Guest guest Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Hi all Its only one week since I started doing this because my ATP test showed that I was low in it despite supplementing about 500mg daily for about 5 years (my RBC magnesium looked ok however when my doctor tested it in the summer). I don't fully understand why it is that I tested low for the ATP test but ok on a rbc test maybe Rich might know how this can happen. Anyway I am extremely encouraged by my progress, for the past 4 days I have had energy in my legs I haven't had for years. It doesn't run out the way it did when walking, I get some uncomfortable pains in my leg muscles when walking which show they are still having problems recycling the ATP but they soon recover when I drink the D Ribose plus Myhill Magic Minerals (soluble solution) (4 times daily). Also shopping is nothing like the problem it used to be for me. I wonder how many others with CFS don't get the amount of magnesium necessary for their ATP supply by supplements alone? Dr Cheney writes about this and said that because the blood level of magnesium is normal the body shunts out any extra magnesium taken in supplement form before it can be usefully absorbed and therefore is unavailable for the production of ATP. Certainly this was the case with me and the difference is amazing. I should know next week whether heavy metals are adding to or causing this problem. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Hi, Pam. Thanks for posting this. This is great to hear! I hope things continue to improve. It has been found in the past that the level of magnesium in the red blood cells does not correlate well with the level in tissues. (Magnesium measured in the blood serum correlates even less well.) When I wrote the nutrition chapter for the Handbook of CFS that came out in 2003, I looked into this in some detail. At that time, the only really reliable way to directly evaluate tissue magnesium levels was the one offered by one lab in City, California, which uses cells swabbed from inside the mouth, and analyzes them by energy dispersive x-ray fluorescence analysis in an electron microscope. They are called Intracellular Diagnostics, Inc., and their website is at http://www.exatest.com It sounds to me as though Dr. 's test, which is a functional test, rather than a direct test of magnesium, may give them some competition! Rich > > Hi all > > Its only one week since I started doing this because my ATP test > showed that I was low in it despite supplementing about 500mg daily > for about 5 years (my RBC magnesium looked ok however when my doctor > tested it in the summer). I don't fully understand why it is that I > tested low for the ATP test but ok on a rbc test maybe Rich might > know how this can happen. > > Anyway I am extremely encouraged by my progress, for the past 4 days > I have had energy in my legs I haven't had for years. It doesn't > run out the way it did when walking, I get some uncomfortable pains > in my leg muscles when walking which show they are still having > problems recycling the ATP but they soon recover when I drink the D > Ribose plus Myhill Magic Minerals (soluble solution) (4 times > daily). Also shopping is nothing like the problem it used to be for > me. > > I wonder how many others with CFS don't get the amount of magnesium > necessary for their ATP supply by supplements alone? Dr Cheney > writes about this and said that because the blood level of magnesium > is normal the body shunts out any extra magnesium taken in > supplement form before it can be usefully absorbed and therefore is > unavailable for the production of ATP. Certainly this was the case > with me and the difference is amazing. > > I should know next week whether heavy metals are adding to or > causing this problem. > > Pam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 16:22:04 -0000 From: " rvankonynen " <richvank@...> Subject: Re: Nebulising magnesium Hi, Pam. Thanks for posting this. This is great to hear! I hope things continue to improve. It has been found in the past that the level of magnesium in the red blood cells does not correlate well with the level in tissues. (Magnesium measured in the blood serum correlates even less well.) When I wrote the nutrition chapter for the Handbook of CFS that came out in 2003, I looked into this in some detail. At that time, the only really reliable way to directly evaluate tissue magnesium levels was the one offered by one lab in City, California, which uses cells swabbed from inside the mouth, and analyzes them by energy dispersive x-ray fluorescence analysis in an electron microscope. They are called Intracellular Diagnostics, Inc., and their website is at http://www.exatest.com It sounds to me as though Dr. 's test, which is a functional test, rather than a direct test of magnesium, may give them some competition! Rich .. .. >>> Rich Is this the same test Carolyn Dean, MD, discusses in her book, The Miracle of Magnesium, that was developed by a couple of docs in a New York City Med School? mjh " The Basil Book " http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 > > Hi, Pam. > > Thanks for posting this. This is great to hear! I hope things > continue to improve. > > It has been found in the past that the level of magnesium in the red > blood cells does not correlate well with the level in tissues. > (Magnesium measured in the blood serum correlates even less well.) > When I wrote the nutrition chapter for the Handbook of CFS that came > out in 2003, I looked into this in some detail. At that time, the > only really reliable way to directly evaluate tissue magnesium > levels was the one offered by one lab in City, California, > which uses cells swabbed from inside the mouth, and analyzes them by > energy dispersive x-ray fluorescence analysis in an electron > microscope. They are called Intracellular Diagnostics, Inc., and > their website is at http://www.exatest.com > > It sounds to me as though Dr. 's test, which is a functional > test, rather than a direct test of magnesium, may give them some > competition! > > Rich > Thanks for the explanation Rich regarding blood levels of magnesium not being consistant with what's in the cells, I wonder how many doctors know that? (Not many I bet). I suppose its just like the situation with cortisol where blood levels might look ok but the saliva tests can show a different story because they are measuring what is actually at cellular level. Is it strange that I should have problems with both, ie blood levels look ok but neither cortisol or magnesium are available to the cells in sufficient quantity to do their job properly so I need to take low dose Prednisolone and to get the magnesium by nebulising it? I wonder if mercury could be the culprit in both cases? Best Wishes Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Hi Pam, Is nebulizing magnesium something we might be able to try without having to struggle to get a prescription from a doctor? I'm in the US, so I suspect no one here has even heard of it. Is the purer form of mag sulfate available through mail order? Thanks, Ellen >>With regard to nebulising the magnesium I just put 1/4 teaspoon of magnesium sulphate in the nebuliser with 1 teaspoon of water. It takes about 15 minutes to breath this is through the mouthpiece of the nebuliser. I just breathe through my mouth to do this and there is nothing unpleasant about it. When I first got the nebuliser I didn't have the magnesium sulphate powder from Dr Myhill so I used Epsom Salts instead but this tended to make me cough and wouldn't nebulise so well, it took ages and didn't all get used up. The one Dr Myhill supplies is a purer product I believe and therefore nebulises much more easily.<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 > > Hi Pam, > > Is nebulizing magnesium something we might be able to try without having to > struggle to get a prescription from a doctor? I'm in the US, so I suspect > no one here has even heard of it. Is the purer form of mag sulfate available > through mail order? > > Thanks, > Ellen Hi Ellen You could try faxing or telephone Dr Myhill's office on the following numbers- Tel: 01547 550 331 Fax: 01437 550 339 Of course you will need to put the code in for UK numbers first. Alternatively you could just use Epsom Salts but it isn't quite so good at disolving but I am sure it would still get magnesium into the lungs. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Thanks, Pam. Is the problem with epsom salts simply that they don't dissolve well? Is that what made you cough or are there impurities? Ellen > Alternatively you could just use Epsom Salts but it isn't quite so > good at disolving but I am sure it would still get magnesium into > the lungs. > > Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 > > Thanks, Pam. Is the problem with epsom salts simply that they don't dissolve > well? Is that what made you cough or are there impurities? > > Ellen > Hi Ellen It was a much firmer powder that didn't seem to disolve quite so well, I gather the one from Dr Myhill is a purer form but I am sure the Epsom Salts would work, you might cough a lot more though! They are both magnesium sulphate. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Hi, Ellen and Pam. I don't know what the impurity situation was in the Epsom salts that Pam tried, but I would like to emphasize that it's important to make sure that you use high purity substances when you nebulize into the lungs. The reason is that a nebulized puts in droplets that are of respirable size. That is, they are in the size range that will be carried down into the alveoli or air sacs in the lungs. The mucociliary escalator, which clears extraneous matter from the lungs, does not operate that deeply in the lungs. So if you put an impurity in the alveoli, it must be dealt with by the alveolar macrophages, which use their chemicals to try to dissolve it and carry it away in the blood, to be disposed of by the detox sytem. The problem is that some impurities, such as silicon dioxide (basically, sand) cannot be dissolved by the macrophages. If there is very much of this, it can end up producing interstitial pulmonary fibrosis. What happens there is that the fibroblasts come in and build a " cocoon " around the impurity particle to wall it off from the body, since it can't be removed. The problem is that it does this in the interstitial space, between the wall of the alveolus and the blood capillaries, which is where you are trying to move oxygen in and carbon dioxide out. If too much of this occurs, the person cannot get enough oxygen into their blood. The bottom line is that I would suggest getting high purity magnesium sulfate for nebulizing. I haven't looked into sources, but I'm sure there are some. Rich > > > > Thanks, Pam. Is the problem with epsom salts simply that they don't > dissolve > > well? Is that what made you cough or are there impurities? > > > > Ellen > > > Hi Ellen > > It was a much firmer powder that didn't seem to disolve quite so well, > I gather the one from Dr Myhill is a purer form but I am sure the > Epsom Salts would work, you might cough a lot more though! They are > both magnesium sulphate. > > Pam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Ellen, Pam and the group, One more thing. You also don't want to produce bacterial infections in the lungs by nebulizing. Therefore, boiling the solution before using it would be a good idea, unless it is sold as a sterile solution. Rich > > > > Thanks, Pam. Is the problem with epsom salts simply that they don't > dissolve > > well? Is that what made you cough or are there impurities? > > > > Ellen > > > Hi Ellen > > It was a much firmer powder that didn't seem to disolve quite so well, > I gather the one from Dr Myhill is a purer form but I am sure the > Epsom Salts would work, you might cough a lot more though! They are > both magnesium sulphate. > > Pam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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