Re: Re: Sauna therapy works in CFS

[Guest guest]

Well, My Dr.told me many years ago I could not handle a detox very easily &

when I tried to do an infrared sauna 30 minutes twice a day & I think it did

not get as hot as 140 degrees at all, I got really sick & relapsed. I doubt

it was much over 100. But I did sweat a lot.

Even though I was very careful to take plenty of extra minerals & drink tons

of electrolytes as I did them.

I thought I was OK until it was too late because I could tolerate the

infrared heat, easier than any other kind of heat. But that was misleading.

I still use my infra red heaters for heat in the winter & I like them for

that. But I caution those of you very ill or with detox problems to go very

slwoly & cautiously with any detox treatments.

I have still not recovered after 2 yrs of trying & it has kept me at a much

more helpless, dangerous, miserable & more painful level of existence.

C.J.

[Guest guest]

I have taken huge amounts of magnesium Glycinate & Calcium Chela max for

many many years, way before I took the sauna, which are very absorbable in the

body,

along with extra zinc, potassium, iodine & was very careful to make sure I

did not deplete any minerals.

Plus I drank a lot of electrolytes during the infrared sauna treatment

.. So I disagree with Jim that it was what caused my problems.

My Drs. think I detoxed too quickly which my body could not handle which

released mercury or other toxins in my system which caused neurotoxic pain & a

worsening of my other symptoms.

I think peoples detox abilities are at different levels of functionality.

So some people may tolerate detox treatments easier than I did.

C.J.

[Guest guest]

It really can be an ordeal but I did it with Dr. Rea - he used a fairly low

temperature - and it worked really well for me. I thought that was it for CFS

and me and I got a sauna and jacked the temperature up higher and it still

worked well. Then I had to move, couldnt use the sauna and used the ones in the

gyms - extremely hot - and it still worked for me - altho it could get brutal at

times. There's a small description of my experience at

http://phoenix-cfs.org/The%20SITE/CFSOnABudget.htm

Thats really a kick about L Ron Hubbard - but it works! Its not always easy but

I could tolerate it more than I thought. I really pushed myself in it.

Bob <blue74730@...> wrote:

They were subjected

> to thermal therapy that consisted of a far-infrared ray dry sauna at

> 60 degrees C and postsauna warming.

Cort, I just did a conversion of 60 degrees C and it is equal to 140

degrees F. I still have my two far-infrared heaters but I think when I

did my sauna's with them it was not that hot? The study did not say how

long each day?

Did you know the Church of Scientology invented this method, plus

drinking a liquid devised by Ron Hubbard, to detox drug-addicts. He

says it will completely detox everything from the fat cells but I am

not sure that I am strong enough to go through such an ordeal. I wonder

if we could drink pedialyte to replace the lost electrolytes?

Bob

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Another thing to keep in mind is that many saunas are made and/or cleaned with

toxic materials. I used a specific sauna a dozen time over a couple years and

always felt better afterward. So I tried a trial membership at a 24 hour

Nautilis that had a sauna. I tried 3 different times and each time I got very

sick afterward. I am not sure if in that case it was the construction, or maybe

how they cleaned it, or what. But based on that experience I would have said it

was a bad idea, whereas based on the first sauna a good idea.

Doris

[Guest guest]

CJ,

I really think thats what happened with me too, I'd been taking all those

minerals for years as well, even the Water Oz ones that Jim was rec. but I do

have a mouthful of mercury and metal crowns and I think a lot of my problem

comes down to my dental probs and infections. Whenever I'm on antibiotics I do

feel better. Am seeing the merc free dentist tomorrow to make some kind of

'plan' for getting rid of some of these old cracked and chipped merc crowns,

they are all ancient.

Marcia

Re: Re: Sauna therapy works in CFS

I have taken huge amounts of magnesium Glycinate & Calcium Chela max for

many many years, way before I took the sauna, which are very absorbable in

the

body,

along with extra zinc, potassium, iodine & was very careful to make sure I

did not deplete any minerals.

Plus I drank a lot of electrolytes during the infrared sauna treatment

. So I disagree with Jim that it was what caused my problems.

My Drs. think I detoxed too quickly which my body could not handle which

released mercury or other toxins in my system which caused neurotoxic pain &

a

worsening of my other symptoms.

I think peoples detox abilities are at different levels of functionality.

So some people may tolerate detox treatments easier than I did.

C.J.

[Guest guest]

I think another thing that caused probs for me is I was probably low in Vitamin

D and I think the sauna aggravated that condition as well and took me down

further and further. I started supplementing substantial amts of Vite D this

spring and its really helped my endurance levels, I'm able to do a lot more now

than I have in years thanks to the D and Ken L.s info on all that.

marcia

Re: Sauna therapy works in CFS

My thinking is that the FIR sauna should be used now, but

judiciously based on a persons condition. A person that is unable

to get out of bed will only want to use the FIR heaters to warm the

body, as their condition is more serious. Much of the problem as I

see it, for many, is low blood volume. Sweating too much may

further upset the body fluid balances.

The way to signal the body to make more blood is to increase demand

for blood, ie. increase metabolism. I believe that whatever the

metabolic blocks are, it is contributing to the low glutathione.

According to Bernard Jensen, magnesium is key to the kreb cycle (it

must be an indirect influence). Low magnesium can cause low

glutathione.

[ http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/programs/

programs.htm?NP_CODE=107 & docid=1073

Findings help explain why low magnesium status is associated with

many health disorders. Human volunteers at the Grand Forks Human

Nutrition Research Center (GFHNRC), Grand Forks, North Dakota, were

fed diets containing inadequate, marginal, and adequate amounts of

magnesium over a 6 month period to ascertain whether a systemic

neurogenic inflammatory response is of primary importance during

magnesium deprivation. Magnesium deprivation resulted in elevated

circulating substance P; changes in the release of other neurogenic

peptides, including decreases in calcitonin generelated peptide and

neuropeptide Y; and an apparent increase in oxidative stress as

indicated by reduced circulating glutathione and increased

extracellular superoxide dismutase. These findings may be the

reason that numerous epidemiological findings and magnesium

supplementation trials show that a low magnesium status is

associated with numerous disorders including coronary heart disease,

hypertension, migraine headaches, sleep disorders, mood

disturbances, and osteoporosis. ]

I'm not sure if it is the low magnesium that directly contributes to

low glutathione or if the affect is indirect, that is low Mg

interfering with ATP production and then low ATP causing the low

glutathione. Or as the info above suggests, glutathione is depleted

as a result of increased oxidative stress.

One thing to consider is that the low blood volume itself should be

sufficient to signal for the production of more blood. So there is

something out of whack in that area. It may be related to low

potassium levels, as potassium levels signal the body to release

aldosterone. It may be that due to low potassium, the body cannot

risk making aldosterone and further upset that balance, so maybe the

renin -> angiotensin -> aldosterone process is blocked because the

body is trying to conserve potassium.

If a person can tolerate exercise that is another way to increase

metabolism, but most are not able to exercise because their bodies

are unable to handle the increased metabolic waste from too much

anaerobic production of ATP. The use of FIR heat to raise the body

temperature is a way to increase metabolism without producing a lot

of metabolic waste products.

From the info here, one can see the need for magnesium, but get it

from food sources if you want to be sure of getting a form that is

useable by the body.

All the best,

Jim

> I personally think that FIR sauna treatments, if used, should come

a bit

> down the treatment track, after glutathione optimisation, nutrient

> optimisation, strict environmental chemical avoidance, etc. Some

people

> with CFS will possible never be able to tolerate them.

>

> Blake

>

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

I dont think theres any evidence that CFS patients are depleted of electrolytes;

as far as I remember several studies have indicated their electrolyte levels are

okay. Personally I would think its detox problems. I dont know why Rea doesnt

use charcoal but that is the most effective 'binder' for me.

Cbuf1920@... wrote:I have taken huge amounts of magnesium Glycinate &

Calcium Chela max for

many many years, way before I took the sauna, which are very absorbable in the

body,

along with extra zinc, potassium, iodine & was very careful to make sure I

did not deplete any minerals.

Plus I drank a lot of electrolytes during the infrared sauna treatment

.. So I disagree with Jim that it was what caused my problems.

My Drs. think I detoxed too quickly which my body could not handle which

released mercury or other toxins in my system which caused neurotoxic pain & a

worsening of my other symptoms.

I think peoples detox abilities are at different levels of functionality.

So some people may tolerate detox treatments easier than I did.

C.J.

[Guest guest]

There is evidence that many with CFS have significantly reduced total

body potassium levels, despite having normal blood levels.

Blake

cort johnson wrote:

> I dont think theres any evidence that CFS patients are depleted of

> electrolytes; as far as I remember several studies have indicated

> their electrolyte levels are okay. Personally I would think its detox

> problems. I dont know why Rea doesnt use charcoal but that is the

> most effective 'binder' for me.

>

> Cbuf1920@... wrote:I have taken huge amounts of magnesium

> Glycinate & Calcium Chela max for

> many many years, way before I took the sauna, which are very

> absorbable in the

> body,

> along with extra zinc, potassium, iodine & was very careful to make

> sure I

> did not deplete any minerals.

> Plus I drank a lot of electrolytes during the infrared sauna treatment

> . So I disagree with Jim that it was what caused my problems.

> My Drs. think I detoxed too quickly which my body could not handle which

> released mercury or other toxins in my system which caused neurotoxic

> pain & a

> worsening of my other symptoms.

> I think peoples detox abilities are at different levels of

> functionality.

> So some people may tolerate detox treatments easier than I did.

>

> C.J.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Concerns about sugar go far beyond promoting yeast. As has been stated here

recently, it affects the immune system, specifically NK cells. Sugar is also

very addictive for some- and also leads to a lot of energy ups and downs.

Adrienne

Re: Sauna therapy works in CFS

Hi this article helps with the idea of the sugar being bad in Gookinaid,

it say's it is absorbed befor entering your stomache.

Graham

Bellbird, NSW, Australia

Gookinaid

A study by Bell and Streeten established that the average CFIDS patient has

only 70% of normal blood volume. To address this, Dr. Cheney recommends drinking

one quart of an electrolyte solution daily on an empty stomach. The best one he

has found is Hydralate (Gookinaid) (www.gookinaid.com).

Hydralate is rapidly absorbed into the blood stream through the stomach lining

because it is isotonic-it matches the chemical concentration of the body's

fluids.

When one of our local members asked Dr. Cheney about vitamin IV's, Gookinaid

came up. While Dr. Cheney thinks the IV's can be very helpful, he told her that

if they are inconvenient or expensive, she could get virtually the same benefit

from her regular supplements and drinking Hydralate (Gookinaid). (This assumes

there is no problem assimilating supplements.) Because Hydralate absorbs so

rapidly, it acts like an IV.

The glucose concerned some since it's a sugar and sugar feeds yeast. He said

that it is not a concern with this product. Hydralate passes directly from the

stomach into the blood and never enters the intestinal tract where the yeast

flourishes.

Only fluids similar in concentration to the body's are easily absorbed. Water

can cause the cells lining the stomach to swell, and slow absorption. Solutions

that are too concentrated can pull water from your body into your digestive

tract.

The company was founded by Bill Goodkin. Go to their website or call

800.283.6505 for information or to place an order.

Homemade Replacement for Gookinaid with no Sugar

1 cup Spring Water

1 cup Seltzer Water

1/4 tsp Sea Salt

1/4 tsp " No Salt " Salt Substitute (potassium)

Drink 3 - 4 glasses sipped over ice daily. Observe blood pressure response.

Consider stopping if blood pressure rises above 140/90. The type of water or

amounts are irrelevant as long as it's some sort of filtered-type of water (not

tap) and the ratios are the same.

The potassium has an unpleasant taste. One member adds several drops of stevia

and puts an herbal tea bag in the empty 2 liter bottle she uses to hold this

mixture. (Something to give it flavor without altering the electrolyte balance:

peppermint, peach, raspberry zinger, etc.)

Gookinaid increases blood volume, reducing the symptoms of lightheadedness

upon standing or when in a warm environment (ie bath).