RE: Fermentation, systemic fungus, was Model for CFS primary factors

[Guest guest]

and Kurt

Fermented cabbage is also called sauerkraut.

It is only beneficial when it is NOT pasteurized as that process or applying

any heat over about 110 degrees F deactivates those beneficial bacteria.

Easy to make at home, by the way.

mjh

From: " Kurt R. " kurt@...

Date: Sat May 13, 2006 8:56am(PDT)

Subject: Re: Fermentation, systemic fungus, was Model for CFS primary factors

,

To my knowledge the only problem with fermented products is those using

yeast, such as yeast breads. But other fermented foods, particularly

fermented cabbage, are wonderful. I have used quite a lot of fermented

cabbage. However, that is strong stuff and many people can only handle

a spoonful with a meal.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

[Guest guest]

THe sauerkraut/fermented cabbage from the grocery store is most likely

pasteurized, hence the beneficial bacteria are gone.

Kefir is a fermented, effervescent milk product that you can buy in

specialty stores and/or make at home.

Again, it the the LIVE bacteria as found in PLAIN yoghurt that help your gut

and candida.

mjh

From: " netsukeme " kcapel@...

Date: Sat May 13, 2006 10:48am(PDT)

Subject: Re: Fermentation, systemic fungus, was Model for CFS primary factors

Now **that** makes sense to me. I wonder why I was urged to stop

eating stuff like sauerkraut, which I'd happened to just have on hand

and had started to eat, at the same time I started my " out, out damn

fungus " diet. I was told to stop the sauerkraut and anything else

fermented except yogurt and kefir (which I'd never heard of and still

don't know what it is).

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

[Guest guest]

Now **that** makes sense to me. I wonder why I was urged to stop

eating stuff like sauerkraut, which I'd happened to just have on hand

and had started to eat, at the same time I started my " out, out damn

fungus " diet. I was told to stop the sauerkraut and anything else

fermented except yogurt and kefir (which I'd never heard of and still

don't know what it is).

Thank you, Kurt.

Now, something that happened to me, with the sauerkraut, that I found

really odd but interesting. I inherited my mother's irritable bowel

syndrome...(rats, but a heretofore fact of life for me). So

sauerkraut has always given me gut trouble (gas, bloating, diarrhea),

even though I really like it and other fermented veggies.

However...once I started taking my drops of essense of oil of oregano

and olive oil (1:9) several times per day, and I'd also started

eating yogurt several times per day...I never had any trouble

digesting the sauerkraut even the couple of times I thought I overdid

it.

And what's almost stranger is that now cottage cheese doesn't bother

me like it used to either. I don't know if this means I'm no longer

lactose intolerant, but it **does** mean I'm pretty happy about the

whole situation improving dramatically.

What about regular cheese products, Kurt? I never cared for milk, so

that's no problem, but I was told to not eat cheese unless it's very

young baby cheese. And, sniffff, I really like cheese and miss it.

Thanks a bunch, Kurt.

in Champaign IL

>

> ,

> To my knowledge the only problem with fermented products is those

using

> yeast, such as yeast breads. But other fermented foods,

particularly

> fermented cabbage, are wonderful. I have used quite a lot of

fermented

> cabbage. However, that is strong stuff and many people can only

handle

> a spoonful with a meal. Because they are fermented, the probiotic

> bacteria are already embedded in the food, that beats 'enteric

coated'

> probiotic supplements, and helps ensure the probiotics will get all

the

> way through the system. Additionally, the fermentation pre-

digests the

> food, so we will get better absorption.

>

> So fermented foods ARE good, with the caveat of avoiding yeast.

> Fermented vegetables are best in my opinion, basically you can

pickle

> any vegetable by soaking it in acidic brine, basically soak the

> vegetable in salt/vinegar, or even just salt.. I have a few

recipes on

> my blog for this www.kurtsprotocol.blogspot.com

> <http://www.kurtsprotocol.blogspot.com/> .

> --Kurt

>

[Guest guest]

I used to have severe IBS for many years. It stopped suddenly one

day. But that's also when my other illness symptoms like fatigue

began to get worse. I feel quite sure that it was simply a shift in

the bacterial colonization of my gut that stopped the IBS.

penny

> >

> > ,

> > To my knowledge the only problem with fermented products is

those

> using

> > yeast, such as yeast breads. But other fermented foods,

> particularly

> > fermented cabbage, are wonderful. I have used quite a lot of

> fermented

> > cabbage. However, that is strong stuff and many people can only

> handle

> > a spoonful with a meal. Because they are fermented, the

probiotic

> > bacteria are already embedded in the food, that beats 'enteric

> coated'

> > probiotic supplements, and helps ensure the probiotics will get

all

> the

> > way through the system. Additionally, the fermentation pre-

> digests the

> > food, so we will get better absorption.

> >

> > So fermented foods ARE good, with the caveat of avoiding yeast.

> > Fermented vegetables are best in my opinion, basically you can

> pickle

> > any vegetable by soaking it in acidic brine, basically soak the

> > vegetable in salt/vinegar, or even just salt.. I have a few

> recipes on

> > my blog for this www.kurtsprotocol.blogspot.com

> > <http://www.kurtsprotocol.blogspot.com/> .

> > --Kurt

> >

>

[Guest guest]

AHA...pasteurization. Okay...that makes sense too. Thank you, mjh.

I will scout for unpasteurized, as I'm not up for the giant crock

routine for making this now.

Is there anything I can relate this kefir stuff to (by taste or

looks), or should I just take the plunge and try it?

I understand the live bacteria biz, thank you.

>

>

>

>

>

> THe sauerkraut/fermented cabbage from the grocery store is most

likely

> pasteurized, hence the beneficial bacteria are gone.

>

> Kefir is a fermented, effervescent milk product that you can buy

in

> specialty stores and/or make at home.

>

> Again, it the the LIVE bacteria as found in PLAIN yoghurt that help

your gut

> and candida.

>

> mjh

>

[Guest guest]

I could not eat cheese either, until I got my gut working better with

salt/c and fermented cabbage. Now I have no problem with cheese, but I

try to be conservative, and usually stick with aged cheeses (lower

sugar), such as cheddar.

--Kurt

Re: Fermentation, systemic fungus, was

Model for CFS primary factors

Now **that** makes sense to me. I wonder why I was urged to stop

eating stuff like sauerkraut, which I'd happened to just have on hand

and had started to eat, at the same time I started my " out, out damn

fungus " diet. I was told to stop the sauerkraut and anything else

fermented except yogurt and kefir (which I'd never heard of and still

don't know what it is).

Thank you, Kurt.

Now, something that happened to me, with the sauerkraut, that I found

really odd but interesting. I inherited my mother's irritable bowel

syndrome...(rats, but a heretofore fact of life for me). So

sauerkraut has always given me gut trouble (gas, bloating, diarrhea),

even though I really like it and other fermented veggies.

However...once I started taking my drops of essense of oil of oregano

and olive oil (1:9) several times per day, and I'd also started

eating yogurt several times per day...I never had any trouble

digesting the sauerkraut even the couple of times I thought I overdid

it.

And what's almost stranger is that now cottage cheese doesn't bother

me like it used to either. I don't know if this means I'm no longer

lactose intolerant, but it **does** mean I'm pretty happy about the

whole situation improving dramatically.

What about regular cheese products, Kurt? I never cared for milk, so

that's no problem, but I was told to not eat cheese unless it's very

young baby cheese. And, sniffff, I really like cheese and miss it.

Thanks a bunch, Kurt.

in Champaign IL

>

> ,

> To my knowledge the only problem with fermented products is those

using

> yeast, such as yeast breads. But other fermented foods,

particularly

> fermented cabbage, are wonderful. I have used quite a lot of

fermented

> cabbage. However, that is strong stuff and many people can only

handle

> a spoonful with a meal. Because they are fermented, the probiotic

> bacteria are already embedded in the food, that beats 'enteric

coated'

> probiotic supplements, and helps ensure the probiotics will get all

the

> way through the system. Additionally, the fermentation pre-

digests the

> food, so we will get better absorption.

>

> So fermented foods ARE good, with the caveat of avoiding yeast.

> Fermented vegetables are best in my opinion, basically you can

pickle

> any vegetable by soaking it in acidic brine, basically soak the

> vegetable in salt/vinegar, or even just salt.. I have a few

recipes on

> my blog for this www.kurtsprotocol.blogspot.com

> <http://www.kurtsprotocol.blogspot.com/> .

> --Kurt

>

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

HI Kurt,

I read your post and I got very excited as I was just told that I have an

allergy to " yeast mix " which is anything that contains baking yeast or brewer's

yeast. One of the things that falls into this category is vinegar of all types.

I have taken that news pretty hard, as I LOVE vinegar. I had pretty much

resigned myself to a life with no more pickles (or really condiments of any

kind) until I read your post. Then I got excited. But, I went to your website

and all of your recipes use vinegar (except for the pickled cabbage, which I

also just found out I am allergic to.) Do you have any other recipes for

pickles that don't use vinegar? By the way, thanks for sharing your blog.

Thank you,

Dawn M

So fermented foods ARE good, with the caveat of avoiding yeast.> Fermented

vegetables are best in my opinion, basically you can pickle> any vegetable by

soaking it in acidic brine, basically soak the> vegetable in salt/vinegar, or

even just salt.. I have a few recipes on> my blog for this

www.kurtsprotocol.blogspot.com> <http://www.kurtsprotocol.blogspot.com/> . >

--Kurt

Join the next generation of Hotmail and you could win the adventure of a

lifetime

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[Guest guest]

Dawn,

I just posted this a few messages ago, but here it is again:

Here is one recipe I have used with success

that just uses salt alone.

1. cut up a small/medium size head of cabbage and put it in a

mixing bowl

2. stir in 1 heaping tsp of natural sea salt until coated

3. let it sit for 30 minutes (the salt will bring out the moisture)

4. stuff into a quart jar

5. fill most of the way full with pure/filtered water

6. cover and set aside for about 3 days

7. refrigerate and eat 1tsp with every meal

the result is a perfect probiotic that will actually help digest food

better, and is particularly important for people with malabsorption.

--Kurt

RE: Fermentation, systemic fungus, was

Model for CFS primary factors

HI Kurt,

I read your post and I got very excited as I was just told that I have

an allergy to " yeast mix " which is anything that contains baking yeast

or brewer's yeast. One of the things that falls into this category is

vinegar of all types. I have taken that news pretty hard, as I LOVE

vinegar. I had pretty much resigned myself to a life with no more

pickles (or really condiments of any kind) until I read your post. Then

I got excited. But, I went to your website and all of your recipes use

vinegar (except for the pickled cabbage, which I also just found out I

am allergic to.) Do you have any other recipes for pickles that don't

use vinegar? By the way, thanks for sharing your blog.

Thank you,

Dawn M

So fermented foods ARE good, with the caveat of avoiding yeast.>

Fermented vegetables are best in my opinion, basically you can pickle>

any vegetable by soaking it in acidic brine, basically soak the>

vegetable in salt/vinegar, or even just salt.. I have a few recipes on>

my blog for this www.kurtsprotocol.blogspot.com>

<http://www.kurtsprotocol.blogspot.com/> . > --Kurt

Join the next generation of Hotmail and you could win the adventure of a

lifetime

http://www.imagine-msn.com/minisites/sweepstakes/mail/register.aspx

[Guest guest]

Hi Kurt,

Thanks for posting it again. I did see this message, but I must have been

confused. The recipe says to use cabbage, does it also work with cucumbers? (I

am allergic/hypersensitive to cabbage and cannot eat it in any form.) Thanks

again for your help and your patience (I know it can be frustrating when dealing

with people with brain fog :~))

Thank you,

Dawn

> Dawn,> I just posted this a few messages ago, but here it is again:> > Here

is one recipe I have used with success> that just uses salt alone.> > 1.

cut up a small/medium size head of cabbage and put it in a> mixing bowl> 2.

stir in 1 heaping tsp of natural sea salt until coated> 3. let it sit for

30 minutes (the salt will bring out the moisture)> 4. stuff into a quart

jar> 5. fill most of the way full with pure/filtered water> 6. cover

and set aside for about 3 days> 7. refrigerate and eat 1tsp with every

meal> > the result is a perfect probiotic that will actually help digest food>

better, and is particularly important for people with malabsorption.> > --Kurt

Join the next generation of Hotmail and you could win the adventure of a

lifetime

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[Guest guest]

Yes, almost any vegetable, even eggs.

--Kurt

Hi Kurt,

Thanks for posting it again. I did see this message, but I must have

been confused. The recipe says to use cabbage, does it also work with

cucumbers? (I am allergic/hypersensitive to cabbage and cannot eat it

in any form.) Thanks again for your help and your patience (I know it

can be frustrating when dealing with people with brain fog :~))

Thank you,

Dawn

> Dawn,> I just posted this a few messages ago, but here it is again:>

> Here is one recipe I have used with success> that just uses salt

alone.> > 1. cut up a small/medium size head of cabbage and put it

in a> mixing bowl> 2. stir in 1 heaping tsp of natural sea salt

until coated> 3. let it sit for 30 minutes (the salt will bring out

the moisture)> 4. stuff into a quart jar> 5. fill most of the

way full with pure/filtered water> 6. cover and set aside for about

3 days> 7. refrigerate and eat 1tsp with every meal> > the result

is a perfect probiotic that will actually help digest food> better, and

is particularly important for people with malabsorption.> > --Kurt

Join the next generation of Hotmail and you could win the adventure of a

lifetime

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[Guest guest]

Hi Kurt,

I have 2 more questions for you. When you say eggs, I am assuming you mean hard

boiled? Secondly, you say almost any vegetable, what wouldn't you use?

Thanks again,

DawnYes, almost any vegetable, even eggs.> --Kurt> > Hi Kurt,> > Thanks for

posting it again. I did see this message, but I must have> been confused. The

recipe says to use cabbage, does it also work with> cucumbers? (I am

allergic/hypersensitive to cabbage and cannot eat it> in any form.) Thanks

again for your help and your patience (I know it> can be frustrating when

dealing with people with brain fog :~))> > Thank you,> Dawn> > > > Dawn,> I

just posted this a few messages ago, but here it is again:>> > Here is one

recipe I have used with success> that just uses salt> alone.> > 1. cut up a

small/medium size head of cabbage and put it> in a> mixing bowl> 2. stir in

1 heaping tsp of natural sea salt> until coated> 3. let it sit for 30

minutes (the salt will bring out> the moisture)> 4. stuff into a quart jar>

5. fill most of the> way full with pure/filtered water> 6. cover and

set aside for about> 3 days> 7. refrigerate and eat 1tsp with every meal> >

the result> is a perfect probiotic that will actually help digest food> better,

and> is particularly important for people with malabsorption.> > --Kurt

It's the future, it's here, and it's free: Windows Live Mail beta

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[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

Yes I meant boiled. Hmmm fermented scrambled eggs, don't even want to

think about that.

Yes, almost any vegetable, I would avoid potatoes and any others that

must be cooked, but probably most others would work. Pickles are

cucumbers, so they are fine for fermenting.

Also, probably you would want to cut or dice some of the larger

vegetables, so the brine can get into them fast enough that they won't

spoil.

--Kurt

RE: Fermentation, systemic fungus, was

Model for CFS primary factors

Hi Kurt,

I have 2 more questions for you. When you say eggs, I am assuming you

mean hard boiled? Secondly, you say almost any vegetable, what wouldn't

you use?

Thanks again,

DawnYes, almost any vegetable, even eggs.> --Kurt> > Hi Kurt,> > Thanks

for posting it again. I did see this message, but I must have> been

confused. The recipe says to use cabbage, does it also work with>

cucumbers? (I am allergic/hypersensitive to cabbage and cannot eat it>

in any form.) Thanks again for your help and your patience (I know it>

can be frustrating when dealing with people with brain fog :~))> >

Thank you,> Dawn> > > > Dawn,> I just posted this a few messages ago,

but here it is again:>> > Here is one recipe I have used with success>

that just uses salt> alone.> > 1. cut up a small/medium size head

of cabbage and put it> in a> mixing bowl> 2. stir in 1 heaping tsp

of natural sea salt> until coated> 3. let it sit for 30 minutes

(the salt will bring out> the moisture)> 4. stuff into a quart jar>

5. fill most of the> way full with pure/filtered water> 6.

cover and set aside for about> 3 days> 7. refrigerate and eat 1tsp

with every meal> > the result> is a perfect probiotic that will actually

help digest food> better, and> is particularly important for people with

malabsorption.> > --Kurt

It's the future, it's here, and it's free: Windows Live Mail beta

http://www2.imagine-msn.com/minisites/mail/Default.aspx?locale=en-us

[Guest guest]

Hi Kurt,

Thanks again! I really do appreciate your help and your patience. :~)

-Dawn

Hi Dawn,> Yes I meant boiled. Hmmm fermented scrambled eggs, don't even want

to> think about that.> > Yes, almost any vegetable, I would avoid potatoes and

any others that> must be cooked, but probably most others would work. Pickles

are> cucumbers, so they are fine for fermenting.> > Also, probably you would

want to cut or dice some of the larger> vegetables, so the brine can get into

them fast enough that they won't> spoil.> --Kurt

It's the future, it's here, and it's free: Windows Live Mail beta

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