>>

What is the specialist for? We see a few of those too. :-( On being

assertive, you need to get in touch with that momma bear inside of you.

;-) You just have to do it and say, " I've decided not to get the

vaccine for my child. " If he tried to argue with you, the best thing

you can say is, " This is not the time nor the place to have this

discussion and I would appreciate it if you didn't bring it up again. "

Or something to that effect. You will need to wear your leather skin

too, just in case. Remember we are all here with you, you aren't alone,

even though it may feel like it when you are trapped in the doctor's

office.

Ohio

My auctions at eBay - http://tinyurl.com/53lys

)0(~~~)0(~~~)0(

Mom to Brittany, born 8/31/93, dx'd-IDDM 5/28/01; , born 6/28/97;

and Shayna, born 6/1/00.

Vaccine free since 1999! See our site and get more vaccine info at

http://www.loonatics-fringe.com

For Ohio specific Vaccine Info - http://groups.msn.com/OhioVaxInfo/

[Guest guest]

GREAT ADVICE

At 01:31 PM 11/22/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>

><<I have had so many issues and thoughts on vaccinations, it was only on

>joining this group that I feel confident in my beliefs that

>vaccinations do a lot more harm than we are told. >>

>

>Yay! :-) Welcome to reality. ;-)

>

><<it made me think how many cot deaths are really due to vaccinations.

>Has any research been done on this, if so where can I find it.>>

>

>This is extremely difficult to study, they are rarely reported

>accurately by coroners and medical examiners. The deaths are usually

>blamed on something else, like SIDS. :-/ If those were actually

>reported accurately I would hope that more of the public would realize

>what a crock vaccines are.

>

><<another question, when health officials, ask why you don't vaccinate

>whats the best way to answer this without been made to feel that you

>don't care about your children.>>

>

>I usually say something to the effect that I feel the risks outweigh the

>benefits. It's ambiguous enough that they have a hard time trying to

>figure out exactly what angle to attack from and it gives some of them

>the idea that I have researched it enough to know what I'm talking

>about. Naturally, there are still those that will try to argue with me.

>:-(

>

><<I was told by my GP that vaccinated people/children were protecting my

>children from these killer diseases, and I was putting my baby at a very

>big risk. even though I told him I felt the immunisation was a bigger

>risk, he shook his head as though I was just a stupid ill-informed

>mother.>>

>

>Those are the ones that I feel very sorry for, right after I fire them

>and find a new doctor. :-( Think of how many vaccines he's given his

>own children, how many people he's convinced to get them.

>

><<Tomorrow I have to take my 3 year old to see her specialist, each tme

>I see him he asks if she has had her MMR, I always say I am waiting a

>bit longer, his reply, I should not delay. I wish I could be confident,

>but these people always belittle me, has anyone got any advice on how i

>can be more assertive.>>

>

>What is the specialist for? We see a few of those too. :-( On being

>assertive, you need to get in touch with that momma bear inside of you.

>;-) You just have to do it and say, " I've decided not to get the

>vaccine for my child. " If he tried to argue with you, the best thing

>you can say is, " This is not the time nor the place to have this

>discussion and I would appreciate it if you didn't bring it up again. "

>Or something to that effect. You will need to wear your leather skin

>too, just in case. Remember we are all here with you, you aren't alone,

>even though it may feel like it when you are trapped in the doctor's

>office.

>

>

>Ohio

>My auctions at eBay - http://tinyurl.com/53lys

>)0(~~~)0(~~~)0(

>Mom to Brittany, born 8/31/93, dx'd-IDDM 5/28/01; , born 6/28/97;

>and Shayna, born 6/1/00.

>Vaccine free since 1999! See our site and get more vaccine info at

>http://www.loonatics-fringe.com

>For Ohio specific Vaccine Info - http://groups.msn.com/OhioVaxInfo/

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If you decide to not vaccinate, then you will need an exemption. Then just

say to the doctor -my child has a religious (or philosophical) exemption

from vaccines and hand the doctor a copy for their records.

Re: thank you and questions

>

>

> and Jane, I understand how you both feel, I too lack the

> confidence to state my case against vaccination when pressed. Even

> though I have no doubts whatsoever that I have made the right

> decision, I still find it difficult to justify myself to others. I

> am not good at reciting statistics or remembering details under

> pressure, even though I have done the research. I often feel like I

> shouldn't have to justify myself to anyone and that surely anyone

> just looking at my children can see that they are extremely healthy

> and happy. I get tired of my children being treated like lepers

> because they aren't vaccinated as if they pose some threat to

> everyone else's immunised children - I always say - " if you believe

> vaccinations work then your child should be safe and not under any

> threat from my child " , dealing with doctors is not always so simple,

> and I avoid it whenever I can - which is not so hard because my

> children aren't vaccinated - they rarely get sick! I always laugh

> at the question on all the standard forms that asks you for the name

> of your family doctor, as we have never had one. I did read in

> someone's post recently, not sure if it was this group or another

> but they had a good line for a doctor - something like " are you

> prepared to take full responsibility if my child has an adverse

> reaction to this vaccine? " Maybe that is a good one to remember, but

> even if they said yes which I doubt - I would still not go ahead...

> Anyway, I'm not much help, but I do understand how you feel, I guess

> confidence comes with knowledge, maybe its a good idea to take some

> literature with you when you go to see the doctor?

>

> Good Luck Deb

>

>

> >

> > I have had so many issues and thoughts on vaccinations, it was

> only

> > on joining this group that I feel confident in my beliefs that

> > vaccinations do a lot more harm than we are told.

> >

> > After reading the post about the baby that died 16 years ago,

> (this

> > brought tears to my eyes,) due to vaccinations, it made me think

> how

> > many cot deaths are really due to vaccinations. Has any research

> > been done on this, if so where can I find it.

> >

> > another question, when health officials, ask why you don't

> vaccinate

> > whats the best way to answer this without been made to feel that

> you

> > don't care about your children. I was told by my GP that

> vaccinated

> > people/children were protecting my children from these killer

> > diseases, and I was putting my baby at a very big risk. even

> though

> > I told him I felt the immunisation was a bigger risk, he shook his

> > head as though I was just a stupid ill-informed mother. hence the

> > reason joining the group.

> >

> > Tomorrow I have to take my 3 year old to see her specialist, each

> > tme I see him he asks if she has had her MMR, I always say I am

> > waiting a bit longer, his reply, I should not delay. I wish I

> could

> > be confident, but these people always belittle me, has anyone got

> > any advice on how i can be more assertive.

> >

> > thank you

> > jane

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jane

I'd think it unlikely you'd findd much on sids and vaccines as

noones interested in funding it. sids etc is usually non vaccine

attributed in official reports, a bit to often imo. JABS might have

some data as they deal with damages issues.

About health officials, you need to get into the mind set that you

dont have to explin, defend, justify, educate or feel inferior to

their personal or officially dictated opinions. With that attitude,

it is almodt them asking you to consider their opinion, a role

reversal to which you might reply that you are currently

investigating all options and will contact them if you need any

further advice. persistant harasment further to this can be

reported and sometimes with bullies you have to be a bit tougher to

get the message accross, otherwse it will continue.

I informed everyone officially and have next to no gp contact as we

are not sick, so theres no real issue. it's now been so long as

well that any discussion is more difficult for them as we've gone

past the baby stage and we're obviously doing ok-not an anxious new

parent -so i imagine now they tend to not watse their time and focus

on someone easier to convince.

If your gp thinks you dont care, really is it the end of the world?

I'd rather they thought whatever than know i was doing the wrong

thing and have their support. if you are unhappy with your gp then

change them. You don't need a reason.

I think sometimes the polite approach just gives people the wrong

impression, that you are not informed and want to go ahead, so it

would be best to be a bit more definate in your answer and i would

say statement orientated-not getting into discussions where you will

crack up and go back to the maybe talk. perhaps you can say

something like, we've reviewed everything now and have come to a

decision, if we need any further advice we'll be in contact. if

they push it say it's a non vaxing decision and that you dont feel

the need to discuss it this time or are pushed for time or need your

partner there or reangle the conversation to the issue at hand and

change the subject. Yan say you've already informed them or the

health authority. I hink pretty much they'll give up after that.

Theres plenty of non vaxers, part vaxers/delayed vaxers around and

you need to remember why you're doing this, your childs continued

health, and to protect that, see anything as a threat to it. That

should give you some confidence.

Professionals are used to taking a hard line, they need to, or

sometimes its their personality or the more polite reaction of the

patient or that theyve just had a bad day. if you come back on it

or avoid it i dont really think you're offending them at all.

bw

A(unvaxed dd 18ms)