Re: Off topic: Silk Duvet Covers/wabi-sabi

[Guest guest]

hi vickie, mjh and netsukeme -

>> mjh, most of us with CFS/ME cannot afford beautiful, expensive

> things.

>> Often, my house " looks " like a Salvation Army store. Nevertheless,

> I

>> think it is sometimes possible to find beauty for a low cost. Also,

> it

>> is possible to " see " beauty in unexpected things.

personally, I decorate my house with yarn of all colors and textures. (so I

get colored and textured dust bunnies). I was trained as a textile

designer and knitting is one thing I can still do laying flat on my back!

(most of the time)

As to seeing beauty in the unexpected, are any of you familiar with the

wonderful Japanese concept of " wabi-sabi " ? it is the beauty of things

imperfect, impermanent and incomplete. Kinda gives you a different way to

look at that messy house and inexpensive decorating.

Judith G

[Guest guest]

Interesting, Judith G! I miss my petit-petitpoint and knitting and

crochet and I try to remember that, flat on my back, I can still

carve (google " netsuke " )...if only the bits of sawdust would stay off

my face and out of my mouth! (And I have an entire closet full of

untouched yarns and fibers, all bagged up and filling the shelves and

stacked on the floor.... sigh.)

Do you perhaps have a website to refer to for this wabi-sabi thing?

It sounds really interesting. And uplifting. " Verification " and all

that. Trophies of a forced way of life. What a shame it is that

some people can't understand the inability to get some assumed and

ordinary things accomplished in a day (or month or year or ten).

>

> hi vickie, mjh and netsukeme -

>

> >> mjh, most of us with CFS/ME cannot afford beautiful, expensive

> > things.

> >> Often, my house " looks " like a Salvation Army store.

Nevertheless,

> > I

> >> think it is sometimes possible to find beauty for a low cost.

Also,

> > it

> >> is possible to " see " beauty in unexpected things.

>

>

> personally, I decorate my house with yarn of all colors and

textures. (so I

> get colored and textured dust bunnies). I was trained as a

textile

> designer and knitting is one thing I can still do laying flat on my

back!

> (most of the time)

>

> As to seeing beauty in the unexpected, are any of you familiar with

the

> wonderful Japanese concept of " wabi-sabi " ? it is the beauty of

things

> imperfect, impermanent and incomplete. Kinda gives you a different

way to

> look at that messy house and inexpensive decorating.

>

> Judith G

>

[Guest guest]

This is an interesting discussion. I can't remember if I mentioned

that I am now making the small bedroom mostly white and/or cream

colored. I have a white cotton comforter cover that reminds me of

European hotels...I got it at a store that is going out of business in

the neighborhood so it was pretty cheap. I bought these 3 white shams,

about $12 each, online at touchofeurope.net, they are actual antiques

from Germany, some have lace borders or monograms, however I do have

to buy the filler pillows, but I'm going broke from all this so I am

not buying the wonderful wool-filled ones as they are so expensive.

These European shams are 30 by 30 inches so I called the owner of

touchofeurope today and its a mom and pop business so she told me

where to go online at thecompanystore, and they have primafill (fake

hypoallergenic--after I read that down harbors aspergillus and dust

mites I was too grossed out to ever have down again). In NY we have a

great craigslist bulletin board and since NY has so many people and so

many high-end transients, you can easily get nice used stuff. I see

someone posted a pottery barn mirror with 3 hooks for $25...I emailed

them tonight asking if I could pick it up tomorrow (its in the

neighborhood). In my mind I also envision a row of bromeliads by the

windows. Its a different feeling than the large bedroom, as that has 2

window exposures and feels open. The smaller bedroom has more of an

enclosed feeling. But in any case, being on a white bed with big white

cushy pillows, is still soothing enough tho I still feel like some

mean gremlin demons came and took away my perfect bedroom.

Keeping the cost down, but making this other bedroom beautiful in a

different and simple way is an interesting exercise. Mourning the big

room, but figuring eventually I will be able to remediate it, but

wondering how I fix the furniture in that room. I *am* worried. I

think he used an outdoor silicone and I suspect the solvents in it are

meant not to really outgas that much as someof them probably keep the

silicone durable but flexible. I therefore am not sure if 6 months is

optimistic. But I do know that if you react to something you need to

stay away from it. Low level constant exposure can really degrade your

immune system further.

So in the interests of white, purity (I'm sure its symbolic) and the

hope of making the best of a bad situation or as the buddhist say,

turn poison into medicine, I am off to bed.

> >

> > hi vickie, mjh and netsukeme -

> >

> > >> mjh, most of us with CFS/ME cannot afford beautiful, expensive

> > > things.

> > >> Often, my house " looks " like a Salvation Army store.

> Nevertheless,

> > > I

> > >> think it is sometimes possible to find beauty for a low cost.

> Also,

> > > it

> > >> is possible to " see " beauty in unexpected things.

> >

> >

> > personally, I decorate my house with yarn of all colors and

> textures. (so I

> > get colored and textured dust bunnies). I was trained as a

> textile

> > designer and knitting is one thing I can still do laying flat on my

> back!

> > (most of the time)

> >

> > As to seeing beauty in the unexpected, are any of you familiar with

> the

> > wonderful Japanese concept of " wabi-sabi " ? it is the beauty of

> things

> > imperfect, impermanent and incomplete. Kinda gives you a different

> way to

> > look at that messy house and inexpensive decorating.

> >

> > Judith G

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jill, can you ask them to come remove that silicone (scrape it off

and replace it with nontoxic caulk)? www.aehf.com sells nontoxic caulk

At least it might shorten the time you have to stay out of that room.

It sounds like you are making your small bedroom cozy and

comfortable. Pleasant dreams.

Vickie

> > >

> > > hi vickie, mjh and netsukeme -

> > >

> > > >> mjh, most of us with CFS/ME cannot afford beautiful,

expensive

> > > > things.

> > > >> Often, my house " looks " like a Salvation Army store.

> > Nevertheless,

> > > > I

> > > >> think it is sometimes possible to find beauty for a low

cost.

> > Also,

> > > > it

> > > >> is possible to " see " beauty in unexpected things.

> > >

> > >

> > > personally, I decorate my house with yarn of all colors and

> > textures. (so I

> > > get colored and textured dust bunnies). I was trained as a

> > textile

> > > designer and knitting is one thing I can still do laying flat

on my

> > back!

> > > (most of the time)

> > >

> > > As to seeing beauty in the unexpected, are any of you familiar

with

> > the

> > > wonderful Japanese concept of " wabi-sabi " ? it is the beauty of

> > things

> > > imperfect, impermanent and incomplete. Kinda gives you a

different

> > way to

> > > look at that messy house and inexpensive decorating.

> > >

> > > Judith G

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Vickie, I did have them remove it. After 3 weeks I realized it was

never going to cure (windows open the whole time, since Jan 3 when it

was done, although today its so cold and windy I just left the window

open a crack). The source was removed unless, as one expert said, he

dropped a bit somewhere and I can't see it (it's clear after all). Yet

just now when I went int he room I could smell it. I think the 20

year old cherry bureau with scalloped mirror absorbed it. Certain

woods with polish and maybe some dust on them absorbed it? I don't

know. All I can say is I still smell it. So all I can say is this is a

very unusual product, maybe it was too old. Apparently after a year

the molecule that makes it cure may not be in it anymore and it won't

cure on its own? I don't know. I've never had such an experience with

a solvent based product. The oil based polyurethane that was used on

my doorjamb last spring, also made me dizzy, in a very similar way,

but after a few days and the windows open, it was fine. And, once the

building, in repainting my place, used their own crappy oil based high

voc paint in the small bedroom actually, it stank to high heaven! It

was unbelievable. Nobody could believe it, well, it was just paint

gone bad. And that took a few weeks to outgas and be okay (that was

when I switched forever and ever to bioshield paints, which for

anybody with any kind of chronic illness, are terrific. They smell

GREAT and I actually enjoy using them. There isnothing toxic in them

at all).

I am willing to get rid of the old bureau, as pretty as it is, at some

point if I have to, but there are some other pieces of furniture in

the room I am highly attached to and are unique. One of them is a

beautiful shiny armoire with inlaid patterns. But actually that did

not seem to absorb it as much.

> > > >

> > > > hi vickie, mjh and netsukeme -

> > > >

> > > > >> mjh, most of us with CFS/ME cannot afford beautiful,

> expensive

> > > > > things.

> > > > >> Often, my house " looks " like a Salvation Army store.

> > > Nevertheless,

> > > > > I

> > > > >> think it is sometimes possible to find beauty for a low

> cost.

> > > Also,

> > > > > it

> > > > >> is possible to " see " beauty in unexpected things.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > personally, I decorate my house with yarn of all colors and

> > > textures. (so I

> > > > get colored and textured dust bunnies). I was trained as a

> > > textile

> > > > designer and knitting is one thing I can still do laying flat

> on my

> > > back!

> > > > (most of the time)

> > > >

> > > > As to seeing beauty in the unexpected, are any of you familiar

> with

> > > the

> > > > wonderful Japanese concept of " wabi-sabi " ? it is the beauty of

> > > things

> > > > imperfect, impermanent and incomplete. Kinda gives you a

> different

> > > way to

> > > > look at that messy house and inexpensive decorating.

> > > >

> > > > Judith G

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Gee thats a good thought but the polyfill works fine for me since it

has cotton covers, and that means I can wash it. You can't wash the

wool which is why I had to throw out those pillows. I wasn't sure if

they had solvent in them.

>

>

> Jill

>

> My friend Roxanne just sent me some wool roving. I wonder if this

is what

> those wool pillows are filled with. Contact a group that does hand

spinning

> and weaving, maybe you can get enough to make your own pillows.

>

> mjh

>

> In a message dated 2/25/06 11:41:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> jenbooks13@... writes:

>

> however I do have

> to buy the filler pillows, but I'm going broke from all this so I am

> not buying the wonderful wool-filled ones as they are so expensive.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jill, forgive me here, because I know little about what I want to

talk about!

I keep thinking of the first big oil spill that happened in the ocean

near Alaska. I can't remember when it was..twenty years ago or

so?...but do you remember this?

And I remember after that, when there were other oil spills, hearing

that some kind of " microbes " were brought in and used to gobble up

the oil slicks on the water. " Oil-gobbling microbes, " I

thought...what an incredible thing -- a living something that

actually eats a petroleum product!

Well, you can see where I'm going with this, can't you? Is there

perhaps some product that could be used like this to irradicate your

silicone mess?

Just ruminating here...

>

> Vickie, I did have them remove it. After 3 weeks I realized it was

> never going to cure (windows open the whole time, since Jan 3 when

it

> was done, although today its so cold and windy I just left the

window

> open a crack). The source was removed unless, as one expert said, he

> dropped a bit somewhere and I can't see it (it's clear after all).

Yet

> just now when I went int he room I could smell it. I think the 20

> year old cherry bureau with scalloped mirror absorbed it. Certain

> woods with polish and maybe some dust on them absorbed it? I don't

> know. All I can say is I still smell it. So all I can say is this

is a

> very unusual product, maybe it was too old. Apparently after a year

> the molecule that makes it cure may not be in it anymore and it

won't

> cure on its own? I don't know. I've never had such an experience

with

> a solvent based product. The oil based polyurethane that was used on

> my doorjamb last spring, also made me dizzy, in a very similar way,

> but after a few days and the windows open, it was fine. And, once

the

> building, in repainting my place, used their own crappy oil based

high

> voc paint in the small bedroom actually, it stank to high heaven! It

> was unbelievable. Nobody could believe it, well, it was just paint

> gone bad. And that took a few weeks to outgas and be okay (that was

> when I switched forever and ever to bioshield paints, which for

> anybody with any kind of chronic illness, are terrific. They smell

> GREAT and I actually enjoy using them. There isnothing toxic in them

> at all).

>

> I am willing to get rid of the old bureau, as pretty as it is, at

some

> point if I have to, but there are some other pieces of furniture in

> the room I am highly attached to and are unique. One of them is a

> beautiful shiny armoire with inlaid patterns. But actually that did

> not seem to absorb it as much.

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Vickie, I did have them remove it. After 3 weeks I realized it was

> > never going to cure (windows open the whole time, since Jan 3 when

> it

> > was done, although today its so cold and windy I just left the

> window

> > open a crack). The source was removed unless, as one expert said, he

> > dropped a bit somewhere and I can't see it (it's clear after all).

> Yet

> > just now when I went int he room I could smell it. I think the 20

> > year old cherry bureau with scalloped mirror absorbed it. Certain

> > woods with polish and maybe some dust on them absorbed it? I don't

> > know. All I can say is I still smell it. So all I can say is this

> is a

> > very unusual product, maybe it was too old. Apparently after a year

> > the molecule that makes it cure may not be in it anymore and it

> won't

> > cure on its own? I don't know. I've never had such an experience

> with

> > a solvent based product. The oil based polyurethane that was used on

> > my doorjamb last spring, also made me dizzy, in a very similar way,

> > but after a few days and the windows open, it was fine. And, once

> the

> > building, in repainting my place, used their own crappy oil based

> high

> > voc paint in the small bedroom actually, it stank to high heaven! It

> > was unbelievable. Nobody could believe it, well, it was just paint

> > gone bad. And that took a few weeks to outgas and be okay (that was

> > when I switched forever and ever to bioshield paints, which for

> > anybody with any kind of chronic illness, are terrific. They smell

> > GREAT and I actually enjoy using them. There isnothing toxic in them

> > at all).

> >

> > I am willing to get rid of the old bureau, as pretty as it is, at

> some

> > point if I have to, but there are some other pieces of furniture in

> > the room I am highly attached to and are unique. One of them is a

> > beautiful shiny armoire with inlaid patterns. But actually that did

> > not seem to absorb it as much.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jill, if that's a metal filing cabinet, I would imagine that what

absorbed the stench is the contents of the file cabinet, not the file

cabinet itself. The file cabinet can be washed off. You baggied up

your precious now " poisoned " files! What a mess and what a shame.

You mentioning manufacturers not listing all their product

ingredients reminds me of reading stories about how the grand and

glorious military industrial complex is wanting to dump depleted

uranium (DU) waste onto manufacturers of everyday products for

consumers--for example, cooking and eating utensils! The military

doesn't know what to do with a byproduct that no one wants and no one

wants to store, and manufacturers are always looking for a way to

enhance their bottom line, profit.

The world's gone mad, I tell you. We shall all be eating with our

fingers and sterilized chopsticks.

> Thanx. I'm still in shock, you know...I went to remove a metal

filing

> cabinet from that room, and I saw one sweater had fallen behind it,

> and I lifted it to my nose...and it smelled of the solvent. I'm not

> kidding. Now, that sweater was behind a cotton curtain and behind a

> filing cabinet in a little huddle on the floor in the back of the

> closet. And it smelled of the solvent in a room that has been airing

> out for 2 months and in which the main source of the caulk was

removed

> 5 weeks ago. Can you believe it? I Fear everything in the room may

be

> ruined. I don't wnat to be castastrophic but I've never been around

a

> material like that. And I do get brain foggy when I'm around it even

> in small amounts. I threw the sweater out and decided to throw out

the

> filing cabinet too as most of it is stuff I can put into plastic

boxes

> as its from the past.

>

> Doesn't this seem strange to you guys? Maybe its not strange but how

> could stuff penetrate so thoroughly into everything like that and

just

> remain there?

>

> Oh well I just don't know this is one that stumps me even with my

> research abilities. And as Sue noted, with revlon products, well

with

> this product there is no way to find out from the company what is

> actually in it, they do not legally have to disclose it. So you

can't

> figure out really, how to remediate.

>

[Guest guest]

Its true that was a metal filing cabinet, I just don't really need it.

And most of the stuff in it needed to be put away anyway, it was old

stuff for taxes.

It was the sweater that still had the stench. So that solvent just got

into every nook and cranny, including the corner of the closet behind

the filing cabinet.

I just read that chemical companies are being sued now for

manipulating and hiding data that working with chromium (airborne?)

increased the risk of lung cancer...its on google news.

Still, I must say, that it was the carpenter who was mainly at fault.

This product is mostly for weatherproofing, is meant for tile and

metal, not masonry (walls), AND it has clear instructions to ventilate

well while using it. None of which he did. If he made sure all the

windows were open, that would have helped a lot in the initial outgassing.

Its just that, I don't know how to get it out of stuff. I have a

feeling its not coming out on its own. If it did, the sweater wouldn't

smell 8 weeks later. I'm beginning to think all the walls and all the

furniture needs to be washed down because probably dust absorbs it.

> You mentioning manufacturers not listing all their product

> ingredients reminds me of reading stories about how the grand and

> glorious military industrial complex is wanting to dump depleted

> uranium (DU) waste onto manufacturers of everyday products for

> consumers--for example, cooking and eating utensils! The military

> doesn't know what to do with a byproduct that no one wants and no one

> wants to store, and manufacturers are always looking for a way to

> enhance their bottom line, profit.

>

> The world's gone mad, I tell you. We shall all be eating with our

> fingers and sterilized chopsticks.

>

>

>

>

> > Thanx. I'm still in shock, you know...I went to remove a metal

> filing

> > cabinet from that room, and I saw one sweater had fallen behind it,

> > and I lifted it to my nose...and it smelled of the solvent. I'm not

> > kidding. Now, that sweater was behind a cotton curtain and behind a

> > filing cabinet in a little huddle on the floor in the back of the

> > closet. And it smelled of the solvent in a room that has been airing

> > out for 2 months and in which the main source of the caulk was

> removed

> > 5 weeks ago. Can you believe it? I Fear everything in the room may

> be

> > ruined. I don't wnat to be castastrophic but I've never been around

> a

> > material like that. And I do get brain foggy when I'm around it even

> > in small amounts. I threw the sweater out and decided to throw out

> the

> > filing cabinet too as most of it is stuff I can put into plastic

> boxes

> > as its from the past.

> >

> > Doesn't this seem strange to you guys? Maybe its not strange but how

> > could stuff penetrate so thoroughly into everything like that and

> just

> > remain there?

> >

> > Oh well I just don't know this is one that stumps me even with my

> > research abilities. And as Sue noted, with revlon products, well

> with

> > this product there is no way to find out from the company what is

> > actually in it, they do not legally have to disclose it. So you

> can't

> > figure out really, how to remediate.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Papers from the file cabinet are going to absorb something like that

just as the sweater did, unfortunately. Lucky you can just package

up that stuff and put it somewhere else. I'd be concerned about the

walls. If they're plaster, they're going to be absorbent too. I

hope you don't have to have that carpenter back to tear out the

plaster and redo the whole room, Jill. I don't know what kind of

agreement you had with him -- or if he's insured? -- but I'd be

finding out how to force him to rectify what he screwed up. It's not

your fault that he used dangerous or faulty materials. It's his.

>

> Its true that was a metal filing cabinet, I just don't really need

it.

> And most of the stuff in it needed to be put away anyway, it was old

> stuff for taxes.

>

> It was the sweater that still had the stench. So that solvent just

got

> into every nook and cranny, including the corner of the closet

behind

> the filing cabinet.

>

> I just read that chemical companies are being sued now for

> manipulating and hiding data that working with chromium (airborne?)

> increased the risk of lung cancer...its on google news.

>

> Still, I must say, that it was the carpenter who was mainly at

fault.

> This product is mostly for weatherproofing, is meant for tile and

> metal, not masonry (walls), AND it has clear instructions to

ventilate

> well while using it. None of which he did. If he made sure all the

> windows were open, that would have helped a lot in the initial

outgassing.

>

> Its just that, I don't know how to get it out of stuff. I have a

> feeling its not coming out on its own. If it did, the sweater

wouldn't

> smell 8 weeks later. I'm beginning to think all the walls and all

the

> furniture needs to be washed down because probably dust absorbs it.

[Guest guest]

Yes but, it seems to me, that could be dangerous. It will offgass into

where? In order to heat the room up in the winter you have to have the

windows closed. So then...

I think its just tincture of time for now. Thanx tho.

>

> Jill,

>

> Have you tried heating the room up with a space heater (with the door

> closed) and then venting, and then repeating over and over? It

should hasten

> the outgassing. Do a little every day. Eventually it should go away,

> although how long it will be is anyone's guess. I've had to go to great

> lengths to get some stuff to a level I could tolerate, but

eventually it got

> there.

>

> Ellen

>

[Guest guest]

Well the papers were inside the metal filing cabinet so it was much

less likely to permeate into the cabinet, than on the floor beside the

cabinet.

I agree, the walls may have absorbed it though I think more likely

some of the furniture did.

He did it as a side job for me, for cash, and is not chemically

sensitive. It says indoor/outdoor use, so using it somewhat

inappropriately (the surface) is not a crime, and not ventilating,

theoretically would not trouble someone for 2 months. I could never

sue him. Nobody could have predicted this.

> >

> > Its true that was a metal filing cabinet, I just don't really need

> it.

> > And most of the stuff in it needed to be put away anyway, it was old

> > stuff for taxes.

> >

> > It was the sweater that still had the stench. So that solvent just

> got

> > into every nook and cranny, including the corner of the closet

> behind

> > the filing cabinet.

> >

> > I just read that chemical companies are being sued now for

> > manipulating and hiding data that working with chromium (airborne?)

> > increased the risk of lung cancer...its on google news.

> >

> > Still, I must say, that it was the carpenter who was mainly at

> fault.

> > This product is mostly for weatherproofing, is meant for tile and

> > metal, not masonry (walls), AND it has clear instructions to

> ventilate

> > well while using it. None of which he did. If he made sure all the

> > windows were open, that would have helped a lot in the initial

> outgassing.

> >

> > Its just that, I don't know how to get it out of stuff. I have a

> > feeling its not coming out on its own. If it did, the sweater

> wouldn't

> > smell 8 weeks later. I'm beginning to think all the walls and all

> the

> > furniture needs to be washed down because probably dust absorbs it.

>