Re: feedback regarding the Hitler issue

[Guest guest]

One person wrote to me and expressed some concerns.

I see there may have been a misunderstanding about some thigns I have

posted. So I will just put some excerpts here.

>>>>>> " The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost

duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation. It will

preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been

built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality,

and the family as the basis of national life. "

>Adolph Hitler, My New World Order, Proclamation to the German Nation at

>Berlin, February 1, 1933<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

>

>>So, while I agree with and appreciate all of your info on immunizations,

I am writing you to object to the recent political agenda that >>has been

coming into my email box from you. I especially object to you taking

quotes from Hitler and trying to portray Bible->>Believing Christians as

Hitler followers. Everything that is good and true can be made bad and

corrupted by an evil doer. That does >>not make the good and true

thing/belief wrong, it makes the evil doer wrong.

That is not at all what I am doing. I am showing you that the same words

that come out of Bush's mouth are the ones that' came out of

Hitler's mouth and Goebels mouth. You make of it what you wish. Everyone

at the time who was a Christian believed in Goebels and Hitler. I

encourage you to look at this issue deeply. The powers that be can fool

all of us.

These people (all of them for decades now) have taken sincere Christians

and used them and made them believe that they are the same as they are.

They are not and you may want to look at your antichrist information. I

was raised the same as you.

>

>It appears that while you and I can agree on the fact that immunizations

are a danger to our children and that children do not belong >to the state

but to the family (at least I think that is what I have read in your

posts), we cannot agree on the humanist vs. Christian >worldview debate

and/or politics. I base my belief on children belonging to the family in

Scripture. I wonder what you base your >belief on if you do not believe in

the Bible? This would be an example of " borrowing " from the Christian

Worldview.

That is fine to base your view on the scripture. That is not the issue

here. The issue is people USING you and pretending to be Christian and

they are not. They are pure evil, just as Hitler and Goebels were. That

is the issue.

>

>So, since I'm the bad-guy in your eyes with my Christian worldview AND I

believe in the dangers of immunizations, does that make the belief in the

dangers of immunizations a bad thing to believe in? That is the straw-man

argument that you are using when you quote Hitler on his " Christian "

beliefs and then make his " Christian " words evil. The MAN was evil. The

words he chose to use do not match his life. They were chosen to fool others.

>

We know Hitler was not a Christian. We know Goebels was not a Christian.

By their works you shall know them.

We know what Bush and many others say and we see their other works and it

is not congruent with Christ's teachings.

>Therefore, please do not equate his words to my words or my beliefs or my

life, or any other Christian's words, beliefs or life. Hitler was NOT a

Christian. He USED Christianity to further his own cause, not God's. The

Scripture says, " There are many who will call me Lord, Lord and I will say

to them 'Depart from me for I never knew you.' "

Yes, and I agree totally. And I would suggest you LOOK VERY hard at who is

fooling you the same as Hitler fooled others.

That is my purpose here.

>

>There are evil-doers in the Humanist and Atheist Camps too. Your

hypothesis can be reversed, you know.

Of course there are. I am trying to help all of you look behind all of

this. Learn from history. Learn their tactics. Learn how they use us.

Learn their agenda and they will DO ANYTHING to get it. ALL OF THEM -

Kerry, Bush, Clinton, Reagan, and all those around them.

I posted it to show how the world was fooled before by these evil beings

and we are being fooled right now in 2004.

Try to look at this a little differently and see where I am coming from. I

am not here criticizing true Christians only those who are using you just

as Hitler & Goebels did.

One of my questoins was about Leo Strauss. He purposefully trained his

pupils (Wolfowitz, Perle, Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc) to USE those who are

religious, NOT being religious himself. He purposely taught them to

promote the myth of good vs evil and to use those of the Christian faith in

this effort and their concerted effort to do this came under Reagan.

That is what I'm trying to teach everyone.

Again, THat is NOT at all what I was pointing out.

Everyone has to step outside of their comfort zones and belief systems and

examine every person who is in control. I know I have had to and continue

to have to question everything.

I hope that is clearer.

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

Again, I thank you for making me think more, hmmm, I wonder if that is a good

thing. Anyway, I went out looking for more information and ended up at

BushWatch.com, which is a pretty good site, I found this quote from Bush there

and it really freaked me out because of all of the Hitler stuff you have sent:

" If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as

I'm the dictator. "

-- W. Bush, 12.18.00

" They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country or our people.

And neither do we. "

W. Bush

Re: feedback regarding the Hitler issue

One person wrote to me and expressed some concerns.

I see there may have been a misunderstanding about some thigns I have

posted. So I will just put some excerpts here.

>>>>>> " The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost

duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation. It will

preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been

built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality,

and the family as the basis of national life. "

>Adolph Hitler, My New World Order, Proclamation to the German Nation at

>Berlin, February 1, 1933<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

>

>>So, while I agree with and appreciate all of your info on immunizations,

I am writing you to object to the recent political agenda that >>has been

coming into my email box from you. I especially object to you taking

quotes from Hitler and trying to portray Bible->>Believing Christians as

Hitler followers. Everything that is good and true can be made bad and

corrupted by an evil doer. That does >>not make the good and true

thing/belief wrong, it makes the evil doer wrong.

That is not at all what I am doing. I am showing you that the same words

that come out of Bush's mouth are the ones that' came out of

Hitler's mouth and Goebels mouth. You make of it what you wish. Everyone

at the time who was a Christian believed in Goebels and Hitler. I

encourage you to look at this issue deeply. The powers that be can fool

all of us.

These people (all of them for decades now) have taken sincere Christians

and used them and made them believe that they are the same as they are.

They are not and you may want to look at your antichrist information. I

was raised the same as you.

>

>It appears that while you and I can agree on the fact that immunizations

are a danger to our children and that children do not belong >to the state

but to the family (at least I think that is what I have read in your

posts), we cannot agree on the humanist vs. Christian >worldview debate

and/or politics. I base my belief on children belonging to the family in

Scripture. I wonder what you base your >belief on if you do not believe in

the Bible? This would be an example of " borrowing " from the Christian

Worldview.

That is fine to base your view on the scripture. That is not the issue

here. The issue is people USING you and pretending to be Christian and

they are not. They are pure evil, just as Hitler and Goebels were. That

is the issue.

>

>So, since I'm the bad-guy in your eyes with my Christian worldview AND I

believe in the dangers of immunizations, does that make the belief in the

dangers of immunizations a bad thing to believe in? That is the straw-man

argument that you are using when you quote Hitler on his " Christian "

beliefs and then make his " Christian " words evil. The MAN was evil. The

words he chose to use do not match his life. They were chosen to fool others.

>

We know Hitler was not a Christian. We know Goebels was not a Christian.

By their works you shall know them.

We know what Bush and many others say and we see their other works and it

is not congruent with Christ's teachings.

>Therefore, please do not equate his words to my words or my beliefs or my

life, or any other Christian's words, beliefs or life. Hitler was NOT a

Christian. He USED Christianity to further his own cause, not God's. The

Scripture says, " There are many who will call me Lord, Lord and I will say

to them 'Depart from me for I never knew you.' "

Yes, and I agree totally. And I would suggest you LOOK VERY hard at who is

fooling you the same as Hitler fooled others.

That is my purpose here.

>

>There are evil-doers in the Humanist and Atheist Camps too. Your

hypothesis can be reversed, you know.

Of course there are. I am trying to help all of you look behind all of

this. Learn from history. Learn their tactics. Learn how they use us.

Learn their agenda and they will DO ANYTHING to get it. ALL OF THEM -

Kerry, Bush, Clinton, Reagan, and all those around them.

I posted it to show how the world was fooled before by these evil beings

and we are being fooled right now in 2004.

Try to look at this a little differently and see where I am coming from. I

am not here criticizing true Christians only those who are using you just

as Hitler & Goebels did.

One of my questoins was about Leo Strauss. He purposefully trained his

pupils (Wolfowitz, Perle, Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc) to USE those who are

religious, NOT being religious himself. He purposely taught them to

promote the myth of good vs evil and to use those of the Christian faith in

this effort and their concerted effort to do this came under Reagan.

That is what I'm trying to teach everyone.

Again, THat is NOT at all what I was pointing out.

Everyone has to step outside of their comfort zones and belief systems and

examine every person who is in control. I know I have had to and continue

to have to question everything.

I hope that is clearer.

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

We agreed before to not bring religion into our immunizations discussions. It

does happen again though, because I believe that because we are spiritual beings

as well as physical and all things that occur have a spiritual aspect in some

way, we have to address it. I know that Sheri is not saying that those who view

themselves as Christians (as I do) are equal to the " wolves in sheeps clothing "

that are manipulating and deceiving Christians in our country. It is most

likely that the Christians who support them will be the most harmed by their

agendas. We are to seek the truth in all things and NOT be deceived, as we have

been warned not to be by the God we believe in. We also are told to watch out

for each other, which is what I am trying to do when I bring out facts about our

" Christian " leaders that most Chrisitans I know and love do not want to see.

Carlson

[Guest guest]

>

>

>The way I see it is, we had two crappy choices!!!!

>

Too true!

>One that supported

>the killing of innocent fetuses and one that didn't

>

Or maybe, more accurately, one who supported the killing of innocent

fetuses and one who supported the killing of thousands of innocent

people, including our own soldiers! Hmm...

--

Reverend Breezy s - Facilitator, Blissful Hearth School

Lady Lasairíona of Creavanore - Seneschal, Shire of Hrafnsfjordr, Oertha, West

{{Whats right is not always popular;

Whats popular is not always right.}}

~None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.~

-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[Guest guest]

Very well put!

Donna

> We agreed before to not bring religion into our immunizations

discussions. It does happen again though, because I believe that

because we are spiritual beings as well as physical and all things

that occur have a spiritual aspect in some way, we have to address

it. I know that Sheri is not saying that those who view themselves

as Christians (as I do) are equal to the " wolves in sheeps clothing "

that are manipulating and deceiving Christians in our country.

[Guest guest]

<<<That is not at all what I am doing. I am

showing you that the same words

that come out of Bush's mouth are the ones

that' came out of

Hitler's mouth and Goebels mouth. You make of it

what you wish. Everyone

at the time who was a Christian believed in

Goebels and Hitler. I

encourage you to look at this issue deeply. The

powers that be can fool

all of us.>>>>

I am a Christian, and you know Sheri, as you've

probably already concluded, you can't tell the

christians that believe Bush anything different.

I've tried and they just don't hear it. They are

totally propagandized on this issue. People think

Satan is out fishing or golfing on Sunday

mornings; nope he's sittin' in churches all over

the world leading the christians to hell.

[Guest guest]

> <<<That is not at all what I am doing. I am

> showing you that the same words

> that come out of Bush's mouth are the ones

> that' came out of

> Hitler's mouth and Goebels mouth. You make of it

> what you wish. Everyone

> at the time who was a Christian believed in

> Goebels and Hitler. I

> encourage you to look at this issue deeply. The

> powers that be can fool

> all of us.>>>>

>

>

>

> I am a Christian, and you know Sheri, as you've

> probably already concluded, you can't tell the

> christians that believe Bush anything different.

> I've tried and they just don't hear it. They are

> totally propagandized on this issue. People think

> Satan is out fishing or golfing on Sunday

> mornings; nope he's sittin' in churches all over

> the world leading the christians to hell.

I am a christian too, I can not figure out why some are so " blinded "

when it comes to Bush, Its very scarry.

Donna

[Guest guest]

At 01:26 PM 11/11/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>

><<<That is not at all what I am doing. I am

>showing you that the same words

>that come out of Bush's mouth are the ones

>that' came out of

>Hitler's mouth and Goebels mouth. You make of it

>what you wish. Everyone

>at the time who was a Christian believed in

>Goebels and Hitler. I

>encourage you to look at this issue deeply. The

>powers that be can fool

>all of us.>>>>

>

>

>

>I am a Christian, and you know Sheri, as you've

>probably already concluded, you can't tell the

>christians that believe Bush anything different.

>I've tried and they just don't hear it. They are

>totally propagandized on this issue. People think

>Satan is out fishing or golfing on Sunday

>mornings; nope he's sittin' in churches all over

>the world leading the christians to hell.

>

>

Yes, I hear you

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

What is being reported is that morals and values is what won Bush the

election. I really think this is a religious/political subject, and

I'm afraid it could turn really ugly, or push some of the new members

on this list away. When they start reading this stuff, they will say

maybe these people are really lunatics on the fringe!

The way I see it is, we had two crappy choices!!!! One that supported

the killing of innocent fetuses and one that didn't. Sorry, but when

you are talking Christians you have to take this issue first. Now,

I'm sure no one wants to get into a pro-life, pro-choice religious

debate on a vaccination list.

Only my .02!

> > <<<That is not at all what I am doing. I am

> > showing you that the same words

> > that come out of Bush's mouth are the ones

> > that' came out of

> > Hitler's mouth and Goebels mouth. You make of it

> > what you wish. Everyone

> > at the time who was a Christian believed in

> > Goebels and Hitler. I

> > encourage you to look at this issue deeply. The

> > powers that be can fool

> > all of us.>>>>

> >

> >

> >

> > I am a Christian, and you know Sheri, as you've

> > probably already concluded, you can't tell the

> > christians that believe Bush anything different.

> > I've tried and they just don't hear it. They are

> > totally propagandized on this issue. People think

> > Satan is out fishing or golfing on Sunday

> > mornings; nope he's sittin' in churches all over

> > the world leading the christians to hell.

>

>

>

>

> I am a christian too, I can not figure out why some are

so " blinded "

> when it comes to Bush, Its very scarry.

>

> Donna

[Guest guest]

Speaking of abortions, Does anyone know why they are not keeping

track of National abortion statitsics since 2000?

Donna

> >

> >

> >The way I see it is, we had two crappy choices!!!!

> >

> Too true!

>

> >One that supported

> >the killing of innocent fetuses and one that didn't

> >

> Or maybe, more accurately, one who supported the killing of

innocent

> fetuses and one who supported the killing of thousands of innocent

> people, including our own soldiers! Hmm...

>

> --

> Reverend Breezy s - Facilitator, Blissful Hearth School

> Lady Lasairíona of Creavanore - Seneschal, Shire of Hrafnsfjordr,

Oertha, West

>

> {{Whats right is not always popular;

> Whats popular is not always right.}}

>

> ~None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe

they are free.~

> -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[Guest guest]

Nope, but just one further issue - 100,000 + Iraqis and 1200 US & UK and

other soldiers are lives to but somehow that doesn't even get discussed.

YES, 2 crappy choices

Everyone has GOT to look further at what is behind all of this and NO,

there is NOT one issue to vote on, sorry to say.

Sheri

At 07:09 PM 11/11/2004 -0000, you wrote:

>

>

>What is being reported is that morals and values is what won Bush the

>election. I really think this is a religious/political subject, and

>I'm afraid it could turn really ugly, or push some of the new members

>on this list away. When they start reading this stuff, they will say

>maybe these people are really lunatics on the fringe!

>

>The way I see it is, we had two crappy choices!!!! One that supported

>the killing of innocent fetuses and one that didn't. Sorry, but when

>you are talking Christians you have to take this issue first. Now,

>I'm sure no one wants to get into a pro-life, pro-choice religious

>debate on a vaccination list.

>

>Only my .02!

>

>

>

>

>> > <<<That is not at all what I am doing. I am

>> > showing you that the same words

>> > that come out of Bush's mouth are the ones

>> > that' came out of

>> > Hitler's mouth and Goebels mouth. You make of it

>> > what you wish. Everyone

>> > at the time who was a Christian believed in

>> > Goebels and Hitler. I

>> > encourage you to look at this issue deeply. The

>> > powers that be can fool

>> > all of us.>>>>

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > I am a Christian, and you know Sheri, as you've

>> > probably already concluded, you can't tell the

>> > christians that believe Bush anything different.

>> > I've tried and they just don't hear it. They are

>> > totally propagandized on this issue. People think

>> > Satan is out fishing or golfing on Sunday

>> > mornings; nope he's sittin' in churches all over

>> > the world leading the christians to hell.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> I am a christian too, I can not figure out why some are

>so " blinded "

>> when it comes to Bush, Its very scarry.

>>

>> Donna

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 10:27 AM 11/10/2004 -0900, you wrote:

>

>>

>>

>>The way I see it is, we had two crappy choices!!!!

>>

>Too true!

>

>>One that supported

>>the killing of innocent fetuses and one that didn't

>>

>Or maybe, more accurately, one who supported the killing of innocent

>fetuses and one who supported the killing of thousands of innocent

>people, including our own soldiers! Hmm...

>

>--

>Reverend Breezy s - Facilitator, Blissful Hearth School

>Lady Lasairíona of Creavanore - Seneschal, Shire of Hrafnsfjordr, Oertha,

West

>

>{{Whats right is not always popular;

>Whats popular is not always right.}}

>

>~None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are

free.~

> -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Wrote my response before I read yours exactly

and wanted to add - if Hitler or Milosivec or Stalin or Lening was running

against Kerry and Hitler opposed abortion - you would vote for Hitler or

the others just because of the abortion issue? They all say what is

politically expedient. It has nothing to do with Bush's personal beliefs

on this issue......................but they want you to think so.

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

That is the issue that got the older American vote in the bible belt,

and midwest. They brought them out in droves. Don't forget these

older Americans have been through many wars, and have seen a lot of

death. That is the vote that got Bush elected. The point I was trying

to make.

> >

> >

> >What is being reported is that morals and values is what won Bush

the

> >election. I really think this is a religious/political subject,

and

> >I'm afraid it could turn really ugly, or push some of the new

members

> >on this list away. When they start reading this stuff, they will

say

> >maybe these people are really lunatics on the fringe!

> >

> >The way I see it is, we had two crappy choices!!!! One that

supported

> >the killing of innocent fetuses and one that didn't. Sorry, but

when

> >you are talking Christians you have to take this issue first. Now,

> >I'm sure no one wants to get into a pro-life, pro-choice religious

> >debate on a vaccination list.

> >

> >Only my .02!

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>

>

>but don't try and push your beliefs onto other women who don't share them and

want to have the choice to do with THEIR bodies what they will

>

That's just the problem- that person inside you is NOT your body! And

I'm a big opinionated jerk, I know it, but if you want to kill your

kids, well...you deserve what happens to you as a result! Making it safe

and legal is sickening to an unthinkable degree. Either it's ok to kill

people or it isn't. Just because that person is physically dependent for

its survival on its mother (as are all children, born or unborn),

doesn't mean that it should have any less of a right to live than its mom.

--

Reverend Breezy s - Facilitator, Blissful Hearth School

Lady Lasairíona of Creavanore - Seneschal, Shire of Hrafnsfjordr, Oertha, West

{{Whats right is not always popular;

Whats popular is not always right.}}

~None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.~

-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to

stand by our President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but

is morally treasonable to the American public. "

-Theodore Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

>Nope, but just one further issue - 100,000 + Iraqis and 1200 US & UK and

>other soldiers are lives to but somehow that doesn't even get discussed.

>YES, 2 crappy choices

By my following comment, I'm not implying I am 100% behind the Iraq War (I

think we should be putting most of our efforts into finding Bin Laden)....

But anyway, just for clarification on your above statement -- BUSH is not

killing Iraqis, our TROOPS are (if those men believed it was an unjust

cause there would be huge numbers of them going AWOL) , and of those 100,000

+ Iraqis you mention that have been killed, they are predominately fighting,

resisting men, mainly insurgents, seeking to maintain the Sadamm Hussein

regime -- they do not want freedom for Iraqis!.....

There is a lot of convoluted thinking going on here on this forum. We need

to evaluate things through a careful perspective. War is always going to

result in casualties -- and, unfortunately, often a minor (very minor!)

portion are civilians, but they are not who our troops are there TARGETTING.

There is a VAST DIFFERENCE between a couple of hundred civilians being

killed -- by accident --because they were in the wrong place at the wrong

time and those young unborn children who are PURPOSEFULLY being targetted

everyday who have no ability whatsoever to avoid or escape what is being

done to them. Yes, when you look at it from the right perspective, there

is terrorism going on right here on American soil against innocent

civilians. Your mention of 100,000 (even though that applies to soldiers,

not innocent bystanders) is a fraction of how many babies are killed every

year. Go and look up the facts. Close to 2 MILLION!! abortions occur

every year here. When you add that up from when it was legalized back in

the early 70s you get a total of over 50 million deaths -- that is around

20% of our total population!

What if within that group of children was one who would have been born to

rise up and lead an articulate crusade against forced vaccinations? Oh, now

perhaps we can start seeing our nation's true mistakes more clearly.

Bush is correct to try to end abortion (though, he hasn't gone far enough

in my opinion), and it is this factor that played a major role in my, and

many other's, election decision making and final choice last week between

two lemons.

BTW, my caps are to be interpreted as emphasis not as sarcastic yelling :-)

Carolyn

Re: Re: feedback regarding the Hitler issue

>

> Nope, but just one further issue - 100,000 + Iraqis and 1200 US & UK and

> other soldiers are lives to but somehow that doesn't even get discussed.

>

> YES, 2 crappy choices

>

> Everyone has GOT to look further at what is behind all of this and NO,

> there is NOT one issue to vote on, sorry to say.

> Sheri

>

> At 07:09 PM 11/11/2004 -0000, you wrote:

> >

> >

> >What is being reported is that morals and values is what won Bush the

> >election. I really think this is a religious/political subject, and

> >I'm afraid it could turn really ugly, or push some of the new members

> >on this list away. When they start reading this stuff, they will say

> >maybe these people are really lunatics on the fringe!

> >

> >The way I see it is, we had two crappy choices!!!! One that supported

> >the killing of innocent fetuses and one that didn't. Sorry, but when

> >you are talking Christians you have to take this issue first. Now,

> >I'm sure no one wants to get into a pro-life, pro-choice religious

> >debate on a vaccination list.

> >

> >Only my .02!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >> > <<<That is not at all what I am doing. I am

> >> > showing you that the same words

> >> > that come out of Bush's mouth are the ones

> >> > that' came out of

> >> > Hitler's mouth and Goebels mouth. You make of it

> >> > what you wish. Everyone

> >> > at the time who was a Christian believed in

> >> > Goebels and Hitler. I

> >> > encourage you to look at this issue deeply. The

> >> > powers that be can fool

> >> > all of us.>>>>

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > I am a Christian, and you know Sheri, as you've

> >> > probably already concluded, you can't tell the

> >> > christians that believe Bush anything different.

> >> > I've tried and they just don't hear it. They are

> >> > totally propagandized on this issue. People think

> >> > Satan is out fishing or golfing on Sunday

> >> > mornings; nope he's sittin' in churches all over

> >> > the world leading the christians to hell.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> I am a christian too, I can not figure out why some are

> >so " blinded "

> >> when it comes to Bush, Its very scarry.

> >>

> >> Donna

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

At 03:50 PM 11/11/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>

>

>>Nope, but just one further issue - 100,000 + Iraqis and 1200 US & UK and

>>other soldiers are lives to but somehow that doesn't even get discussed.

>

>>YES, 2 crappy choices

>

>

>

>By my following comment, I'm not implying I am 100% behind the Iraq War (I

>think we should be putting most of our efforts into finding Bin Laden)....

And another myth perpetuated to keep you all in fear

Looks like not everyone has read up on Leo Strauss and the neocons

>But anyway, just for clarification on your above statement -- BUSH is not

>killing Iraqis, our TROOPS are (if those men believed it was an unjust

>cause there would be huge numbers of them going AWOL) ,

Oh really - and when has that ever happened? Viet Nam? No.

The mentality is not to leave if it is unjust. It is to do what you are told

and of those 100,000

>+ Iraqis you mention that have been killed, they are predominately fighting,

>resisting men, mainly insurgents, seeking to maintain the Sadamm Hussein

>regime -- they do not want freedom for Iraqis!.....

Hardly. You may want to look a little deeper than what Fox news tells you.

We get more actual fact over here in the UK where the media is not as

censored and we have people in our neighborhoods who are from Iraq and

people going over to help. It is men and women and children and babies and

pregnant women with babies in their bellies.

Imagine, that someone decides that Bush is a threat to the world (now

there's a concept!) and that he should be gotten rid of. Let's say it is

Spain who decides this. So the Spanish invade the US and they come to your

town - Anytown USA - and you have freedom fighters there. Everyone who can

is trying to defend their town. They didn't vote for Bush, they are from a

Blue County ;-)

They had no control, more than the rest of us, as to Bush and his neocons

and all the dems and everyone. Your in your little town. You are fighting

for your life - all of you. You are fighting for your family, your

neighborhood, your town, your county, your state and your country. You are

doing all you can as you are fighting for your freedom from an invader and

an agressor. And in Spain they are labeling you all insurgents, fighting

to maintain the regime. Just think about it.

>

>There is a lot of convoluted thinking going on here on this forum. We need

>to evaluate things through a careful perspective. War is always going to

>result in casualties -- and, unfortunately, often a minor (very minor!)

>portion are civilians, but they are not who our troops are there TARGETTING.

Sorry, we are getting emails from soldiers who ARE SICK at what they are

having to do.

Troops have always targetted anyone and everyone. First thing to be bombed

this week in Fallujah was the hospital. Very strategic thing to do as then

the doctors can't report on casualties to the outside world.

>There is a VAST DIFFERENCE between a couple of hundred civilians being

>killed -- by accident --because they were in the wrong place at the wrong

>time

Yeah, at a wedding, at school, in the hospital. 100,000 people.............

and those young unborn children who are PURPOSEFULLY being targetted

>everyday who have no ability whatsoever to avoid or escape what is being

>done to them.

There is NO difference

Yes, when you look at it from the right perspective, there

>is terrorism going on right here on American soil against innocent

>civilians. Your mention of 100,000 (even though that applies to soldiers,

>not innocent bystanders) is a fraction of how many babies are killed every

>year.

That is one issue and this is another issue. But no one cares about the

above issue.

Go and look up the facts. Close to 2 MILLION!! abortions occur

>every year here. When you add that up from when it was legalized back in

>the early 70s you get a total of over 50 million deaths -- that is around

>20% of our total population!

>

> What if within that group of children was one who would have been born to

>rise up and lead an articulate crusade against forced vaccinations? Oh, now

>perhaps we can start seeing our nation's true mistakes more clearly.

>

> Bush is correct to try to end abortion (though, he hasn't gone far enough

>in my opinion), and it is this factor that played a major role in my, and

>many other's, election decision making and final choice last week between

>two lemons.

You really think Bush cares? You really think Bush even thinks about this

issue. This issue is USED to convince YOU to vote and to rally and rah rah

sis boom bah.

>

>

Once people in the US care about children that are already viable and born

and in poverty and vaccinated to death

AND care about children in the rest of the world in poverty and vaccinated

to death. Then you can worry about embryos.

If that is important to you then deal with it.

But to vote for one person who SAYS they are against abortion (a person who

is just a puppet standing up there telling you what you want to hear) - so

they can stay in power. Do you think one of the Neocons around him cares?

Is a Christian?

You are too gullible.

The issue is fascism. Again compare the US with early Hitler

Germany........there is NO difference.

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

The figure of 100,000 – estimated by extrapolating the surveyed

households' death toll to the whole population - is based

on " conservative assumptions " , notes Les at s Hopkins

Bloomberg School of Public Health, Baltimore, US, who led the study.

That estimate excludes Falluja, a hotspot for violence. If the data

from this town is included, the study points to about 200,000 excess

deaths since the outbreak of war.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996596

People who voted for Bush based on abortions, Need to do thier home

work, Abortions have been on the decline for years, Now that Bush is

in office...National data on abortions is not being kept??? But some

states have kept dadta and have shown an increase in abortions since

Bush took office.

Abortion was decreasing. When President Bush took office, the

nation's abortion rates were at a 24-year low, after a 17.4% decline

during the 1990s. This was an average decrease of 1.7% per year,

mostly during the latter part of the decade. (This data comes from

Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life using the Guttmacher

Institute's studies).

Enter W. Bush in 2001. One would expect the abortion rate to

continue its consistent course downward, if not plunge. Instead, the

opposite happened.

I found three states that have posted multi-year statistics through

2003, and abortion rates have risen in all three: Kentucky's

increased by 3.2% from 2000 to 2003. Michigan's increased by 11.3%

from 2000 to 2003. Pennsylvania's increased by 1.9% from 1999 to

2002. I found 13 additional states that reported statistics for 2001

and 2002. Eight states saw an increase in abortion rates (14.6%

average increase), and five saw a decrease (4.3% average decrease).

Under President Bush, the decade-long trend of declining abortion

rates appears to have reversed. Given the trends of the 1990s,

52,000 more abortions occurred in the United States in 2002 than

would have been expected before this change of direction.

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.display & issue=041013

Donna

>

> >Nope, but just one further issue - 100,000 + Iraqis and 1200 US &

UK and

> >other soldiers are lives to but somehow that doesn't even get

discussed.

>

> >YES, 2 crappy choices

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Donna for researching that.

At 09:32 PM 11/11/2004 -0000, you wrote:

>

>

>

>

>The figure of 100,000 – estimated by extrapolating the surveyed

>households' death toll to the whole population - is based

>on " conservative assumptions " , notes Les at s Hopkins

>Bloomberg School of Public Health, Baltimore, US, who led the study.

>

>That estimate excludes Falluja, a hotspot for violence. If the data

>from this town is included, the study points to about 200,000 excess

>deaths since the outbreak of war.

>

>http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996596

>

>

>

>People who voted for Bush based on abortions, Need to do thier home

>work, Abortions have been on the decline for years, Now that Bush is

>in office...National data on abortions is not being kept??? But some

>states have kept dadta and have shown an increase in abortions since

>Bush took office.

>

>

>Abortion was decreasing. When President Bush took office, the

>nation's abortion rates were at a 24-year low, after a 17.4% decline

>during the 1990s. This was an average decrease of 1.7% per year,

>mostly during the latter part of the decade. (This data comes from

>Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life using the Guttmacher

>Institute's studies).

>

>Enter W. Bush in 2001. One would expect the abortion rate to

>continue its consistent course downward, if not plunge. Instead, the

>opposite happened.

>

>I found three states that have posted multi-year statistics through

>2003, and abortion rates have risen in all three: Kentucky's

>increased by 3.2% from 2000 to 2003. Michigan's increased by 11.3%

>from 2000 to 2003. Pennsylvania's increased by 1.9% from 1999 to

>2002. I found 13 additional states that reported statistics for 2001

>and 2002. Eight states saw an increase in abortion rates (14.6%

>average increase), and five saw a decrease (4.3% average decrease).

>

>Under President Bush, the decade-long trend of declining abortion

>rates appears to have reversed. Given the trends of the 1990s,

>52,000 more abortions occurred in the United States in 2002 than

>would have been expected before this change of direction.

>

>

>http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.display & issue=041013

>

>

>Donna

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

Hardly. You may want to look a little deeper than what Fox news tells you.

We get more actual fact over here in the UK where the media is not as

censored and we have people in our neighborhoods who are from Iraq and

people going over to help. It is men and women and children and babies and

pregnant women with babies in their bellies.

So you totally trust everything you hear from local UK news people just

because they say they have been there (is it not possible they could have

an alterior agenda just as well as what you accuse of Bush?) over actual

eye-witness reports from soldiers who have returned to the US and are now on

leave. We get calls in to our local radio NC talk show from Fort Bragg

soldiers all the time telling of their experience there and how thankful the

Iraqi people are.... No one is twisting these soldier's arms to call in.

They do so because they are compelled to. The reason I believe this is

because of hearing from trustworthy sources -- families who have sons

fighting there.... Also, consider that the majority of military voted to

re-elect Bush .

The following is cut and pasted from " The Record " (Harvard Law School

Newspaper -- hardly a pro conservative voice), Nov. 4, 2004: (The link if

you wish to check it

out:http://www.hlrecord.org/news/2004/11/04/News/Bush-Wins-795531.shtml)

Despite a highly controversial war in Iraq, and the often-divisive military

operations associated with the War on Terror, the President amassed 57% of

the military vote.

That should tell you something.

>>There is a VAST DIFFERENCE between a couple of hundred civilians being

> >killed -- by accident --because they were in the wrong place at the wrong

> >time

> Yeah, at a wedding, at school, in the hospital. 100,000

people.............

> >and those young unborn children who are PURPOSEFULLY being targetted

> >everyday who have no ability whatsoever to avoid or escape what is being

> >done to them.

>

> There is NO difference

Again, the above is a prime example of what I believe to be convoluted

thinking. There is no difference in accidental deaths and pre-meditated

murder? ????

Any follow up to the rest of your responses is rather pointless if your

foundations are such.

One final one though:

> That is one issue and this is another issue. But no one cares about the

> above issue.

>

I do, and I am one.

Carolyn

Re: Re: feedback regarding the Hitler issue

>

> At 03:50 PM 11/11/2004 -0500, you wrote:

> >

> >

> >>Nope, but just one further issue - 100,000 + Iraqis and 1200 US & UK and

> >>other soldiers are lives to but somehow that doesn't even get discussed.

> >

> >>YES, 2 crappy choices

> >

> >

> >

> >By my following comment, I'm not implying I am 100% behind the Iraq War

(I

> >think we should be putting most of our efforts into finding Bin

Laden)....

>

> And another myth perpetuated to keep you all in fear

> Looks like not everyone has read up on Leo Strauss and the neocons

>

> >But anyway, just for clarification on your above statement -- BUSH is not

> >killing Iraqis, our TROOPS are (if those men believed it was an unjust

> >cause there would be huge numbers of them going AWOL) ,

>

> Oh really - and when has that ever happened? Viet Nam? No.

> The mentality is not to leave if it is unjust. It is to do what you are

told

>

> and of those 100,000

> >+ Iraqis you mention that have been killed, they are predominately

fighting,

> >resisting men, mainly insurgents, seeking to maintain the Sadamm Hussein

> >regime -- they do not want freedom for Iraqis!.....

>

> Hardly. You may want to look a little deeper than what Fox news tells

you.

> We get more actual fact over here in the UK where the media is not as

> censored and we have people in our neighborhoods who are from Iraq and

> people going over to help. It is men and women and children and babies

and

> pregnant women with babies in their bellies.

>

> Imagine, that someone decides that Bush is a threat to the world (now

> there's a concept!) and that he should be gotten rid of. Let's say it is

> Spain who decides this. So the Spanish invade the US and they come to

your

> town - Anytown USA - and you have freedom fighters there. Everyone who

can

> is trying to defend their town. They didn't vote for Bush, they are from

a

> Blue County ;-)

> They had no control, more than the rest of us, as to Bush and his neocons

> and all the dems and everyone. Your in your little town. You are

fighting

> for your life - all of you. You are fighting for your family, your

> neighborhood, your town, your county, your state and your country. You

are

> doing all you can as you are fighting for your freedom from an invader and

> an agressor. And in Spain they are labeling you all insurgents, fighting

> to maintain the regime. Just think about it.

>

> >

> >There is a lot of convoluted thinking going on here on this forum. We

need

> >to evaluate things through a careful perspective. War is always going

to

> >result in casualties -- and, unfortunately, often a minor (very minor!)

> >portion are civilians, but they are not who our troops are there

TARGETTING.

>

> Sorry, we are getting emails from soldiers who ARE SICK at what they are

> having to do.

> Troops have always targetted anyone and everyone. First thing to be

bombed

> this week in Fallujah was the hospital. Very strategic thing to do as

then

> the doctors can't report on casualties to the outside world.

>

> >There is a VAST DIFFERENCE between a couple of hundred civilians being

> >killed -- by accident --because they were in the wrong place at the wrong

> >time

>

> Yeah, at a wedding, at school, in the hospital. 100,000

people.............

>

> and those young unborn children who are PURPOSEFULLY being targetted

> >everyday who have no ability whatsoever to avoid or escape what is being

> >done to them.

>

> There is NO difference

>

> Yes, when you look at it from the right perspective, there

> >is terrorism going on right here on American soil against innocent

> >civilians. Your mention of 100,000 (even though that applies to

soldiers,

> >not innocent bystanders) is a fraction of how many babies are killed

every

> >year.

>

> That is one issue and this is another issue. But no one cares about the

> above issue.

>

>

> Go and look up the facts. Close to 2 MILLION!! abortions occur

> >every year here. When you add that up from when it was legalized back

in

> >the early 70s you get a total of over 50 million deaths -- that is around

> >20% of our total population!

> >

> > What if within that group of children was one who would have been born

to

> >rise up and lead an articulate crusade against forced vaccinations? Oh,

now

> >perhaps we can start seeing our nation's true mistakes more clearly.

> >

> > Bush is correct to try to end abortion (though, he hasn't gone far

enough

> >in my opinion), and it is this factor that played a major role in my, and

> >many other's, election decision making and final choice last week between

> >two lemons.

>

> You really think Bush cares? You really think Bush even thinks about this

> issue. This issue is USED to convince YOU to vote and to rally and rah

rah

> sis boom bah.

>

> >

> >

>

> Once people in the US care about children that are already viable and born

> and in poverty and vaccinated to death

> AND care about children in the rest of the world in poverty and vaccinated

> to death. Then you can worry about embryos.

> If that is important to you then deal with it.

>

> But to vote for one person who SAYS they are against abortion (a person

who

> is just a puppet standing up there telling you what you want to hear) - so

> they can stay in power. Do you think one of the Neocons around him cares?

> Is a Christian?

>

> You are too gullible.

>

> The issue is fascism. Again compare the US with early Hitler

> Germany........there is NO difference.

> Sheri

> --------------------------------------------------------

> Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

> Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

> $$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

> vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

> (go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

> Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

> Vaccine Dangers On-Line course -

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

> Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

> ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

> OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

>

> ******

> " Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

> Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

> knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy

information

> and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>re-elect Bush .

>The following is cut and pasted from " The Record " (Harvard Law School

>Newspaper -- hardly a pro conservative voice), Nov. 4, 2004: (The link if

>you wish to check it

>out:http://www.hlrecord.org/news/2004/11/04/News/Bush-Wins-795531.shtml)

>

>Despite a highly controversial war in Iraq, and the often-divisive military

>operations associated with the War on Terror, the President amassed 57% of

>the military vote.

And 43% of the military DID NOT VOTE for Bush...........interesting.

>

>>>There is a VAST DIFFERENCE between a couple of hundred civilians being

>> >killed -- by accident --because they were in the wrong place at the wrong

>> >time

>

>> Yeah, at a wedding, at school, in the hospital. 100,000

>people.............

>

>> >and those young unborn children who are PURPOSEFULLY being targetted

>> >everyday who have no ability whatsoever to avoid or escape what is being

>> >done to them.

>>

>> There is NO difference

>

>Again, the above is a prime example of what I believe to be convoluted

>thinking. There is no difference in accidental deaths and pre-meditated

>murder? ????

Accidental deaths??????????

Murder is for a person who has already been born.

Murder for an embryo or a fetus, according to you is murder. Maybe, maybe

not.

But FOR SURE it is murder when the child, adult is outside the womb.

The discussion was about Fascism

These deaths are not accidental.

>

>Any follow up to the rest of your responses is rather pointless if your

>foundations are such.

>

>One final one though:

>

>> That is one issue and this is another issue. But no one cares about the

>> above issue.

>

>I do, and I am one.

>Carolyn

I was referring to the issue of the murder in Iraq and elsewhere being

conducted by the Bush Adminstration and all who have voted for him and the

neocons - premeditated murder based on lies.

No one cares about that.

Did this not resonate with you????????????

Imagine, that someone decides that Bush is a threat to the world (now

there's a concept!) and that he should be gotten rid of. Let's say it is

Spain who decides this. So the Spanish invade the US and they come to your

town - Anytown USA - and you have freedom fighters there. Everyone who can

is trying to defend their town. They didn't vote for Bush, they are from a

Blue County ;-)

They had no control, more than the rest of us, as to Bush and his neocons

and all the dems and everyone. Your in your little town. You are fighting

for your life - all of you. You are fighting for your family, your

neighborhood, your town, your county, your state and your country. You are

doing all you can as you are fighting for your freedom from an invader and

an agressor. And in Spain they are labeling you all insurgents, fighting

to maintain the regime. Just think about it.

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

Did this not resonate with you????????????

> Imagine, that someone decides that Bush is a threat to the world (now

> there's a concept!) and that he should be gotten rid of.

My goodness, everything is so amazingly backwards!!! What do you think the

planes into the World Trade Center were all about? (It didn't really

happen. The pro Bush media made it up?) Someone not only doesn't like

Bush, but they hate all Americans as well and would like to see our whole

country destroyed!!! The freedom fighters of America, our troops, are

defending us, Sheri. They are trying, like any noble men, to keep the

battle front away from American soil to protect their innocent women,

children, and the elderly, unlike the terrorists whose sole purpose is to

specifically target those groups!!

>Just think about it.

I am. Tell me, why are Iraqi men stepping up to leadership positions in a

new government that they do not believe in or want (according to you) --

especially knowing they will be mercilessly slaughtered by their own people?

Numerous assassinations have occurred, yet new men, new Iraqi men, continue

to boldly and courageously step up to the plate to help restore order and

bring leadership to their people. (I suppose your answer to that will be

that the Bush administration has either blackmailed these poor men and taken

their children hostage to force them to do it, or have paid them off with

enormous money that they can't refuse). Real courage is on display here

and you cannot see it. Real courage like this would not be demonstrated

if there were not enough Iraqi people desirous of freedom from the former

Hussein oppression.

The freedom fighters you keep referring to are not FREEDOM FIGHTERS at all

they OPPRESSION FIGHTERS -- they are the ones AGAINST freedom. The TRUE

freedom fighters are those Iraqi men who have bravely joined forces with our

men, resisting the insurgents, because they know their cause is right and

good and best for Iraq. They are being trained right now so that they can

eventually take over and allow our men to return home.....

Carolyn

Re: Re: feedback regarding the Hitler issue

>

>

> >re-elect Bush .

> >The following is cut and pasted from " The Record " (Harvard Law School

> >Newspaper -- hardly a pro conservative voice), Nov. 4, 2004: (The link

if

> >you wish to check it

> >out:http://www.hlrecord.org/news/2004/11/04/News/Bush-Wins-795531.shtml)

> >

> >Despite a highly controversial war in Iraq, and the often-divisive

military

> >operations associated with the War on Terror, the President amassed 57%

of

> >the military vote.

>

> And 43% of the military DID NOT VOTE for Bush...........interesting.

>

> >

> >>>There is a VAST DIFFERENCE between a couple of hundred civilians being

> >> >killed -- by accident --because they were in the wrong place at the

wrong

> >> >time

> >

> >> Yeah, at a wedding, at school, in the hospital. 100,000

> >people.............

> >

> >> >and those young unborn children who are PURPOSEFULLY being targetted

> >> >everyday who have no ability whatsoever to avoid or escape what is

being

> >> >done to them.

> >>

> >> There is NO difference

> >

>

> >Again, the above is a prime example of what I believe to be convoluted

> >thinking. There is no difference in accidental deaths and pre-meditated

> >murder? ????

>

> Accidental deaths??????????

> Murder is for a person who has already been born.

> Murder for an embryo or a fetus, according to you is murder. Maybe, maybe

> not.

> But FOR SURE it is murder when the child, adult is outside the womb.

> The discussion was about Fascism

> These deaths are not accidental.

>

> >

> >Any follow up to the rest of your responses is rather pointless if your

> >foundations are such.

> >

> >One final one though:

> >

> >> That is one issue and this is another issue. But no one cares about

the

> >> above issue.

>

> >

> >I do, and I am one.

> >Carolyn

>

> I was referring to the issue of the murder in Iraq and elsewhere being

> conducted by the Bush Adminstration and all who have voted for him and the

> neocons - premeditated murder based on lies.

>

> No one cares about that.

>

> Did this not resonate with you????????????

> Imagine, that someone decides that Bush is a threat to the world (now

> there's a concept!) and that he should be gotten rid of. Let's say it is

> Spain who decides this. So the Spanish invade the US and they come to

your

> town - Anytown USA - and you have freedom fighters there. Everyone who

can

> is trying to defend their town. They didn't vote for Bush, they are from

a

> Blue County ;-)

> They had no control, more than the rest of us, as to Bush and his neocons

> and all the dems and everyone. Your in your little town. You are

fighting

> for your life - all of you. You are fighting for your family, your

> neighborhood, your town, your county, your state and your country. You

are

> doing all you can as you are fighting for your freedom from an invader and

> an agressor. And in Spain they are labeling you all insurgents, fighting

> to maintain the regime. Just think about it.

>

> --------------------------------------------------------

> Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

> Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

> $$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

> vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

> (go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

> Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

> Vaccine Dangers On-Line course -

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

> Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

> ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

> OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

>

> ******

> " Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

> Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

> knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy

information

> and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 06:53 PM 11/11/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>

>Did this not resonate with you????????????

>> Imagine, that someone decides that Bush is a threat to the world (now

>> there's a concept!) and that he should be gotten rid of.

>

>My goodness, everything is so amazingly backwards!!! What do you think the

>planes into the World Trade Center were all about? (It didn't really

>happen. The pro Bush media made it up?) Someone not only doesn't like

>Bush, but they hate all Americans as well and would like to see our whole

>country destroyed!!! The freedom fighters of America, our troops, are

>defending us, Sheri. They are trying, like any noble men, to keep the

>battle front away from American soil to protect their innocent women,

>children, and the elderly, unlike the terrorists whose sole purpose is to

>specifically target those groups!!

Carolyn, I fear you are beyond hope

9/11 and Iraq have nothing to do with each other.

And 9/11 investigation as blocked at every turn by this administration.

Have to ask myself why.

If my company was taken out by a bomb, as the boss, I would sure want to

know why so it didn't happen again. But the Boss Bush didn't even want to

know why. Sat in front of school children for a LONGGGGGGGGG time

listening to the story of the goat.

You have been thoroughly brainwashed and all the blood is on your hands.

We have surpassed equaling 3000 in NY killed. We have just about 1/2'd

that amount in our old soldiers. And we have gone over 30 times more

killing in Iraq.

Troops in Iraq are NOT our freedom fighters. I hope you and others wake up

soon. Yeah, they hate us all right. But they don't have to do anything to

destroy our country. YOU ALL are doing it for them.

I am sick and tired of being quiet about this and I will NOT be silenced

any longer.

>

> >Just think about it.

>

>I am. Tell me, why are Iraqi men stepping up to leadership positions in a

>new government that they do not believe in or want (according to you) --

>especially knowing they will be mercilessly slaughtered by their own people?

Oh, you only know so little aobut what is going on there

>Numerous assassinations have occurred, yet new men, new Iraqi men, continue

>to boldly and courageously step up to the plate to help restore order and

>bring leadership to their people.

Yeah, yeah.

(I suppose your answer to that will be

>that the Bush administration has either blackmailed these poor men and taken

>their children hostage to force them to do it, or have paid them off with

>enormous money that they can't refuse). Real courage is on display here

>and you cannot see it. Real courage like this would not be demonstrated

>if there were not enough Iraqi people desirous of freedom from the former

>Hussein oppression.

And who put Saddam there and who gave him weapons - Rumsfeld, et all.

Americans do NOT know history.

>The freedom fighters you keep referring to are not FREEDOM FIGHTERS at all

>they OPPRESSION FIGHTERS -- they are the ones AGAINST freedom.

You are deluded, Carolyn.

The TRUE

>freedom fighters are those Iraqi men who have bravely joined forces with our

>men, resisting the insurgents, because they know their cause is right and

>good and best for Iraq. They are being trained right now so that they can

>eventually take over and allow our men to return home.....

Oh man...................................................................

>

>Carolyn

>

>

> Re: Re: feedback regarding the Hitler issue

>

>

>>

>>

>> >re-elect Bush .

>> >The following is cut and pasted from " The Record " (Harvard Law School

>> >Newspaper -- hardly a pro conservative voice), Nov. 4, 2004: (The link

>if

>> >you wish to check it

>> >out:http://www.hlrecord.org/news/2004/11/04/News/Bush-Wins-795531.shtml)

>> >

>> >Despite a highly controversial war in Iraq, and the often-divisive

>military

>> >operations associated with the War on Terror, the President amassed 57%

>of

>> >the military vote.

>>

>> And 43% of the military DID NOT VOTE for Bush...........interesting.

>>

>> >

>> >>>There is a VAST DIFFERENCE between a couple of hundred civilians being

>> >> >killed -- by accident --because they were in the wrong place at the

>wrong

>> >> >time

>> >

>> >> Yeah, at a wedding, at school, in the hospital. 100,000

>> >people.............

>> >

>> >> >and those young unborn children who are PURPOSEFULLY being targetted

>> >> >everyday who have no ability whatsoever to avoid or escape what is

>being

>> >> >done to them.

>> >>

>> >> There is NO difference

>> >

>>

>> >Again, the above is a prime example of what I believe to be convoluted

>> >thinking. There is no difference in accidental deaths and pre-meditated

>> >murder? ????

>>

>> Accidental deaths??????????

>> Murder is for a person who has already been born.

>> Murder for an embryo or a fetus, according to you is murder. Maybe, maybe

>> not.

>> But FOR SURE it is murder when the child, adult is outside the womb.

>> The discussion was about Fascism

>> These deaths are not accidental.

>>

>> >

>> >Any follow up to the rest of your responses is rather pointless if your

>> >foundations are such.

>> >

>> >One final one though:

>> >

>> >> That is one issue and this is another issue. But no one cares about

>the

>> >> above issue.

>>

>> >

>> >I do, and I am one.

>> >Carolyn

>>

>> I was referring to the issue of the murder in Iraq and elsewhere being

>> conducted by the Bush Adminstration and all who have voted for him and the

>> neocons - premeditated murder based on lies.

>>

>> No one cares about that.

>>

>> Did this not resonate with you????????????

>> Imagine, that someone decides that Bush is a threat to the world (now

>> there's a concept!) and that he should be gotten rid of. Let's say it is

>> Spain who decides this. So the Spanish invade the US and they come to

>your

>> town - Anytown USA - and you have freedom fighters there. Everyone who

>can

>> is trying to defend their town. They didn't vote for Bush, they are from

>a

>> Blue County ;-)

>> They had no control, more than the rest of us, as to Bush and his neocons

>> and all the dems and everyone. Your in your little town. You are

>fighting

>> for your life - all of you. You are fighting for your family, your

>> neighborhood, your town, your county, your state and your country. You

>are

>> doing all you can as you are fighting for your freedom from an invader and

>> an agressor. And in Spain they are labeling you all insurgents, fighting

>> to maintain the regime. Just think about it.

>>

>> --------------------------------------------------------

>> Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

>> Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

>> $$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

>> vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

>> (go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

>> Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

>> Vaccine Dangers On-Line course -

>http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

>> Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

>> ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

>> OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

>>

>> ******

>> " Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

>> Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

>> knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy

>information

>> and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

PS

>

>Did this not resonate with you????????????

>> Imagine, that someone decides that Bush is a threat to the world (now

>> there's a concept!) and that he should be gotten rid of.

>

>My goodness, everything is so amazingly backwards!!! What do you think the

>planes into the World Trade Center were all about? (It didn't really

>happen. The pro Bush media made it up?) Someone not only doesn't like

>Bush, but they hate all Americans as well and would like to see our whole

>country destroyed!!!

Who is 'they'???

The freedom fighters of America, our troops, are

>defending us, Sheri.

How are they defending us in Iraq that had nothing to do with 9/11? Iraq

never invaded us? Iraq never could invade us?

They are trying, like any noble men, to keep the

>battle front away from American soil to protect their innocent women,

>children, and the elderly, unlike the terrorists whose sole purpose is to

>specifically target those groups!!

Better to kill Arab & Aryan women, children, elderly as they are not innocent.

>

>I am. Tell me, why are Iraqi men stepping up to leadership positions in a

>new government that they do not believe in or want (according to you) --

>especially knowing they will be mercilessly slaughtered by their own people?

>Numerous assassinations have occurred, yet new men, new Iraqi men, continue

>to boldly and courageously step up to the plate to help restore order and

>bring leadership to their people.

Name these people and tell me their background and relationship with the US

Tell me their history of living in Iraq.

Real courage like this would not be demonstrated

>if there were not enough Iraqi people desirous of freedom from the former

>Hussein oppression.

Name some of these people.

>The freedom fighters you keep referring to are not FREEDOM FIGHTERS at all

>they OPPRESSION FIGHTERS -- they are the ones AGAINST freedom. The TRUE

>freedom fighters are those Iraqi men who have bravely joined forces with our

>men, resisting the insurgents, because they know their cause is right and

>good and best for Iraq. They are being trained right now so that they can

>eventually take over and allow our men to return home.....

Yeah, right

Again, I haven't had you put yourself in their place..........

Imagine, that someone decides that Bush is a threat to the world (now

there's a concept!) and that he should be gotten rid of. Let's say it is

Spain who decides this. So the Spanish invade the US and they come to your

town - Anytown USA - and you have freedom fighters there. Everyone who can

is trying to defend their town. They didn't vote for Bush, they are from a

Blue County ;-)

They had no control, more than the rest of us, as to Bush and his neocons

and all the dems and everyone. Your in your little town. You are fighting

for your life - all of you. You are fighting for your family, your

neighborhood, your town, your county, your state and your country. You are

doing all you can as you are fighting for your freedom from an invader and

an agressor. And in Spain they are labeling you all insurgents, fighting

to maintain the regime. Just think about it.

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

>>

>> Go and look up the facts. Close to 2 MILLION!! abortions occur

>> >every year here. When you add that up from when it was legalized back

>in

>> >the early 70s you get a total of over 50 million deaths -- that is around

>> >20% of our total population!

>> >

>> > What if within that group of children was one who would have been born

>to

>> >rise up and lead an articulate crusade against forced vaccinations?

And imagine, I didn't choose to have children for many reasons - what if

one of those eggs I have could have joined with some sperm out there and

could have risen up and lead an articulate crusade........

What if the pope had married someone and had a baby and ...................

What if it is one of those Iraqi children who were killed?

What if one of those Iraqi children who is now dead is the messiah returning?

What if.................one of those children living in poverty in

Texas.................

What if.....................

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

I am sorry, but I have to say this. What the pro lifers are missing is that if

you take away the right for a woman to choose an abortion, you are giving the

government more power over our bodies. They are going to have more of a say in

what we do and it could give them more power over other areas of our lives.

Abortion is a moral, ethical and family decision and should be left that way, it

shouldn't be up to the government.

Sara

" They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country or our people.

And neither do we. "

W. Bush

Re: feedback regarding the Hitler issue

What is being reported is that morals and values is what won Bush the

election. I really think this is a religious/political subject, and

I'm afraid it could turn really ugly, or push some of the new members

on this list away. When they start reading this stuff, they will say

maybe these people are really lunatics on the fringe!

The way I see it is, we had two crappy choices!!!! One that supported

the killing of innocent fetuses and one that didn't. Sorry, but when

you are talking Christians you have to take this issue first. Now,

I'm sure no one wants to get into a pro-life, pro-choice religious

debate on a vaccination list.

Only my .02!

> > <<<That is not at all what I am doing. I am

> > showing you that the same words

> > that come out of Bush's mouth are the ones

> > that' came out of

> > Hitler's mouth and Goebels mouth. You make of it

> > what you wish. Everyone

> > at the time who was a Christian believed in

> > Goebels and Hitler. I

> > encourage you to look at this issue deeply. The

> > powers that be can fool

> > all of us.>>>>

> >

> >

> >

> > I am a Christian, and you know Sheri, as you've

> > probably already concluded, you can't tell the

> > christians that believe Bush anything different.

> > I've tried and they just don't hear it. They are

> > totally propagandized on this issue. People think

> > Satan is out fishing or golfing on Sunday

> > mornings; nope he's sittin' in churches all over

> > the world leading the christians to hell.

>

>

>

>

> I am a christian too, I can not figure out why some are

so " blinded "

> when it comes to Bush, Its very scarry.

>

> Donna