Cheney's recommendation for C0Q melt

[Guest guest]

I didn't do my homework and went and ordered the form of co-q Cheney

advised as best in the notes Carol S. was so good to have made

available.

I ordered it from NEEDs, but when I rec'd it I found that it has

citric acid in it and has some kind of orange flavoring.

I called , a company I respect. But I was enormously unhappy

with what I learned and what I couldn't learn.

I learned that there's a lot of discussion about the best form of co-

q " out there. " I told her I wasn't really up to reading (first

finding) the pharmacological research on it but since a physician I

admired had recommended it and I was low on the one I take (Jarrow--

veg cap) I'd switch.

This co-q melt that Dr. Cheney says is of high quality (maybe the

best) is VERY costly and had that orange (natural) flavor, citric

acid, and has to sit on top of your tongue for one minute.

NOWHERE, from , could I get ANY evidence of studies to show it

is best absorbed. What they show is that it is MOST QUICKLY

absorbed. When I asked if that had any advantage re its

availability/quality she repeated the quick issue but couldn't say

that she's seen any studies showing it is better absorbed or higher

in quality (whatever that consists in besides absorbability).

I am very frustrated. I respect Dr. Cheney enormously. But since

he's recommending it I sure wish someone could ascertain why.

NEEDS never indicated it had natural orange and citric acid in it and

they now charge a restocking fee to return it, which I want to do

since I don't want the orange (I get migraines from citrus foods); I

don't want to have to spend a minute so it melts and since it should

be taken with food add orange flavor to my meal when while I assume

Dr. Cheney is correct that in all supplements some brands are far

superior than are others, unless Dr. C. knows something that

doesn't the things that she said it scored high on was that it was

for folks who don't like swallowing capsules.

I also wish Needs would either give more info on ingredients since we

are not there to read the label or not charge a restocking fee. I

would ask those who agree with me to speak to their manager and point

out that a lousy web site for a mail order place really should not

charge for restocking!

Anyway, the most important thing is for us to find out which Co-Q is

best and with no taste. And also if possible several that are

equally as good but cheaper than co-melt is. I have and do

use lots of products but I'm not feeling real good about the

way they are conflating fast with best, unless there is something to

it.

This, to alert others and to seek information. And to use our buying

power, which Needs could close up shop and live well just on what

I've already spent there and I am now finding them less and less user

friendly.

Judith Wisdom

[Guest guest]

Check out lef.org They have studies about absorbability of different CoQ10's.

I always questioned the sublingual since it is supposed to be absorbed best if

taken with fat.

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: judithwisdom

[Guest guest]

-<dorisbrown9@y...> wrote:

> Check out lef.org They have studies about absorbability of

different CoQ10's. I always questioned the sublingual since it is

supposed to be absorbed best if taken with fat.

Me too Doris. My problem is that the CoQ's that are supposedly

better absorbed are usually just coQ10 with soybean oil. And

they are sometimes TWICE the price of regular coQ10. In my not

so humble opinion(!) Lef.org gives out a lot of useful information,

but it's all designed to promote their products. Why not take the

cheaper (regular) CoQ10 with a little bit of fat in a meal?

Just my two cents...

d.

> Doris

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: judithwisdom

>

>

[Guest guest]

Group:

I apologize for not getting back sooner re the question I raised over

the coq melt and as well that needs never informed me it had orange

and citric acid in it (both cause migraines).

I got pretty sick last night after a probably too intense body work

session. But:

I rec'd an article from I'll give the full citation. I read

it before the body work so my mind was reasonably functional.

There was ABSOLUTELY no ability to claim that the coq melt or even

the gel form is superior! And douglas funded the study as well as

sending it to me, which was nice.

The study was reasonably done methodologically with of course

limitations that at least they mentioned but they were limitations

that I doubt would show anything different.

The ONLY DIFFERENCE when comparing the coq as powder in capsule,

effervescent (never heard of this one), gel caps; and this coq melt

(which sounds like something I used to get a this great grille near

my high school) is that (please believe me , because I read it again,

but there is no mistaking this) the co-q melt is more appealing for

the elderly, a group they assume have a harder time swallowing

capsules and yes it gets into the blood stream faster, BUT THE DIFF

WAS NOT STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT.

That woman from and the article could claim no medical virtue

for " getting in faster. " (and paying what only donald trump could

afford). Bioavailability was I am reasonably sure measured also,

which is the thing that would make it superior enuf to even consider.

I still feel lousy and must rest and get off the computer. I don't

have the energy to deal with Needs though I've decided ahead of time

that I am not going to get myself all upset after trying my best and

with the highest ranking authority there.

I assume Dr. Cheney might be correct that some of the brands of co-q

10 might be either lousy or not as good as others. I don't know if

any work has been done to test that. I suspect that as interest

grows as apparently it is re co-q studies might follow or Dr. Cheney

or some doc might share clinical hunches as they observe patients,

but that will be hard for them to do I think.

I will thus stick with jarrow. They are a good company (as is

douglas).

I still encourage folks who come up against that restocking fee at

Needs to point out how very unfair that is until at least they get a

website that tells you about the ingredients. I could thus have

known about the orange and citric acid. And now unlike before when I

ask what else is in it they don't go to the shelves to see. They

only convey what's in the computer and there isn't much.

I am not willing to go to every company/manufacturer's website to

learn what's in new things because I find that with an illness that

requires so much reading and research from patients taking on that

additional burden just adds to all the stuff that sucks your life

into being doctor and patient, much of which really must be done.

The citation:

S.S. Joshi et al.

" Comparative bioavailability of two novel coenzyme Q10 preparations

in humans "

INTERNATIONAL JRNL OF CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY AND THERAPEUTICS, Vol.

41, No. 1/2003, pp.42-48.

The last named author works for . But I couldn't accuse

him/her of biasing the results because the results were nothing to

validate the superiority of this formulation. The title says " two "

not " four " but I'd have to re-read carefully-er to determine why,

since they mention the four I mentioned. It doesn't matter though

even if the powder in a capsule and one of the other was a matter of

borrowing results. They were very careful to specify all of the

factors that could affect outcome, etc.

I don't know what to say about the dosage rec Dr. Cheney mentioned

(it was 600 mg of a combination of co q melt and idebenone (treating

the latter, which comes from needs and possibly other outlets though

made by kirkmanlabs.com in 45mg tabs but he said if I remember

correctly that 45 mg of the " i " { drug should be treated in this

formula as 100 mg.

I sure hope my new pt is able to continue. I shall ask her to cut

back some, see how that works, and then decide. menwhile i'll overdo

underdoing to be able to get to the dentist on friday. the fast jet

set life dread disease can bring.

thanks for your input. some of you are obviously wiser than I.

usually i'm more conservative but i was feeling desperate though not

able to do any housewifery.

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I didn't see the beginning of this thread, but wondered if anyone

else gets their CoQ10 from the discount patient site at

http://www.pwpgroup.com/index.html?

I buy Vitaline CoQ10 there, which is the CoQ10 used in the major

Parkinson's studies. It is still expensive, but a good bit lower with

quick shipping, and if you need to take it at 300 mg+ level, it seems

the only way to go.

I have taken Qmelt as well, and remember my Doc saying that he

believed it was the best absorbed. Interesting that the report does

not really say that...

The same suite has a copy of a report testing a number of CoQ10's, see

http://www.pwpgroup.com/results_of_consumerlab.htm. However, neither

's or Vitaline's products are listed.

FWIW,

>

> Group:

>

> I apologize for not getting back sooner re the question I raised

over

> the coq melt and as well that needs never informed me it had orange

> and citric acid in it (both cause migraines).

>

> I got pretty sick last night after a probably too intense body work

> session. But:

>

> I rec'd an article from I'll give the full citation. I

read

> it before the body work so my mind was reasonably functional.

>

> There was ABSOLUTELY no ability to claim that the coq melt or even

> the gel form is superior! And douglas funded the study as well as

> sending it to me, which was nice.

>

> The study was reasonably done methodologically with of course

> limitations that at least they mentioned but they were limitations

> that I doubt would show anything different.

>

> The ONLY DIFFERENCE when comparing the coq as powder in capsule,

> effervescent (never heard of this one), gel caps; and this coq melt

> (which sounds like something I used to get a this great grille near

> my high school) is that (please believe me , because I read it

again,

> but there is no mistaking this) the co-q melt is more appealing for

> the elderly, a group they assume have a harder time swallowing

> capsules and yes it gets into the blood stream faster, BUT THE DIFF

> WAS NOT STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT.

>

> That woman from and the article could claim no medical

virtue

> for " getting in faster. " (and paying what only donald trump could

> afford). Bioavailability was I am reasonably sure measured also,

> which is the thing that would make it superior enuf to even

consider.

>

> I still feel lousy and must rest and get off the computer. I don't

> have the energy to deal with Needs though I've decided ahead of

time

> that I am not going to get myself all upset after trying my best

and

> with the highest ranking authority there.

>

> I assume Dr. Cheney might be correct that some of the brands of co-

q

> 10 might be either lousy or not as good as others. I don't know if

> any work has been done to test that. I suspect that as interest

> grows as apparently it is re co-q studies might follow or Dr.

Cheney

> or some doc might share clinical hunches as they observe patients,

> but that will be hard for them to do I think.

>

> I will thus stick with jarrow. They are a good company (as is

> douglas).

>

> I still encourage folks who come up against that restocking fee at

> Needs to point out how very unfair that is until at least they get

a

> website that tells you about the ingredients. I could thus have

> known about the orange and citric acid. And now unlike before when

I

> ask what else is in it they don't go to the shelves to see. They

> only convey what's in the computer and there isn't much.

>

> I am not willing to go to every company/manufacturer's website to

> learn what's in new things because I find that with an illness that

> requires so much reading and research from patients taking on that

> additional burden just adds to all the stuff that sucks your life

> into being doctor and patient, much of which really must be done.

>

> The citation:

>

> S.S. Joshi et al.

> " Comparative bioavailability of two novel coenzyme Q10 preparations

> in humans "

>

> INTERNATIONAL JRNL OF CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY AND THERAPEUTICS, Vol.

> 41, No. 1/2003, pp.42-48.

>

> The last named author works for . But I couldn't accuse

> him/her of biasing the results because the results were nothing to

> validate the superiority of this formulation. The title says " two "

> not " four " but I'd have to re-read carefully-er to determine why,

> since they mention the four I mentioned. It doesn't matter though

> even if the powder in a capsule and one of the other was a matter

of

> borrowing results. They were very careful to specify all of the

> factors that could affect outcome, etc.

>

> I don't know what to say about the dosage rec Dr. Cheney mentioned

> (it was 600 mg of a combination of co q melt and idebenone

(treating

> the latter, which comes from needs and possibly other outlets

though

> made by kirkmanlabs.com in 45mg tabs but he said if I remember

> correctly that 45 mg of the " i " { drug should be treated in this

> formula as 100 mg.

>

> I sure hope my new pt is able to continue. I shall ask her to cut

> back some, see how that works, and then decide. menwhile i'll

overdo

> underdoing to be able to get to the dentist on friday. the fast

jet

> set life dread disease can bring.

>

> thanks for your input. some of you are obviously wiser than I.

> usually i'm more conservative but i was feeling desperate though

not

> able to do any housewifery.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I agree with you. They also irritate me that in order to get a decent

price you have to buy 4, so if it doesn't work out, you spent a lot of money for

nothing. BUT at the same time, I haven't seen anyone summarize research as well

as they do, and they have been out in advance of most other mainstream press

picking up on things. If I read something in their magazine, then a year or two

later I start reading it elsewhere. I think that if you are not a person who

wants to spend hours researching what to take and in what combinations, you can

trust them to give you the right thing. For example, if something works better

with boron, they add the boron. If it works better with fat, they add the fat.

So if your goal is lowest cost, they are not it. But if your goal is to make

sure you get the best stuff, then you can trust them to take care of you.

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: kdrbrill

Me too Doris. My problem is that the CoQ's that are supposedly

better absorbed are usually just coQ10 with soybean oil. And

they are sometimes TWICE the price of regular coQ10. In my not

so humble opinion(!) Lef.org gives out a lot of useful information,

but it's all designed to promote their products. Why not take the

cheaper (regular) CoQ10 with a little bit of fat in a meal?

[Guest guest]

Hi, All,

A little input re the CoQMelt by , etc. I'm a patient of Dr.

Cheney's as some of you know. Before seeing him in early 2003, I

tried 3 different forms of CoQ10, VERY low doses, eg 30mg, due to my

ULTRA-sensitivites. I was laid flat by all. In my own experience

(we're all different, and I don't have migraines, so I'm sorry for

your experience Judith - and will mention to my sister as she does

and uses CoQMelt), the very first 100mg CoQMelt I took produced a

phenomenal miracle instantaneously. It was that noticeable. After

working with it - because I always have trouble and have to ramping

up with everything - for about a year now, I'm currently at 4 100mg

tabs/day.

In contrast, Idebenone, which Dr. Cheney and I thought would work

better than CoQMelt, with the first one, dropped me as if I'd been

thrown out of an airplane at 30,000 feet. You couldn't pay me to go

near the thing again.

The noticeable benefit I derive from CoQMelt is what seems to be

IMMEDIATE oxygenation and improved microcirculation. Oh, and I also

use chronobiological therapy - so I take it with Klonopin.

Now for the interesting part: I had been taking two and feeling

really " WOW " about that, you know, huge sense of

accomplishment!!! . Those two were during the day and I had to be

careful to take them at least 5 hours apart or I'd be " bitten "

or " creamed " in Dr. Cheney's terms. Then, because at night I have

horrific hypoxemia, central neurogenic hypervenitlation, respiratory

alkalosis and carpal pedal spasms that also involve my head, neck

eyes and jaw, I wake up in not very great circumstances... plus pain

from lack of microcirculation. So about a month+ ago, I started

taking a CoQMelt the minute I woke up along with the first daytime

1/4 tab of .05mg Klonopin (so 6am, 7:30am, 8am - whenever). Instant

oxygenation, pain vanishes, AUTOMATIC (don't have to think about it)

deep breathing ensues, ***AND*** here's the interesting part... I

could go back to sleep and feel good when I awoke 2-3 hours later.

So. During the day it oxygenates and energizes. In the morning

while sleeping it oxygenates and I can sleep really well.

Therefore, this last week, after reviewing these observations and

making a risk/benefit analysis (!), I decided to conduct an

experiment: I take 1 CoQMelt when I go to sleep, along with my

bedtime dose of Klonopin. And, I s-l-e-e-p and awake without all

those nightmare effects and no pain! I'm reporting this to Dr.

Cheney this week to see what he thinks.

Re $$$ and ordering: I am not wealthy. I scrape my pennies together

all the time. And now every year I scrape my pennies together to buy

this form of CoQ10 that has made a significant contribution to my

life. I buy in bulk from Life Extension during their annual sale in

January, because so far their price beats NEEDS significantly every

time.

And I have the same problem with NEEDS website - they should list all

ingredients. ProHealth does the same thiing in their catalog - not

all ingreds are listed, but at least they take things back - but

still that's energy units. I am the type, however, who does not take

anything without first inspecting the PDS to the best of my cognitive

abilities...when, of course, agailable - like at Labs website.

I usually put it everywhere in my mouth - sort of optimizing

all " receptors " - so on and under tongue, etc. And I don't take it

with meals. I was shocked, too, at those ingredients, but as it's

the only form of CQ10 I tolerate, and produces amazing results, I go

with it.

Some may like to know that also produces a 60mg CoQMelt tab.

Anyway, this is my experience. The frustrating thing with this

disease is that we each respond so differently. If I learn anything

about the day vs night response - sort of similar to Klonopin, or if

taking it at bedtime backfires on me, I'll share it.

Best wishes,

>

> I didn't do my homework and went and ordered the form of co-q

Cheney

> advised as best in the notes Carol S. was so good to have made

> available.

>

> I ordered it from NEEDs, but when I rec'd it I found that it has

> citric acid in it and has some kind of orange flavoring.

>

> I called , a company I respect. But I was enormously

unhappy

> with what I learned and what I couldn't learn.

>

> I learned that there's a lot of discussion about the best form of

co-

> q " out there. " I told her I wasn't really up to reading (first

> finding) the pharmacological research on it but since a physician I

> admired had recommended it and I was low on the one I take (Jarrow--

> veg cap) I'd switch.

>

> This co-q melt that Dr. Cheney says is of high quality (maybe the

> best) is VERY costly and had that orange (natural) flavor, citric

> acid, and has to sit on top of your tongue for one minute.

>

> NOWHERE, from , could I get ANY evidence of studies to show

it

> is best absorbed. What they show is that it is MOST QUICKLY

> absorbed. When I asked if that had any advantage re its

> availability/quality she repeated the quick issue but couldn't say

> that she's seen any studies showing it is better absorbed or higher

> in quality (whatever that consists in besides absorbability).

>

> I am very frustrated. I respect Dr. Cheney enormously. But since

> he's recommending it I sure wish someone could ascertain why.

>

> NEEDS never indicated it had natural orange and citric acid in it

and

> they now charge a restocking fee to return it, which I want to do

> since I don't want the orange (I get migraines from citrus foods);

I

> don't want to have to spend a minute so it melts and since it

should

> be taken with food add orange flavor to my meal when while I assume

> Dr. Cheney is correct that in all supplements some brands are far

> superior than are others, unless Dr. C. knows something that

> doesn't the things that she said it scored high on was that it was

> for folks who don't like swallowing capsules.

>

> I also wish Needs would either give more info on ingredients since

we

> are not there to read the label or not charge a restocking fee. I

> would ask those who agree with me to speak to their manager and

point

> out that a lousy web site for a mail order place really should not

> charge for restocking!

>

> Anyway, the most important thing is for us to find out which Co-Q

is

> best and with no taste. And also if possible several that are

> equally as good but cheaper than co-melt is. I have and do

> use lots of products but I'm not feeling real good about

the

> way they are conflating fast with best, unless there is something

to

> it.

>

> This, to alert others and to seek information. And to use our

buying

> power, which Needs could close up shop and live well just on what

> I've already spent there and I am now finding them less and less

user

> friendly.

>

> Judith Wisdom

[Guest guest]

,

I was shocked to read your post, and of course happy for you as well

as getting some input roundabout from Cheney, since he's why I bought

the stuff in the first place.

I had called NEEDS to arrange for a return since I hadn't (till your

post--though I'm behind--seen anything, including in 's

research article which I relied on for a raison to try the stuff.

Needs was a bit snappy with me but is taking it back and dropping the

restocking fee on it--not the general policy I was quickly informed.

I'm not inclined to buy a huge amount from Life Ext until I'd know

that it was working for me as it is for you or even less.

So I do encourage, plead with any other folks using co-q melt or any

folks who've talked with Cheney about what led him to feel so good

about it to report to the list.

Meanwhile, I'll probably go with trying the softgels since there was

some info on the absorbability issue being better than the dry stuff

I've been taking, depending on water. And look around for the best

deal on one box or a smaller dose, though I'm inclined towards

sticking with 100 mg because your story is not one along with Cheney

having recommended it to dismiss.

If you can, I would love to hear from you what Cheney says when you

tell him. Are you unique in having this excellent reaction? Etc.

Many thanks.

Judith

> >

> > I didn't do my homework and went and ordered the form of co-q

> Cheney

> > advised as best in the notes Carol S. was so good to have made

> > available.

> >

> > I ordered it from NEEDs, but when I rec'd it I found that it has

> > citric acid in it and has some kind of orange flavoring.

> >

> > I called , a company I respect. But I was enormously

> unhappy

> > with what I learned and what I couldn't learn.

> >

> > I learned that there's a lot of discussion about the best form of

> co-

> > q " out there. " I told her I wasn't really up to reading (first

> > finding) the pharmacological research on it but since a physician

I

> > admired had recommended it and I was low on the one I take

(Jarrow--

> > veg cap) I'd switch.

> >

> > This co-q melt that Dr. Cheney says is of high quality (maybe the

> > best) is VERY costly and had that orange (natural) flavor, citric

> > acid, and has to sit on top of your tongue for one minute.

> >

> > NOWHERE, from , could I get ANY evidence of studies to

show

> it

> > is best absorbed. What they show is that it is MOST QUICKLY

> > absorbed. When I asked if that had any advantage re its

> > availability/quality she repeated the quick issue but couldn't

say

> > that she's seen any studies showing it is better absorbed or

higher

> > in quality (whatever that consists in besides absorbability).

> >

> > I am very frustrated. I respect Dr. Cheney enormously. But

since

> > he's recommending it I sure wish someone could ascertain why.

> >

> > NEEDS never indicated it had natural orange and citric acid in it

> and

> > they now charge a restocking fee to return it, which I want to do

> > since I don't want the orange (I get migraines from citrus

foods);

> I

> > don't want to have to spend a minute so it melts and since it

> should

> > be taken with food add orange flavor to my meal when while I

assume

> > Dr. Cheney is correct that in all supplements some brands are far

> > superior than are others, unless Dr. C. knows something that

>

> > doesn't the things that she said it scored high on was that it

was

> > for folks who don't like swallowing capsules.

> >

> > I also wish Needs would either give more info on ingredients

since

> we

> > are not there to read the label or not charge a restocking fee.

I

> > would ask those who agree with me to speak to their manager and

> point

> > out that a lousy web site for a mail order place really should

not

> > charge for restocking!

> >

> > Anyway, the most important thing is for us to find out which Co-Q

> is

> > best and with no taste. And also if possible several that are

> > equally as good but cheaper than co-melt is. I have and

do

> > use lots of products but I'm not feeling real good about

> the

> > way they are conflating fast with best, unless there is something

> to

> > it.

> >

> > This, to alert others and to seek information. And to use our

> buying

> > power, which Needs could close up shop and live well just on what

> > I've already spent there and I am now finding them less and less

> user

> > friendly.

> >

> > Judith Wisdom

[Guest guest]

Very interesting post.

ANy comments on why the sublinguual form is so much better tolerated

by you that the oil/mixed gelcaps?

Here's a site which is a very good summary of CoQ10.

http://faculty.washington.edu/~ely/coenzq10.html

Barb

> > >

> > > I didn't do my homework and went and ordered the form of co-q

> > Cheney

> > > advised as best in the notes Carol S. was so good to have made

> > > available.

> > >

> > > I ordered it from NEEDs, but when I rec'd it I found that it

has

> > > citric acid in it and has some kind of orange flavoring.

> > >

> > > I called , a company I respect. But I was enormously

> > unhappy

> > > with what I learned and what I couldn't learn.

> > >

> > > I learned that there's a lot of discussion about the best form

of

> > co-

> > > q " out there. " I told her I wasn't really up to reading (first

> > > finding) the pharmacological research on it but since a

physician

> I

> > > admired had recommended it and I was low on the one I take

> (Jarrow--

> > > veg cap) I'd switch.

> > >

> > > This co-q melt that Dr. Cheney says is of high quality (maybe

the

> > > best) is VERY costly and had that orange (natural) flavor,

citric

> > > acid, and has to sit on top of your tongue for one minute.

> > >

> > > NOWHERE, from , could I get ANY evidence of studies to

> show

> > it

> > > is best absorbed. What they show is that it is MOST QUICKLY

> > > absorbed. When I asked if that had any advantage re its

> > > availability/quality she repeated the quick issue but couldn't

> say

> > > that she's seen any studies showing it is better absorbed or

> higher

> > > in quality (whatever that consists in besides absorbability).

> > >

> > > I am very frustrated. I respect Dr. Cheney enormously. But

> since

> > > he's recommending it I sure wish someone could ascertain why.

> > >

> > > NEEDS never indicated it had natural orange and citric acid in

it

> > and

> > > they now charge a restocking fee to return it, which I want to

do

> > > since I don't want the orange (I get migraines from citrus

> foods);

> > I

> > > don't want to have to spend a minute so it melts and since it

> > should

> > > be taken with food add orange flavor to my meal when while I

> assume

> > > Dr. Cheney is correct that in all supplements some brands are

far

> > > superior than are others, unless Dr. C. knows something that

> >

> > > doesn't the things that she said it scored high on was that it

> was

> > > for folks who don't like swallowing capsules.

> > >

> > > I also wish Needs would either give more info on ingredients

> since

> > we

> > > are not there to read the label or not charge a restocking

fee.

> I

> > > would ask those who agree with me to speak to their manager and

> > point

> > > out that a lousy web site for a mail order place really should

> not

> > > charge for restocking!

> > >

> > > Anyway, the most important thing is for us to find out which Co-

Q

> > is

> > > best and with no taste. And also if possible several that are

> > > equally as good but cheaper than co-melt is. I have

and

> do

> > > use lots of products but I'm not feeling real good

about

> > the

> > > way they are conflating fast with best, unless there is

something

> > to

> > > it.

> > >

> > > This, to alert others and to seek information. And to use our

> > buying

> > > power, which Needs could close up shop and live well just on

what

> > > I've already spent there and I am now finding them less and

less

> > user

> > > friendly.

> > >

> > > Judith Wisdom