Re: Broccoli craving/sulfa drugs/MSM

February 5, 2006

Hiya and Maxine

As recent ago as 2002, I had significant adverse reactions to sulfa

containing drugs like dental anaesthetics and bactrim, and sulfites as well.

However, I have never had a problem with sulfur containing nutrients including

SAM-e, l-Taurine, broccoli, garlic, onions, MSM, etc.

In a message dated 2/5/2006 6:28:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,

weldmanm@... writes:

In a message dated 2/5/06 6:11:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

kcapel@... writes:

What struck me most about my own broccoli craving was that I am

allergic to sulfa drugs -- or at least, I was when I was a young

child. (Do these things change over time?) >>

Hi ,

It will be interesting to see Rich's answer here. I am also curious as to

whether my CFIDS might be the reason that I had such a violent reaction to

MSM

when I tried to take it a couple of years ago.

Take care,

Maxine

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

February 5, 2006

In a message dated 2/5/2006 6:42:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kcapel@... writes:

Yes, let's see what Rich says. He must be off, watching

football...or perhaps tending those new brassica seedlings for spring

planting on his farm...

Wonder what kind of compost he uses....... curious minds want to know. 'fess

up Rich.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

February 5, 2006

as I recall it was Lidocaine or something like that. It put me in a near

seizure state for several days.

In a message dated 2/5/2006 7:00:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kcapel@... writes:

mjh, what dental anesthetics contain sulfa?

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

February 5, 2006

In a message dated 2/5/2006 7:17:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

richvank@... writes:

Hi, and Maxine.

, you must be another intuitive, because yesterday I was in

fact out digging up shrubs to recycle them. However, they didn't

look good enough to eat!

Rich

that's because you did not simmer them in 's chicken soup!!!

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

February 5, 2006

In a message dated 2/5/2006 7:20:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,

richvank@... writes:

Hi, mjh.

It might be a matter of how much is being pushed through the sulfite

oxidase step at once. I don't think that would explain why you could

handle MSM, though, unless you weren't taking big gobs of it at once.

Rich

I had four significant reactions in less than three weeks. Two to drugs and

two to other things. It was scary for me as I was sole caregiver for a very

sick kid.

I think at that time I was taking about 9 grams of MSM a day with no problem.

Go figure.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

February 5, 2006

I could hardly stand, disoriented and had these rolling sensations

throughout my lower body that my family physician identified as a pre-seizure

state a

couple of days into this reaction.

Needless to say, I took some Lobelia inflata tincture off an on, very small

amounts, along with more Mg.

I have extreme pain reactions and have learned to increase my trace

elements, Mg/B6 when I anticipate being put into an extreme pain causing

situation.

It helps me.

Hypersensitive to all kinds of stuff since kidhood.

mjh

In a message dated 2/5/2006 8:08:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kcapel@... writes:

Pardon my stupidity, mjh, please. What do you mean by " near seizure

state for several days " ? Do you mean " hyper " or " sped up " or

something akin to that?

I'm wondering how all this relates to me needing extra shots when I

go to the dentist. My body doesn't seem to acknowledge them, or soon

enough, or something like that. I always need an extra shot or two

to lose the extreme pain sensation with dental work. I had always

associated this with my low threshold for pain, but I guess that

really isn't the same thing at all...? Or is it? Now I'm confused

again.

Was it here, on this board, where someone was discussing the " caine "

drugs and how they work in the body?

I'm afraid I'm having a good dose of that Scrambled Brain Syndrome

today, mjh.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

February 5, 2006

In a message dated 2/5/2006 8:11:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kcapel@... writes:

She's been busy

gearing up for the NSA hearings this week, so we can " uproot another

shrub " !

THere are several shrubs that need significant pruning and then a reshaping

as they grow out. They also need adequate, appropriate nutrition so their

growth and expression is balanced.....

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

February 5, 2006

In a message dated 2/5/2006 8:26:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,

richvank@... writes:

Hi, mjh.

You got me there, alright. I didn't do that. They were boxwood.

Have you ever tried a soup made from them?

Rich

Not on my current menu as boxwood is not reliably winterhardy in

Michigan...... but, you could carve (prune) one into a turkey!

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

February 5, 2006

In a message dated 2/5/2006 9:02:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,

richvank@... writes:

Hi, mjh.

After a quick look at the PDR for Herbal Medicines, I think I'll go

very lightly on pruning boxwood into my turkey. Here's what it says:

" The intake of toxic dosages of the drug leads to vomiting,

diarrhea, severe clonic spasms, eventually to signs of paralysis,

and ultimately to fatal asphyxiation. "

Rich

Yup, you are right about boxwood's toxicity.

I was suggesting you turn that shrub into a topiary of a turkey..... garden

art and whimsy.... rather than a gastronomic misadventure.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

February 5, 2006

Dear Rich

Turkey = l=Tryptophan = sweet dreams!

mjh

In a message dated 2/5/2006 9:29:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

richvank@... writes:

Hi, mjh.

I guess when you mentioned " turkey " I started salivating and

thinking " food! " Maybe I should take a break and eat something.

I didn't really think you wanted to poison me!

Rich

> Rich

>

> Yup, you are right about boxwood's toxicity.

>

> I was suggesting you turn that shrub into a topiary of a

turkey..... garden

> art and whimsy.... rather than a gastronomic misadventure.

>

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

February 5, 2006

Hmmm. Now isn't that interesting. I have no reaction to MSM at

all. I was beginning to think it might be helping me, in fact.

Yes, let's see what Rich says. He must be off, watching

football...or perhaps tending those new brassica seedlings for spring

planting on his farm...

>

> In a message dated 2/5/06 6:11:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> kcapel@... writes:

>

> What struck me most about my own broccoli craving was that I am

> allergic to sulfa drugs -- or at least, I was when I was a young

> child. (Do these things change over time?) >>

>

> Hi ,

>

> It will be interesting to see Rich's answer here. I am also

curious as to

> whether my CFIDS might be the reason that I had such a violent

reaction to MSM

> when I tried to take it a couple of years ago.

>

> Take care,

>

> Maxine

>

February 5, 2006

mjh, what dental anesthetics contain sulfa?

>

> Hiya and Maxine

>

> As recent ago as 2002, I had significant adverse reactions to

sulfa

> containing drugs like dental anaesthetics and bactrim, and sulfites

as well.

> However, I have never had a problem with sulfur containing

nutrients including

> SAM-e, l-Taurine, broccoli, garlic, onions, MSM, etc.

>

February 5, 2006

Hi, and Maxine.

, you must be another intuitive, because yesterday I was in

fact out digging up shrubs to recycle them. However, they didn't

look good enough to eat!

Perhaps your sensitivity to sulfur-containing foods, supplements,

and drugs has changed over time. I think that these sensitivities

are due to a bottleneck at sulfite oxidase. This can be a genetic

issue, or it can be due to molybdenum deficiency, or I think it

could also be due to a block higher up in the sulfur metabolism

(methylation cycle or transsulfuration pathway), which lowers the

cysteine level and hinders the formation of molydopterin from

molybdenum, or a combination of these factors. If yours was due to

a moly deficiency, perhaps you have fixed it by improving your moly

status since you were a child.

Maxine,

Yes, your violent reaction to MSM could very well be connected to

your CFS, because it now appears that CFS can result from a problem

in the sulfur metabolism, as discussed above. MSM has to be

metabolized through sulfite oxidase, and if there's a bottleneck

there, life can become very unpleasant. I think you might benefit

from the DAN! autism treatments.

Rich

> >

> > In a message dated 2/5/06 6:11:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> > kcapel@ writes:

> >

> > What struck me most about my own broccoli craving was that I am

> > allergic to sulfa drugs -- or at least, I was when I was a

young

> > child. (Do these things change over time?) >>

> >

> > Hi ,

> >

> > It will be interesting to see Rich's answer here. I am also

> curious as to

> > whether my CFIDS might be the reason that I had such a violent

> reaction to MSM

> > when I tried to take it a couple of years ago.

> >

> > Take care,

> >

> > Maxine

> >

>

February 5, 2006

Hi, mjh.

It might be a matter of how much is being pushed through the sulfite

oxidase step at once. I don't think that would explain why you could

handle MSM, though, unless you weren't taking big gobs of it at once.

Rich

>

> Hiya and Maxine

>

> As recent ago as 2002, I had significant adverse reactions to sulfa

> containing drugs like dental anaesthetics and bactrim, and sulfites

as well.

> However, I have never had a problem with sulfur containing

nutrients including

> SAM-e, l-Taurine, broccoli, garlic, onions, MSM, etc.

February 5, 2006