Re: The Race between Bacteria and the Immune System

[Guest guest]

The following explains what's going on with many of us.

http://www.totaljoints.info/BACTERIA_information.htm

It's also a good argument for NEVER having root canals or dental

implants. Especially when you consider the non-sterile environment in

dentist offices.

Accidents, fractures, and especially common dental procedures, are all

means by which bacteria can be introduced into non-protected areas.

Necrotic bone and sinuses are equivalent to the artificial devices

described in this article as they cannot defend themselves against

ordinary bacteria.

penny

--------------------------

Penny,

Would you include fillings and tooth extractions among " common dental

procedures " ?

And, why are the sinuses unable to defend themselves?

Best,

Zippy

[Guest guest]

Penny,

>

> Would you include fillings and tooth extractions among " common

dental procedures " ?

>

> And, why are the sinuses unable to defend themselves?

Yes, definitely. Even deep cleanings. Anything that introduces

bacteria into the blood stream or areas where there's little immune

system assistance.

The sinus walls don't have good blood flow so immune system

assistance is minimal. Bio films love the sinuses because they're

easy to grab onto. The sinuses are also susceptible to bacteria like

Actinomyces that can slowly wormhole their way into the walls and

eat away at them. Actino can create fistulas between the sinuses and

the jaw. As the sinus walls become more inflammed, they create a

layer of stuff that gums up the hair-like cillia and prevents bugs

from being moved out. The cillia is already working against gravity

to push mucous up and out of the maxillary sinuses. Add a layer of

thick slime or inflamed sinus walls to it and you've got problems.

The sinus openings also become inflamed and swollen making them even

smaller than they already are and even harder for the mucous to

carry the bacteria out of the sinuses. It's a wonderful environment

for bacteria to thrive and infections develop.

So the sinuses are potentially well protected cess pools of

infection, pumping toxins into your body, doing damage to all kinds

of sensitive areas which they have immediate proximity to. The

brain, the CNS, the thyroid (studies show thryoid infection/cancer

can be related to infected sphenoid sinuses). And the really crazy

thing is, you may not even know you've got the problem. I have no

obvious signs of sinus infection, and yet my CT scans showed

seriously diseased sinuses.

Also, many of us have dental roots that have penetrated the sinus

walls. Dental bacteria can also introduce bacteria into the sinuses

in this situation.

I recently had a new procedure done, called baloon sinuplasty.

Widens the openings with much less trauma than traditional

endoscopic surgery. No packing, no splints involved. They sucked out

the goop and sprayed them with antimicrobials. I even had to have my

sphenoids done, which they claim is rare, but when you look up

sphenoid infections, you see that a lot of our symptoms sound like

sphenoid infection. And the bad news is, people dxd with sphenoid

infections (not that many) tend to die of them. :-(

So I went for a check up last week and my ENT scoped me and said

things looked pretty good, but she sent a culture to the lab at my

request. It came back pseudomonas, resistant to every oral

antibiotic they could test against it. So I'm doing betadine rinses,

hoping that will kill it. She said the only other option is

hospitalization with i.v. abx. Which may be exactly what I need to

do.

This is the kind of thing that's making so many sick, and they

haven't any idea. Most ENTs can't be bothered to see what's really

causing their patient's illnesses. They just want to do surgery. And

we all know how many people don't really improve with sinus surgery.

penny

[Guest guest]

Teatree oil kills psueodomonas. You could make a 10% dilute solution

with a high quality teatree and spray it up there and drain it up

there too.

>

> Penny,

> >

> > Would you include fillings and tooth extractions among " common

> dental procedures " ?

> >

> > And, why are the sinuses unable to defend themselves?

>

>

> Yes, definitely. Even deep cleanings. Anything that introduces

> bacteria into the blood stream or areas where there's little immune

> system assistance.

>

> The sinus walls don't have good blood flow so immune system

> assistance is minimal. Bio films love the sinuses because they're

> easy to grab onto. The sinuses are also susceptible to bacteria like

> Actinomyces that can slowly wormhole their way into the walls and

> eat away at them. Actino can create fistulas between the sinuses and

> the jaw. As the sinus walls become more inflammed, they create a

> layer of stuff that gums up the hair-like cillia and prevents bugs

> from being moved out. The cillia is already working against gravity

> to push mucous up and out of the maxillary sinuses. Add a layer of

> thick slime or inflamed sinus walls to it and you've got problems.

> The sinus openings also become inflamed and swollen making them even

> smaller than they already are and even harder for the mucous to

> carry the bacteria out of the sinuses. It's a wonderful environment

> for bacteria to thrive and infections develop.

>

> So the sinuses are potentially well protected cess pools of

> infection, pumping toxins into your body, doing damage to all kinds

> of sensitive areas which they have immediate proximity to. The

> brain, the CNS, the thyroid (studies show thryoid infection/cancer

> can be related to infected sphenoid sinuses). And the really crazy

> thing is, you may not even know you've got the problem. I have no

> obvious signs of sinus infection, and yet my CT scans showed

> seriously diseased sinuses.

>

> Also, many of us have dental roots that have penetrated the sinus

> walls. Dental bacteria can also introduce bacteria into the sinuses

> in this situation.

>

> I recently had a new procedure done, called baloon sinuplasty.

> Widens the openings with much less trauma than traditional

> endoscopic surgery. No packing, no splints involved. They sucked out

> the goop and sprayed them with antimicrobials. I even had to have my

> sphenoids done, which they claim is rare, but when you look up

> sphenoid infections, you see that a lot of our symptoms sound like

> sphenoid infection. And the bad news is, people dxd with sphenoid

> infections (not that many) tend to die of them. :-(

>

> So I went for a check up last week and my ENT scoped me and said

> things looked pretty good, but she sent a culture to the lab at my

> request. It came back pseudomonas, resistant to every oral

> antibiotic they could test against it. So I'm doing betadine rinses,

> hoping that will kill it. She said the only other option is

> hospitalization with i.v. abx. Which may be exactly what I need to

> do.

>

> This is the kind of thing that's making so many sick, and they

> haven't any idea. Most ENTs can't be bothered to see what's really

> causing their patient's illnesses. They just want to do surgery. And

> we all know how many people don't really improve with sinus surgery.

>

> penny

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jill. I'm going to try the Betadine. Then maybe add some tea

tree oil. Would be nice to have an oil that might perhaps stay put

for a little while although I'm wary of putting anything in my

sinuses. Even the betadine rinse makes me nervous, because

pseudomonas loves moisture. But can't do it without the water. The

betadine to water ratio I'm using now hurts like you-know-what. Next

rinse I'll add salt, see if that helps. I'm supposed to do 16 oz

twice daily, and so far I managed about 3 ounces before I felt like

I was going to pass out. I'm telling you...ouch!

penny

> >

> > Penny,

> > >

> > > Would you include fillings and tooth extractions among " common

> > dental procedures " ?

> > >

> > > And, why are the sinuses unable to defend themselves?

> >

> >

> > Yes, definitely. Even deep cleanings. Anything that introduces

> > bacteria into the blood stream or areas where there's little

immune

> > system assistance.

> >

> > The sinus walls don't have good blood flow so immune system

> > assistance is minimal. Bio films love the sinuses because

they're

> > easy to grab onto. The sinuses are also susceptible to bacteria

like

> > Actinomyces that can slowly wormhole their way into the walls

and

> > eat away at them. Actino can create fistulas between the sinuses

and

> > the jaw. As the sinus walls become more inflammed, they create a

> > layer of stuff that gums up the hair-like cillia and prevents

bugs

> > from being moved out. The cillia is already working against

gravity

> > to push mucous up and out of the maxillary sinuses. Add a layer

of

> > thick slime or inflamed sinus walls to it and you've got

problems.

> > The sinus openings also become inflamed and swollen making them

even

> > smaller than they already are and even harder for the mucous to

> > carry the bacteria out of the sinuses. It's a wonderful

environment

> > for bacteria to thrive and infections develop.

> >

> > So the sinuses are potentially well protected cess pools of

> > infection, pumping toxins into your body, doing damage to all

kinds

> > of sensitive areas which they have immediate proximity to. The

> > brain, the CNS, the thyroid (studies show thryoid

infection/cancer

> > can be related to infected sphenoid sinuses). And the really

crazy

> > thing is, you may not even know you've got the problem. I have

no

> > obvious signs of sinus infection, and yet my CT scans showed

> > seriously diseased sinuses.

> >

> > Also, many of us have dental roots that have penetrated the

sinus

> > walls. Dental bacteria can also introduce bacteria into the

sinuses

> > in this situation.

> >

> > I recently had a new procedure done, called baloon sinuplasty.

> > Widens the openings with much less trauma than traditional

> > endoscopic surgery. No packing, no splints involved. They sucked

out

> > the goop and sprayed them with antimicrobials. I even had to

have my

> > sphenoids done, which they claim is rare, but when you look up

> > sphenoid infections, you see that a lot of our symptoms sound

like

> > sphenoid infection. And the bad news is, people dxd with

sphenoid

> > infections (not that many) tend to die of them. :-(

> >

> > So I went for a check up last week and my ENT scoped me and said

> > things looked pretty good, but she sent a culture to the lab at

my

> > request. It came back pseudomonas, resistant to every oral

> > antibiotic they could test against it. So I'm doing betadine

rinses,

> > hoping that will kill it. She said the only other option is

> > hospitalization with i.v. abx. Which may be exactly what I need

to

> > do.

> >

> > This is the kind of thing that's making so many sick, and they

> > haven't any idea. Most ENTs can't be bothered to see what's

really

> > causing their patient's illnesses. They just want to do surgery.

And

> > we all know how many people don't really improve with sinus

surgery.

> >

> > penny

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm reading in detail and taking notes on 3 aromatherapy/essential oil

textbooks right now, that cite studies etc.

Your teatree has to be low in cineole (irritant) and high in

terpineole (kills stuff).

Psuedonomas is resistant to many things including many essential oils

that kill staph, strep etc, but not to teatree oil.

I would suggest ordering from " nature's gift " (google them).

Then I really am not sure what to dilute it in, I guess distilled

water? A ten percent dilution seems to be commonly used in studies and

teatree is safe for skin and mucus membranes supposedly.

I wouldn't use it WITH the betadine.

The other thing you can do is inhale the steam. You could do that

hourly. I've done that every 20 minutes for beginning ear or bronchial

infections.

I am researching this as I want to completely clear up chronic

urethritis that has been off and on for 18 years, mostly mild, but

sometimes really bothersome, especially after I got an actual cystitis

the summer before last. Recently the last 6 weeks or so, it has

really bothered me with my PMS. I found that amoxicillin helped but

did not cure, neither did cipro, and I hate antibiotics. Essential

oils get into the blood within 10 minutes of being on the skin, and

essential oil suppositories are used for cystitis (vaginally) in

europe. I also want to fix my jaw--I have an infected socket, I'm

SURE, from a bad tooth extraction last November. I'll need to get it

cleaned out but then I'm going to insist they douse it with an

essential oil mixture that I'm going to make.

Anyway, I would suggest steaming and spraying with teatree would be

more effective. There was one case where they cleared up some guy's

osteomyletis in his tibia, antibiotic resistant, by cleaning it out

one more time and then putting an essential oil mixture into the

'beads' that you put in there to make new bone grow, and then he

healed up fine.

> > >

> > > Penny,

> > > >

> > > > Would you include fillings and tooth extractions among " common

> > > dental procedures " ?

> > > >

> > > > And, why are the sinuses unable to defend themselves?

> > >

> > >

> > > Yes, definitely. Even deep cleanings. Anything that introduces

> > > bacteria into the blood stream or areas where there's little

> immune

> > > system assistance.

> > >

> > > The sinus walls don't have good blood flow so immune system

> > > assistance is minimal. Bio films love the sinuses because

> they're

> > > easy to grab onto. The sinuses are also susceptible to bacteria

> like

> > > Actinomyces that can slowly wormhole their way into the walls

> and

> > > eat away at them. Actino can create fistulas between the sinuses

> and

> > > the jaw. As the sinus walls become more inflammed, they create a

> > > layer of stuff that gums up the hair-like cillia and prevents

> bugs

> > > from being moved out. The cillia is already working against

> gravity

> > > to push mucous up and out of the maxillary sinuses. Add a layer

> of

> > > thick slime or inflamed sinus walls to it and you've got

> problems.

> > > The sinus openings also become inflamed and swollen making them

> even

> > > smaller than they already are and even harder for the mucous to

> > > carry the bacteria out of the sinuses. It's a wonderful

> environment

> > > for bacteria to thrive and infections develop.

> > >

> > > So the sinuses are potentially well protected cess pools of

> > > infection, pumping toxins into your body, doing damage to all

> kinds

> > > of sensitive areas which they have immediate proximity to. The

> > > brain, the CNS, the thyroid (studies show thryoid

> infection/cancer

> > > can be related to infected sphenoid sinuses). And the really

> crazy

> > > thing is, you may not even know you've got the problem. I have

> no

> > > obvious signs of sinus infection, and yet my CT scans showed

> > > seriously diseased sinuses.

> > >

> > > Also, many of us have dental roots that have penetrated the

> sinus

> > > walls. Dental bacteria can also introduce bacteria into the

> sinuses

> > > in this situation.

> > >

> > > I recently had a new procedure done, called baloon sinuplasty.

> > > Widens the openings with much less trauma than traditional

> > > endoscopic surgery. No packing, no splints involved. They sucked

> out

> > > the goop and sprayed them with antimicrobials. I even had to

> have my

> > > sphenoids done, which they claim is rare, but when you look up

> > > sphenoid infections, you see that a lot of our symptoms sound

> like

> > > sphenoid infection. And the bad news is, people dxd with

> sphenoid

> > > infections (not that many) tend to die of them. :-(

> > >

> > > So I went for a check up last week and my ENT scoped me and said

> > > things looked pretty good, but she sent a culture to the lab at

> my

> > > request. It came back pseudomonas, resistant to every oral

> > > antibiotic they could test against it. So I'm doing betadine

> rinses,

> > > hoping that will kill it. She said the only other option is

> > > hospitalization with i.v. abx. Which may be exactly what I need

> to

> > > do.

> > >

> > > This is the kind of thing that's making so many sick, and they

> > > haven't any idea. Most ENTs can't be bothered to see what's

> really

> > > causing their patient's illnesses. They just want to do surgery.

> And

> > > we all know how many people don't really improve with sinus

> surgery.

> > >

> > > penny

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

P.S. I should add that, there were studies on chronic

cystitis/vaginitis using two specific probiotic strains vaginally and

orally that showed clearance of longstanding problems very quickly. So

I'm researching that too and I'm really interested in probiotics. I've

added theralac (exactly as its spelled) the last few days in addition

to customprobiotics and the theralac seems good. Doesn't bother me at

all and I think it may be helping me somewhat.

If you're colonized in one place (sinuses) you're likely colonized in

others, at least mildly. Seems to me probiotics would be important

esp. if you've had years of antibiotics.

Also there is a discussion of essential oils for lyme on lymenet (from

which I was banned for making some statements about microbial

intelligence, I guess. I still don't know exactly why I was banned and

Lou, who started the site, won't tell me, though he did answer someone

else's email saying I violated terms of use.) In reading this

aromatherapy book there is an essential oil used in the Amazon for

malaria. I haven't seen a lot about essential oils, malaria (ie

babesia) or syphilis/leptospirosis (ie spirochetes/lyme) but I'm

hoping by the time I'm done with these 3 books I'll know better.

> > > >

> > > > Penny,

> > > > >

> > > > > Would you include fillings and tooth extractions among " common

> > > > dental procedures " ?

> > > > >

> > > > > And, why are the sinuses unable to defend themselves?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes, definitely. Even deep cleanings. Anything that introduces

> > > > bacteria into the blood stream or areas where there's little

> > immune

> > > > system assistance.

> > > >

> > > > The sinus walls don't have good blood flow so immune system

> > > > assistance is minimal. Bio films love the sinuses because

> > they're

> > > > easy to grab onto. The sinuses are also susceptible to bacteria

> > like

> > > > Actinomyces that can slowly wormhole their way into the walls

> > and

> > > > eat away at them. Actino can create fistulas between the sinuses

> > and

> > > > the jaw. As the sinus walls become more inflammed, they create a

> > > > layer of stuff that gums up the hair-like cillia and prevents

> > bugs

> > > > from being moved out. The cillia is already working against

> > gravity

> > > > to push mucous up and out of the maxillary sinuses. Add a layer

> > of

> > > > thick slime or inflamed sinus walls to it and you've got

> > problems.

> > > > The sinus openings also become inflamed and swollen making them

> > even

> > > > smaller than they already are and even harder for the mucous to

> > > > carry the bacteria out of the sinuses. It's a wonderful

> > environment

> > > > for bacteria to thrive and infections develop.

> > > >

> > > > So the sinuses are potentially well protected cess pools of

> > > > infection, pumping toxins into your body, doing damage to all

> > kinds

> > > > of sensitive areas which they have immediate proximity to. The

> > > > brain, the CNS, the thyroid (studies show thryoid

> > infection/cancer

> > > > can be related to infected sphenoid sinuses). And the really

> > crazy

> > > > thing is, you may not even know you've got the problem. I have

> > no

> > > > obvious signs of sinus infection, and yet my CT scans showed

> > > > seriously diseased sinuses.

> > > >

> > > > Also, many of us have dental roots that have penetrated the

> > sinus

> > > > walls. Dental bacteria can also introduce bacteria into the

> > sinuses

> > > > in this situation.

> > > >

> > > > I recently had a new procedure done, called baloon sinuplasty.

> > > > Widens the openings with much less trauma than traditional

> > > > endoscopic surgery. No packing, no splints involved. They sucked

> > out

> > > > the goop and sprayed them with antimicrobials. I even had to

> > have my

> > > > sphenoids done, which they claim is rare, but when you look up

> > > > sphenoid infections, you see that a lot of our symptoms sound

> > like

> > > > sphenoid infection. And the bad news is, people dxd with

> > sphenoid

> > > > infections (not that many) tend to die of them. :-(

> > > >

> > > > So I went for a check up last week and my ENT scoped me and said

> > > > things looked pretty good, but she sent a culture to the lab at

> > my

> > > > request. It came back pseudomonas, resistant to every oral

> > > > antibiotic they could test against it. So I'm doing betadine

> > rinses,

> > > > hoping that will kill it. She said the only other option is

> > > > hospitalization with i.v. abx. Which may be exactly what I need

> > to

> > > > do.

> > > >

> > > > This is the kind of thing that's making so many sick, and they

> > > > haven't any idea. Most ENTs can't be bothered to see what's

> > really

> > > > causing their patient's illnesses. They just want to do surgery.

> > And

> > > > we all know how many people don't really improve with sinus

> > surgery.

> > > >

> > > > penny

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

would you say that recurring cystitis and recurring vaginal thrush

are indicators of a likely candida overgrowth, or of a likelihood of

anything else, for that matter?

all the best

yvonne

> > > > >

> > > > > Penny,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Would you include fillings and tooth extractions

among " common

> > > > > dental procedures " ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And, why are the sinuses unable to defend themselves?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, definitely. Even deep cleanings. Anything that

introduces

> > > > > bacteria into the blood stream or areas where there's

little

> > > immune

> > > > > system assistance.

> > > > >

> > > > > The sinus walls don't have good blood flow so immune system

> > > > > assistance is minimal. Bio films love the sinuses because

> > > they're

> > > > > easy to grab onto. The sinuses are also susceptible to

bacteria

> > > like

> > > > > Actinomyces that can slowly wormhole their way into the

walls

> > > and

> > > > > eat away at them. Actino can create fistulas between the

sinuses

> > > and

> > > > > the jaw. As the sinus walls become more inflammed, they

create a

> > > > > layer of stuff that gums up the hair-like cillia and

prevents

> > > bugs

> > > > > from being moved out. The cillia is already working against

> > > gravity

> > > > > to push mucous up and out of the maxillary sinuses. Add a

layer

> > > of

> > > > > thick slime or inflamed sinus walls to it and you've got

> > > problems.

> > > > > The sinus openings also become inflamed and swollen making

them

> > > even

> > > > > smaller than they already are and even harder for the

mucous to

> > > > > carry the bacteria out of the sinuses. It's a wonderful

> > > environment

> > > > > for bacteria to thrive and infections develop.

> > > > >

> > > > > So the sinuses are potentially well protected cess pools of

> > > > > infection, pumping toxins into your body, doing damage to

all

> > > kinds

> > > > > of sensitive areas which they have immediate proximity to.

The

> > > > > brain, the CNS, the thyroid (studies show thryoid

> > > infection/cancer

> > > > > can be related to infected sphenoid sinuses). And the

really

> > > crazy

> > > > > thing is, you may not even know you've got the problem. I

have

> > > no

> > > > > obvious signs of sinus infection, and yet my CT scans

showed

> > > > > seriously diseased sinuses.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, many of us have dental roots that have penetrated the

> > > sinus

> > > > > walls. Dental bacteria can also introduce bacteria into the

> > > sinuses

> > > > > in this situation.

> > > > >

> > > > > I recently had a new procedure done, called baloon

sinuplasty.

> > > > > Widens the openings with much less trauma than traditional

> > > > > endoscopic surgery. No packing, no splints involved. They

sucked

> > > out

> > > > > the goop and sprayed them with antimicrobials. I even had

to

> > > have my

> > > > > sphenoids done, which they claim is rare, but when you look

up

> > > > > sphenoid infections, you see that a lot of our symptoms

sound

> > > like

> > > > > sphenoid infection. And the bad news is, people dxd with

> > > sphenoid

> > > > > infections (not that many) tend to die of them. :-(

> > > > >

> > > > > So I went for a check up last week and my ENT scoped me and

said

> > > > > things looked pretty good, but she sent a culture to the

lab at

> > > my

> > > > > request. It came back pseudomonas, resistant to every oral

> > > > > antibiotic they could test against it. So I'm doing

betadine

> > > rinses,

> > > > > hoping that will kill it. She said the only other option is

> > > > > hospitalization with i.v. abx. Which may be exactly what I

need

> > > to

> > > > > do.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is the kind of thing that's making so many sick, and

they

> > > > > haven't any idea. Most ENTs can't be bothered to see what's

> > > really

> > > > > causing their patient's illnesses. They just want to do

surgery.

> > > And

> > > > > we all know how many people don't really improve with sinus

> > > surgery.

> > > > >

> > > > > penny

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I personally don't have recurrent vaginal thrush, but I do think

there may be a mixed flora of fungi and bacteria in my bladder and

who knows, in my gut probably.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Penny,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Would you include fillings and tooth extractions

> among " common

> > > > > > dental procedures " ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And, why are the sinuses unable to defend themselves?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes, definitely. Even deep cleanings. Anything that

> introduces

> > > > > > bacteria into the blood stream or areas where there's

> little

> > > > immune

> > > > > > system assistance.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The sinus walls don't have good blood flow so immune system

> > > > > > assistance is minimal. Bio films love the sinuses because

> > > > they're

> > > > > > easy to grab onto. The sinuses are also susceptible to

> bacteria

> > > > like

> > > > > > Actinomyces that can slowly wormhole their way into the

> walls

> > > > and

> > > > > > eat away at them. Actino can create fistulas between the

> sinuses

> > > > and

> > > > > > the jaw. As the sinus walls become more inflammed, they

> create a

> > > > > > layer of stuff that gums up the hair-like cillia and

> prevents

> > > > bugs

> > > > > > from being moved out. The cillia is already working against

> > > > gravity

> > > > > > to push mucous up and out of the maxillary sinuses. Add a

> layer

> > > > of

> > > > > > thick slime or inflamed sinus walls to it and you've got

> > > > problems.

> > > > > > The sinus openings also become inflamed and swollen making

> them

> > > > even

> > > > > > smaller than they already are and even harder for the

> mucous to

> > > > > > carry the bacteria out of the sinuses. It's a wonderful

> > > > environment

> > > > > > for bacteria to thrive and infections develop.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So the sinuses are potentially well protected cess pools of

> > > > > > infection, pumping toxins into your body, doing damage to

> all

> > > > kinds

> > > > > > of sensitive areas which they have immediate proximity to.

> The

> > > > > > brain, the CNS, the thyroid (studies show thryoid

> > > > infection/cancer

> > > > > > can be related to infected sphenoid sinuses). And the

> really

> > > > crazy

> > > > > > thing is, you may not even know you've got the problem. I

> have

> > > > no

> > > > > > obvious signs of sinus infection, and yet my CT scans

> showed

> > > > > > seriously diseased sinuses.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also, many of us have dental roots that have penetrated the

> > > > sinus

> > > > > > walls. Dental bacteria can also introduce bacteria into the

> > > > sinuses

> > > > > > in this situation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I recently had a new procedure done, called baloon

> sinuplasty.

> > > > > > Widens the openings with much less trauma than traditional

> > > > > > endoscopic surgery. No packing, no splints involved. They

> sucked

> > > > out

> > > > > > the goop and sprayed them with antimicrobials. I even had

> to

> > > > have my

> > > > > > sphenoids done, which they claim is rare, but when you look

> up

> > > > > > sphenoid infections, you see that a lot of our symptoms

> sound

> > > > like

> > > > > > sphenoid infection. And the bad news is, people dxd with

> > > > sphenoid

> > > > > > infections (not that many) tend to die of them. :-(

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So I went for a check up last week and my ENT scoped me and

> said

> > > > > > things looked pretty good, but she sent a culture to the

> lab at

> > > > my

> > > > > > request. It came back pseudomonas, resistant to every oral

> > > > > > antibiotic they could test against it. So I'm doing

> betadine

> > > > rinses,

> > > > > > hoping that will kill it. She said the only other option is

> > > > > > hospitalization with i.v. abx. Which may be exactly what I

> need

> > > > to

> > > > > > do.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is the kind of thing that's making so many sick, and

> they

> > > > > > haven't any idea. Most ENTs can't be bothered to see what's

> > > > really

> > > > > > causing their patient's illnesses. They just want to do

> surgery.

> > > > And

> > > > > > we all know how many people don't really improve with sinus

> > > > surgery.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > penny

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

what worries me about essential oils is whether they might have

contaminants that I don't want in my sinuses. I've heard of so many

products that when tested aren't what they claim to be, even out

of " reputable " companies.

I've done all kinds of probiotics. Switch them around, as bacteria

also seem to become resistant to them. They may help a little, but

nothing sinificant for me. I know others who are helped immensely by

them.

penny

> > > > >

> > > > > Penny,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Would you include fillings and tooth extractions

among " common

> > > > > dental procedures " ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And, why are the sinuses unable to defend themselves?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, definitely. Even deep cleanings. Anything that

introduces

> > > > > bacteria into the blood stream or areas where there's

little

> > > immune

> > > > > system assistance.

> > > > >

> > > > > The sinus walls don't have good blood flow so immune

system

> > > > > assistance is minimal. Bio films love the sinuses because

> > > they're

> > > > > easy to grab onto. The sinuses are also susceptible to

bacteria

> > > like

> > > > > Actinomyces that can slowly wormhole their way into the

walls

> > > and

> > > > > eat away at them. Actino can create fistulas between the

sinuses

> > > and

> > > > > the jaw. As the sinus walls become more inflammed, they

create a

> > > > > layer of stuff that gums up the hair-like cillia and

prevents

> > > bugs

> > > > > from being moved out. The cillia is already working

against

> > > gravity

> > > > > to push mucous up and out of the maxillary sinuses. Add a

layer

> > > of

> > > > > thick slime or inflamed sinus walls to it and you've got

> > > problems.

> > > > > The sinus openings also become inflamed and swollen making

them

> > > even

> > > > > smaller than they already are and even harder for the

mucous to

> > > > > carry the bacteria out of the sinuses. It's a wonderful

> > > environment

> > > > > for bacteria to thrive and infections develop.

> > > > >

> > > > > So the sinuses are potentially well protected cess pools

of

> > > > > infection, pumping toxins into your body, doing damage to

all

> > > kinds

> > > > > of sensitive areas which they have immediate proximity to.

The

> > > > > brain, the CNS, the thyroid (studies show thryoid

> > > infection/cancer

> > > > > can be related to infected sphenoid sinuses). And the

really

> > > crazy

> > > > > thing is, you may not even know you've got the problem. I

have

> > > no

> > > > > obvious signs of sinus infection, and yet my CT scans

showed

> > > > > seriously diseased sinuses.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, many of us have dental roots that have penetrated

the

> > > sinus

> > > > > walls. Dental bacteria can also introduce bacteria into

the

> > > sinuses

> > > > > in this situation.

> > > > >

> > > > > I recently had a new procedure done, called baloon

sinuplasty.

> > > > > Widens the openings with much less trauma than traditional

> > > > > endoscopic surgery. No packing, no splints involved. They

sucked

> > > out

> > > > > the goop and sprayed them with antimicrobials. I even had

to

> > > have my

> > > > > sphenoids done, which they claim is rare, but when you

look up

> > > > > sphenoid infections, you see that a lot of our symptoms

sound

> > > like

> > > > > sphenoid infection. And the bad news is, people dxd with

> > > sphenoid

> > > > > infections (not that many) tend to die of them. :-(

> > > > >

> > > > > So I went for a check up last week and my ENT scoped me

and said

> > > > > things looked pretty good, but she sent a culture to the

lab at

> > > my

> > > > > request. It came back pseudomonas, resistant to every oral

> > > > > antibiotic they could test against it. So I'm doing

betadine

> > > rinses,

> > > > > hoping that will kill it. She said the only other option

is

> > > > > hospitalization with i.v. abx. Which may be exactly what I

need

> > > to

> > > > > do.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is the kind of thing that's making so many sick, and

they

> > > > > haven't any idea. Most ENTs can't be bothered to see

what's

> > > really

> > > > > causing their patient's illnesses. They just want to do

surgery.

> > > And

> > > > > we all know how many people don't really improve with

sinus

> > > surgery.

> > > > >

> > > > > penny

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Penny,

First, I need to tell you that I have not been completely following this post.

So, if what I say is way off base, please disregard it. But when I noticed you

mentioned putting things in your sinuses, first I want to say that you are right

to be concerned, it can be dangerous. Your sinuses, as I am sure you know, are

very close to your brain. Secondly, I have found a product that my ENT

recommended to me. My whole family now uses it, including extended family. My

husband used to suffer horribly from chronic sinus infections and nasal

allergies. He even had surgery, which helped a little, but he still suffered

quite a bit. Since we have started using SInus Rinse, he has not needed an

antibiotic for a sinus infection yet. That has been about four years now. It

has been a real blessing to us. Whenever one of us just starts to get any kind

of head cold/ congestion, we use it right away. It has saved us so much money

(in Dr visits and prescriptions) and our bodies are healthier for it to. It is

made by Neil Med. We bought ours online, but I know that a lot of local drug

stores are starting to carry it now. I can say this about it, of all the people

I have told about it, I can't think of one who tried it and isn't still using

it. And no, I am not selling it and I get nothing from you buying it (in case

someone wants to know, I just believe it is a really good product).

Take care,

Dawn M

what worries me about essential oils is whether they might have > contaminants

that I don't want in my sinuses. I've heard of so many > products that when

tested aren't what they claim to be, even out > of " reputable " companies.> >

I've done all kinds of probiotics. Switch them around, as bacteria > also seem

to become resistant to them. They may help a little, but > nothing sinificant

for me. I know others who are helped immensely by > them.> > penny

Join the next generation of Hotmail and you could win the adventure of a

lifetime

http://www.imagine-msn.com/minisites/sweepstakes/mail/register.aspx

[Guest guest]

On May 11, 2006, at 9:45 PM, Dawn Munn wrote:

> Secondly, I have found a product that my ENT recommended to me. My

> whole family now uses it, including extended family. My husband

> used to suffer horribly from chronic sinus infections and nasal

> allergies. He even had surgery, which helped a little, but he

> still suffered quite a bit. Since we have started using SInus

> Rinse, he has not needed an antibiotic for a sinus infection yet.

> That has been about four years now. It has been a real blessing to

> us. Whenever one of us just starts to get any kind of head cold/

> congestion, we use it right away. It has saved us so much money

> (in Dr visits and prescriptions) and our bodies are healthier for

> it to. It is made by Neil Med. We bought ours online, but I know

> that a lot of local drug stores are starting to carry it now. I

> can say this about it, of all the people I have told about it, I

> can't think of one who tried it and isn't still using it. And no,

> I am not selling it and I get nothing from you buying it (in case

> someone wants to know, I just believe it is a really good product).

This is a modern version of a very ancient ayurvedic sinus remedy

called jala neti. If you Google those words, you'll find plenty of

sites on this. The full jala neti process is actually a lot more

sophisticated than the modern sinus irrigation, and is worth looking

into if (like me) you're prone to chronic sinus problems.

The technique involves using a neti pot -- a small steel or ceramic

teapot that has a special nozzle that fits tightly up against the

nostril. They typically cost $15-20. It's filled with slightly-warmer-

than-body-temp salt water. You bend over the sink, tilt your head to

one side, and pour the water into the uphill nostril. It goes up into

the sinuses, across to the other side -- (surprise! yes, it feels

weird...but you keep breathing through your mouth, and it passes) --

and soon starts draining out the downhill nostril. When half the pot

is gone, you switch sides and reverse the flow. When it's done, you

hold one nostril shut while blowing hard into the sink a few times,

then do the other side. This dries the nasal passages, and gunk that

comes out is always amazing.

This not only does an amazingly effective job of draining the

sinuses; the warm, flowing water also sets up a little venturi effect

in the throat that will unclog gluey eustachian tubes if you do this

regularly. And the saline soothes inflamed mucous membranes, and also

changes the pH of the nasal environment so it's a lot less attractive

to the bacteria that cause the infections.

I do this every day when infections are raging, down to 2-3 times a

week for maintenance. And like Dawn, I've pretty much given up having

to do antibiotics on account of my nose. A lot of ayurveda devotees

swear that it actually makes you think more clearly; could be. I just

feel lighter and more open in the middle of my head.

Best part is that they've been doing this in India for several

thousand years, so its safety is pretty well beyond doubt.

Sara

[Guest guest]

Marge at _www.naturesgift.com_ (http://www.naturesgift.com) is very

knowledgable with high quality oils.

Steam/vaporizing tea tree oil is the common way of inducing it into the

sinuses. Just make a pot of very hot water, add a few drops of tea tree oil,

put

your head over the pot and cover with a towel and breathe in the fumes

deeply for several minutes.

I made a neighbor with bad fungal sinus infections a sniffy bottle. Just

diluted tea tree oil 50% in vodka and had him inhale deeply into each nostril,

while closing the other, several times and doing that four times a day. That

can be enough to get the oils into the sinuses. He kept the vial in his

pocket and so could use it throughout the day. THis simple technique along

with

a diet change cleared his infection of two+ years. He had been on numerous

antibiotics and had surgery to cure this sinus problem prior. Nothing but tea

tree oil since, for this past year.

I don't know about whether essential oil of Oregano is effective again

pseudomonas, but, I am prone to sinus infections and when things get congested,

etc., I dilute the Oregano to 10% with olive oil, place a few drops on a small

piece of bread and hold the bread cube between my teeth and breathe deeply

many times until the bread disintegrates. I can feel the oregano both in my

lungs and sinuses. Doing this three times a day for a couple of days it all it

takes.

Hope this helps

mjh

From: " jill1313 " jenbooks13@...

Date: Thu May 11, 2006 3:59pm(PDT)

Subject: Re: The Race between Bacteria and the Immune System

I'm reading in detail and taking notes on 3 aromatherapy/essential oil

textbooks right now, that cite studies etc.

Your teatree has to be low in cineole (irritant) and high in

terpineole (kills stuff).

Psuedonomas is resistant to many things including many essential oils

that kill staph, strep etc, but not to teatree oil.

I would suggest ordering from " nature's gift " (google them).

Then I really am not sure what to dilute it in, I guess distilled

water? A ten percent dilution seems to be commonly used in studies and

teatree is safe for skin and mucus membranes supposedly.

I wouldn't use it WITH the betadine.

The other thing you can do is inhale the steam. You could do that

hourly. I've done that every 20 minutes for beginning ear or bronchial

infections.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

[Guest guest]

Yes, I really like nature's gift oils the best. I do not like young

living too much, and the stuff in the health food stores is surely

solvent-derived (BAD).

Marge's site tells you where the oil is from, her impression of this

year's batch, and whether organic, c02 or steam distilled.

I never realized you could put the oils in vodka and inhale. Thanx for

the tip.

I had a ton of wonderful oils from nature's gift in my bedroom when

the silicone caulk disaster occurred. And the way those essential oils

are, they're so volatile that even in glass bottles, if you keep them

in the same place ENCLOSED, they will start to absorb each other's

smells over time. So I really didn't trust that they might have

absorbed the horrible VOC's from the caulk, which are STILL in the

bedroom 5 months later. I can't go in there without getting brain

foggy and it looks like the only solution is to strip the floors and

walls and throw out the furniture, I'll probably also have to ditch my

$200 filter that is inside my Austin Air Filter. It is meant to absorb

VOCS and it probably did and is probably now a source of that crap.

In any case, I'ma bout to buy a new batch of oils from Nature's Gift.

I am now reading Kurt Schnaubelt's book and although it is not nearly

as scientific as the first book, and the first half is pretty useless

unless you want his philosophy, the rest is very interesting. It's

just interesting to see how plants use carbons to make different

terpenes (mono terpenes, diterpenes, sesquiterpenes) and how these

fall into different classes and so on. He also recommend a specific

brand of thyme, thyme vulgaris (sp?) that is much easier on the

body/skin than other thymes (which can be toxic).

One of the best antibacterial oils is cinnamon but I can't use that.

I've even gotten sensitive to lavender. Any oil that has esters that

can be precursors for my own hormones I am now sensitive to. I don't

know if that's because lyme/babesia have been so tough on my liver,

and/or if I have fungus that are making their own hormones, or who

knows what.

The oils I am gravitating toward are lemon, teatree, manuka (a milder

version of teatree), and maybe some of the rarer ones if I can find

them, that were discussed in Buckle's book. I also want peppermint,

but I'm not sure, I would probably only use one drop in a suppository.

I think I am going to combine them and see what happens.

I have found nothing so far for lyme. Farah on lymenet says eucalyptus

is good for babesia. Oh yes, that's another one that seems universally

cited for its good antibacterial action.

>

>

>

> Marge at _www.naturesgift.com_ (http://www.naturesgift.com)

is very

> knowledgable with high quality oils.

>

> Steam/vaporizing tea tree oil is the common way of inducing it into

the

> sinuses. Just make a pot of very hot water, add a few drops of tea

tree oil, put

> your head over the pot and cover with a towel and breathe in the fumes

> deeply for several minutes.

>

> I made a neighbor with bad fungal sinus infections a sniffy bottle.

Just

> diluted tea tree oil 50% in vodka and had him inhale deeply into

each nostril,

> while closing the other, several times and doing that four times a

day. That

> can be enough to get the oils into the sinuses. He kept the vial

in his

> pocket and so could use it throughout the day. THis simple

technique along with

> a diet change cleared his infection of two+ years. He had been on

numerous

> antibiotics and had surgery to cure this sinus problem prior.

Nothing but tea

> tree oil since, for this past year.

>

> I don't know about whether essential oil of Oregano is effective again

> pseudomonas, but, I am prone to sinus infections and when things get

congested,

> etc., I dilute the Oregano to 10% with olive oil, place a few drops

on a small

> piece of bread and hold the bread cube between my teeth and breathe

deeply

> many times until the bread disintegrates. I can feel the oregano

both in my

> lungs and sinuses. Doing this three times a day for a couple of

days it all it

> takes.

>

> Hope this helps

> mjh

>

> From: " jill1313 " jenbooks13@...

> Date: Thu May 11, 2006 3:59pm(PDT)

> Subject: Re: The Race between Bacteria and the Immune System

>

> I'm reading in detail and taking notes on 3 aromatherapy/essential oil

> textbooks right now, that cite studies etc.

> Your teatree has to be low in cineole (irritant) and high in

> terpineole (kills stuff).

> Psuedonomas is resistant to many things including many essential oils

> that kill staph, strep etc, but not to teatree oil.

> I would suggest ordering from " nature's gift " (google them).

> Then I really am not sure what to dilute it in, I guess distilled

> water? A ten percent dilution seems to be commonly used in studies and

> teatree is safe for skin and mucus membranes supposedly.

> I wouldn't use it WITH the betadine.

> The other thing you can do is inhale the steam. You could do that

> hourly. I've done that every 20 minutes for beginning ear or bronchial

> infections.

>

>

>

>

> mjh

> " The Basil Book "

> http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dawn,

I agree. I do like the idea of something that might stick to the

sinus walls a little better than water, and an oil might smother

pseudomonas because it loves dampness so much. However, I'd have to

feel really confident that the oil had been well tested before doing

something like that. For all I know, it could gum up the cillia as

well. I'll do some research, see what I can learn.

The Sinus Rinse sounds like a good product. I have something similar

called Breathe Ease, and I use it in a Hydropulse (Grossan

Irrigator - developed by Dr. Grossan, and ENT), which I really

recommend. My only concern about rinsing is the fact that

pseudomonas likes moisture, and I know I have a very entrenched

infection, which I've been fighting for years. Just 2 treatments

with the iodine and I feel like I've got water in my head. Hopefully

the iodine will be able to counter the moisture. I do have a friend

who's gotten rid of their pseudomonas with iodine. I'll have to see

how it goes for me.

penny

>

> Hi Penny,

>

> First, I need to tell you that I have not been completely

following this post. So, if what I say is way off base, please

disregard it. But when I noticed you mentioned putting things in

your sinuses, first I want to say that you are right to be

concerned, it can be dangerous. Your sinuses, as I am sure you

know, are very close to your brain. Secondly, I have found a

product that my ENT recommended to me. My whole family now uses it,

including extended family. My husband used to suffer horribly from

chronic sinus infections and nasal allergies. He even had surgery,

which helped a little, but he still suffered quite a bit. Since we

have started using SInus Rinse, he has not needed an antibiotic for

a sinus infection yet. That has been about four years now. It has

been a real blessing to us. Whenever one of us just starts to get

any kind of head cold/ congestion, we use it right away. It has

saved us so much money (in Dr visits and prescriptions) and our

bodies are healthier for it to. It is made by Neil Med. We bought

ours online, but I know that a lot of local drug stores are starting

to carry it now. I can say this about it, of all the people I have

told about it, I can't think of one who tried it and isn't still

using it. And no, I am not selling it and I get nothing from you

buying it (in case someone wants to know, I just believe it is a

really good product).

>

> Take care,

> Dawn M

>

> what worries me about essential oils is whether they might have >

contaminants that I don't want in my sinuses. I've heard of so many

> products that when tested aren't what they claim to be, even out >

of " reputable " companies.> > I've done all kinds of probiotics.

Switch them around, as bacteria > also seem to become resistant to

them. They may help a little, but > nothing sinificant for me. I

know others who are helped immensely by > them.> > penny

>

>

>

> Join the next generation of Hotmail and you could win the

adventure of a lifetime

> http://www.imagine-msn.com/minisites/sweepstakes/mail/register.aspx

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sara,

I have a neti pot and the principle is great, but believe me, the

Hydropulse is a modern version of the neti pot and is about a

thousand times easier to use. It does an even better job, as it

pulses at the rate the cillia pulse. It's actually quite comfortable

to use. I agree, there's a feeling of airiness afterwards. But when

I rinse for days at a time, I start feeling like I've got water

trapped in my head. Maybe the fact that I've had the baloon

sinuplasty, opening the holes up a little, will help, but I'm also

dealing with a long standing infection. Not an occasional flare up.

I don't even have symptoms of a sinus infection, but the organisms

are living happily in there, creating havoc throughout my body.

penny

>

> > Secondly, I have found a product that my ENT recommended to me.

My

> > whole family now uses it, including extended family. My

husband

> > used to suffer horribly from chronic sinus infections and nasal

> > allergies. He even had surgery, which helped a little, but he

> > still suffered quite a bit. Since we have started using SInus

> > Rinse, he has not needed an antibiotic for a sinus infection

yet.

> > That has been about four years now. It has been a real blessing

to

> > us. Whenever one of us just starts to get any kind of head

cold/

> > congestion, we use it right away. It has saved us so much

money

> > (in Dr visits and prescriptions) and our bodies are healthier

for

> > it to. It is made by Neil Med. We bought ours online, but I

know

> > that a lot of local drug stores are starting to carry it now.

I

> > can say this about it, of all the people I have told about it,

I

> > can't think of one who tried it and isn't still using it. And

no,

> > I am not selling it and I get nothing from you buying it (in

case

> > someone wants to know, I just believe it is a really good

product).

>

> This is a modern version of a very ancient ayurvedic sinus remedy

> called jala neti. If you Google those words, you'll find plenty

of

> sites on this. The full jala neti process is actually a lot more

> sophisticated than the modern sinus irrigation, and is worth

looking

> into if (like me) you're prone to chronic sinus problems.

>

> The technique involves using a neti pot -- a small steel or

ceramic

> teapot that has a special nozzle that fits tightly up against the

> nostril. They typically cost $15-20. It's filled with slightly-

warmer-

> than-body-temp salt water. You bend over the sink, tilt your head

to

> one side, and pour the water into the uphill nostril. It goes up

into

> the sinuses, across to the other side -- (surprise! yes, it feels

> weird...but you keep breathing through your mouth, and it passes) -

-

> and soon starts draining out the downhill nostril. When half the

pot

> is gone, you switch sides and reverse the flow. When it's done,

you

> hold one nostril shut while blowing hard into the sink a few

times,

> then do the other side. This dries the nasal passages, and gunk

that

> comes out is always amazing.

>

> This not only does an amazingly effective job of draining the

> sinuses; the warm, flowing water also sets up a little venturi

effect

> in the throat that will unclog gluey eustachian tubes if you do

this

> regularly. And the saline soothes inflamed mucous membranes, and

also

> changes the pH of the nasal environment so it's a lot less

attractive

> to the bacteria that cause the infections.

>

> I do this every day when infections are raging, down to 2-3 times

a

> week for maintenance. And like Dawn, I've pretty much given up

having

> to do antibiotics on account of my nose. A lot of ayurveda

devotees

> swear that it actually makes you think more clearly; could be. I

just

> feel lighter and more open in the middle of my head.

>

> Best part is that they've been doing this in India for several

> thousand years, so its safety is pretty well beyond doubt.

>

> Sara

>

[Guest guest]

A woman here in town that I knew used a lot of essential oils and

inhaled them developed brain cancer in a part of the brain close to

the sinus and died three years ago.

Helen

>

> Hi Penny,

>

> First, I need to tell you that I have not been completely following

this post. So, if what I say is way off base, please disregard it.

But when I noticed you mentioned putting things in your sinuses,

first I want to say that you are right to be concerned, it can be

dangerous. Your sinuses, as I am sure you know, are very close to

your brain. Secondly, I have found a product that my ENT recommended

to me. My whole family now uses it, including extended family. My

husband used to suffer horribly from chronic sinus infections and

nasal allergies. He even had surgery, which helped a little, but he

still suffered quite a bit. Since we have started using SInus Rinse,

he has not needed an antibiotic for a sinus infection yet. That has

been about four years now. It has been a real blessing to us.

Whenever one of us just starts to get any kind of head cold/

congestion, we use it right away. It has saved us so much money (in

Dr visits and prescriptions) and our bodies are healthier for it to.

It is made by Neil Med. We bought ours online, but I know that a lot

of local drug stores are starting to carry it now. I can say this

about it, of all the people I have told about it, I can't think of

one who tried it and isn't still using it. And no, I am not selling

it and I get nothing from you buying it (in case someone wants to

know, I just believe it is a really good product).

>

> Take care,

> Dawn M

>

> what worries me about essential oils is whether they might have >

contaminants that I don't want in my sinuses. I've heard of so many >

products that when tested aren't what they claim to be, even out >

of " reputable " companies.> > I've done all kinds of probiotics.

Switch them around, as bacteria > also seem to become resistant to

them. They may help a little, but > nothing sinificant for me. I know

others who are helped immensely by > them.> > penny

>

>

>

> Join the next generation of Hotmail and you could win the adventure

of a lifetime

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>

>

[Guest guest]

Hmmm, some interesting ideas here. Vodka? What about alcohol?

Evaporates quickly, less moisture.

I've got a nebulizer, but of course one of the big warnings from the

company is that you can get this stuff in your lungs so need to use

specially developed abx that can't enter the lungs. Oil in your

lungs is a scary idea...then you've got a problem that's impossible

to deal with.

I think the bread thing is extremely creative.

penny

>

>

>

> Marge at _www.naturesgift.com_

(http://www.naturesgift.com) is very

> knowledgable with high quality oils.

>

> Steam/vaporizing tea tree oil is the common way of inducing it

into the

> sinuses. Just make a pot of very hot water, add a few drops of

tea tree oil, put

> your head over the pot and cover with a towel and breathe in the

fumes

> deeply for several minutes.

>

> I made a neighbor with bad fungal sinus infections a sniffy

bottle. Just

> diluted tea tree oil 50% in vodka and had him inhale deeply into

each nostril,

> while closing the other, several times and doing that four times

a day. That

> can be enough to get the oils into the sinuses. He kept the vial

in his

> pocket and so could use it throughout the day. THis simple

technique along with

> a diet change cleared his infection of two+ years. He had been

on numerous

> antibiotics and had surgery to cure this sinus problem prior.

Nothing but tea

> tree oil since, for this past year.

>

> I don't know about whether essential oil of Oregano is effective

again

> pseudomonas, but, I am prone to sinus infections and when things

get congested,

> etc., I dilute the Oregano to 10% with olive oil, place a few

drops on a small

> piece of bread and hold the bread cube between my teeth and

breathe deeply

> many times until the bread disintegrates. I can feel the oregano

both in my

> lungs and sinuses. Doing this three times a day for a couple of

days it all it

> takes.

>

> Hope this helps

> mjh

>

[Guest guest]

" helen9jora " <helenjora@...> wrote:

>

>

> A woman here in town that I knew used a lot of essential oils and

> inhaled them developed brain cancer in a part of the brain close to

> the sinus and died three years ago.

>

Exactly why sinus & dental infections are deadly. Right next to the

brain, the thyroid, etc. Fistulas and dentin tubules are pipelines to

anywhere in the body. My doctor friend died because the infection got

to his brain and caused seizures.

penny

[Guest guest]

Not to mention, the trigeminal nerve, the largest nerve in the body

which goes directly to the brain. Imagine the damages if the

trigeminal nerve gets infected (which it does, according to the

NewCastle Researchers in Australia). It happens but people get dx'd

with TMD or TMJ.

penny

> >

> Exactly why sinus & dental infections are deadly. Right next to the

brain, the thyroid, etc. Fistulas and dentin tubules are pipelines to

> anywhere in the body. My doctor friend died because the infection

got to his brain and caused seizures.

>

> penny

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Penny,

I will tell you that I know nothing about the product you are referring to. The

thing about the Sinus Rinse is that you are using a solution that contains

saline. Saline is actually not an environment that most bugs like I think that

is part of the reason that it is so effective. That is why whenever you get a

sore throat, they tell you to gargle with salt water. It is not an old wives

tale, it really works. That is something I learned in my basic microbiology

classes. Is it possible that you could get the same effect using your product?

Probably, my only concerns would be that you make sure you have exactly the

right balance and that whatever you use is completely pure. Maybe you could

even just check into getting the Sinus Rinse packets (you mix one packet with 8

oz distilled water) and using them with your Hydropulse. The other thing that I

like about the sinus rinse solution is that it is balanced so that it is not

painful (of course it is uncomfortable, you are squirting water up your nose,

but it doesn't hurt or sting), if you made your own solution, it might be more

caustic.

As for the oil, again, I know nothing about them, but do they lose their

therapeutic properties when heated? I am just wondering if you could boil them

for 10-15 minutes to make sure that any possible bacteria were killed off first.

Of course this wouldn't address the issue of other possible

contaminants/irritants, but it might help.

Take care,

Dawn

Thanks Dawn,> > I agree. I do like the idea of something that might stick to the

> sinus walls a little better than water, and an oil might smother > pseudomonas

because it loves dampness so much. However, I'd have to > feel really confident

that the oil had been well tested before doing > something like that. For all I

know, it could gum up the cillia as > well. I'll do some research, see what I

can learn.> > The Sinus Rinse sounds like a good product. I have something

similar > called Breathe Ease, and I use it in a Hydropulse (Grossan > Irrigator

- developed by Dr. Grossan, and ENT), which I really > recommend. My only

concern about rinsing is the fact that > pseudomonas likes moisture, and I know

I have a very entrenched > infection, which I've been fighting for years. Just 2

treatments > with the iodine and I feel like I've got water in my head.

Hopefully > the iodine will be able to counter the moisture. I do have a friend

> who's gotten rid of their pseudomonas with iodine. I'll have to see > how it

goes for me.> > penny

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[Guest guest]

Hi Penny, Dan, and Sara,

Again, my email program puts my emails in reverse order, so I just now read this

one. It sounds like our products are very similar. In fact Sara's description

sounds exactly like what I do with mine. So, Penny, all the stuff I just wrote

about saline, I guess you were already doing. My thought then is that I would

continue, I think it will help. Salt will evaporate water, so I don't think you

are really creating a moist environment, aside from the benefits I already

mentioned. Dan, you asked if it was similar to your product, I would say yes.

I also think that if you have any kind of allergies, sinus congestion, runny

nose, or post nasal drip, you would benefit from daily use. In fact, if you

have post nasal drip, this could be a contributing factor to your weight issues

(as the drainage runs down the back of your throat into your stomach, it often

makes people feel nauseated and not want to eat).

Take care,

Dawn

Secondly, I have found a product that my ENT recommended to me. My > > whole

family now uses it, including extended family. My husband > > used to suffer

horribly from chronic sinus infections and nasal > > allergies. He even had

surgery, which helped a little, but he > > still suffered quite a bit. Since

we have started using SInus > > Rinse, he has not needed an antibiotic for a

sinus infection yet. > > That has been about four years now. It has been a

real blessing to > > us. Whenever one of us just starts to get any kind of

head cold/ > > congestion, we use it right away. It has saved us so much money

> > (in Dr visits and prescriptions) and our bodies are healthier for > > it

to. It is made by Neil Med. We bought ours online, but I know > > that a lot

of local drug stores are starting to carry it now. I > > can say this about

it, of all the people I have told about it, I > > can't think of one who tried

it and isn't still using it. And no, > > I am not selling it and I get nothing

from you buying it (in case > > someone wants to know, I just believe it is a

really good product).> > This is a modern version of a very ancient ayurvedic

sinus remedy > called jala neti. If you Google those words, you'll find plenty

of > sites on this. The full jala neti process is actually a lot more >

sophisticated than the modern sinus irrigation, and is worth looking > into if

(like me) you're prone to chronic sinus problems.> > The technique involves

using a neti pot -- a small steel or ceramic > teapot that has a special nozzle

that fits tightly up against the > nostril. They typically cost $15-20. It's

filled with slightly-warmer- > than-body-temp salt water. You bend over the

sink, tilt your head to > one side, and pour the water into the uphill nostril.

It goes up into > the sinuses, across to the other side -- (surprise! yes, it

feels > weird...but you keep breathing through your mouth, and it passes) -- >

and soon starts draining out the downhill nostril. When half the pot > is gone,

you switch sides and reverse the flow. When it's done, you > hold one nostril

shut while blowing hard into the sink a few times, > then do the other side.

This dries the nasal passages, and gunk that > comes out is always amazing.> >

This not only does an amazingly effective job of draining the > sinuses; the

warm, flowing water also sets up a little venturi effect > in the throat that

will unclog gluey eustachian tubes if you do this > regularly. And the saline

soothes inflamed mucous membranes, and also > changes the pH of the nasal

environment so it's a lot less attractive > to the bacteria that cause the

infections.> > I do this every day when infections are raging, down to 2-3 times

a > week for maintenance. And like Dawn, I've pretty much given up having > to

do antibiotics on account of my nose. A lot of ayurveda devotees > swear that

it actually makes you think more clearly; could be. I just > feel lighter and

more open in the middle of my head.> > Best part is that they've been doing this

in India for several > thousand years, so its safety is pretty well beyond

doubt.> > Sara

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[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

I've done saline rinses in the past. Still have entrenched

infections. I'm hoping adding the iodine (and also the opening of

the air passages with baloon sinuplasty) will finally get it.

My last rinse I increased the saline to almost the burning point,

but I could still tolerate and yes, my sinuses feel more dry. Bugs

do not develop resistance to betadine (iodine) so I'm going to stick

with it for a while.

However, I'm afraid the infection in my jaw won't care, because the

salt and betadine can't really reach it. That's the problem. But

getting rid of the organisms and their biofilms in the sinuses is

going to be a step forward, if it can be done.

penny

>

> Hi Penny, Dan, and Sara,

>

> Again, my email program puts my emails in reverse order, so I just

now read this one. It sounds like our products are very similar.

In fact Sara's description sounds exactly like what I do with mine.

So, Penny, all the stuff I just wrote about saline, I guess you were

already doing. My thought then is that I would continue, I think it

will help. Salt will evaporate water, so I don't think you are

really creating a moist environment, aside from the benefits I

already mentioned. Dan, you asked if it was similar to your

product, I would say yes. I also think that if you have any kind of

allergies, sinus congestion, runny nose, or post nasal drip, you

would benefit from daily use. In fact, if you have post nasal drip,

this could be a contributing factor to your weight issues (as the

drainage runs down the back of your throat into your stomach, it

often makes people feel nauseated and not want to eat).

>

> Take care,

> Dawn

>

[Guest guest]

Penny,

> I don't even have symptoms of a sinus infection, but the organisms

> are living happily in there, creating havoc throughout my body.

I've been trying to follow this thread and I think you mentioned

earlier that you got a CT scan. What you made you think to go to an

ENT?

Tony

[Guest guest]

Ah, I was trying to locate a source of infection, once I realized that

was the cause of my symptoms (discovered due to feeling much better on

cipro). I first thought perhaps I had an infected tooth, which

actually turned out to be an infected jaw. had surgery on that and got

WAY sicker (due to lack of decent antibiotic coverage). Then went to

another oral surgeron, who supposedly understood the infection better,

and he ordered a CT scan. He took one look at my sinuses and said, no

way will I operate on your jaw until you get those sinuses cleaned up

(teeth roots are in sinuses). So that's how I ended up finding out I

had " seriously diseased (infected) sinuses " , even though I don't have

sinus symptoms. I breathe just fine.

Lots of places for bacterial infections to hide that we're never even

aware of. I stumbled onto all of this, pretty much by accident.

penny

>

> Penny,

>

> > I don't even have symptoms of a sinus infection, but the organisms

> > are living happily in there, creating havoc throughout my body.

>

> I've been trying to follow this thread and I think you mentioned

> earlier that you got a CT scan. What you made you think to go to an

> ENT?

>

> Tony

>

[Guest guest]

THis worries me but I guess worrying won't help.

The dentist created a jaw infection in me where I had none before, per

badly handled tooth extraction that fractured the socket all the way

up, then she didn't clean it out, then she stitched it up. It's been

six or more months since then. I know its infected as its still very

sore and I can't even use the electric tootbrush on the molar behind

it and sometimes I can feel it down my leg (in the beginning, the pain

was so bad, my entire arm and leg hurt).

I wanted to get it properly taken care of sometime this year and I'm

well aware that an idiot claiming to know what he's doing could make

it worse.

I also need to try and get my act together to report the dentist

and/or sue her though likely it won't get me very far unless I can

demonstrate by biopsy continued infection.

> >

> > Penny,

> >

> > > I don't even have symptoms of a sinus infection, but the organisms

> > > are living happily in there, creating havoc throughout my body.

> >

> > I've been trying to follow this thread and I think you mentioned

> > earlier that you got a CT scan. What you made you think to go to an

> > ENT?

> >

> > Tony

> >

>