Dazed & Confused! All treatments

[Guest guest]

HI All,

I am new to this group and trying to learn what I can do to treat my

CFS and get on with my life. My big beef is the crashing after a

small amount of exertion. When that happens, I do have the brain

fog, extreme fatigue and the FM symptoms.

After being here a month or so I have realized that CFS/FM COULD be

caused by: Lyme (but the tests for that are iffy, there is no

agreement on whether they are flawed or even if Lyme is the problem

in CFS! Or this COULD be caused by a bacteria infection; or this

COULD be caused by a viral infection; or it COULD be genetics; or it

COULD heavy metals, or it COULD BE BITOXINS, ETC, ETC, ETC.

On top of that there is no consensus on how to chelate metals in the

best and safest way!

HAS ANYONE GOTTEN WELL?????? HOW????? WITHOUT ENDING UP IN THE POOR

HOUSE???

Janet

in San Diego

[Guest guest]

HI Janet,

I wrote a few days ago that starting taking Fibro AMJ daytime formula has

helped me getting rid of the brainfog. I also feel less fatigue and my

headaches are easy to cope with now. I also sleep better.

There also is a night time formula but I have not taken that yet.

So far no one has responded to my email.

Chiara

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of alwaysacutie2u

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 3:29 PM

Subject: Dazed & Confused! All treatments

HI All,

I am new to this group and trying to learn what I can do to treat my

CFS and get on with my life. My big beef is the crashing after a

small amount of exertion. When that happens, I do have the brain

fog, extreme fatigue and the FM symptoms.

After being here a month or so I have realized that CFS/FM COULD be

caused by: Lyme (but the tests for that are iffy, there is no

agreement on whether they are flawed or even if Lyme is the problem

in CFS! Or this COULD be caused by a bacteria infection; or this

COULD be caused by a viral infection; or it COULD be genetics; or it

COULD heavy metals, or it COULD BE BITOXINS, ETC, ETC, ETC.

On top of that there is no consensus on how to chelate metals in the

best and safest way!

HAS ANYONE GOTTEN WELL?????? HOW????? WITHOUT ENDING UP IN THE POOR

HOUSE???

Janet

in San Diego

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

On May 30, 2006, at 12:29 PM, alwaysacutie2u wrote:

> HI All,

>

> I am new to this group and trying to learn what I can do to treat my

> CFS and get on with my life. My big beef is the crashing after a

> small amount of exertion. When that happens, I do have the brain

> fog, extreme fatigue and the FM symptoms.

This is called " post-exertional malaise, " and is considered to be the

single signature, defining symptom of CFS.

I've had CFS/ME for over 20 years. It was a slow slide from very

active and functional to spending several years mostly in bed, and

now to about an 80% recovery.

And, while most of the rest of my symptoms are gone or controlled,

this is the one that continues to dog me. When (if) this one ever

goes away, I'll know I'm really healed.

The biggest challenge for me -- and one of the real milestones toward

recovery -- was learning to pace myself. In the early years, I'd use

my rare " good " days to rev up to fourth gear and try to get a lot

done -- and then be angry and surprised when I'd find myself thrown

back to bed for a week as a result of overdoing.

Crashing is, in and of itself, damaging and harmful. It's overloading

your body to the point where the disease flares up and gets the upper

hand. Each flare-up raises your risk that something important --

your brain, heart, endocrine system, adrenals, etc. -- will take a

permanent or long-term hit. Living on a push-and-crash cycle is a

great way to ensure that you will be sicker in the future than you've

been in the past. Avoiding crashes is one of the big keys to getting

well (or, at least, not getting sicker).

I finally figured out that, rather than zapping back between fourth

gear and a dead stop, it was much better to putter along at a more

even speed in first or second gear. It wasn't life in the fast lane,

but I could pretty consistently get at least a few essential things

done each day. Life became a lot more reliable and manageable when I

recognized and accepted my limits, learned to watch for the first

signs of tiredness, and respected those signs enough to stop exerting

and get off my feet the moment I felt them. As soon as I stopped

pushing, I stopped crashing.

Over time, I worked out where the edges of my energy bubble were, and

rationed my resources carefully so I never pushed beyond them. For

example, if I wanted to have a big day -- Christmas with the family,

or a day of shopping -- I'd be careful to eat and rest up well

beforehand, arrange the event itself for minimum stress (staying off

my feet, ensuring I'd have adequate support, food and water, etc.),

and then plan to take it very easy for a couple days after. This

really forced me to prioritize my life, and figure out who and what I

wanted to give my limited resources to -- never a bad thing. I pruned

and weeded out activities, people, and events that didn't feed me,

and carefully budgeted my little pittance of energy for those that

did. Rather than feeling frustrated and tired, I started to feel

balanced and in control. It was a much smaller life -- but it was a

happier one, because I could start making commitments and being

useful again, and got to be more fully present for the things that

really did matter to me.

The funny thing was: My recovery really began when I finally learned

to pace myself this way. The more I rested, and the more

conscientiously I avoided putting myself in situations that were

likely to push me until I crashed, the higher my baseline energy

level rose. It took several months before I noticed it; but, by and

by, I found that I'd up-shifted from second gear to third, and could

sustain that speed fairly reliably. These days (with a big boost from

glutathione supplementation, which expanded the bubble hugely), I

actually do have a fourth gear, which I can sustain for 3-4 days a

week, 3-4 months at a time, before needing to rest. And even then,

the rest isn't really a full-on crash. It's just downshifting back to

second for a while to allow the system to recover.

By the way, everybody: I finished my first semester of grad school on

May 8, and got my final grades yesterday. I took two classes (six

units in all). I got an A in one course, and an A- in the other. More

importantly, I actually survived a busy semester that included travel

and big projects (plus a whole lot of unexpected and highly stressful

excitement from both my kids' schools in late April-early May) --

without wiping out.

As you can imagine, I've been keeping things very restful and quiet

in the two weeks since school ended. But two weeks is proving to be

about all the recovery time I need. Summer beckons...and on June 21,

I'm off to Greece with my son. Two years ago, I couldn't have

imagined 14 days of international travel without my husband for

backup; but now, I think I'm up to it.

Sara

[Guest guest]

Hi Sara:

Just wanted to congratulate you on your new accomplishments and to thank

you for your most encouraging post. I wasn't the person that you were

answering but her post certainly reflected my feelings and frustration.

It was very timely indeed.

Best Regards,

Teena

On Tue, 30 May 2006 13:46:19 -0700 Mercuria <mercuria@...>

writes:

>

> On May 30, 2006, at 12:29 PM, alwaysacutie2u wrote:

>

> > HI All,

> >

> > I am new to this group and trying to learn what I can do to treat

> my

> > CFS and get on with my life. My big beef is the crashing after a

> > small amount of exertion. When that happens, I do have the brain

> > fog, extreme fatigue and the FM symptoms.

>

> This is called " post-exertional malaise, " and is considered to be

> the

> single signature, defining symptom of CFS.

>

> I've had CFS/ME for over 20 years. It was a slow slide from very

> active and functional to spending several years mostly in bed, and

> now to about an 80% recovery.

>

> And, while most of the rest of my symptoms are gone or controlled,

> this is the one that continues to dog me. When (if) this one ever

> goes away, I'll know I'm really healed.

>

> The biggest challenge for me -- and one of the real milestones

> toward

> recovery -- was learning to pace myself. In the early years, I'd use

>

> my rare " good " days to rev up to fourth gear and try to get a lot

> done -- and then be angry and surprised when I'd find myself thrown

>

> back to bed for a week as a result of overdoing.

>

> Crashing is, in and of itself, damaging and harmful. It's

> overloading

> your body to the point where the disease flares up and gets the

> upper

> hand. Each flare-up raises your risk that something important --

> your brain, heart, endocrine system, adrenals, etc. -- will take a

> permanent or long-term hit. Living on a push-and-crash cycle is a

> great way to ensure that you will be sicker in the future than

> you've

> been in the past. Avoiding crashes is one of the big keys to getting

>

> well (or, at least, not getting sicker).

>

> I finally figured out that, rather than zapping back between fourth

>

> gear and a dead stop, it was much better to putter along at a more

> even speed in first or second gear. It wasn't life in the fast lane,

>

> but I could pretty consistently get at least a few essential things

>

> done each day. Life became a lot more reliable and manageable when I

>

> recognized and accepted my limits, learned to watch for the first

> signs of tiredness, and respected those signs enough to stop

> exerting

> and get off my feet the moment I felt them. As soon as I stopped

> pushing, I stopped crashing.

>

> Over time, I worked out where the edges of my energy bubble were,

> and

> rationed my resources carefully so I never pushed beyond them. For

> example, if I wanted to have a big day -- Christmas with the family,

>

> or a day of shopping -- I'd be careful to eat and rest up well

> beforehand, arrange the event itself for minimum stress (staying off

>

> my feet, ensuring I'd have adequate support, food and water, etc.),

>

> and then plan to take it very easy for a couple days after. This

> really forced me to prioritize my life, and figure out who and what

> I

> wanted to give my limited resources to -- never a bad thing. I

> pruned

> and weeded out activities, people, and events that didn't feed me,

> and carefully budgeted my little pittance of energy for those that

> did. Rather than feeling frustrated and tired, I started to feel

> balanced and in control. It was a much smaller life -- but it was a

>

> happier one, because I could start making commitments and being

> useful again, and got to be more fully present for the things that

> really did matter to me.

>

> The funny thing was: My recovery really began when I finally

> learned

> to pace myself this way. The more I rested, and the more

> conscientiously I avoided putting myself in situations that were

> likely to push me until I crashed, the higher my baseline energy

> level rose. It took several months before I noticed it; but, by and

>

> by, I found that I'd up-shifted from second gear to third, and could

>

> sustain that speed fairly reliably. These days (with a big boost

> from

> glutathione supplementation, which expanded the bubble hugely), I

> actually do have a fourth gear, which I can sustain for 3-4 days a

> week, 3-4 months at a time, before needing to rest. And even then,

> the rest isn't really a full-on crash. It's just downshifting back

> to

> second for a while to allow the system to recover.

>

> By the way, everybody: I finished my first semester of grad school

> on

> May 8, and got my final grades yesterday. I took two classes (six

> units in all). I got an A in one course, and an A- in the other.

> More

> importantly, I actually survived a busy semester that included

> travel

> and big projects (plus a whole lot of unexpected and highly

> stressful

> excitement from both my kids' schools in late April-early May) --

> without wiping out.

>

> As you can imagine, I've been keeping things very restful and quiet

>

> in the two weeks since school ended. But two weeks is proving to be

>

> about all the recovery time I need. Summer beckons...and on June 21,

>

> I'm off to Greece with my son. Two years ago, I couldn't have

> imagined 14 days of international travel without my husband for

> backup; but now, I think I'm up to it.

>

> Sara

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

HI Sara,

Thank you for your reply back. My bubble is so very small. I have already

gotten to the pacing part.

What tests did you decide to run??? What has helped you the most besides the

glutathione???

I think I remember you have not detoxed metals yet. Is that right???

Thank you in advance,

Janet

in San Diego

rudedog89@... wrote:

Hi Sara:

Just wanted to congratulate you on your new accomplishments and to thank

you for your most encouraging post. I wasn't the person that you were

answering but her post certainly reflected my feelings and frustration.

It was very timely indeed.

Best Regards,

Teena

On Tue, 30 May 2006 13:46:19 -0700 Mercuria <mercuria@...>

writes:

>

> On May 30, 2006, at 12:29 PM, alwaysacutie2u wrote:

>

> > HI All,

> >

> > I am new to this group and trying to learn what I can do to treat

> my

> > CFS and get on with my life. My big beef is the crashing after a

> > small amount of exertion. When that happens, I do have the brain

> > fog, extreme fatigue and the FM symptoms.

>

> This is called " post-exertional malaise, " and is considered to be

> the

> single signature, defining symptom of CFS.

>

> I've had CFS/ME for over 20 years. It was a slow slide from very

> active and functional to spending several years mostly in bed, and

> now to about an 80% recovery.

>

> And, while most of the rest of my symptoms are gone or controlled,

> this is the one that continues to dog me. When (if) this one ever

> goes away, I'll know I'm really healed.

>

> The biggest challenge for me -- and one of the real milestones

> toward

> recovery -- was learning to pace myself. In the early years, I'd use

>

> my rare " good " days to rev up to fourth gear and try to get a lot

> done -- and then be angry and surprised when I'd find myself thrown

>

> back to bed for a week as a result of overdoing.

>

> Crashing is, in and of itself, damaging and harmful. It's

> overloading

> your body to the point where the disease flares up and gets the

> upper

> hand. Each flare-up raises your risk that something important --

> your brain, heart, endocrine system, adrenals, etc. -- will take a

> permanent or long-term hit. Living on a push-and-crash cycle is a

> great way to ensure that you will be sicker in the future than

> you've

> been in the past. Avoiding crashes is one of the big keys to getting

>

> well (or, at least, not getting sicker).

>

> I finally figured out that, rather than zapping back between fourth

>

> gear and a dead stop, it was much better to putter along at a more

> even speed in first or second gear. It wasn't life in the fast lane,

>

> but I could pretty consistently get at least a few essential things

>

> done each day. Life became a lot more reliable and manageable when I

>

> recognized and accepted my limits, learned to watch for the first

> signs of tiredness, and respected those signs enough to stop

> exerting

> and get off my feet the moment I felt them. As soon as I stopped

> pushing, I stopped crashing.

>

> Over time, I worked out where the edges of my energy bubble were,

> and

> rationed my resources carefully so I never pushed beyond them. For

> example, if I wanted to have a big day -- Christmas with the family,

>

> or a day of shopping -- I'd be careful to eat and rest up well

> beforehand, arrange the event itself for minimum stress (staying off

>

> my feet, ensuring I'd have adequate support, food and water, etc.),

>

> and then plan to take it very easy for a couple days after. This

> really forced me to prioritize my life, and figure out who and what

> I

> wanted to give my limited resources to -- never a bad thing. I

> pruned

> and weeded out activities, people, and events that didn't feed me,

> and carefully budgeted my little pittance of energy for those that

> did. Rather than feeling frustrated and tired, I started to feel

> balanced and in control. It was a much smaller life -- but it was a

>

> happier one, because I could start making commitments and being

> useful again, and got to be more fully present for the things that

> really did matter to me.

>

> The funny thing was: My recovery really began when I finally

> learned

> to pace myself this way. The more I rested, and the more

> conscientiously I avoided putting myself in situations that were

> likely to push me until I crashed, the higher my baseline energy

> level rose. It took several months before I noticed it; but, by and

>

> by, I found that I'd up-shifted from second gear to third, and could

>

> sustain that speed fairly reliably. These days (with a big boost

> from

> glutathione supplementation, which expanded the bubble hugely), I

> actually do have a fourth gear, which I can sustain for 3-4 days a

> week, 3-4 months at a time, before needing to rest. And even then,

> the rest isn't really a full-on crash. It's just downshifting back

> to

> second for a while to allow the system to recover.

>

> By the way, everybody: I finished my first semester of grad school

> on

> May 8, and got my final grades yesterday. I took two classes (six

> units in all). I got an A in one course, and an A- in the other.

> More

> importantly, I actually survived a busy semester that included

> travel

> and big projects (plus a whole lot of unexpected and highly

> stressful

> excitement from both my kids' schools in late April-early May) --

> without wiping out.

>

> As you can imagine, I've been keeping things very restful and quiet

>

> in the two weeks since school ended. But two weeks is proving to be

>

> about all the recovery time I need. Summer beckons...and on June 21,

>

> I'm off to Greece with my son. Two years ago, I couldn't have

> imagined 14 days of international travel without my husband for

> backup; but now, I think I'm up to it.

>

> Sara

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On May 30, 2006, at 7:51 PM, Janet s wrote:

> Thank you for your reply back. My bubble is so very small. I have

> already gotten to the pacing part.

I found that respecting its size, and arranging it so that I could

live comfortably within it (including doing things that made it as

sweet and welcoming and " homey " as possible), was an incredibly

healing step. I fought the illness for years -- my capacity for

denial is apparently infinite. Once I gave up and accepted that this

WAS my life -- and may, in fact, be all the life I ever get -- then I

could let go of the denial and grief, and start embracing that life

and learning to live it well.

And the better I learned to live within that cozy bubble, the bigger

it got. Weird, but true.

> What tests did you decide to run??? What has helped you the most

> besides the glutathione???

>

> I think I remember you have not detoxed metals yet. Is that right???

Not formally, but I've been on large daily doses of NAC for over five

years, and am now building glutathione three different ways.

Somewhere in there, chelation happens (I hope).

Unlike most people here, tests haven't been a huge part of the story

for me so far. It's only been in the past year that I've been working

with doctors who had the first clue about which ones to run. Before

that, they usually ran the wrong tests, or ran the right ones and

then grossly misinterpreted them. Because of this, most of my gains

over the past eight years have been based on much a more pragmatic

tango of trial-and-error. I did a lot of this on my own, because even

the most well-meaning doctors generally knew even less than I did

(and that wasn't much) about CFS.

I'm working with a doctor now who has ordered a basic mercury blood

level test, along with mycoplasma, CMV, borrellia, babesia, and so on

-- in other words, after 20 years, I'm finally getting the basic

infection panel all CFS patients should have on Day One. They were

ordered in early April, but school intervened until now. We'll see

where that goes.

What helped me most?

1. Sleep apnea diagnosis and treatment

2. Soy allergy discovery and treatment (with NAC and diet)

3. Thyroid/DHEA

4. B12/Glutathione injections

5. Bioidentical HRT

6. Magnesium/B6 supplementation

There are a handful of supplements I wouldn't try to do without,

including ProBoost, CLA, Enada, L-carnitine, ALA, and probably a few

others I can't remember now.

Sara

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I'm working with a doctor now who has ordered a basic mercury blood

> level test, along with mycoplasma, CMV, borrellia, babesia, and so

on

> -- in other words, after 20 years, I'm finally getting the basic

> infection panel all CFS patients should have on Day One. They were

> ordered in early April, but school intervened until now. We'll see

> where that goes.

>

>

***Hi Sara - Were you able to get these tests done at BC Biomedical or

did you have to go to your local hospital to get the blood drawn? I'm

going in to see my doctor tomorrow and whenever I bring up testing that

she isn't familiar with, she always wants to know if the local labs

will do the tests? When it comes to CFS she is absolutely clueless!

Take care.

Bernie

[Guest guest]

***Hi Sara - Were you able to get these tests done at BC Biomedical or

> did you have to go to your local hospital to get the blood drawn? I'm

> going in to see my doctor tomorrow and whenever I bring up testing that

> she isn't familiar with, she always wants to know if the local labs

> will do the tests? When it comes to CFS she is absolutely clueless!

I'm getting them done at the local lab in my doctor's office building. The only

thing they

can't handle on their own is the IgeneX (which I'm still debating -- see

previous note). But

I've got Dr. Dunne's lab request for a Western Blot, IgeneX's own forms with

their drawing

and shipping instructions, the willingness to pay for it out of pocket, and a

plan to drive

down to the US and ship the blood myself the day after the draw is done.

So all they really need to do is read the form an fill an SST tube for me to

take home. I'll

take it from there.

The thing I've noticed about BC doctors is that they're pretty supportive of a

lot of

experimental stuff as long as they don't have to try to justify it to BC Care. I

hate having to

pay out-of-pocket; but for things that aren't on the formulary, it's sometimes

the only way

to get what you need.

And even so, it sure beats having to pay for *everything*, like I did in the

States, where

most of the best CFS docs don't even take insurance. Having all the basics

covered makes

the exotic stuff, like IgeneX, easier to afford.

As for clueless doctors: I printed out all 114 pages of the Canadian Criteria,

put it in a

report cover, and had my GP put it in my file. He admitted on day one that he

didn't know

much about ME, but he's bright and curious, so he read the whole thing, and that

became

the basis of our working relationship.

Over the last two years, he's come to trust that I'm on the level; and I support

that trust by

not asking him for things I can't back up with good documentation. We seem to

have come

to a place of mutual respect. He dug up Dr. Dunne for me, and helped me reverse-

engineer my FFC glutathione shot and get it made up locally -- so I'm pretty

happy with

him, on the whole.

Sara

[Guest guest]

>

> I'm getting them done at the local lab in my doctor's office

building. >

> The thing I've noticed about BC doctors is that they're pretty

supportive of a lot of

> experimental stuff as long as they don't have to try to justify it

to BC Care.

***Hi Sara - Thanks! I go again to my doctor in two weeks time so

I'll take in a list of tests I would like to get done.

I haven't had any luck finding doctors here that are supportive of

experimental stuff :-( They usually give me a list of reasons why

they aren't interested in pursuing it any further. I had one doctor,

everytime I brought up the subject of CFS, she would pick up my file

and walk out the room. I fired her real quick!!

Take care.

Bernie

[Guest guest]

On Jun 5, 2006, at 8:59 PM, bernieanneca wrote:

>

> >

>

> > I'm getting them done at the local lab in my doctor's office

> building. >

> > The thing I've noticed about BC doctors is that they're pretty

> supportive of a lot of

> > experimental stuff as long as they don't have to try to justify it

> to BC Care.

>

> ***Hi Sara - Thanks! I go again to my doctor in two weeks time so

> I'll take in a list of tests I would like to get done.

>

> I haven't had any luck finding doctors here that are supportive of

> experimental stuff :-( They usually give me a list of reasons why

> they aren't interested in pursuing it any further. I had one doctor,

> everytime I brought up the subject of CFS, she would pick up my file

> and walk out the room. I fired her real quick!!

After 20+ years, I don't mess around with new doctors any more. It's

out there in the first five minutes of the first visit. " I have ME.

How familiar are you with this disease? "

" Not very " is not an automatic disqualifier. In fact, it's the usual

answer.

So I go on. " This has been a huge health issue for over 20 years for

me -- and believe me, I wish I knew more about it, too. Is this

something you're open to working with me about? "

If they hedge, or look at the walls, or otherwise act evasive, I

finish my immediate business, leave, and don't come back. You don't

have to know anything; but you do need to believe the disease exists,

and be open to learning a thing or two about it in order to treat me.

If they indicate that much openness, I say, " Great! Is it OK if I

bring you some stuff to read, so we'll have some common

understandings to work from? " If they say yes, I'll bring the

Canadian Case Guidelines on my next visit. At that point, I'll also

go into my various medications, and some history.

If we're all good after that, I figure I've got a doctor I can work

with. Life is too short to waste on doctors who don't want me around.

Sara

[Guest guest]

Janet,

I have gotten very well. If you want to know more contact me off

list. Unfortunately, in my opinion, most people are barking up the

wrong tree with regards to this disease. They need to look at the

big picture - not just the analytical here but the synergetic.

peace,

paul doyon

>

> HI All,

>

> I am new to this group and trying to learn what I can do to treat

my

> CFS and get on with my life. My big beef is the crashing after a

> small amount of exertion. When that happens, I do have the brain

> fog, extreme fatigue and the FM symptoms.

>

> After being here a month or so I have realized that CFS/FM COULD

be

> caused by: Lyme (but the tests for that are iffy, there is no

> agreement on whether they are flawed or even if Lyme is the

problem

> in CFS! Or this COULD be caused by a bacteria infection; or this

> COULD be caused by a viral infection; or it COULD be genetics; or

it

> COULD heavy metals, or it COULD BE BITOXINS, ETC, ETC, ETC.

>

> On top of that there is no consensus on how to chelate metals in

the

> best and safest way!

>

> HAS ANYONE GOTTEN WELL?????? HOW????? WITHOUT ENDING UP IN THE

POOR

> HOUSE???

>

> Janet

> in San Diego

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I am so glad you have gotten well. How did you go about it??? What really did

it for you???

Janet

in San Diego

Doyon <prd34@...> wrote:

Janet,

I have gotten very well. If you want to know more contact me off

list. Unfortunately, in my opinion, most people are barking up the

wrong tree with regards to this disease. They need to look at the

big picture - not just the analytical here but the synergetic.

peace,

paul doyon

>

> HI All,

>

> I am new to this group and trying to learn what I can do to treat

my

> CFS and get on with my life. My big beef is the crashing after a

> small amount of exertion. When that happens, I do have the brain

> fog, extreme fatigue and the FM symptoms.

>

> After being here a month or so I have realized that CFS/FM COULD

be

> caused by: Lyme (but the tests for that are iffy, there is no

> agreement on whether they are flawed or even if Lyme is the

problem

> in CFS! Or this COULD be caused by a bacteria infection; or this

> COULD be caused by a viral infection; or it COULD be genetics; or

it

> COULD heavy metals, or it COULD BE BITOXINS, ETC, ETC, ETC.

>

> On top of that there is no consensus on how to chelate metals in

the

> best and safest way!

>

> HAS ANYONE GOTTEN WELL?????? HOW????? WITHOUT ENDING UP IN THE

POOR

> HOUSE???

>

> Janet

> in San Diego

>