Re: Molds, mycotoxins ????

[Guest guest]

Gee, , you're already more educated about mycotoxins than

almost all doctors.

Yes, as bad as allergies are, there is a mycotoxin component that

allergists are unfamiliar with and unaware of.

So when people suspect mold as a driving force, they are tested for

allergies and any additional component of the complaints are taken

to be exaggerations- as the allergy testing doesn't address toxicity.

Stachy produces the most potent and ubiquitous of the supertoxins,

but of course, other " lesser " molds can produce sufficient toxicity

to accomplish the same thing - if present in sufficient quantity.

These toxins bind into receptors using a sort of " electron glue " of

attraction that keeps them from being metabolized. Dr Shoemaker

uses Cholestyramine, a bile binding salt to attract and transport

the limited amount of recirculating neurotoxins out of the body, but

it is a somewhat limited solution, since it appears that restoration

of the proper " ion gradient " is necessary to uncouple the toxins.

This might be the source for the effectiveness of the Blasi protocol.

While I desperately try to figure out this whole mess, I simply

developed an " extreme avoidance " lifestyle that has allowed me to

have a restoration of function and lifestyle that I could never have

had otherwise.

I've been engaged for years in telling my story as " Gee, doc, I'm

an original Incline Village survivor who found something that really

helped - enough to free myself from constant agony and return to

mountain climbing. Don't you think that is something worth looking

into? " And for all these years, up until Dr Shoemaker, virtually

all doctors and researchers said " Nope. Not interested " .

Aren't these doctors funny?

-

" H. Wish " wrote:

>

> Please forgive my confusion, but could someone familiar with the

> mold/mycotoxin issues please explain to me in simple terms some

> things I am confused about. I have been tested for allergies a

couple of times, each time guessing I would prove to be allergic to

molds (I get a pain in my eyes whenever it is 'cloudy/bright', which

I assume to be 'mold weather' although I live in Atlanta where we

probably have 90% humidity 90% of the time). Each time they said I

was allergic to various pollens, etc. but not mold. But are the

Mold Warrior and Bob Harrington and others who say mold is at the

root of most of their problems saying that it is not the mold as a

cellular organism but mycotoxins as chemicals produced and emitted

by the cell that are the problem? And this would not show up in

plain allergy tests? Is there truly no 'antitoxin' to these, no

recourse other than avoiding all mold? What about the different

species of mold? Wouldn't each produce its own chemical products?

What is it about them that allows one to generalize, or are there

specific molds (a mentioned Stachybotrytis as being ne of the

worst) that are the problem and what is -their- chemical they

produce if one is not allergic to the entire cell? Could it be that

there is not a one-size-fits-all remedy (like there is no single

antibiotic for bacteria) but that one could target the real

villains? Sorry if I sound naive about this. . .

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

You really should get " Mold Warriors " and read it. It will answer all your

questions. You are correct, an " allergy " doesn't make someone as sick as CFS.

The problem is that 24% of people have genetics which make it very difficult for

them to clear mold toxins (yes, they are chemicals, not living things.). Yes,

there is some way to fight it, cholestryamine grabs the toxins and lets your

body eliminate them.

I got basically completely well when I inadvertently removed myself from mold

exposure. Now when I am exposed to mold I get the old familiar CFS symptoms,

but then I take some cholestyramine and recover quickly.

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: H. Wish

Each time they said I was

allergic to various pollens, etc. but not mold. But are the Mold

Warrior and Bob Harrington and others who say mold is at the root of

most of their problems saying that it is not the mold as a cellular

organism but mycotoxins as chemicals produced and emitted by the cell

that are the problem? And this would not show up in plain allergy

tests?

Is there truly no 'antitoxin' to these, no recourse other than

avoiding all mold? What about the different species of mold? Wouldn't

each produce its own chemical products?

[Guest guest]

Doris,

are you still taking antibiotics too?

Marcia

Re: Molds, mycotoxins ????

Hi

You really should get " Mold Warriors " and read it. It will answer all your

questions. You are correct, an " allergy " doesn't make someone as sick as CFS.

The problem is that 24% of people have genetics which make it very difficult for

them to clear mold toxins (yes, they are chemicals, not living things.). Yes,

there is some way to fight it, cholestryamine grabs the toxins and lets your

body eliminate them.

I got basically completely well when I inadvertently removed myself from mold

exposure. Now when I am exposed to mold I get the old familiar CFS symptoms,

but then I take some cholestyramine and recover quickly.

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: H. Wish

Each time they said I was

allergic to various pollens, etc. but not mold. But are the Mold

Warrior and Bob Harrington and others who say mold is at the root of

most of their problems saying that it is not the mold as a cellular

organism but mycotoxins as chemicals produced and emitted by the cell

that are the problem? And this would not show up in plain allergy

tests?

Is there truly no 'antitoxin' to these, no recourse other than

avoiding all mold? What about the different species of mold? Wouldn't

each produce its own chemical products?

[Guest guest]

Doris - Even tho cholestryramine(is that abbreviated CSM?) grabs the toxins so

that the body can eliminate them, don't the toxins get released to some degree

in the body before the body has a chance to eliminate them?

And if CSM can contribute to constipation, could this possibly cause the toxins

to stay in the body longer (and threfore be reabsorbed by the body?)

Have you heard of any other treatment besides CSM (or antitoxin as put

it)? (does CSM also bind 'helpful' things in the body, like cholesterol ,which

we need to some extent to mfgr things like hormones, I think?) Do you know if it

affects bile? (I know I have bad reactions, and increase of symptoms, when

exposed to mold - which, being in the northeast, is about all the time!) Thanks

- Les

Re: Molds, mycotoxins ????

Hi

You really should get " Mold Warriors " and read it. It will answer all your

questions. You are correct, an " allergy " doesn't make someone as sick as CFS.

The problem is that 24% of people have genetics which make it very difficult for

them to clear mold toxins (yes, they are chemicals, not living things.). Yes,

there is some way to fight it, cholestryamine grabs the toxins and lets your

body eliminate them.

I got basically completely well when I inadvertently removed myself from mold

exposure. Now when I am exposed to mold I get the old familiar CFS symptoms,

but then I take some cholestyramine and recover quickly.

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: H. Wish

Each time they said I was

allergic to various pollens, etc. but not mold. But are the Mold

Warrior and Bob Harrington and others who say mold is at the root of

most of their problems saying that it is not the mold as a cellular

organism but mycotoxins as chemicals produced and emitted by the cell

that are the problem? And this would not show up in plain allergy

tests?

Is there truly no 'antitoxin' to these, no recourse other than

avoiding all mold? What about the different species of mold? Wouldn't

each produce its own chemical products?

[Guest guest]

Yes, I had the test. I do have one mold gene. (A small % of people actually

have 2 mold genes, or one particularly bad gene that makes them unable to clear

many types of toxinc. They don't get better even with cholysteramine.) The

test is one that is typically done for determining compatibility for organ

transplants.

If you want the test I recommend reading the book so you are knowledgeable

enough to get a doctor to help you out. Or go to Shoemaker or find a doctor who

is already working with Shoemaker.

----- Original Message -----

From:

Where do you get the gene testing done ? Have you done it ?

[Guest guest]

I think the toxins are in the body. It's not a question of that. The problem

is how your body deals with getting the toxins out (the biochemical processes

that happen in the liver to detox all toxins). Since your body can't clear the

toxins out, I don't think they're going to build up in the colon if you are

constipated. Unless you are clearing some and they go through the colon, but

not fast enough. But regardless, a lot of other toxins could build up, so in

general I don't think it would be good to be constipated. Personally I believe

staying non-constipated is key to good health. I eat a lot of fiber, vitamin C

and magnesum when I am taking CSM.

CSM definitely bonds to cholesterol, that is what it was designed for, to lower

cholesterol. I don't know how much you would have to take before cholesterol

got too low. I haven't been on it regularly. As I said, I removed myself from

my heavy mold exposure and am bascially well unless I am exposed. When that

happens a few days to a week on the CSM is enough to get me better again.

Sometimes just one or two doses.

I remember when I read the package insert for how CSM works, it talked about

bile. I think bile is very involved, but I don't really know how it works. I

send you pieces of the package insert if you might understand what it means.

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: Masland

Doris - Even tho cholestryramine(is that abbreviated CSM?) grabs the toxins so

that the body can eliminate them, don't the toxins get released to some degree

in the body before the body has a chance to eliminate them?

And if CSM can contribute to constipation, could this possibly cause the

toxins to stay in the body longer (and threfore be reabsorbed by the body?)

Have you heard of any other treatment besides CSM (or antitoxin as put

it)? (does CSM also bind 'helpful' things in the body, like cholesterol ,which

we need to some extent to mfgr things like hormones, I think?) Do you know if it

affects bile? (I know I have bad reactions, and increase of symptoms, when

exposed to mold - which, being in the northeast, is about all the time!) Thanks

- Les

[Guest guest]

Yes. I was reducing the antibiotics, probably not as fast as I could have but i

was cautious and didn't want to get sick again. At that point all I knew was I

had moved and wasn't sick anymore, but I hadn't figured out the mold connection.

Since I had a few re-exposures, my sinuses are worse again, which is why I take

the antibiotics. I think the coag negative staph never really goes away, it just

sits there until you have exposure which reduces your MSH and allows the staph

to grow. (This is explained in Mold Warriors and is exactly what seems to

happen to me.) I probably take more antibiotics than I need to now, but it's

pretty hard to change anything when you're feeling good and don't want it to go

away.

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: Marcia

Doris,

are you still taking antibiotics too?

Marcia

[Guest guest]

I've been doing the CSm protocol as well, so I think I can answer some

of your questions.

Yes, the toxins do circulate in the body first before the CSM has a

chance to grab onto them. They do impact you before they are excreted.

It is best to avoid exposure if possible, but lots of times it isn't.

CSM can cause contipation, but there are ways around that. You can add

magnesium, vitamin C, duccosate, or fiber to decrease constipation.

You need to be sure to drink lots of fluids. The CSM I use is

compounded with some of these things in it to decrease onstipation

issues, and it also doesn't have any sugar or aspartame.

CSM does affect cholesterol. That is what is what designed to do. If

you don't want to lower your choleserol levels, you can eat increased

levels of good quality fats to replace the fats that CSM is binding

out of the body. This will have the added benefit of stimulating bile

release, and increasing the amount of bile that will be bound up with

the CSM.

CSM also will bind minerals, medications, hormones, and other things

that may be in the intestine at the same time, so you have to be

careful on timing.

CSM does affect bile, in that it binds bile in the intestine. That is

how it binds the fats that are bound to the neurotoxins. The CSM needs

to be in the intestine at the point when bile release to digest your

food. Instead of being used to digest the fats, the bile gets bound to

the CSM, at least part of the bile does. The body then release more

cholesterol to the liver in order to produce more bile. That is the

theory on how the fats are removed from other parts of the body.

seems to think that ion exchange issues may inhibit this. I'd

like to hear more on that.

My doctors are looking into a product called Pectasol, a modified

citrus pectin, which may have similar properties to the CSM. They are

doing some testing to see if it is as effective, and whether it may

have fewer downsides for long term use.

CSM isn't perfect, but it has made a huge difference for me in terms

of pain and other symptoms. I still live in a moldy area, and may have

to move, but at least I am no longer bed ridden.

>

> Doris - Even tho cholestryramine(is that abbreviated CSM?) grabs the

toxins so that the body can eliminate them, don't the toxins get

released to some degree in the body before the body has a chance to

eliminate them?

> And if CSM can contribute to constipation, could this possibly cause

the toxins to stay in the body longer (and threfore be reabsorbed by

the body?)

> Have you heard of any other treatment besides CSM (or antitoxin as

put it)? (does CSM also bind 'helpful' things in the body, like

cholesterol ,which we need to some extent to mfgr things like

hormones, I think?) Do you know if it affects bile? (I know I have bad

reactions, and increase of symptoms, when exposed to mold - which,

being in the northeast, is about all the time!) Thanks - Les

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

There's a difference between being allergic and being

supersensensitive to things. If you aren't allergic (that is have a

histamine response) then you can still be supersensitive to it and

have a response somewhere in your body.

But don't get stuck on molds. If you are supersensitive to mold then

you are likely to be or become supersensitive to lots of things,

including light (hence the eye pain - it isn't the mold causing it -

just sensitivity to light).

I used to be supersensitive to everything I ate and everything I could

smell - shich made eating and socialising very difficult - perfumes

and deodorants made me suicidal. But I working on raising my

threshold at which the symptoms kicked in - and got better.

You can get better so good luck

[Guest guest]

- where do you live? I have a difficult time in this area finding a dr who

would be open to this whole concept. Thank you for this explanation - I

understand a lot more now abt CSM - Les

Re: Molds, mycotoxins ????

I've been doing the CSm protocol as well, so I think I can answer some

of your questions.

Yes, the toxins do circulate in the body first before the CSM has a

chance to grab onto them. They do impact you before they are excreted.

It is best to avoid exposure if possible, but lots of times it isn't.

CSM can cause contipation, but there are ways around that. You can add

magnesium, vitamin C, duccosate, or fiber to decrease constipation.

You need to be sure to drink lots of fluids. The CSM I use is

compounded with some of these things in it to decrease onstipation

issues, and it also doesn't have any sugar or aspartame.

CSM does affect cholesterol. That is what is what designed to do. If

you don't want to lower your choleserol levels, you can eat increased

levels of good quality fats to replace the fats that CSM is binding

out of the body. This will have the added benefit of stimulating bile

release, and increasing the amount of bile that will be bound up with

the CSM.

CSM also will bind minerals, medications, hormones, and other things

that may be in the intestine at the same time, so you have to be

careful on timing.

CSM does affect bile, in that it binds bile in the intestine. That is

how it binds the fats that are bound to the neurotoxins. The CSM needs

to be in the intestine at the point when bile release to digest your

food. Instead of being used to digest the fats, the bile gets bound to

the CSM, at least part of the bile does. The body then release more

cholesterol to the liver in order to produce more bile. That is the

theory on how the fats are removed from other parts of the body.

seems to think that ion exchange issues may inhibit this. I'd

like to hear more on that.

My doctors are looking into a product called Pectasol, a modified

citrus pectin, which may have similar properties to the CSM. They are

doing some testing to see if it is as effective, and whether it may

have fewer downsides for long term use.

CSM isn't perfect, but it has made a huge difference for me in terms

of pain and other symptoms. I still live in a moldy area, and may have

to move, but at least I am no longer bed ridden.

>

> Doris - Even tho cholestryramine(is that abbreviated CSM?) grabs the

toxins so that the body can eliminate them, don't the toxins get

released to some degree in the body before the body has a chance to

eliminate them?

> And if CSM can contribute to constipation, could this possibly cause

the toxins to stay in the body longer (and threfore be reabsorbed by

the body?)

> Have you heard of any other treatment besides CSM (or antitoxin as

put it)? (does CSM also bind 'helpful' things in the body, like

cholesterol ,which we need to some extent to mfgr things like

hormones, I think?) Do you know if it affects bile? (I know I have bad

reactions, and increase of symptoms, when exposed to mold - which,

being in the northeast, is about all the time!) Thanks - Les

>

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Doris - do you know how to find a listing of drs who are working with Shoemaker?

Les

Re: Molds, mycotoxins ????

Yes, I had the test. I do have one mold gene. (A small % of people actually

have 2 mold genes, or one particularly bad gene that makes them unable to clear

many types of toxinc. They don't get better even with cholysteramine.) The

test is one that is typically done for determining compatibility for organ

transplants.

If you want the test I recommend reading the book so you are knowledgeable

enough to get a doctor to help you out. Or go to Shoemaker or find a doctor who

is already working with Shoemaker.

----- Original Message -----

From:

Where do you get the gene testing done ? Have you done it ?

[Guest guest]

>

> - where do you live? I have a difficult time in this area

finding a dr who would be open to this whole concept. Thank you for

this explanation - I understand a lot more now abt CSM - Les

I'm in northern California. I pretty much had to educate my doctors,

but I'm fortunate that they are open to learning about new things. I

suggest yu get the Mold Warriors book and educate yourself first, then

see if you can get a doctor to help you. Dr. Shoemaker says there are

not many doctors who understand the protocol yet.

You can get the book at www.moldwarriors.com or at amazon.com

[Guest guest]

Thanks, ! You ARE lucky that your drs are open to learning new concepts and

willing to try new things - Les

Re: Molds, mycotoxins ????

>

> - where do you live? I have a difficult time in this area

finding a dr who would be open to this whole concept. Thank you for

this explanation - I understand a lot more now abt CSM - Les

I'm in northern California. I pretty much had to educate my doctors,

but I'm fortunate that they are open to learning about new things. I

suggest yu get the Mold Warriors book and educate yourself first, then

see if you can get a doctor to help you. Dr. Shoemaker says there are

not many doctors who understand the protocol yet.

You can get the book at www.moldwarriors.com or at amazon.com

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

http://www.moldwarriors.com/

----- Original Message -----

From:

Which book Doris ? Mold Warriers ? It is not listed on his website -

where did you buy it ?