Re: attn: Dr. Enlander-RE: L-Carnitine

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/4/2006 6:19:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,

melillo3@... writes:

Have prescribed L-Carnitine for your CFS patients?

yes, several years ago we tried l-carnitine without uniform results

Enlander MD

[Guest guest]

Hi Al

What form of l-Carnitine do you take? I've been taking l-Carnitine tartrate

since summer and it has benefitted me, too.

mjh

In a message dated 1/4/2006 6:19:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,

melillo3@... writes:

Hi Dr. Enlander,

Just wanted to mention that the supplement, " L-Carnitine " helps my

CFS and improves energy and Immune response; at least for a few hours

or days before relapsing again.

Alan Cocchetto of the NCF did mention in an article that CFS patients

have a STAT-1 Immune deficiency, also that L-Carnitine elevates IGFBP3

which elevates STAT-1 levels.

Have you tested your CFS patients for STAT-1 levels ?

Have prescribed L-Carnitine for your CFS patients?

Thanks,

Al

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

[Guest guest]

>

> In a message dated 1/4/2006 6:19:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> melillo3@d... writes:

> Have prescribed L-Carnitine for your CFS patients?

> yes, several years ago we tried l-carnitine without uniform results

>

> Enlander MD

>

And have you done STAT-1 testing on your CFS patients ?

Al

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> Hi Al

>

> What form of l-Carnitine do you take? I've been taking l-Carnitine

tartrate

> since summer and it has benefitted me, too.

>

> mjh

Hi MJH,

I use the L-Tartrate form of L-Carnitine, 250mg latley or 500mg

sometimes.

Al

[Guest guest]

I tried it and it was another thing that made me worse, it gave me dizzy spells,

so I coudln't tolerate at all, was disappointed as I'd heard such good things

about it.

Marcia

Re: attn: Dr. Enlander-RE: L-Carnitine

In a message dated 1/4/2006 6:19:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,

melillo3@... writes:

Have prescribed L-Carnitine for your CFS patients?

yes, several years ago we tried l-carnitine without uniform results

Enlander MD

[Guest guest]

Hi, Marcia and the group.

I just want to note that the synthesis of L-carnitine in the body

starts with a methylation reaction that requires SAMe. I think that

a block in the methylation cycle may explain the observations of low

L-carnitine reported in the CFS research literature. Not all PWCs

have low L-carnitine, and it seems to depend on the racial

heritage. For example, I think the results were different between

Japan and Sweden. So this might result from differing patterns of

genetic variations affecting the methylation cycle enzymes. I think

this genetically-influenced methylation cycle block really has the

capability of pulling together a lot of scattered pieces in CFS

research and clinical experience.

Rich

>

> I tried it and it was another thing that made me worse, it gave me

dizzy spells, so I coudln't tolerate at all, was disappointed as I'd

heard such good things about it.

>

> Marcia

> Re: attn: Dr. Enlander-RE: L-

Carnitine

>

>

> In a message dated 1/4/2006 6:19:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> melillo3@d... writes:

> Have prescribed L-Carnitine for your CFS patients?

> yes, several years ago we tried l-carnitine without uniform

results

>

> Enlander MD

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi, Marcia and the group.

>

> I just want to note that the synthesis of L-carnitine in the body

> starts with a methylation reaction that requires SAMe.

I wanted to say that taking L-carnitine helped me but it was so

expensive. I saw where someone was taking 250mg and I was taking

1,000mg. We take so much that we end up having to decide what to take

because of financial reasons.

Rich, I still have not seen people posting from the new GSH helping

them. I tested in the 40 percentile but that does not seem high and I

want to be in the 75 percentile of things.

Rich, you remember and he recently ordered the recup but has

not gotten it in yet. I am not sure with my having problems living

here with the mold if anything is going to help me until I get out.

Dr Shoemaker has mold patients taking cholestyramine. He uses that

stuff for everything.

Bob

[Guest guest]

Bob wrote:

>

>

>

>>Hi, Marcia and the group.

>>

>>I just want to note that the synthesis of L-carnitine in the body

>>starts with a methylation reaction that requires SAMe.

>>

>>

>

>I wanted to say that taking L-carnitine helped me but it was so

>expensive. I saw where someone was taking 250mg and I was taking

>1,000mg. We take so much that we end up having to decide what to take

>because of financial reasons.

>

>Rich, I still have not seen people posting from the new GSH helping

>them. I tested in the 40 percentile but that does not seem high and I

>want to be in the 75 percentile of things.

>

>Rich, you remember and he recently ordered the recup but has

>not gotten it in yet. I am not sure with my having problems living

>here with the mold if anything is going to help me until I get out.

>Dr Shoemaker has mold patients taking cholestyramine. He uses that

>stuff for everything.

>

>Bob

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Gail.

Cholestyramine is an old drug (the patent has run out) that was

developed for lowering cholesterol. Technically, it is an anion

exchange resin, which means that it exchanges its chloride ions for

other negatively-charged ions as it passes through the gut, and it

carries them out. It is not absorbed from the gut into the blood,

just passes on through.

The bile salts normally are secreted in the bile into the gut by the

liver and are then recycled by being reabsorbed from the gut into the

blood in the portal vein and are sent back to the liver (enterohepatic

circulation).

However, when cholestyramine is used, it binds the anions of these

bile salts and carries them out in the stools. The result is that the

liver has to synthesize more of them, and this lowers the production

of cholesterol by the liver, thus lowering the cholesterol level in

the blood.

Dr. Shoemaker first used cholestyramine on a female patient who had a

terrible case of secretory diarrhea as well as some other symptoms,

because it was the most constipating drug he knew of. It stopped her

diarrhea, and also stopped her other symptoms. He noticed this, and

continued to work on figuring out why this happened. In the end, he

realized that the woman had neurotoxins as a result of exposure to a

dinoflagellate, and that the cholestyramine was binding the negatively

charged neurotoxins and carrying them out in the stools. That's the

story of how he began to use cholestyramine in cases involving

neurotoxins (mold illness, ciguatera poisoning, Lyme disease toxin,

Pfiesteria, etc). Dr. Vrchota combines cholestyramine with a

fiber product to achieve the toxin binding while eliminating the

constipation effect.

Nowadays the drug companies promote the newer statin drugs for

lowering cholesterol, because the patents are still valid on them, and

they can therefore charge more for them. These have their own

drawbacks, however, such as lowering the production of coenzyme Q-10,

and also producing rhabdomyolysis (muscle breakdown) in some people.

Rich

> What is cholestramine and what is it used for?

> Gail

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/2006 1:59:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,

blue74730@... writes:

I wanted to say that taking L-carnitine helped me but it was so

expensive. I saw where someone was taking 250mg and I was taking

1,000mg. We take so much that we end up having to decide what to take

because of financial reasons.

Bob

I posted yesterday on another list the question:

l-Carnitine tartrate helps me, but it is $35.00 for about 45 grams.

Is my gut smart enough to combine l-Carnitine HCl and red wine for its

tartaric acid to produce l-Carnitine tartrate?

l-Carnitine HCl is about $8.00 for 60 grams. Is it stable?

I'm waiting for an answer.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/2006 12:16:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,

tomkindlon@... writes:

Iherb.com has pretty good value for L-Carnitine Tartrate tablets:

http://www.iherb.com/lcarnitine3.html

100x1000mg (i.e. 100g)

$ 36.00, 4 tubs for $136.00.

Also get reductions if total order is over a certain size

http://www.iherb.com/phonecall.html

I don't know why I could not find that item. I just got my iherb order.

180 500mg caps for $34.00

I having been using a bulk powder from another source charging $59.00 for

100 g

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

[Guest guest]

Iherb.com has pretty good value for L-Carnitine Tartrate tablets:

http://www.iherb.com/lcarnitine3.html

100x1000mg (i.e. 100g)

$ 36.00, 4 tubs for $136.00.

Also get reductions if total order is over a certain size

http://www.iherb.com/phonecall.html

If anyone knows cheaper prizes, would be interested.

Think there is a place with cheaper powder in the US but they were no good

to me as wouldn't ship outside the U.S.

One can some read some ratings at:

http://www.remedyfind.com/all_remedies.asp?id=49

http://www.remedyfind.com/rm-388-Acetyl.asp

http://www.remedyfind.com/rem.asp?ID=4780

(incl. one from me).

It'd be great if other people rated it (and other things) at RemedyFind.

Tom

Re: Re: attn: Dr. Enlander-RE: L-Carnitine

In a message dated 1/5/2006 1:59:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,

blue74730@... writes:

I wanted to say that taking L-carnitine helped me but it was so

expensive. I saw where someone was taking 250mg and I was taking

1,000mg. We take so much that we end up having to decide what to take

because of financial reasons.

Bob

I posted yesterday on another list the question:

l-Carnitine tartrate helps me, but it is $35.00 for about 45 grams.

Is my gut smart enough to combine l-Carnitine HCl and red wine for its

tartaric acid to produce l-Carnitine tartrate?

l-Carnitine HCl is about $8.00 for 60 grams. Is it stable?

I'm waiting for an answer.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/