Re: Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

[Guest guest]

Mel and all

I am sitting here with an unfilled script for Klonopin from a doc I respect.

However, I would not touch that stuff with a ten foot pole.

My late (adopted) son had significant seizure disorder including episodes of

status epilepticus and we learned over the years to supplement his brain to

calm the seizure activity, decrease significantly those drugs..... which were

part of the problem.

When using GABA, inositol is a cofactor. I've had good benefit with this

combo for sleep, brain calming, etc.

THere truly is more than one way to skin a rabbit......

mjh

Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:50:58 -0500

From: Mel Baldwin <alphabear@...>

Subject: Re: Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

Marcia, Klonopin , like valium, librium, etc., is a benzodiazepine, a class

of psychotropic drugs that work on the gaba receptors in the brain, producing

a calming effect. Klonopin and librium are used often in controlling

seizures. This works by calming the overfiring neurons, a condition that can

lead to

their destruction...physical brain damage. If, then, one has these

overfiring neurons in their brain, the choice is to calm them or lose them..the

body

does not tolerate these overactive processes. For some, the amino acid ,

GABA, will provide the calming, protective function. If that is not adequate,

the

best alternative, in my opionion, is klonopin. My wife and I have used

klonopin in1-2 mg daily doses for more than ten years with nothing but benefit.

Benzodiazepines have received a bad rap due to abuse and inappropriate

application. Granted, it is easier to start klonopin than to DC it. But, there

are no

perfect meds that only do one thing exactly as we want them to work. Benzos

can be DC'd without consequence if done very slowly, preferably with the

liquified version. I would suggest the adding GABA 500-1000 ng would facilitate

withdrawal. One more point on the general subject of benzodiazapines. I

worked 50 years with psychiatric medications, from the invention of thoraxine

to

the miracle antipsychotic, zyprexa. Of them all, benzodazepines were the least

problematic, most undervalued, and most maligned. Mel PS: Klonopin is

best taken at nite as it DOES facilitate sleep...but so does GABA PPS: The

FDA is NOT your friend.

----- Original Message -----

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

[Guest guest]

Perhaps Cheney, who I do NOT know, was risking something trying to be kind.

I suspect he would be delighted not to have to have a copy of each of his

benzo scripts reviewed by the local DEA.

Dr. Schaller

Hi Dr SChaller,

I've never been a patient of Cheneys myself (he's the CFS expert that began in

incline Village with when CFS got the label). I've read a lot of his

work. He beleives the cfs brain on a straight line with 'normal' in the middle

and coma on one side and seizure on the other, is shifted toward the seizure

side as part of the condition. He beleives the Klonopin to be neuroprotective in

protecting the brain from this shift toward the seizure side. Most people take

it to help with their sleep. I did try a low dose years ago and was pretty

unimpressed with what it did/didn't do for me and was unwilling to risk the

addiction part I've read others dealing with. Anyway, thats his thinking, that

its actually 'protective' of the brain.

Marcia

[Guest guest]

Marcia, Klonopin , like valium, librium, etc., is a benzodiazepine, a class of

psychotropic drugs that work on the gaba receptors in the brain, producing a

calming effect. Klonopin and librium are used often in controlling seizures.

This works by calming the overfiring neurons, a condition that can lead to their

destruction...physical brain damage. If, then, one has these overfiring neurons

in their brain, the choice is to calm them or lose them..the body does not

tolerate these overactive processes. For some, the amino acid , GABA, will

provide the calming, protective function. If that is not adequate, the best

alternative, in my opionion, is klonopin. My wife and I have used klonopin in1-2

mg daily doses for more than ten years with nothing but benefit. Benzodiazepines

have received a bad rap due to abuse and inappropriate application. Granted, it

is easier to start klonopin than to DC it. But, there are no perfect meds that

only do one thing exactly as we want them to work. Benzos can be DC'd without

consequence if done very slowly, preferably with the liquified version. I would

suggest the adding GABA 500-1000 ng would facilitate withdrawal. One more point

on the general subject of benzodiazapines. I worked 50 years with psychiatric

medications, from the invention of thoraxine to the miracle antipsychotic,

zyprexa. Of them all, benzodazepines were the least problematic, most

undervalued, and most maligned. Mel PS: Klonopin is best taken at nite as it

DOES facilitate sleep...but so does GABA PPS: The FDA is NOT your friend.

Re: Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

Perhaps Cheney, who I do NOT know, was risking something trying to be kind.

I suspect he would be delighted not to have to have a copy of each of his

benzo scripts reviewed by the local DEA.

Dr. Schaller

Hi Dr SChaller,

I've never been a patient of Cheneys myself (he's the CFS expert that began in

incline Village with when CFS got the label). I've read a lot of his

work. He beleives the cfs brain on a straight line with 'normal' in the middle

and coma on one side and seizure on the other, is shifted toward the seizure

side as part of the condition. He beleives the Klonopin to be neuroprotective in

protecting the brain from this shift toward the seizure side. Most people take

it to help with their sleep. I did try a low dose years ago and was pretty

unimpressed with what it did/didn't do for me and was unwilling to risk the

addiction part I've read others dealing with. Anyway, thats his thinking, that

its actually 'protective' of the brain.

Marcia

[Guest guest]

Magnesium, and benzo's, are necessary for some with this chronic

infection. It's better to dampen the effects of glutamate, which is

upregulated and neurotoxic, in lyme and friends. Magnesium reversibly

inhibits calcium/glutamate, benzos tilt you back toward gaba and away

from glutamate. Excess glutamate and lack of sleep are worse imo.

>

> Perhaps Cheney, who I do NOT know, was risking something trying to

be kind.

> I suspect he would be delighted not to have to have a copy of each

of his

> benzo scripts reviewed by the local DEA.

>

> Dr. Schaller

>

> Hi Dr SChaller,

>

> I've never been a patient of Cheneys myself (he's the CFS expert

that began in incline Village with when CFS got the label).

I've read a lot of his work. He beleives the cfs brain on a straight

line with 'normal' in the middle and coma on one side and seizure on

the other, is shifted toward the seizure side as part of the

condition. He beleives the Klonopin to be neuroprotective in

protecting the brain from this shift toward the seizure side. Most

people take it to help with their sleep. I did try a low dose years

ago and was pretty unimpressed with what it did/didn't do for me and

was unwilling to risk the addiction part I've read others dealing

with. Anyway, thats his thinking, that its actually 'protective' of

the brain.

>

> Marcia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We like to think that the major problem with Klonopin will only be

seen if we try to get off it - it is tough to impossible to get off

it without serious difficulty.

But there is an even more serious possibility with Klonopin if it

suppresses the immune system. This is similar to the problems with

steroids - sometimes you have to take them, but they don't fix the

disease. Here is the drug insert for Klonopin from Roche. It looks to

me like some of the side effects of Klonopin include immune system

suppression - not something you want with Lyme. Also many of the side

effects overlapp with Lyme symptoms.

There have to be better choices.

a Carnes

http://www.druginfonet.com/index.php?pageID=klonopin.htm

Respiratory: Chest congestion, rhinorrhea, shortness of breath,

hypersecretion in upper respiratory passages.

Cardiovascular: Palpitations.

Dermatologic: Hair loss, hirsutism, skin rash, ankle and facial

edema.

Gastrointestinal: Anorexia, coated tongue, constipation, diarrhea,

dry mouth, encopresis, gastritis, hepatomegaly, increased appetite,

nausea, sore gums.

Genitourinary: Dysuria, enuresis, nocturia, urinary retention.

Musculoskeletal: Muscle weakness, pains. Miscellaneous: Dehydration,

general deterioration, fever, lymphadenopathy, weight loss or gain.

Hematopoietic: Anemia, leukopenia, thrombocytopenia, eosinophilia.

Hepatic: Transient elevations of serum transaminases and alkaline

phosphatase.

>

>

>

> Mel and all

>

>

>

> I am sitting here with an unfilled script for Klonopin from a doc

I respect.

> However, I would not touch that stuff with a ten foot pole.

>

> My late (adopted) son had significant seizure disorder including

episodes of

> status epilepticus and we learned over the years to supplement his

brain to

> calm the seizure activity, decrease significantly those drugs.....

which were

> part of the problem.

>

> When using GABA, inositol is a cofactor. I've had good benefit

with this

> combo for sleep, brain calming, etc.

>

>

>

>

>

> THere truly is more than one way to skin a rabbit......

>

>

> mjh

>

> Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:50:58 -0500

> From: Mel Baldwin <alphabear@...>

> Subject: Re: Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

>

> Marcia, Klonopin , like valium, librium, etc., is a

benzodiazepine, a class

> of psychotropic drugs that work on the gaba receptors in the

brain, producing

> a calming effect. Klonopin and librium are used often in

controlling

> seizures. This works by calming the overfiring neurons, a

condition that can lead to

> their destruction...physical brain damage. If, then, one has these

> overfiring neurons in their brain, the choice is to calm them or

lose them..the body

> does not tolerate these overactive processes. For some, the amino

acid ,

> GABA, will provide the calming, protective function. If that is

not adequate, the

> best alternative, in my opionion, is klonopin. My wife and I have

used

> klonopin in1-2 mg daily doses for more than ten years with nothing

but benefit.

> Benzodiazepines have received a bad rap due to abuse and

inappropriate

> application. Granted, it is easier to start klonopin than to DC

it. But, there are no

> perfect meds that only do one thing exactly as we want them to

work. Benzos

> can be DC'd without consequence if done very slowly, preferably

with the

> liquified version. I would suggest the adding GABA 500-1000 ng

would facilitate

> withdrawal. One more point on the general subject of

benzodiazapines. I

> worked 50 years with psychiatric medications, from the invention

of thoraxine to

> the miracle antipsychotic, zyprexa. Of them all, benzodazepines

were the least

> problematic, most undervalued, and most maligned. Mel PS:

Klonopin is

> best taken at nite as it DOES facilitate sleep...but so does GABA

PPS: The

> FDA is NOT your friend.

> ----- Original Message -----

>

>

>

> mjh

> " The Basil Book "

> http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

>

>

> >

[Guest guest]

I've never listened to the FDA, not sure why you mentioned that to me?. I was

just explaining Cheney's rationale for rec. Klonopin. I used it myself awhile

and it did nothing to help me, I took it at night for sleep but it didn't help.

I wasn't willing to keep increasing the dose, I chose to deal with my illness in

other ways. I tapered off fairly slow by breaking the pills smaller and didn't

have any problems getting off, but I have read of other cfs patients who've had

a miserable time getting off it.

Marcia

Re: Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

Marcia, Klonopin , like valium, librium, etc., is a benzodiazepine, a class of

psychotropic drugs that work on the gaba receptors in the brain, producing a

calming effect. Klonopin and librium are used often in controlling seizures.

This works by calming the overfiring neurons, a condition that can lead to their

destruction...physical brain damage. If, then, one has these overfiring neurons

in their brain, the choice is to calm them or lose them..the body does not

tolerate these overactive processes. For some, the amino acid , GABA, will

provide the calming, protective function. If that is not adequate, the best

alternative, in my opionion, is klonopin. My wife and I have used klonopin in1-2

mg daily doses for more than ten years with nothing but benefit. Benzodiazepines

have received a bad rap due to abuse and inappropriate application. Granted, it

is easier to start klonopin than to DC it. But, there are no perfect meds that

only do one thing exactly as we want them to work. Benzos can be DC'd without

consequence if done very slowly, preferably with the liquified version. I would

suggest the adding GABA 500-1000 ng would facilitate withdrawal. One more point

on the general subject of benzodiazapines. I worked 50 years with psychiatric

medications, from the invention of thoraxine to the miracle antipsychotic,

zyprexa. Of them all, benzodazepines were the least problematic, most

undervalued, and most maligned. Mel PS: Klonopin is best taken at nite as it

DOES facilitate sleep...but so does GABA PPS: The FDA is NOT your friend.

[Guest guest]

Thank you.

While not my angle. Sounds like he is trying, even if many of us would go in

very different directions in diagnosis and treatments.

Dr. J

Re: Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

> Perhaps Cheney, who I do NOT know, was risking something trying to be

> kind.

> I suspect he would be delighted not to have to have a copy of each of his

> benzo scripts reviewed by the local DEA.

>

> Dr. Schaller

>

> Hi Dr SChaller,

>

> I've never been a patient of Cheneys myself (he's the CFS expert that

> began in incline Village with when CFS got the label). I've read

> a lot of his work. He beleives the cfs brain on a straight line with

> 'normal' in the middle and coma on one side and seizure on the other, is

> shifted toward the seizure side as part of the condition. He beleives the

> Klonopin to be neuroprotective in protecting the brain from this shift

> toward the seizure side. Most people take it to help with their sleep. I

> did try a low dose years ago and was pretty unimpressed with what it

> did/didn't do for me and was unwilling to risk the addiction part I've

> read others dealing with. Anyway, thats his thinking, that its actually

> 'protective' of the brain.

>

> Marcia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think its individual, depending on your genetics/biochemistry--as it

is with all drugs. I have two friends (non lymies) who were taking

heavy doses of klonipin, and both were able to stop it cold turkey.

Others have a horrible time from what I hear. I don't know about how

the other benzos compare.

> >

> >

> >

> > Mel and all

> >

> >

> >

> > I am sitting here with an unfilled script for Klonopin from a doc

> I respect.

> > However, I would not touch that stuff with a ten foot pole.

> >

> > My late (adopted) son had significant seizure disorder including

> episodes of

> > status epilepticus and we learned over the years to supplement his

> brain to

> > calm the seizure activity, decrease significantly those drugs.....

> which were

> > part of the problem.

> >

> > When using GABA, inositol is a cofactor. I've had good benefit

> with this

> > combo for sleep, brain calming, etc.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > THere truly is more than one way to skin a rabbit......

> >

> >

> > mjh

> >

> > Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:50:58 -0500

> > From: Mel Baldwin <alphabear@>

> > Subject: Re: Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

> >

> > Marcia, Klonopin , like valium, librium, etc., is a

> benzodiazepine, a class

> > of psychotropic drugs that work on the gaba receptors in the

> brain, producing

> > a calming effect. Klonopin and librium are used often in

> controlling

> > seizures. This works by calming the overfiring neurons, a

> condition that can lead to

> > their destruction...physical brain damage. If, then, one has these

> > overfiring neurons in their brain, the choice is to calm them or

> lose them..the body

> > does not tolerate these overactive processes. For some, the amino

> acid ,

> > GABA, will provide the calming, protective function. If that is

> not adequate, the

> > best alternative, in my opionion, is klonopin. My wife and I have

> used

> > klonopin in1-2 mg daily doses for more than ten years with nothing

> but benefit.

> > Benzodiazepines have received a bad rap due to abuse and

> inappropriate

> > application. Granted, it is easier to start klonopin than to DC

> it. But, there are no

> > perfect meds that only do one thing exactly as we want them to

> work. Benzos

> > can be DC'd without consequence if done very slowly, preferably

> with the

> > liquified version. I would suggest the adding GABA 500-1000 ng

> would facilitate

> > withdrawal. One more point on the general subject of

> benzodiazapines. I

> > worked 50 years with psychiatric medications, from the invention

> of thoraxine to

> > the miracle antipsychotic, zyprexa. Of them all, benzodazepines

> were the least

> > problematic, most undervalued, and most maligned. Mel PS:

> Klonopin is

> > best taken at nite as it DOES facilitate sleep...but so does GABA

> PPS: The

> > FDA is NOT your friend.

> > ----- Original Message -----

> >

> >

> >

> > mjh

> > " The Basil Book "

> > http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

> >

> >

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

Jill, I need to talk with you about the glutamate, glutamine, ammonia subject

that was being discussed some weeks ago. I didn't incorporate all that at the

time. Now I think I'm on to something big but I'm in over my head. I have to run

but later....Mel

Re: Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

Magnesium, and benzo's, are necessary for some with this chronic

infection. It's better to dampen the effects of glutamate, which is

upregulated and neurotoxic, in lyme and friends. Magnesium reversibly

inhibits calcium/glutamate, benzos tilt you back toward gaba and away

from glutamate. Excess glutamate and lack of sleep are worse imo.

>

> Perhaps Cheney, who I do NOT know, was risking something trying to

be kind.

> I suspect he would be delighted not to have to have a copy of each

of his

> benzo scripts reviewed by the local DEA.

>

> Dr. Schaller

>

> Hi Dr SChaller,

>

> I've never been a patient of Cheneys myself (he's the CFS expert

that began in incline Village with when CFS got the label).

I've read a lot of his work. He beleives the cfs brain on a straight

line with 'normal' in the middle and coma on one side and seizure on

the other, is shifted toward the seizure side as part of the

condition. He beleives the Klonopin to be neuroprotective in

protecting the brain from this shift toward the seizure side. Most

people take it to help with their sleep. I did try a low dose years

ago and was pretty unimpressed with what it did/didn't do for me and

was unwilling to risk the addiction part I've read others dealing

with. Anyway, thats his thinking, that its actually 'protective' of

the brain.

>

> Marcia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think he did a lot of good work, he just entirely missed the

lyme/bacterial angle.

>

> Thank you.

>

> While not my angle. Sounds like he is trying, even if many of us

would go in

> very different directions in diagnosis and treatments.

>

> Dr. J

>

> Re: Questioning Cheney for Treating

Anxiety?

>

>

> > Perhaps Cheney, who I do NOT know, was risking something trying

to be

> > kind.

> > I suspect he would be delighted not to have to have a copy of each

of his

> > benzo scripts reviewed by the local DEA.

> >

> > Dr. Schaller

> >

> > Hi Dr SChaller,

> >

> > I've never been a patient of Cheneys myself (he's the CFS expert that

> > began in incline Village with when CFS got the label).

I've read

> > a lot of his work. He beleives the cfs brain on a straight line with

> > 'normal' in the middle and coma on one side and seizure on the

other, is

> > shifted toward the seizure side as part of the condition. He

beleives the

> > Klonopin to be neuroprotective in protecting the brain from this

shift

> > toward the seizure side. Most people take it to help with their

sleep. I

> > did try a low dose years ago and was pretty unimpressed with what it

> > did/didn't do for me and was unwilling to risk the addiction part

I've

> > read others dealing with. Anyway, thats his thinking, that its

actually

> > 'protective' of the brain.

> >

> > Marcia

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

In addition to the sleep problems that most PWCs have, there is

a horrible anxiety/panic disorder for many of us, especially in the

first few years. For example, I remember going in to a grocery

store and wondering if I would be able to make it around to just

get a few things. What did I think was going to happen to me?

Don't know, just anxiety. Panic attacks are common as well, and

for anyone who has had one it feels like you are going to die.

Sooo, klonopin is somewhat of a life saver for some of us. Where

I disagree w/ Cheney is on taking it during the day, up to 1 mg.

If you take it at night too, it is in your system 24/7 and you are

sure to have problems when you try to stop taking it.

Personally, I try to only take .5 mg x five times a week. I have

gone days without it and I don't suffer any cravings. In sum, the

drug is controversial, but necessary for some.

Mike C

> >

> > Perhaps Cheney, who I do NOT know, was risking something trying

to

> be kind.

> > I suspect he would be delighted not to have to have a copy of

each

> of his

> > benzo scripts reviewed by the local DEA.

> >

> > Dr. Schaller

> >

> > Hi Dr SChaller,

> >

[Guest guest]

Which side effect is the immune suppression, leukopenia? Sorry, I

am not familiar with some medical terms. But since I am using K,

I would like to know. I also have chronically low WBC count.

Mike C

>

> We like to think that the major problem with Klonopin will only be

> seen if we try to get off it - it is tough to impossible to get

off

> it without serious difficulty.

>

> But there is an even more serious possibility with Klonopin if it

> suppresses the immune system. This is similar to the problems with

> steroids - sometimes you have to take them, but they don't fix the

> disease. Here is the drug insert for Klonopin from Roche. It looks

to

> me like some of the side effects of Klonopin include immune system

> suppression - not something you want with Lyme. Also many of the

side

> effects overlapp with Lyme symptoms.

>

> There have to be better choices.

>

> a Carnes

>

> http://www.druginfonet.com/index.php?pageID=klonopin.htm

> Respiratory: Chest congestion, rhinorrhea, shortness of breath,

> hypersecretion in upper respiratory passages.

>

> Cardiovascular: Palpitations.

>

> Dermatologic: Hair loss, hirsutism, skin rash, ankle and facial

> edema.

>

> Gastrointestinal: Anorexia, coated tongue, constipation, diarrhea,

> dry mouth, encopresis, gastritis, hepatomegaly, increased

appetite,

> nausea, sore gums.

>

> Genitourinary: Dysuria, enuresis, nocturia, urinary retention.

> Musculoskeletal: Muscle weakness, pains. Miscellaneous:

Dehydration,

> general deterioration, fever, lymphadenopathy, weight loss or

gain.

>

> Hematopoietic: Anemia, leukopenia, thrombocytopenia, eosinophilia.

>

> Hepatic: Transient elevations of serum transaminases and alkaline

> phosphatase.

[Guest guest]

The most common causes of FMS all have low WBC's

Re: Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

> Which side effect is the immune suppression, leukopenia? Sorry, I

> am not familiar with some medical terms. But since I am using K,

> I would like to know. I also have chronically low WBC count.

>

> Mike C

>

>

>

>>

>> We like to think that the major problem with Klonopin will only be

>> seen if we try to get off it - it is tough to impossible to get

> off

>> it without serious difficulty.

>>

>> But there is an even more serious possibility with Klonopin if it

>> suppresses the immune system. This is similar to the problems with

>> steroids - sometimes you have to take them, but they don't fix the

>> disease. Here is the drug insert for Klonopin from Roche. It looks

> to

>> me like some of the side effects of Klonopin include immune system

>> suppression - not something you want with Lyme. Also many of the

> side

>> effects overlapp with Lyme symptoms.

>>

>> There have to be better choices.

>>

>> a Carnes

>>

>> http://www.druginfonet.com/index.php?pageID=klonopin.htm

>> Respiratory: Chest congestion, rhinorrhea, shortness of breath,

>> hypersecretion in upper respiratory passages.

>>

>> Cardiovascular: Palpitations.

>>

>> Dermatologic: Hair loss, hirsutism, skin rash, ankle and facial

>> edema.

>>

>> Gastrointestinal: Anorexia, coated tongue, constipation, diarrhea,

>> dry mouth, encopresis, gastritis, hepatomegaly, increased

> appetite,

>> nausea, sore gums.

>>

>> Genitourinary: Dysuria, enuresis, nocturia, urinary retention.

>> Musculoskeletal: Muscle weakness, pains. Miscellaneous:

> Dehydration,

>> general deterioration, fever, lymphadenopathy, weight loss or

> gain.

>>

>> Hematopoietic: Anemia, leukopenia, thrombocytopenia, eosinophilia.

>>

>> Hepatic: Transient elevations of serum transaminases and alkaline

>> phosphatase.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

I agree a. Of course I'm not a doctor, but if one develops leukopenia (a

low white

blood cell count), I would think that would consitute " suppressinig " the immune

system.

???

And I also agree there has to be a better way. Anxiety and/or brain

overstimulation or

" overfiring " is not due to a deficiency of some drug. Like I mentioned earlier,

when I could

afford to balance my gut bacteria and lower my candida levels, my anxiety very

nearly

disappeared. I just can't afford $50-100 a month to do that now...and medicaid

won't

cover probiotics, so I'm stuck for now with klonopin (clonazepam) and finding I

may need

to increase my dose to 2mgs/day, something I'd rather not do...

Dan

p.s. If I don't reply for a few days it's because I need to stay off the

computer more lately.

> >

> >

> >

> > Mel and all

> >

> >

> >

> > I am sitting here with an unfilled script for Klonopin from a doc

> I respect.

> > However, I would not touch that stuff with a ten foot pole.

> >

> > My late (adopted) son had significant seizure disorder including

> episodes of

> > status epilepticus and we learned over the years to supplement his

> brain to

> > calm the seizure activity, decrease significantly those drugs.....

> which were

> > part of the problem.

> >

> > When using GABA, inositol is a cofactor. I've had good benefit

> with this

> > combo for sleep, brain calming, etc.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > THere truly is more than one way to skin a rabbit......

> >

> >

> > mjh

> >

> > Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:50:58 -0500

> > From: Mel Baldwin <alphabear@>

> > Subject: Re: Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

> >

> > Marcia, Klonopin , like valium, librium, etc., is a

> benzodiazepine, a class

> > of psychotropic drugs that work on the gaba receptors in the

> brain, producing

> > a calming effect. Klonopin and librium are used often in

> controlling

> > seizures. This works by calming the overfiring neurons, a

> condition that can lead to

> > their destruction...physical brain damage. If, then, one has these

> > overfiring neurons in their brain, the choice is to calm them or

> lose them..the body

> > does not tolerate these overactive processes. For some, the amino

> acid ,

> > GABA, will provide the calming, protective function. If that is

> not adequate, the

> > best alternative, in my opionion, is klonopin. My wife and I have

> used

> > klonopin in1-2 mg daily doses for more than ten years with nothing

> but benefit.

> > Benzodiazepines have received a bad rap due to abuse and

> inappropriate

> > application. Granted, it is easier to start klonopin than to DC

> it. But, there are no

> > perfect meds that only do one thing exactly as we want them to

> work. Benzos

> > can be DC'd without consequence if done very slowly, preferably

> with the

> > liquified version. I would suggest the adding GABA 500-1000 ng

> would facilitate

> > withdrawal. One more point on the general subject of

> benzodiazapines. I

> > worked 50 years with psychiatric medications, from the invention

> of thoraxine to

> > the miracle antipsychotic, zyprexa. Of them all, benzodazepines

> were the least

> > problematic, most undervalued, and most maligned. Mel PS:

> Klonopin is

> > best taken at nite as it DOES facilitate sleep...but so does GABA

> PPS: The

> > FDA is NOT your friend.

> > ----- Original Message -----

> >

> >

> >

> > mjh

> > " The Basil Book "

> > http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

> >

> >

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

I keep seeing this anxiety thread and concern with Klonopin suppressing the

immune system. I remember that in classic CFS/CFIDS, part of the immune system

is in high gear...will not turn down. (and producing toxic levels of cytocines).

It is why immune stimulants are a big NO! (Different from immune-modulators,

which are good.)

But another part of system is " stagnant in the test tube " ...not functioning.

Don't know if this is the part that Kenny D M says is " chopped up in pieces. " I

don't know if Klonopin would make those any worse.

About Lyme, I don't know what the immune system is doing. I only know that

CFS/CFIDS docs use Klonopin. And I have never heard that it was " for anxiety "

for us, but for *sensory overload*, over-firing neurons (therefore protecting

them), and maybe restorative sleep??. Some CFS patients have extreme actual pain

in the brain, which is only relived by Klonopin and hell without it.

I am in the sensory overload/relief category and brain pain categories, but

latter not as extreme as some. I've been able to use and benefit from small

doses only.

" Normal " doses of Klonopin caused too much sedation, and instant depression for

me.

GABA has been of some help, but not enough. Neurontin helps, but I don't like

the side effects.

Klonopin is also the drug of choice for many who have Essential Tremor and

Dystonia, which I have. Dystonia is opposing muscles contracting...very painful

and causing postural twisting.

I had an MRS brain scan with Dr. Cheney a year ago, and it showed Several

lactate peaks

in my brain. That , in higher peaks is seen in Mitochondrial disease.

My report says results indicate discrete {brain} injury.

Mine are near the thymus (he said could connect to the sensory overload, the

basal ganglia (could connect to the movement disorders). Also cerebral spinal

fluid, and I forgot what else.

Just a bunch of scattered notes I thought of.

Katrina

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Mel and all

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I am sitting here with an unfilled script for Klonopin from a doc

> > I respect.

> > > However, I would not touch that stuff with a ten foot pole.

> > >

> > > My late (adopted) son had significant seizure disorder including

> > episodes of

> > > status epilepticus and we learned over the years to supplement his

> > brain to

> > > calm the seizure activity, decrease significantly those drugs.....

> > which were

> > > part of the problem.

> > >

> > > When using GABA, inositol is a cofactor. I've had good benefit

> > with this

> > > combo for sleep, brain calming, etc.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > THere truly is more than one way to skin a rabbit......

> > >

> > >

> > > mjh

> > >

> > > Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:50:58 -0500

> > > From: Mel Baldwin <alphabear@>

> > > Subject: Re: Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

> > >

> > > Marcia, Klonopin , like valium, librium, etc., is a

> > benzodiazepine, a class

> > > of psychotropic drugs that work on the gaba receptors in the

> > brain, producing

> > > a calming effect. Klonopin and librium are used often in

> > controlling

> > > seizures. This works by calming the overfiring neurons, a

> > condition that can lead to

> > > their destruction...physical brain damage. If, then, one has these

> > > overfiring neurons in their brain, the choice is to calm them or

> > lose them..the body

> > > does not tolerate these overactive processes. For some, the amino

> > acid ,

> > > GABA, will provide the calming, protective function. If that is

> > not adequate, the

> > > best alternative, in my opionion, is klonopin. My wife and I have

> > used

> > > klonopin in1-2 mg daily doses for more than ten years with nothing

> > but benefit.

> > > Benzodiazepines have received a bad rap due to abuse and

> > inappropriate

> > > application. Granted, it is easier to start klonopin than to DC

> > it. But, there are no

> > > perfect meds that only do one thing exactly as we want them to

> > work. Benzos

> > > can be DC'd without consequence if done very slowly, preferably

> > with the

> > > liquified version. I would suggest the adding GABA 500-1000 ng

> > would facilitate

> > > withdrawal. One more point on the general subject of

> > benzodiazapines. I

> > > worked 50 years with psychiatric medications, from the invention

> > of thoraxine to

> > > the miracle antipsychotic, zyprexa. Of them all, benzodazepines

> > were the least

> > > problematic, most undervalued, and most maligned. Mel PS:

> > Klonopin is

> > > best taken at nite as it DOES facilitate sleep...but so does GABA

> > PPS: The

> > > FDA is NOT your friend.

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > mjh

> > > " The Basil Book "

> > > http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Here's a pretty amazing natural Chinese/Japanese herb, Cepharanthin -

which my doctor gave me for an allergic reaction - and is also good

for leukopnia in that also stimulates the production of white blood

cells:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search & DB=pubmed

Remember that microwaves and other EMFs have the negative effect of

lowering both red and white blood cell counts in the blood. In the

first case, we see a lack of oxygen getting to the brain and in the

second, a weakened immune system.

Regards,

paul doyon

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Mel and all

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I am sitting here with an unfilled script for Klonopin from a

doc

> > I respect.

> > > However, I would not touch that stuff with a ten foot pole.

> > >

> > > My late (adopted) son had significant seizure disorder

including

> > episodes of

> > > status epilepticus and we learned over the years to supplement

his

> > brain to

> > > calm the seizure activity, decrease significantly those

drugs.....

> > which were

> > > part of the problem.

> > >

> > > When using GABA, inositol is a cofactor. I've had good benefit

> > with this

> > > combo for sleep, brain calming, etc.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > THere truly is more than one way to skin a rabbit......

> > >

> > >

> > > mjh

> > >

> > > Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:50:58 -0500

> > > From: Mel Baldwin <alphabear@>

> > > Subject: Re: Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

> > >

> > > Marcia, Klonopin , like valium, librium, etc., is a

> > benzodiazepine, a class

> > > of psychotropic drugs that work on the gaba receptors in the

> > brain, producing

> > > a calming effect. Klonopin and librium are used often in

> > controlling

> > > seizures. This works by calming the overfiring neurons, a

> > condition that can lead to

> > > their destruction...physical brain damage. If, then, one has

these

> > > overfiring neurons in their brain, the choice is to calm them

or

> > lose them..the body

> > > does not tolerate these overactive processes. For some, the

amino

> > acid ,

> > > GABA, will provide the calming, protective function. If that is

> > not adequate, the

> > > best alternative, in my opionion, is klonopin. My wife and I

have

> > used

> > > klonopin in1-2 mg daily doses for more than ten years with

nothing

> > but benefit.

> > > Benzodiazepines have received a bad rap due to abuse and

> > inappropriate

> > > application. Granted, it is easier to start klonopin than to

DC

> > it. But, there are no

> > > perfect meds that only do one thing exactly as we want them to

> > work. Benzos

> > > can be DC'd without consequence if done very slowly,

preferably

> > with the

> > > liquified version. I would suggest the adding GABA 500-1000 ng

> > would facilitate

> > > withdrawal. One more point on the general subject of

> > benzodiazapines. I

> > > worked 50 years with psychiatric medications, from the

invention

> > of thoraxine to

> > > the miracle antipsychotic, zyprexa. Of them all,

benzodazepines

> > were the least

> > > problematic, most undervalued, and most maligned. Mel PS:

> > Klonopin is

> > > best taken at nite as it DOES facilitate sleep...but so does

GABA

> > PPS: The

> > > FDA is NOT your friend.

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > mjh

> > > " The Basil Book "

> > > http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Katrina,

I have episodes of a sudden twisting of my torso, I can be laying in

bed and then suddenly a force partially sit up me up and twists my

torso, they are extremely powerful - it's like a huge spasm. By any

chance does this sound like Dystonia? There are other parts of my body

do this.

Thanks Katrina,

L

On Apr 9, 2006, at 2:39 AM, kattemayo wrote:

> Klonopin is also the drug of choice for many who have Essential

> Tremor and Dystonia, which I have. Dystonia is opposing muscles

> contracting...very painful and causing postural twisting.

>

> I had an MRS brain scan with Dr. Cheney a year ago, and it showed

> Several lactate peaks

> in my brain. That , in higher peaks is seen in Mitochondrial disease.

> My report says results indicate discrete {brain} injury.

>

> Mine are near the thymus (he said could connect to the sensory

> overload, the basal ganglia (could connect to the movement disorders).

> Also cerebral spinal fluid, and I forgot what else.

>

> Just a bunch of scattered notes I thought of.

>

> Katrina

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > > 

> > > > Mel and all

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > I am sitting here with an unfilled script for Klonopin from a

> doc

> > > I  respect.

> > > >  However, I would not touch that stuff with a ten foot  pole.

> > > > 

> > > > My late (adopted) son had significant seizure disorder

> including 

> > > episodes of

> > > > status epilepticus and we learned over the years to supplement 

> his

> > > brain to

> > > > calm the seizure activity, decrease significantly those 

> drugs.....

> > > which were

> > > > part of the problem.

> > > > 

> > > > When using GABA, inositol is a cofactor.  I've had good benefit 

> > > with this

> > > > combo for sleep, brain calming, etc.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > THere truly is more than one way to skin a rabbit......

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > > mjh

> > > >

> > > > Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:50:58 -0500

> > > > From: Mel Baldwin <alphabear@>

> > > > Subject: Re:  Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

> > > >

> > > > Marcia, Klonopin , like  valium, librium, etc., is a

> > > benzodiazepine, a class

> > > > of psychotropic drugs  that work on the gaba receptors in the

> > > brain, producing

> > > > a calming effect.  Klonopin and librium are used often in

> > > controlling

> > > > seizures. This works by  calming the overfiring neurons, a

> > > condition that can lead to

> > > > their  destruction...physical brain damage. If, then, one has

> these

> > > > overfiring  neurons in their brain, the choice is to calm them

> or

> > > lose them..the body 

> > > > does not tolerate these overactive processes. For some, the

> amino

> > > acid , 

> > > > GABA, will provide the calming, protective function. If that is

> > > not  adequate, the

> > > > best alternative, in my opionion, is klonopin. My wife and I 

> have

> > > used

> > > > klonopin in1-2 mg daily doses for more than ten years with 

> nothing

> > > but benefit.

> > > > Benzodiazepines have received a bad rap due to abuse  and

> > > inappropriate

> > > > application. Granted, it is easier to start klonopin  than to DC

> > > it. But, there are no

> > > > perfect meds that only do one thing  exactly as we want them to

> > > work.  Benzos

> > > > can be DC'd without  consequence if done very slowly, preferably

> > > with the

> > > > liquified version. I  would suggest the adding GABA 500-1000 ng

> > > would facilitate

> > > > withdrawal. One  more point on the general subject of

> > > benzodiazapines. I

> > > > worked 50 years  with psychiatric medications, from the

> invention

> > > of thoraxine to

> > > > the  miracle antipsychotic, zyprexa. Of them all, benzodazepines

> > > were the least

> > > >  problematic, most undervalued, and most maligned.  Mel     PS:

> > > Klonopin is

> > > > best taken at nite as it DOES facilitate sleep...but so  does

> GABA 

> > > PPS: The

> > > > FDA is NOT your friend.

> > > > ----- Original  Message -----

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > > mjh

> > > > " The  Basil  Book "

> > > > http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

> each other, not to give medical advice.  If you are interested in any

> treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Katrina,

I don't know much about that sort of profound dystonia - but I get it in milder

form. I don't know where you are but here in the UK there is a daytime

programme called 'City Hospital'.

Last week they had a girl with severe dystonia, and the symptom you describe,

whose movements were normalized to a large extent by botox.

Rosie

Katrina,

I have episodes of a sudden twisting of my torso, I can be laying in

bed and then suddenly a force partially sit up me up and twists my

torso, they are extremely powerful - it's like a huge spasm. By any

chance does this sound like Dystonia? There are other parts of my body

do this.

Thanks Katrina,

L

On Apr 9, 2006, at 2:39 AM, kattemayo wrote:

> Klonopin is also the drug of choice for many who have Essential

> Tremor and Dystonia, which I have. Dystonia is opposing muscles

> contracting...very painful and causing postural twisting.

>

> I had an MRS brain scan with Dr. Cheney a year ago, and it showed

> Several lactate peaks

> in my brain. That , in higher peaks is seen in Mitochondrial disease.

> My report says results indicate discrete {brain} injury.

>

> Mine are near the thymus (he said could connect to the sensory

> overload, the basal ganglia (could connect to the movement disorders).

> Also cerebral spinal fluid, and I forgot what else.

>

> Just a bunch of scattered notes I thought of.

>

> Katrina

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Mel and all

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I am sitting here with an unfilled script for Klonopin from a

> doc

> > > I respect.

> > > > However, I would not touch that stuff with a ten foot pole.

> > > >

> > > > My late (adopted) son had significant seizure disorder

> including

> > > episodes of

> > > > status epilepticus and we learned over the years to supplement

> his

> > > brain to

> > > > calm the seizure activity, decrease significantly those

> drugs.....

> > > which were

> > > > part of the problem.

> > > >

> > > > When using GABA, inositol is a cofactor. I've had good benefit

> > > with this

> > > > combo for sleep, brain calming, etc.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > THere truly is more than one way to skin a rabbit......

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > mjh

> > > >

> > > > Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:50:58 -0500

> > > > From: Mel Baldwin <alphabear@>

> > > > Subject: Re: Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

> > > >

> > > > Marcia, Klonopin , like valium, librium, etc., is a

> > > benzodiazepine, a class

> > > > of psychotropic drugs that work on the gaba receptors in the

> > > brain, producing

> > > > a calming effect. Klonopin and librium are used often in

> > > controlling

> > > > seizures. This works by calming the overfiring neurons, a

> > > condition that can lead to

> > > > their destruction...physical brain damage. If, then, one has

> these

> > > > overfiring neurons in their brain, the choice is to calm them

> or

> > > lose them..the body

> > > > does not tolerate these overactive processes. For some, the

> amino

> > > acid ,

> > > > GABA, will provide the calming, protective function. If that is

> > > not adequate, the

> > > > best alternative, in my opionion, is klonopin. My wife and I

> have

> > > used

> > > > klonopin in1-2 mg daily doses for more than ten years with

> nothing

> > > but benefit.

> > > > Benzodiazepines have received a bad rap due to abuse and

> > > inappropriate

> > > > application. Granted, it is easier to start klonopin than to DC

> > > it. But, there are no

> > > > perfect meds that only do one thing exactly as we want them to

> > > work. Benzos

> > > > can be DC'd without consequence if done very slowly, preferably

> > > with the

> > > > liquified version. I would suggest the adding GABA 500-1000 ng

> > > would facilitate

> > > > withdrawal. One more point on the general subject of

> > > benzodiazapines. I

> > > > worked 50 years with psychiatric medications, from the

> invention

> > > of thoraxine to

> > > > the miracle antipsychotic, zyprexa. Of them all, benzodazepines

> > > were the least

> > > > problematic, most undervalued, and most maligned. Mel PS:

> > > Klonopin is

> > > > best taken at nite as it DOES facilitate sleep...but so does

> GABA

> > > PPS: The

> > > > FDA is NOT your friend.

> > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > mjh

> > > > " The Basil Book "

> > > > http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

> each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

> treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When I first started getting really sick back in 2000 I would have

jerking episodes when I was laying down where by body would bolt

upright into a sitting position, or my legs would fly off the bed (2-

3 feet in to the air). I was physically very weak at the time and

had a low back injury and could never of moved my body like that on

purpose. Six years later I found out the cause was lyme disease

that had infected my central nervous system. I was seeing a

neurologist at the time, she was baffled by it and did tests to rule

out MS.

Kathyrn S.

> > > > >

> > > > > 

> > > > > 

> > > > > Mel and all

> > > > >

> > > > > 

> > > > >

> > > > > I am sitting here with an unfilled script for Klonopin

from a

> > doc

> > > > I  respect.

> > > > >  However, I would not touch that stuff with a ten foot 

pole.

> > > > > 

> > > > > My late (adopted) son had significant seizure disorder

> > including 

> > > > episodes of

> > > > > status epilepticus and we learned over the years to

supplement 

> > his

> > > > brain to

> > > > > calm the seizure activity, decrease significantly those 

> > drugs.....

> > > > which were

> > > > > part of the problem.

> > > > > 

> > > > > When using GABA, inositol is a cofactor.  I've had good

benefit 

> > > > with this

> > > > > combo for sleep, brain calming, etc.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > THere truly is more than one way to skin a rabbit......

> > > > >

> > > > > 

> > > > > mjh

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:50:58 -0500

> > > > > From: Mel Baldwin <alphabear@>

> > > > > Subject: Re:  Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

> > > > >

> > > > > Marcia, Klonopin , like  valium, librium, etc., is a

> > > > benzodiazepine, a class

> > > > > of psychotropic drugs  that work on the gaba receptors

in the

> > > > brain, producing

> > > > > a calming effect.  Klonopin and librium are used often in

> > > > controlling

> > > > > seizures. This works by  calming the overfiring neurons,

a

> > > > condition that can lead to

> > > > > their  destruction...physical brain damage. If, then,

one has

> > these

> > > > > overfiring  neurons in their brain, the choice is to

calm them

> > or

> > > > lose them..the body 

> > > > > does not tolerate these overactive processes. For some,

the

> > amino

> > > > acid , 

> > > > > GABA, will provide the calming, protective function. If

that is

> > > > not  adequate, the

> > > > > best alternative, in my opionion, is klonopin. My wife

and I 

> > have

> > > > used

> > > > > klonopin in1-2 mg daily doses for more than ten years

with 

> > nothing

> > > > but benefit.

> > > > > Benzodiazepines have received a bad rap due to abuse  and

> > > > inappropriate

> > > > > application. Granted, it is easier to start klonopin 

than to DC

> > > > it. But, there are no

> > > > > perfect meds that only do one thing  exactly as we want

them to

> > > > work.  Benzos

> > > > > can be DC'd without  consequence if done very slowly,

preferably

> > > > with the

> > > > > liquified version. I  would suggest the adding GABA 500-

1000 ng

> > > > would facilitate

> > > > > withdrawal. One  more point on the general subject of

> > > > benzodiazapines. I

> > > > > worked 50 years  with psychiatric medications, from the

> > invention

> > > > of thoraxine to

> > > > > the  miracle antipsychotic, zyprexa. Of them all,

benzodazepines

> > > > were the least

> > > > >  problematic, most undervalued, and most maligned. 

Mel     PS:

> > > > Klonopin is

> > > > > best taken at nite as it DOES facilitate sleep...but so 

does

> > GABA 

> > > > PPS: The

> > > > > FDA is NOT your friend.

> > > > > ----- Original  Message -----

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 

> > > > > mjh

> > > > > " The  Basil  Book "

> > > > > http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with

> > each other, not to give medical advice.  If you are interested

in any

> > treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Jill, can you recap the recent discussion regarding glutamate and role (?) of

glutamine... or tell me how to access the archives...which I've never done. Thx,

Mel

Re: Questioning Cheney for Treating Anxiety?

Magnesium, and benzo's, are necessary for some with this chronic

infection. It's better to dampen the effects of glutamate, which is

upregulated and neurotoxic, in lyme and friends. Magnesium reversibly

inhibits calcium/glutamate, benzos tilt you back toward gaba and away

from glutamate. Excess glutamate and lack of sleep are worse imo.

>

> Perhaps Cheney, who I do NOT know, was risking something trying to

be kind.

> I suspect he would be delighted not to have to have a copy of each

of his

> benzo scripts reviewed by the local DEA.

>

> Dr. Schaller

>

> Hi Dr SChaller,

>

> I've never been a patient of Cheneys myself (he's the CFS expert

that began in incline Village with when CFS got the label).

I've read a lot of his work. He beleives the cfs brain on a straight

line with 'normal' in the middle and coma on one side and seizure on

the other, is shifted toward the seizure side as part of the

condition. He beleives the Klonopin to be neuroprotective in

protecting the brain from this shift toward the seizure side. Most

people take it to help with their sleep. I did try a low dose years

ago and was pretty unimpressed with what it did/didn't do for me and

was unwilling to risk the addiction part I've read others dealing

with. Anyway, thats his thinking, that its actually 'protective' of

the brain.

>

> Marcia

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