Re: disrupted circadian cycle?

June 17, 2006

Tate

This was my sleeping patter, and very light sleep, for at least ten years.

SAM-e changed all that for me. Gave me a solid 6 hours of deep sleep for

the first dose. SAM-e must be taken in the morning on an empty stomach.

A doc I saw last summer said 6 hours was not enough and added GABA complex

and l-Tryptophan complex at bedtime. Again, what a difference. Now sleep

eight to nine hours providing I have not run out of either.

THese three amino acids and their cofactors have made a huge difference in

my life.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

_disrupted circadian cycle? _

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dycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MTY0NQRtc2dJZAM5OTc5MARzZWMD

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/group//message/99790)

Posted by: " Tate " _mascis_j@... _

(mailto:mascis_j@...?Subject=Re: disrupted circadian cycle?) _mascis_j _

(mascis_j)

Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:43 am (PST)

Hi, I can't sleep at night.

Starting several years ago, I would go to bed around 9 or 10 and fall

asleep around 11 or 12. Then I would go to bed at 9 and fall asleep

around 1 or 2. Then I would go to bed and fall asleep around 3 or 4.

Now I just don't go to bed and am starting to basically not be able to

fall asleep until the sun comes up.

It seems like a circadian issue to me because on occasion, I will be

able to take a nap for a couple hours in the evening, say from 6-8pm,

or 8pm to 12am, something like that. Feels great. Even though the sleep

is choppy. So it would seem that if I was tired, I would be able to

sleep through the night if it wasn't a circadian issue.

I've asked about this before, and a few people mentioned sam-e, does

anyone still take that? Anyone else have this kind of problem?

Thanks,

Tate

June 17, 2006

-----Original Message-----

From:

[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Blake Graham

I bought 'The SADelite' through http://www.northernlighttechnologies.com/

* * * * *

There are some on eBay for those you can't afford them new.

Alison

God bless

Give food to the hungry every day with a simple click, at no cost to you.

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June 17, 2006

Hi Tate,

If you take SAM-e, it's best to take it early in the morning, and then maybe

early

afternoon. Taking it in the evening may in fact keep you awake at night.

Your disrupted cycle could be due to high evening cortisol and low morning

cortisol. A

good supplement to lower high cortisol is Seriphos, available at most supplement

stores.

If you take one or two in the late afternoon, and then another one about 2 hours

before

bed, it should lower the high cortisol, and you'll be quite tired -- and should

fall asleep

easier.

The theory is once you do this for a month or two -- or three -- you'll stop

burning up

that nightime cortisol, and gradually rebuild reserves so that they'll be higher

in the

morning -- thus restoring or repairing your circadian rhythm.

At least that's what an experienced doctor told our support group.

Hope this helps,

Dan

>

> Hi, I can't sleep at night.

>

> Starting several years ago, I would go to bed around 9 or 10 and fall

> asleep around 11 or 12. Then I would go to bed at 9 and fall asleep

> around 1 or 2. Then I would go to bed and fall asleep around 3 or 4.

> Now I just don't go to bed and am starting to basically not be able to

> fall asleep until the sun comes up.

>

> It seems like a circadian issue to me because on occasion, I will be

> able to take a nap for a couple hours in the evening, say from 6-8pm,

> or 8pm to 12am, something like that. Feels great. Even though the sleep

> is choppy. So it would seem that if I was tired, I would be able to

> sleep through the night if it wasn't a circadian issue.

>

> I've asked about this before, and a few people mentioned sam-e, does

> anyone still take that? Anyone else have this kind of problem?

>

> Thanks,

> Tate

>

June 17, 2006

On Jun 17, 2006, at 3:35 AM, Tate wrote:

> Hi, I can't sleep at night.

>

> Starting several years ago, I would go to bed around 9 or 10 and fall

> asleep around 11 or 12. Then I would go to bed at 9 and fall asleep

> around 1 or 2. Then I would go to bed and fall asleep around 3 or 4.

> Now I just don't go to bed and am starting to basically not be able to

> fall asleep until the sun comes up.

>

> It seems like a circadian issue to me because on occasion, I will be

> able to take a nap for a couple hours in the evening, say from 6-8pm,

> or 8pm to 12am, something like that. Feels great. Even though the

> sleep

> is choppy. So it would seem that if I was tired, I would be able to

> sleep through the night if it wasn't a circadian issue.

>

> I've asked about this before, and a few people mentioned sam-e, does

> anyone still take that? Anyone else have this kind of problem?

If you have insurance, get your doctor to recommend you for a sleep

study. This is serious business, and needs to be checked out.

Sleep disturbances are a very common part of CFS. Many of us here

have struggled with them. You may have one of a couple different

forms of sleep apnea (which can be fatal over the long haul), or an

endocrine issue, or thyroid and adrenal problems -- there are a lot

of things that can mess up your sleep. And, fortunately, there are

sleep doctors whose job it is to figure it out. They can really help.

Step one, of course, is to eliminate caffeine. If you haven't

already, that's something you can do straightaway. Some of us have

done well with melatonin, SAMe, and/or magnesium before bed. Herbs

like valerian or homeopathics like Calms can be helpful. Examine your

supplements (if you take them), and try to avoid taking stimulating

stuff like B vitamins, DHEA, DMAE, and such before bed -- it's often

surprised me how much effect they can have on my sleep.

Let us know how it goes!

Sara

June 17, 2006

Hi Tate,

I'm afraid I don't yet myself understand well enough the serotonin,

tryptophan, and melatonin processes and sleep cycles (to try to

explain it), but I suffer from this no-sleep and choppy-sleep stuff

as well.

Several years ago I started taking 200 micrograms of melatonin before

bed -- about an hour or so. That helped considerably. Now I take

two 300 microgram (600 mcg) tablets an hour or two before bed, plus 2

diphenhydramine 25 mg immediately before going to bed. The melatonin

helps with keeping you asleep longer, and the diphenhydramine helps

you fall asleep faster ( " right now " ).

Diphenhydramine doesn't work for everyone, because it's an

antihistamine, and some people are not sensitive in the same ways.

But it helps most people, so the odds are good for you if you try

it.

It's also pretty safe and you don't have to worry if you goof up and

forget you've taken it so you take it again by accident. I use it

all the time in my dogs, when there's an allergic skin problem and

they need quieting and sedation to stop scratching and itching. Key

word here is " sedation. "

Diphenhydramine HCl is generic Benedryl and lots cheaper in the

generic. The capsules are over-the-counter and come in the 25-mg

size. You can get a bottle of 100 at Walmart for about $4.

With all this stuff, melatonin and diphenhydramine, I try to start at

the low end, to see if that's enough to give me benefit, before I

resort to drastic measures and clobber the problem with higher

dosages.

I know that lots of people on this list take both of these things in

quite higher dosages, but I always try to start with the lowest dose

of melatonin and only one 25-mg capsule of diphendramine, to see if

that does the trick. Why " pollute " the waters any more than they

already are, you know?

I hope this helps.

in Champaign IL

>

> Hi, I can't sleep at night.

>

> Starting several years ago, I would go to bed around 9 or 10 and

fall

> asleep around 11 or 12. Then I would go to bed at 9 and fall asleep

> around 1 or 2. Then I would go to bed and fall asleep around 3 or

4.

> Now I just don't go to bed and am starting to basically not be able

to

> fall asleep until the sun comes up.

>

> It seems like a circadian issue to me because on occasion, I will

be

> able to take a nap for a couple hours in the evening, say from 6-

8pm,

> or 8pm to 12am, something like that. Feels great. Even though the

sleep

> is choppy. So it would seem that if I was tired, I would be able to

> sleep through the night if it wasn't a circadian issue.

>

> I've asked about this before, and a few people mentioned sam-e,

does

> anyone still take that? Anyone else have this kind of problem?

>

> Thanks,

> Tate

>

June 17, 2006

Hi Tate,

I had a disrupted circadian rhythm. I bought a 'bright light box' and used it 30

minutes each day, first thing in the morning at exactly the same time. It worked

wonders for me!! I bought 'The SADelite' through

http://www.northernlighttechnologies.com/

Melatonin didn't help me, but has helped others. Both these things are worth

trying.

Regards,

Blake

June 17, 2006

Any thoughts on this product??? If it wasnt so expensive, I would love

to try it.

http://ssl.maxamlabs.com/MAXAM_ASP_ViewProduct_LongDescription.asp?

ProductINDX=1004

June 17, 2006

If the link does not work the product is Circadian Regeneration System

by Maxam Nutraceutics (same company that makes PCA-RX).

http://ssl.maxamlabs.com

> Any thoughts on this product??? If it wasnt so expensive, I would

love

> to try it.

>

> http://ssl.maxamlabs.com/MAXAM_ASP_ViewProduct_LongDescription.asp?

> ProductINDX=1004

>

June 19, 2006

>

> Tate

>

> This was my sleeping patter, and very light sleep, for at least

ten years.

>

> SAM-e changed all that for me. Gave me a solid 6 hours of deep

sleep for

> the first dose. SAM-e must be taken in the morning on an empty

stomach.

>

> A doc I saw last summer said 6 hours was not enough and added GABA

complex

> and l-Tryptophan complex at bedtime. Again, what a difference.

Now sleep

> eight to nine hours providing I have not run out of either.

Hi, thanks.

How much do you take? Has the amount increased/decreased?

Thanks everybody,

Tate

June 19, 2006

>

> Tate

>

> This was my sleeping patter, and very light sleep, for at least

ten years.

>

> SAM-e changed all that for me. Gave me a solid 6 hours of deep

sleep for

> the first dose. SAM-e must be taken in the morning on an empty

stomach.

Thanks

I took a 200mg sam-e today, kind of strong, probably going to

quarter them... What about the GABA? How much do you take?

Thanks everybody,

Tate

June 20, 2006

Tate, SAMe is not a likely solution to the problem you describe. I have had good

results treating a similar sleep problem with melatonin, a natural substance

that regulates circadian rythms. I use 6 to 9 mg before bedtime and 2.5 mg

sublingual at bedtime. Works for me. Sleep like a baby. If additional help is

needed, 50-100mg of Tryptophan will aid relaxation, as will GABA. Good sleeping.

Mel

disrupted circadian cycle?

Hi, I can't sleep at night.

Starting several years ago, I would go to bed around 9 or 10 and fall

asleep around 11 or 12. Then I would go to bed at 9 and fall asleep

around 1 or 2. Then I would go to bed and fall asleep around 3 or 4.

Now I just don't go to bed and am starting to basically not be able to

fall asleep until the sun comes up.

It seems like a circadian issue to me because on occasion, I will be

able to take a nap for a couple hours in the evening, say from 6-8pm,

or 8pm to 12am, something like that. Feels great. Even though the sleep

is choppy. So it would seem that if I was tired, I would be able to

sleep through the night if it wasn't a circadian issue.

I've asked about this before, and a few people mentioned sam-e, does

anyone still take that? Anyone else have this kind of problem?

Thanks,

Tate

June 20, 2006

Tate

DO NOT cut the 200 mg SAM-e. It is enteric coated for a very good reason.

I understand that there are now 100mg available. iherb.com is one source.

Take SAM-e on an empty stomach between 5 am and 3 pm. Allow several days

for your body to adjust to it.

I worked up from 200 mg SAM-e to 1200 to 1600 mg SAM-e, adjusting the dose

every two to four weeks.