Re: Finally, it's official - stress depresses immune function via neuropeptide Y

[Guest guest]

Dr Cheney often had suggested comas that he wants to put CFS

patients into (and i believe had 2 patients who went into 2 CFS-

unrelated ones and fully recovered) which he thinks would cure them

if it were safer, he would.

> >

> The truth is, leave it up to the people who can do it , Dr De

> Meirlier, Dr Kerr, Cheney, . Let them represent us.

> >

>

>

>

> When Dr diagnoses someone, he often says " You have CFS,

> this illness is just as real as you describe. You're not crazy, or

> at least, you may be crazy, but craziness has nothing to do with

> this disease. A person can have CFS and still be crazy too " .

>

> Dr has written that people with CFS live less functional

> lives and in more pain than people with HIV and that the prolonged

> and chronic suffering in CFS is comparable to an AIDS patient in

the

> last year of life.

> And you consider this illness to be some kind of a " learning "

> disorder?

>

> If mental self destructive factors are such a driving force in

CFS,

> then the treatment is easy. Render the brain unconscious and

> deprive the neuroreceptors of the programming resulting from this

> negativity. Deprived of behavioral interference, the body should

> soon heal itself and the patient can be revived. Of course,

unless

> the patient is mentally reprogrammed or placed on antidepressant

> chemotherapy to eliminate their self destructive thinking

patterns,

> it will be necessary to render the person unconsicous at regularly

> scheduled intervals - the longer, the better.

> If you are serious about letting these particular doctors

represent

> us, please do so.

>

> None of them represent the illness model in this manner.

> -

>

[Guest guest]

" jasonlbreckenridge " < wrote:

>

> Dr Cheney often had suggested comas that he wants to put CFS

> patients into (and i believe had 2 patients who went into 2 CFS-

> unrelated ones and fully recovered) which he thinks would cure them

if it were safer, he would.

>

Dr Cheney's reasons for coma being a healing state were increased HGH

and cortisol produced during REM sleep, which is so hard for CFSers to

achieve - NOT that it was a respite from behavioral stresses and

normal life stressors.

Dr Cheney clearly states that CFSers have a dysregulated HPA response

causing a susceptibilty to stress, instead of the opposite notion of

stress causing a susceptibility.

The basis of the " Yuppie Flu " derision was that people made fun of

the " rich spoiled yuppie Type A whining hypochondriacs " . Although no

such relationship ever existed, the lingering memory of that derision

left it's imprint in the same way that doctor still speak of Chronic

EBV even though Dr Cheney ruled out EBV before " CFS " was coined.

Dr 1999 study of the Original CFS cohort found that not a

single PWC had completely recovered, so I presume that those who have

made a complete recovery have a different variant of CFS from the type

originally identified.

This illness went through decades of doctors fighting their way

through a dozen or more doctors before finding one that would even

admit the possibility that such an illness might be possible.

Even now, it is still rare to find a doctor who recognizes the term

Myalgic Encephalomyelitis or can pronounce it, let alone spell it.

The notion that this illness was well known is completely contrary to

the experience of CFSers and the written history of their extreme

difficulty in obtaining recognition and medical assistance.

Since we cannot count upon the ability of doctors to recognize this

illness, we are forced to rely upon our personal experience to gain a

sense of former prevalence. Prior to 1985, I never saw half of a

group of people suddenly succumb to a flu like illness and never

recover, and neither had anyone else I've spoken to. My conclusion is

that this illness was rare enough to escape observation even though

the consequences are spectacularly difficult to forget.

If CFSers wish to ensure that doctors continue to treat CFS as a

stress induced illness, the certain way to accomplish that is to

present it as a stress induced illness.

-

[Guest guest]

Hello,

is right on in his discussion about the need to stop associating

M.E./CFS with stress & Type A personality.

Number one because Dr. Byron Hyde clearly shows the 70+ epidemic outbreaks

of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/CFS

in 70 different locations which are most certainly not stress related (Dr.

Hyde's definition is below). Number two is that whenever this subjectcomes

up in our support group here in the Sacramento area, a former park ranger

mentions that eight other Park rangers came down with the disease at that

same time as he did, and only one of those was a Type A personality.

Number three is that we are playing into the hands of the psychologizers in

the US (Dr. Wayne Katon & Dr. Buchwald) who are following the example of

Simon Wessely in UK--- a UK psychiatrist is even doing some consultation

work with the CDC. Number four are studies like the recent study of

cognitive dysfunction in M.E./CFS patients in China which showed that the

cognitive dysfunction was different from that experienced by those with

psychological diseases: " Cognitive function and psychological

characteristics of patients with chronic fatigue syndrome, " Journal:

Zhonghua Yi Xue Za Zhi. 2005 Nov;85(41):2926-9. Authors: Li YJ, Gao XG,

Wang DX, Lin T, Bai XL, Yang FZ.

Dr. Byron Hyde, a Canadian specialist in Myalgic Encephalomyelitis offers

this definition of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis: " Myalgic Encephalomyelitis is

a measurable, diffuse post-encephalitic illness. The illness is

characterized by (1) its acute onset, (2) the diffuse, non-focal persisting

nature of the encephalopathy, and (3) the chronicity of the resulting

symptoms. These symptoms consist of the rapid exhaustion or loss of

stamina of motor, sensory, intellectual, and cognitive abilities. M.E. is

of infectious/autoimmune origin and less commonly, a toxic/autoimmune

origin. M.E. occurs in epidemics and sporadic cases. "

Du Pre

Website: http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/soareagle/index.html

" By words the mind is winged. " Aristophanes

wrote:

Dr Cheney's reasons for coma being a healing state were increased HGH

and cortisol produced during REM sleep, which is so hard for CFSers to

achieve - NOT that it was a respite from behavioral stresses and

normal life stressors.

Dr Cheney clearly states that CFSers have a dysregulated HPA response

causing a susceptibilty to stress, instead of the opposite notion of

stress causing a susceptibility.

The basis of the " Yuppie Flu " derision was that people made fun of

the " rich spoiled yuppie Type A whining hypochondriacs " . Although no

such relationship ever existed, the lingering memory of that derision

left it's imprint in the same way that doctor still speak of Chronic

EBV even though Dr Cheney ruled out EBV before " CFS " was coined.

Dr 1999 study of the Original CFS cohort found that not a

single PWC had completely recovered, so I presume that those who have

made a complete recovery have a different variant of CFS from the type

originally identified.

This illness went through decades of doctors fighting their way

through a dozen or more doctors before finding one that would even

admit the possibility that such an illness might be possible.

Even now, it is still rare to find a doctor who recognizes the term

Myalgic Encephalomyelitis or can pronounce it, let alone spell it.

The notion that this illness was well known is completely contrary to

the experience of CFSers and the written history of their extreme

difficulty in obtaining recognition and medical assistance.

Since we cannot count upon the ability of doctors to recognize this

illness, we are forced to rely upon our personal experience to gain a

sense of former prevalence. Prior to 1985, I never saw half of a

group of people suddenly succumb to a flu like illness and never

recover, and neither had anyone else I've spoken to. My conclusion is

that this illness was rare enough to escape observation even though

the consequences are spectacularly difficult to forget.

If CFSers wish to ensure that doctors continue to treat CFS as a

stress induced illness, the certain way to accomplish that is to

present it as a stress induced illness.

-

[Guest guest]

, , et.al. Cheney had two patients who recovered from CFS while in a

COMA. That's stress reduction. There are other notable cases in which recovery

came about thru stress reduction. Mel

[Guest guest]

Hmm maybe ill start using my Xyrem again :-)

>

> , , et.al. Cheney had two patients who recovered from CFS

while in a COMA. That's stress reduction. There are other notable cases

in which recovery came about thru stress reduction. Mel

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mel Baldwin < wrote:

>

> , , et.al. Cheney had two patients who recovered from

CFS while in a COMA. That's stress reduction. There are other

notable cases in which recovery came about thru stress reduction.

Mel

>

Do you have references to that story?

My understanding is that Dr Cheney believed the state of coma

inhibited neurological damage from excitotoxicity and was seeking to

simulate the effects with Klonopin.

I am not proposing that reducing stress is without benefit, just

that statements which give the impression that stress is causative

engenders the public perception that stress is causative - and that

failure to recover is your own personal failure to control your

mental state.

If you report stories of CFS recovery through stress reduction to

your doctor, he might very likely consider this the first line of

therapy - and apply this view to other CFS sufferers as well.

-

[Guest guest]

A cardiologist in the UK believed that hyperventilation caused

ME/CFS, he used a coma-like state to treat this. Many ended up more

ill as a result of his claimed cure for ME/CFS.

I wish stress reduction was all I needed, it would be a lot cheaper

than my current Tx. Stress reduction can help in any chronic illness,

but that does not make it curative. Now that the diagnostic criteria

for ME and CFS has become so watered down, especially in the UK, it's

even being used for those who complain they're tired all the time.

This has led to further confusion over what the illness is how it

should be treated.

PWME have been left to suffer other treatable health issues because

doctors have been told we're catastrophising, need a sickness role,

or are scroungers. I'm one of them and there's many more like me.

If you want to see what too much emphasis on stress and " it's all in

the mind " can do just look at what's happening in the UK.

Tansy

> >

> > , , et.al. Cheney had two patients who recovered from

> CFS while in a COMA. That's stress reduction. There are other

> notable cases in which recovery came about thru stress reduction.

> Mel

> >

>

> Do you have references to that story?

> My understanding is that Dr Cheney believed the state of coma

> inhibited neurological damage from excitotoxicity and was seeking

to

> simulate the effects with Klonopin.

> I am not proposing that reducing stress is without benefit, just

> that statements which give the impression that stress is causative

> engenders the public perception that stress is causative - and that

> failure to recover is your own personal failure to control your

> mental state.

> If you report stories of CFS recovery through stress reduction to

> your doctor, he might very likely consider this the first line of

> therapy - and apply this view to other CFS sufferers as well.

> -

>

[Guest guest]

And that's all a COMA is, stress reduction? Come on. There's a lot more going

on when a person is in a COMA than stress reduction.

----- Original Message -----

Cheney had two patients who recovered from CFS while in a COMA. That's

stress reduction.

[Guest guest]

H Doris and everyone,

Dr Nixon of Charing Cross Hospital, London had a similar thought when he

used large quantities of drugs to put PWME to sleep for weeks - in his

expensive private practise.

He said that all PWME were hyperventilating and the long artificial sleep

would help them recover by cutting stress etc. He tried to get me into his

clinic.

I met some of the survivors of his clinic in my London ME support group. All

were harmed. One women I met went into straight into a Psychiatric Hospital from

his clinic. She was still a wreck when I met her afterwards.

Dr Cheney may be right about people in a genuine Coma but as Doris said there

is a lot else happening there.

Kindest regards,

Annette

---------------------------------

Play Santa's Celebrity Xmas Party, an exclusive game from

[Guest guest]

this must have happened because of the drugs.

resting definitely helps. I was sick but did not know that I had CFS 8 years

ago. I hurt my back. Orthopedist made a manipulation and wanted me to be in

bed for 20 days. Did not even get up for eating and did not go to toilet. At

the end of this period I felt much better as far as CFs symptoms were

concerned. so,this was something like Aggressive Rest Therapy for me.My

energy level increased for a year time.

best wishes

nil

Re: Re: Finally, it's official - stress

depresses immune function via neuropeptide Y

>H Doris and everyone,

>

> Dr Nixon of Charing Cross Hospital, London had a similar thought

> when he used large quantities of drugs to put PWME to sleep for weeks -

> in his expensive private practise.

>

> He said that all PWME were hyperventilating and the long artificial sleep

> would help them recover by cutting stress etc. He tried to get me into his

> clinic.

>

>

[Guest guest]

annette barclay <al_barclayuk@y...> wrote:

> Dr Nixon of Charing Cross Hospital, London had a similar

thought when he used large quantities of drugs to put PWME to sleep

for weeks - in his expensive private practise.

>

> He said that all PWME were hyperventilating and the long

artificial sleep would help them recover by cutting stress etc. He

tried to get me into his clinic.

>

There absolutely HAS to be some lower limit to STUPID: Signs of

Thoroughly Unmistakable Physician Intellingence Deficiency below

which a doctor proves his mental inability to deal with reality and

is shown to be unfit to practice medicine, but it seems like there

is none!

After AIDS was shown NOT to be an accumulation of " anything and

everything " in gays, did a single doctor who FAILED to see that

his " theory didn't fit the facts " suffer the slightest reprimand for

professional oversight?

After Barry Marshall rammed through H Pylori despite total medical

intrasigence, did a single doctor ever question himself as to how he

could have been so blind as to NOT NOTICE that ulcers were striking

people who weren't under abnormal amounts of stress and that the

entire " Stress causes ulcers " NEVER corresponded to peoples true

behaviors, demographics, and lifestyles?

I read that many years ago there was a hospital in which certain

doctors noticed that certain antibiotics seemed to " cure " ulcers and

started to prescribe them for that very purpose. And rather than

having this anomaly induce an investigation, they were forced by

medical authorities to STOP their " Inappropriate use of antibiotics "

because " It is well known that stress causes ulcers " .

After each " stress induced illness " is wrested from the grasp of

psychologizers, do they ever ONCE look back over their misguided

thinking and have even the slightest misgivings about applying their

concepts to any other victims of " unexplained illness " who are

unfortunate enough to have no immediate identified etiology?

I want to see a study of what is going on in psychologizer brains

that makes them so psychopathologically blameful toward patients and

unable to learn from history.

-

[Guest guest]

I did not try that again mainly because I don't like the idea of being in

bed for long hours. This is like being put into prison.Mind works. it is so

difficult to put oneself in bad with racing thoughts in mind.Requires good

amounts of will power.

I had another experience similar with that unintentionally. In 2003 I was in

very bed situation. I was at the point of dying. I had given up

everything,giving my goods to others,tearing away my personal things,doing

some necessary clean up to get ready for dying. After I finished my work and

was waiting death to come. There was a village that I liked very much. I

told myself I had to see that place once more before dying. I went to a

hotel with great difficulty.I was not being able to think anything.

So,exhausted.Just laid down,I asked for food to be brought to my room when I

wished to eat. No calls,no reading.About three days later I started noticing

my surroundings. Wished to get some air and check the view. Started to go

out to the balcony from time to time but still I was not being able to go

outside the room. About after two or 3 more days I started to be able to

take small walks outside. After total of 10 days I was able to have some of

my thinking back.That was the start of my second birth,I would call.From

that time on I am feeling myself as I have died and reborn at that period.I

stayed there for about 20 days that time. I must say that air was very fresh

and there was also thermal waters that helped me to detox faster than

normal.

As far as I know resting gives time to adrenals to regenerate. glutathione

production and other bodily systems will probably also benefit from this.

best wishes

nil

Re: Re: Finally, it's official - stress

depresses immune function via neuropeptide Y

> This is very interesting. Have you ever tried anything like this again?

> Yet another clue perhaps, so many of these clues get ignored. Maybe you

> were 'banking up' something like glutathione, or something else, by

> resting so long.

>

> --Kurt