Re: Perimenopause/testosterone/Schaller, MD

[Guest guest]

Thank you Dr. Shaller. You have given me hope to ask again with my new doctor.

I am so tired of having difficulties in so many areas. I already have voice

problems (I could sing for two months this spring after a sinus infection was

alleviated by three rounds of antibiotics, but my mid-range singing voice has

disappeared again) and didn't want any lower voice or any more facial hair that

was threatened to me.

Re: Perimenopause

> Janet: Thank you for responding. My former (yes, former) PA refused to

> give me testosterone as she said it would give me a lower voice and more

> facial hair and something else (I forget) that wasn't reversable. She was

> mean and nasty that day I saw her and I won't go back again~that was one

> of the worst doctor visits I've ever had (like the horror stories we all

> read about). I have a new doctor who will be evaluating me next month for

> an annual~we'll discuss this problem then. She seems to be open to new

> ideas and trying out things. I wonder how much is thyroid...tests are

> always fluctuating between low " normal " and high " normal. "

>

> in La Selva Beach CA

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I have tried HRT twice - in two forms - more to try to treat the ME.

All my hormones are still in normal pre-menopuasal levels but I have

recently done a home FSH test which shows a possibility of

perimenopause.

I have mega temperature/sweat problems and believe they are really

neurological but possible worsened to some degree by my waning hormones

(I am 45). They have been exceptionally bad since 2004 but I have had

night sweats since 1996, and very weird temperature control since 1970

(when I first became ill).

Anyway, neither application worked - made me far worse and the

testosterone was a complete nightmare. It was all so bad I have no

intention of ever attempting this course of action again even when fully

menopausal. I too have tried natural progesterone (as per the late Dr

Lee) but it also worsened my symptoms.

Rosie

Excess weight occasionally makes estrone which can become testosterone.

But

many women and men drop their free testosterone levels 40-60% from

20-45-50.

Since testosterone grows bone, opens capillaries, opens coronary

arteries,

increases perfusion of distal limbs, etc, etc..... It is really

pathetic

that a FREE testosterone level is not part of all yearly evaluations.

Women getting replacement usually do fine with 1/2 mg to 2 mgs and I

have

never seen any facial hair or other medical myths. Men replace with

10-200

mg and the blood level determines the dose since no one can guess the

livers

role.

If acne, stop 2 weeks and restart at a lower dose--too much

testosterone-->

to DHT.

If using a cream, apply to outer dry labia or fatless inner arms or the

back

of hands in men to avoid conversion by aromatase into estrogen.

We have many articles on these issues. It is good to know some health

care

workers are keeping up with 1940's medicine and considering

bio-identical

testosterone.

Sincerely,

Schaller, MD

www.personalconsult.com

www.suboxonemd.com

Re: Perimenopause

>

>

> Hi Lesie,

>

> If you can find a doctor to test for testostersone levels it might

> help. I also lost my libido and one of my docs did test for that. I

WAS

> LOW! I supplement now with ine squirt (1 gram) on my forearms and

thighs.

> What a difference! Yea baby!

>

> Janet

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wanted to add in here that I too cannot tolerate excess hormones of

any kind, even in essential oils or plants. I think some of the

fungi/bacteria we are colonized with deconjugate our estrogen, and

maybe other hormones, giving us higher levels. Perhaps some even make

their own versions of hormones. Then if your liver is overburdened by

various toxins and infections and hormones, it can't handle excess.

The first thing to do is a liver cleanse and try to address your

infections, and then maybe you could tolerate the hormones.

I remember a so-called naturopath friend of mine, who knew this,

putting me on bupleurem and it was a nightmare for me. I got the PMS

from hell and was in a lot of pain. It was the hormones/precursor

hormones in the tincture. I personally avoid any sources of hormones

and I know I have to start doing liver flushes too.

We're all individual but I " m sure if I tried any kind of hormone cream

I'd have a terrible experience too.

>

>

> Hi all,

>

> I have tried HRT twice - in two forms - more to try to treat the ME.

> All my hormones are still in normal pre-menopuasal levels but I have

> recently done a home FSH test which shows a possibility of

> perimenopause.

>

> I have mega temperature/sweat problems and believe they are really

> neurological but possible worsened to some degree by my waning hormones

> (I am 45). They have been exceptionally bad since 2004 but I have had

> night sweats since 1996, and very weird temperature control since 1970

> (when I first became ill).

> Anyway, neither application worked - made me far worse and the

> testosterone was a complete nightmare. It was all so bad I have no

> intention of ever attempting this course of action again even when fully

> menopausal. I too have tried natural progesterone (as per the late Dr

> Lee) but it also worsened my symptoms.

>

> Rosie

>

>

>

>

> Excess weight occasionally makes estrone which can become testosterone.

> But

> many women and men drop their free testosterone levels 40-60% from

> 20-45-50.

>

> Since testosterone grows bone, opens capillaries, opens coronary

> arteries,

> increases perfusion of distal limbs, etc, etc..... It is really

> pathetic

> that a FREE testosterone level is not part of all yearly evaluations.

>

> Women getting replacement usually do fine with 1/2 mg to 2 mgs and I

> have

> never seen any facial hair or other medical myths. Men replace with

> 10-200

> mg and the blood level determines the dose since no one can guess the

> livers

> role.

>

> If acne, stop 2 weeks and restart at a lower dose--too much

> testosterone-->

> to DHT.

>

> If using a cream, apply to outer dry labia or fatless inner arms or the

> back

> of hands in men to avoid conversion by aromatase into estrogen.

>

> We have many articles on these issues. It is good to know some health

> care

> workers are keeping up with 1940's medicine and considering

> bio-identical

> testosterone.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Schaller, MD

> www.personalconsult.com

> www.suboxonemd.com

>

>

>

> Re: Perimenopause

> >

> >

> > Hi Lesie,

> >

> > If you can find a doctor to test for testostersone levels it might

> > help. I also lost my libido and one of my docs did test for that. I

> WAS

> > LOW! I supplement now with ine squirt (1 gram) on my forearms and

> thighs.

> > What a difference! Yea baby!

> >

> > Janet

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

On May 5, 2006, at 9:24 PM, jschaller wrote:

> Women getting replacement usually do fine with 1/2 mg to 2 mgs and

> I have

> never seen any facial hair or other medical myths. Men replace with

> 10-200

> mg and the blood level determines the dose since no one can guess

> the livers

> role.

I tried 1/3 mg and found it too much. Took it down to a dose the size

of a pinhead -- still too much. And yes, I did grow strays on my

upper lip and chin. (I'm a fair -skinned Anglo-Saxon type, and have

never been given to facial hair before, so this was a shocker.) It

also lowered my voice and made me put on weight. Yuck and more yuck.

Turns out I may have a SNP that affects production of the enzyme that

metabolizes testosterone (along with many other useful drugs, like

cortisone and epinepherine). I couldn't handle even very smallest

amounts.

> If using a cream, apply to outer dry labia or fatless inner arms or

> the back

> of hands in men to avoid conversion by aromatase into estrogen.

My husband uses 30 mg/day, with wonderful results. He puts it just

above his knees. I'm curious about this estrogen conversion thing --

can you explain a bit more?

Thanks,

Sara

[Guest guest]

Jill,

I don't tolerate estrogen, but once the dr gave me oral progesterone and the

about the best I felt since cfs. That was 20 yrs ago, I'm menopausal now, the

creams did nothing for me going through meno, so did it 'au natural' and did ok.

My liver enzymes are way too high, and right now I'm taking a Bupleurum liver

cleanse combo and its reallyhelping me, but I'm rather enjoying not having

hormones to screw up my life anymore!!! No more cramps, bleeding like a stuck

pig, ovulation probs/cysts, etc. I love menopause.

Marcia

Re: Perimenopause/testosterone/Schaller, MD

I wanted to add in here that I too cannot tolerate excess hormones of

any kind, even in essential oils or plants. I think some of the

fungi/bacteria we are colonized with deconjugate our estrogen, and

maybe other hormones, giving us higher levels. Perhaps some even make

their own versions of hormones. Then if your liver is overburdened by

various toxins and infections and hormones, it can't handle excess.

The first thing to do is a liver cleanse and try to address your

infections, and then maybe you could tolerate the hormones.

I remember a so-called naturopath friend of mine, who knew this,

putting me on bupleurem and it was a nightmare for me. I got the PMS

from hell and was in a lot of pain. It was the hormones/precursor

hormones in the tincture. I personally avoid any sources of hormones

and I know I have to start doing liver flushes too.

We're all individual but I " m sure if I tried any kind of hormone cream

I'd have a terrible experience too.

[Guest guest]

LOL about loving menopause.

The thing is, PMS is in my opinion due to a few things:

1) We're not doing what nature expected and made us for. That is, to

get pregnant early in life, and then breastfeed for about two years.

In the wild this would be necessary because we'd have a bunch of kids

and there wouldn't be enough food in winters etc. That means 9 months

of pregnancy and 2 years of breastfeeding, which usually serves as a

semi contraceptive. During that time you are not getting monthly

surges of estrogen and becoming estrogen-dominant. I believe the fact

that we delay childbearing often until our 30's and sometimes even

40's is a cause for PMS. Nature would have us start having kids in our

teens.

2) The fake estrogens in the environment. Antibiotics, for one, change

the bacteria and the profile of hormones. It's known that taking

antibiotics while on the birth control pill can screw up the pill and

lead to pregnancy. Then fake eestrogens in plastics etc, which are

lowering sperm counts, fertility etc.

So. We wouldn't have PMS if we had a bunch ofkids and breastfed them

for years at a time. Plus the kids would be much healthier. There is

evidence that 6 months of breastfeeding is really the minimum needed,

and that lifelong overall health increases steadily if you keep

breastfeeding the child for up to 2 years.

>

> Jill,

>

> I don't tolerate estrogen, but once the dr gave me oral progesterone

and the about the best I felt since cfs. That was 20 yrs ago, I'm

menopausal now, the creams did nothing for me going through meno, so

did it 'au natural' and did ok. My liver enzymes are way too high,

and right now I'm taking a Bupleurum liver cleanse combo and its

reallyhelping me, but I'm rather enjoying not having hormones to screw

up my life anymore!!! No more cramps, bleeding like a stuck pig,

ovulation probs/cysts, etc. I love menopause.

>

> Marcia

> Re:

Perimenopause/testosterone/Schaller, MD

>

>

> I wanted to add in here that I too cannot tolerate excess hormones of

> any kind, even in essential oils or plants. I think some of the

> fungi/bacteria we are colonized with deconjugate our estrogen, and

> maybe other hormones, giving us higher levels. Perhaps some even make

> their own versions of hormones. Then if your liver is overburdened by

> various toxins and infections and hormones, it can't handle excess.

> The first thing to do is a liver cleanse and try to address your

> infections, and then maybe you could tolerate the hormones.

>

> I remember a so-called naturopath friend of mine, who knew this,

> putting me on bupleurem and it was a nightmare for me. I got the PMS

> from hell and was in a lot of pain. It was the hormones/precursor

> hormones in the tincture. I personally avoid any sources of hormones

> and I know I have to start doing liver flushes too.

>

> We're all individual but I " m sure if I tried any kind of hormone cream

> I'd have a terrible experience too.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

So, you are one of the few people out there who wouldn't give me strange looks

when I told you that I was still breastfeeding my 18 month old son? It is nice

to finally find someone who sees it my way! Thanks for the encouragement.

-Dawn

So. We wouldn't have PMS if we had a bunch ofkids and breastfed them> for years

at a time. Plus the kids would be much healthier. There is> evidence that 6

months of breastfeeding is really the minimum needed,> and that lifelong overall

health increases steadily if you keep> breastfeeding the child for up to 2

years.

Join the next generation of Hotmail and you could win the adventure of a

lifetime

http://www.imagine-msn.com/minisites/sweepstakes/mail/register.aspx

[Guest guest]

Hi Dr Schaller,

Please forgive my idiocy, but I'm stuck on trying to understand some

basic principles.

Can you better explain: " Excess weight occasionally makes estrone

which can become testosterone, " please?

It sounds so " iffy. " ( " Well, it's Saturday night here in Fat Cell

City and I think I'll make me some estrone.... " ) So " conditional, " I

guess, and I'm wondering what the conditions are.

" Excess weight " means fat cells? What is the system or process

that's going on here and what are the conditions that control it or

set it in motion? I'm having trouble with theoretical language

applied to actual physical goings-on, I guess, and would appreciate

some clarification.

Thanks ahead of time again.

in Champaign IL

>

> Excess weight occasionally makes estrone which can become

testosterone. But

> many women and men drop their free testosterone levels 40-60% from

20-45-50.

>

> Since testosterone grows bone, opens capillaries, opens coronary

arteries,

> increases perfusion of distal limbs, etc, etc..... It is really

pathetic

> that a FREE testosterone level is not part of all yearly

evaluations.

>

> Women getting replacement usually do fine with 1/2 mg to 2 mgs and

I have

> never seen any facial hair or other medical myths. Men replace with

10-200

> mg and the blood level determines the dose since no one can guess

the livers

> role.

>

> If acne, stop 2 weeks and restart at a lower dose--too much

testosterone-->

> to DHT.

>

> If using a cream, apply to outer dry labia or fatless inner arms or

the back

> of hands in men to avoid conversion by aromatase into estrogen.

>

> We have many articles on these issues. It is good to know some

health care

> workers are keeping up with 1940's medicine and considering bio-

identical

> testosterone.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Schaller, MD

> www.personalconsult.com

> www.suboxonemd.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

So. We wouldn't have PMS if we had a bunch ofkids and breastfed them

for years at a time. Plus the kids would be much healthier. There is

evidence that 6 months of breastfeeding is really the minimum needed,

and that lifelong overall health increases steadily if you keep

breastfeeding the child for up to 2 years.

I'd rather have PMS :-/

Marcia (who never had any kids)

[Guest guest]

Macia, for what it's worth, I think the stats are based on survival-

of-the-species stuffs, not the central health or sense of well-being

of any one member of the species.

And besides...thinking about the 9 months of breastfeeding and winter

months of starvation biz...plus from having watched a mom dog nurse

nine puppies, I think there's some kind of bad logic going on here.

Just haven't figured it out yet. I think it might have something to

do with feeding forty zillion tons of grain to cows to get a couple

of T-bones, though.

Champaign IL

>

>

>

> So. We wouldn't have PMS if we had a bunch ofkids and breastfed

them

> for years at a time. Plus the kids would be much healthier. There

is

> evidence that 6 months of breastfeeding is really the minimum

needed,

> and that lifelong overall health increases steadily if you keep

> breastfeeding the child for up to 2 years.

>

>

> I'd rather have PMS :-/

>

> Marcia (who never had any kids)

>

[Guest guest]

Pups are different. Because of our big brains, and the fact that

nature has allowed our hips to be as wide as possible without totally

impairing our ability to walk, run, etc, we are essentially born

premature compared to other species. Its the cost of a big brain; we

have to care for our young far longer than many other species do.

Also, dogs will keep having litters...and they don't live nearly as

long as we do. I guess I wonder if our domesticating them and spaying

them, and feeding them crappy dog food, makes them sick, tho.

> >

> >

> >

> > So. We wouldn't have PMS if we had a bunch ofkids and breastfed

> them

> > for years at a time. Plus the kids would be much healthier. There

> is

> > evidence that 6 months of breastfeeding is really the minimum

> needed,

> > and that lifelong overall health increases steadily if you keep

> > breastfeeding the child for up to 2 years.

> >

> >

> > I'd rather have PMS :-/

> >

> > Marcia (who never had any kids)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure if I explained this well enough, as I re-read my post. We

have very big brains, that have allowed us to be a very successful

species (I guess, if you don't take into account morality or ethics!).

Anyway, nature has allowed a woman's hips to get as wide as possible

without being a total detriment to accomodate the big brain and even

so we have to come out relatively early, 'prematurely', and our skulls

are somewhat soft so we can get through the birth canal, but even so,

even at that point with that adaptation, it's obviously a tight fit!

So we are essentially born premature, needing much more tending for

a longer time than other species.

So imo breastfeeding should go on for a long time, as that's the way

nature intended it. Now, I personally couldn't seem to get pregnant

when I wanted to. Knowing all that I've learned in the last few years,

I'd say it was due to undiagnosed celiac disease which probably also

my mother and grandmother suffered from, and definitely my aunt did;

along with hormonal imbalances that ran on that side of the family and

maybe some methylation issues; all of which threw everything off, most

likely. So, like Marcia, I never got the chance...thus I definitely

suffer PMS. I hate PMS! I do find magnesium IV does help it. Knowing

that magnesium and progesterone are on one side of the equation and

estrogen and calcium the other; I think that magnesium offsets some of

the effects of estrogen dominance.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > So. We wouldn't have PMS if we had a bunch ofkids and breastfed

> > them

> > > for years at a time. Plus the kids would be much healthier. There

> > is

> > > evidence that 6 months of breastfeeding is really the minimum

> > needed,

> > > and that lifelong overall health increases steadily if you keep

> > > breastfeeding the child for up to 2 years.

> > >

> > >

> > > I'd rather have PMS :-/

> > >

> > > Marcia (who never had any kids)

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm confused, Jill. Do you mean big hips for humans in general (not

women specifically)? For in general, there's no way that walking and

running, etc, would be accommodated by anything other than bigger

hips? Bigger hips than what? Is there an animal I can compare with,

in my thinking? Is there an actual ratio I can think about? I'm

really asking -- I don't know this. It seems to be an obvious

connection, but who's to say what is obvious is right all the time?

I'm not sure why a large brain gets correlated with a shorter

gestation. Couldn't they be independent of each other? If you're

saying that gestation was shortened to accommodate the larger brain,

couldn't it also be the case that alteration or change in size of

internal organ structure could have accomplished the same thing but

kept the fetus inside the mother's body for longer?

And who's to say that dogs die earlier than we do? I mean, maybe

their time frame just isn't the same. Isn't this " the earth is the

center of the universe " argument? Maybe dogs are sitting around

wondering why their people are " so damn old, sheesh! " because their

universe has a different center.

And I thought that modern veterinary science tells us that spaying and

neutering improves their chances for not getting cancer. If that is

even reliable, it seems to fly in the face of this other

stuff...breastfeeding, pup feeding, longevity.

It's probably all " me, " though. I'm having one of those days when my

fingers can't keep up with my thinking, and my personal internal spell-

check is not working right either (the one inside my head).

>

> Pups are different. Because of our big brains, and the fact that

> nature has allowed our hips to be as wide as possible without totally

> impairing our ability to walk, run, etc, we are essentially born

> premature compared to other species. Its the cost of a big brain; we

> have to care for our young far longer than many other species do.

> Also, dogs will keep having litters...and they don't live nearly as

> long as we do. I guess I wonder if our domesticating them and spaying

> them, and feeding them crappy dog food, makes them sick, tho.

[Guest guest]

I had my children in the late seventies when breast feeding was the way to

go(back in vogue).

My fist child I breast fed for over 2 years.I stopped because fell pregnant.

I breast fed my second child for 18 months.

I fed on demand.

During this time I didn't always eat as well as I could have.I stupidly

attempted a vegetarian diet,no meat of any kind,no fish or eggs.I was very

thin.

Today as adults neither of my kids have good health.

My daughter is struggling with CFS and my son has a very poor immune

system,catches every cold and flu around.

So much for breast fed is best fed.

It appears to me that perhaps genetics and the environement will have more

to do with a child's future health than breast feeding.Assuming that their

diet is sound.

I think it's very important for a breast feeding mother to eat well and be

in good health herself.

Having said this I would still choose to breast feed.Probably for the first

year.

I feel both of my kids most likley did benefit as babies and young children.

I'm not sure if a mother is doing herself or the child any favours feeding

for a long period.

If a mother is unwell I can only see it as an extra drain on her recources.

The bonding is a wonderful and special aspect of breast feeding.It's

possible this helps the child with future emotional security.

Both my children have always been very independent.

Just my two cents worth.

Cheers

So. We wouldn't have PMS if we had a bunch ofkids and breastfed them

for years at a time. Plus the kids would be much healthier. There is

evidence that 6 months of breastfeeding is really the minimum needed,

and that lifelong overall health increases steadily if you keep

breastfeeding the child for up to 2 years.

I'd rather have PMS :-/

Marcia (who never had any kids)

[Guest guest]

Hi ...

Big hips for female humans...trying to accomodate the big brain. Even

so, we're born " premature " , immature, whatever, compared to other mammals.

Here is a nice website:

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:cw18sseCw_gJ:www.leeds.ac.uk/chb/lectures/an\

thl_06.html+humans+big+brain+childbirth+premature & hl=en & gl=us & ct=clnk & cd=5

Funny comment about the dogs!

> >

> > Pups are different. Because of our big brains, and the fact that

> > nature has allowed our hips to be as wide as possible without totally

> > impairing our ability to walk, run, etc, we are essentially born

> > premature compared to other species. Its the cost of a big brain; we

> > have to care for our young far longer than many other species do.

> > Also, dogs will keep having litters...and they don't live nearly as

> > long as we do. I guess I wonder if our domesticating them and spaying

> > them, and feeding them crappy dog food, makes them sick, tho.

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder if the comment about dogs is really " funny. " No, I'm not

trying to be smart-assed or contrary. I just think that, in

particular with illnesses like this CFS/FM/ME stuff, there's a lot of

out-of-the-box kind of thinking that is forced upon us (or chosen?),

and from that, we can explore other avenues of analyzing and thinking

about things.

Maybe CFS/FM/ME is not just an inconvenient and tortuous set of

physical events to constitute only personal misery. Think about

it...what kind of person are you (generic you)?...if you think about

your former self, before you got ill, doesn't it make sense that it

would take one helluva big hammer to knock the slats out from under

you and some (potentiality for other) sense into you?

Maybe it's a real forced-upon-us challenge to alter our thinking about

what constitutes living and what constitutes consciousness. Maybe

there are other alternatives to fixing the body and trying to live

within its confines. Is it only that I " miss " what I'm familiar with

and that's why I try to punch myself into shape so I can return

there? Maybe there are other answers than those gleaned by

comparisons of " what is " with previous concepts of feeling well and

health and wellness and...all of it.

Thanks for the link, Jill.

>

> Hi ...

> Big hips for female humans...trying to accomodate the big brain. Even

> so, we're born " premature " , immature, whatever, compared to other

mammals.

>

> Here is a nice website:

>

> http://72.14.207.104/search?

q=cache:cw18sseCw_gJ:www.leeds.ac.uk/chb/lectures/anthl_06.html+humans+

big+brain+childbirth+premature & hl=en & gl=us & ct=clnk & cd=5

>

> Funny comment about the dogs!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, you are speaking to my mystical side now.

Go here:

www.cosm.org

And click on " About cosm "

And then, play the interview with Grey. He is someone I

interviewed once and I spent a few hours at his studio in Brooklyn. I

have his book, " Sacred Mirrors " published in 1990.

THe painting he calls Gaia came from a vision he had in 1989 when his

daughter was born. I won't say more...just listen to the video.

I was paging through the book this evening to look more closely at the

painting. I wonder if I can see lyme bugs in the roots of the trees!

There are organisms anyway. And it reminds me of a vision I had about

a tree when my friend did a drumming journey for/with me.

Anyway, there is another tryptich, where at first the body is within

the DNA double helix, agonized by its limitations.

Then in the second painting it entirely shatters.

Then it is reborn as " enlightened " with a crystal cadeucus.

He calls this the wounded healer.

But no, I don't think we needed to be slammed this way in order to

" get it. " I really don't want to legitimize suffering that way. A

college classmate of mine died last December of AIDS...she got it from

her hemophiliac boyfriend when in her 20's...she became a great poet.

She wrote unrelentingly of HIV and AIDS and the suffering of the body.

She won awards and deserved them. I went to a memorial reading for her

on Monday. As several of the poets there said, She would have been a

great poet anyway.

> >

> > Hi ...

> > Big hips for female humans...trying to accomodate the big brain. Even

> > so, we're born " premature " , immature, whatever, compared to other

> mammals.

> >

> > Here is a nice website:

> >

> > http://72.14.207.104/search?

> q=cache:cw18sseCw_gJ:www.leeds.ac.uk/chb/lectures/anthl_06.html+humans+

> big+brain+childbirth+premature & hl=en & gl=us & ct=clnk & cd=5

> >

> > Funny comment about the dogs!

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Not trying to legitimize anything. Just trying to turn the ball over

and around and see what's there. Is it a ball or is it a

polyhedron....

I heard a radio show with Dean Radin the other day and was taken by

some of the discussion. The idea of " entangled minds " was especially

interesting, though presumably off-track for what we're talking about

here...although maybe not.

http://www.deanradin.com/NewWeb/deanradin.html

http://www.noetic.org/index.cfm

I'll take a look at the link, Jill. Thanks.

>

> Well, you are speaking to my mystical side now.

> Go here:

>

> www.cosm.org

>

> And click on " About cosm "

>

> And then, play the interview with Grey. He is someone I

> interviewed once and I spent a few hours at his studio in Brooklyn.

I

> have his book, " Sacred Mirrors " published in 1990.

>

> THe painting he calls Gaia came from a vision he had in 1989 when

his

> daughter was born. I won't say more...just listen to the video.

>

> I was paging through the book this evening to look more closely at

the

> painting. I wonder if I can see lyme bugs in the roots of the trees!

> There are organisms anyway. And it reminds me of a vision I had

about

> a tree when my friend did a drumming journey for/with me.

>

> Anyway, there is another tryptich, where at first the body is within

> the DNA double helix, agonized by its limitations.

> Then in the second painting it entirely shatters.

> Then it is reborn as " enlightened " with a crystal cadeucus.

>

> He calls this the wounded healer.

>

> But no, I don't think we needed to be slammed this way in order to

> " get it. " I really don't want to legitimize suffering that way. A

> college classmate of mine died last December of AIDS...she got it

from

> her hemophiliac boyfriend when in her 20's...she became a great

poet.

> She wrote unrelentingly of HIV and AIDS and the suffering of the

body.

> She won awards and deserved them. I went to a memorial reading for

her

> on Monday. As several of the poets there said, She would have been a

> great poet anyway.

>

[Guest guest]

Funny, I've never had PMS. I have two kids and breastfed them for a few

weeks but it was horrible. Despite being petite - in many ways ;-) - I

had way too much milk. Of course everyone said collect it and use it in

bottles - as if. Couldn't collect it for love nor money. It streamed

down my abdomen entirely missing those nasty plastic shells that are

supposed to collect the stuff. I was constantly soaking - yuk! My

letdown reflex was so powerful that if I lay back in a warm bath then

the force of the milk would hit the taps at the other end!!! (really

yuk). I gave up..it was horrible. I do wonder though, whether the

abnormal prolactin results that many researchers into ME have found had

something to do with this rather 'over-milked' situation.

Rosie

So. We wouldn't have PMS if we had a bunch ofkids and breastfed them

for years at a time. Plus the kids would be much healthier. There is

evidence that 6 months of breastfeeding is really the minimum needed,

and that lifelong overall health increases steadily if you keep

breastfeeding the child for up to 2 years.

I'd rather have PMS :-/

Marcia (who never had any kids)

[Guest guest]

--Hi,

ive never had any children, but i have increased serum prolactin

levels, so at least in my case

it has nothing to do with an " over-milked state "

zuzu

- In , " Rosie " <rosiecox@...>

wrote:

>

>

> Funny, I've never had PMS. I have two kids and breastfed them for

a few

> weeks but it was horrible. Despite being petite - in many ways ;-

) - I

> had way too much milk. Of course everyone said collect it and use

it in

> bottles - as if. Couldn't collect it for love nor money. It

streamed

> down my abdomen entirely missing those nasty plastic shells that are

> supposed to collect the stuff. I was constantly soaking - yuk! My

> letdown reflex was so powerful that if I lay back in a warm bath

then

> the force of the milk would hit the taps at the other end!!! (really

> yuk). I gave up..it was horrible. I do wonder though, whether the

> abnormal prolactin results that many researchers into ME have found

had

> something to do with this rather 'over-milked' situation.

>

> Rosie

>

>

> So. We wouldn't have PMS if we had a bunch ofkids and breastfed

them

> for years at a time. Plus the kids would be much healthier. There

is

> evidence that 6 months of breastfeeding is really the minimum

needed,

> and that lifelong overall health increases steadily if you keep

> breastfeeding the child for up to 2 years.

>

>

> I'd rather have PMS :-/

>

> Marcia (who never had any kids)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Zuzu. Dumb question from me, again, I'm afraid. Does this

prolactin have anything to do with " inflammation " ?

>

> --Hi,

> ive never had any children, but i have increased serum

prolactin

> levels, so at least in my case

> it has nothing to do with an " over-milked state "

>

> zuzu

>

>