Demon Klonopin/ Suicide Rates/False Guilt

[Guest guest]

Believe me, I've talked to him about it this last year. He told me

about 1%

of his patients got creamed by it. I'm in that 1%. Having spent

three years

in benzo forums composed of 100% people creamed by it, it's hard to

know

what is what percentage-wise, but hardly any of those other people

in the

benzo forums had CFIDS as well.

But here's a possible clue. Cheney noted that I don't fall over on

the

Romberg test, unlike the great percentage of his patients. He

figures my

mental equilibrium is intact and speculates that taking klonopin

throws it

off. Also I can count backwards from any given number by 7s all day

long,

unlike the patients in Osler's Web. But my body is wiped out, I can

hardly

walk a quarter mile.

Plus there is a genetic factor, my parents took benzos and got severe

depression, valium and xanax in their case, I took klonopin not

knowing it

was related, and got severe depression. Someone studying medicine

posted

some information on the benzo forum recently stating that benzos

knock down

the dopamine system, and I figure I must really need my dopamine

system left

the hell alone.

There is this subtle distinction between addiction and dependence

that drug

companies exploit and basically lie about. Benzos are not addictive

in the

sense that most users crave or abuse them although a few do, but

they are

very much a substance that many become physically dependent on and

have a

bitch of a time coming off them. Seems to depend on genetics, and the

doctors I worked with thought it was about 50% of the population who

would

have trouble coming off.

Hard to tell for sure, I doubt any real studies have been done on it,

because the drug companies don't want to admit there is a problem

with this

class of drugs. Generally people who have trouble are told by their

doctors

they are mentally ill or that it's their fault in some way. I

experienced

that with a doctor I asked for help, not Cheney, who is a very kind

person.

By the way, Cheney thought the water titration method of coming off

benzos

that I have been transmitting was the way to come off these drugs.

It has

finally taken hold on the benzo forum and files have been created

there,

including a power point slideshow of how to do it, if anyone is

interested,

join benzo at .

Helen

**********I was on K for about 6 months or so and was fine on a real

low dose at first but I did have a problem within weeks in as much

as dependency. I was very anxious at the time and it did seem to be

the answer initially. The romberg test was negative for me also and

I slowly weened off the K also by disolving the part pills in water

just cutting back over a couple of months with no really bad

reactions...as I recall now anyway...Dianne

[Guest guest]

I was only ever on .5 klonopin and it messed me up severely, and I am not

the only one this happened to. However, it all depends on the individual. .5

klonopin is considered equivalent to 10 mgs of valium, which is available in

2 mg doses, so it's not the lowest benzo dose around, but pretty low.

>From: " yakcamp22 " <yakcamp22@...>

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>Subject: Re: Demon Klonopin/ Suicide Rates/False Guilt

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>

>Make that 3, me too. I would also like to ask Dr. S. if he thinks

>that if one averages .5 mg. of K per day, if that is really enough

>to be worried about? Thanks,

>

>Mike C

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Klonopin is helping me a lot. Now I go straight to sleep, don't wake

> > during the night, and wake up feeling more refreshed than when I went

> > to sleep.

> >

> > So that's 2 people.

> >

> > Kat.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Apparently he rarely sees the negatives.

>From: " kdrbrill " <kdrbrill@...>

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>Subject: Re: Demon Klonopin/ Suicide Rates/False Guilt

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>

>Thanks Helen -- very interesting comments. I wish Dr. Cheney or his

>patient Carol

>Sieverling would post this information on her website. She still has

>transcripts of her

>conversation with the doctor from six years ago where he doesn't mention

>the negatives.

>

>Sincerely,

>

>Dan

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > I have been on Klonopin for 7 years and I got well while on it.

>Now

> > > > I'm coming off because I don't think I need it anymore. But you now

> > > > know at least 1 person who got well even while they were taking it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Doris

> > > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > > > From: pjeanneus

> > > > > Dr. Schaller,

> > > > > Dr. Cheney is not using low dose Klonopin for anxiety. He is

>using

> > >it

> > > > > on sick people with cfids to stop " seizure activity " in the

>brain. I

> > > > > have known a lot of his patients while living near Charlotte,

>NC.

> > > > > They continued very sick. I have known a few patients on

>Klonopin. I

> > > > > cannot see where it helped them. Indeed, they remain among the

> > > > > sickest patients I have known and one of them is now dead-

>probably

> > > > > not from the Klonopin.

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

We certainly DO have our differences in brain chemistry/body chemistry

I would guess. I had to come off xanax a long time ago (quite awhile

before I had this, and it was a small dosage). It was like a living

hell!! I mean, after I stopped taking the damn stuff suddenly I had

tempomandibular joint disorder (thought at the time it was an ear

infection which is the pain level from it.

I thought, oh God, no benzo ever again!! Later some damn fool tried to

give it to me once agin (anxiety) but I refused; no way was I going to

get back on that stuff.

Later there came a situation where I did seriously need an anxiety med;

so did go on the smallest dose of Klonopin; half three times a day. For

some reason from what I see on boards it is a popular one to be

prescribed although I was not given this by my ME/ fibro doc.

Thing is here, though which causes me to post; benzos are addictive

as all hell; (the longer you are ON it the worse it will be,AND the

more of a tendency towards addiction or alcoholism you have like me,

the worse it is to come off).

In the city I live in they are somewhat popular to abuse, but these

days there's oxycotin, and a few others like that which are a great

deal more popular. (Stronger.) But no junkie is going to turn down a

bunch of klonopin or xanax if the 'real thing' isn't around. I rather

think it is more than fift percent if the person has been on the benzo

in question more than, say, a month...

Jane

>

> There is this subtle distinction between addiction and dependence

> that drug> companies exploit and basically lie about. Benzos are not

addictive > in the> sense that most users crave or abuse them although

a few do, but > they are> very much a substance that many become

physically dependent on and > have a> bitch of a time coming off them.

Seems to depend on genetics, and the> doctors I worked with thought it

was about 50% of the population who > would> have trouble coming off.

[Guest guest]

> >

> > There is this subtle distinction between addiction and

dependence

> > that drug> companies exploit and basically lie about. Benzos are

not

> addictive > in the> sense that most users crave or abuse them

although

> a few do, but > they are> very much a substance that many become

> physically dependent on and > have a> bitch of a time coming off

them.

> Seems to depend on genetics, and the> doctors I worked with

thought it

> was about 50% of the population who > would> have trouble coming

off.

>

[Guest guest]

I wrote it and allow me to clarify. The doctor, who has helped many a person

come off benzos, told me that 50% of people can come off a benzo by making

10% cuts every second week and not have bad symptoms, the other 50% are in

for a rough time. I was in the second group.

Helen

>From: " Dianne " <boyzee12000@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Demon Klonopin/ Suicide Rates/False Guilt

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>

>

> > >

> > > There is this subtle distinction between addiction and

>dependence

> > > that drug> companies exploit and basically lie about. Benzos are

>not

> > addictive > in the> sense that most users crave or abuse them

>although

> > a few do, but > they are> very much a substance that many become

> > physically dependent on and > have a> bitch of a time coming off

>them.

> > Seems to depend on genetics, and the> doctors I worked with

>thought it

> > was about 50% of the population who > would> have trouble coming

>off.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kat, Add two more. My wife (CFS, FM,Lyme) and I (Lyme) have only positive

response to klonopin. I can't imagine being without it. Mel

Re: Demon Klonopin/ Suicide Rates/False Guilt

Klonopin is helping me a lot. Now I go straight to sleep, don't wake

during the night, and wake up feeling more refreshed than when I went

to sleep.

So that's 2 people.

Kat.

>

> I have been on Klonopin for 7 years and I got well while on it. Now

I'm coming off because I don't think I need it anymore. But you now

know at least 1 person who got well even while they were taking it.

>

> Doris

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: pjeanneus

> Dr. Schaller,

> Dr. Cheney is not using low dose Klonopin for anxiety. He is using it

> on sick people with cfids to stop " seizure activity " in the brain. I

> have known a lot of his patients while living near Charlotte, NC.

> They continued very sick. I have known a few patients on Klonopin. I

> cannot see where it helped them. Indeed, they remain among the

> sickest patients I have known and one of them is now dead- probably

> not from the Klonopin.

>

>