Re: New native (nondenatured) whey protein product

February 6, 2005

Rich wrote:

By way of background, as many of you know, Well Wisdom has been

producing ImmunoPro Rx since 2000. It has been the only truly

nondenatured (or " native " ) whey protein product on the market. The

other whey protein products on the market are byproducts of

cheesemaking, in which the original milk has been put through

pasteurization and pH lowering, which denatures some of the

components in the original milk. These final products do not

contain the lactoferrin (unless it is specifically added back in),

immunoglobulins, bovine serum albumin, active peptides or growth

factors that are found in fresh milk.

bg replies: Rich, I don't believe ImmunePro has been the only non-

denatured product on the market. Metagenics BioPure has been on the

market for quite some time. I've purchased it from Needs.com. The

ones in the health food stores have seemed to be of the byproducts

from cheese making, but not Metagenics. Also, I seem to remember

one or two others. If you'd like to know about these, I'll dig them

up from my files.

Will you look into this question and post a reply?

bg

>

> Hi, all.

>

> I had a phone conversation with Keenan of Well Wisdom, the

> maker of ImmunoPro Rx, yesterday. He told me about a new product

> that they have developed and are launching this weekend.

>

> Let me say upfront that I am not financially involved with Well

> Wisdom or with their products, nor have I accepted any gratuities

> from this company. I do, however, think that people on this list

> may want to know about this.

>

> By way of background, as many of you know, Well Wisdom has been

> producing ImmunoPro Rx since 2000. It has been the only truly

> nondenatured (or " native " ) whey protein product on the market. The

> other whey protein products on the market are byproducts of

> cheesemaking, in which the original milk has been put through

> pasteurization and pH lowering, which denatures some of the

> components in the original milk. These final products do not

> contain the lactoferrin (unless it is specifically added back in),

> immunoglobulins, bovine serum albumin, active peptides or growth

> factors that are found in fresh milk.

>

> I have been particularly interested in ImmunoPro Rx because of its

> high content of cysteine, which is particularly useable by the

liver

> for making glutathione. The liver is normally the main producer

of

> glutathione in the body, and I believe that the depletion of

> glutathione is a key part of the pathogenesis of chronic fatigue

> syndrome for many people with CFS. The other products have lower

> cysteine contents, since the processing described above tends to

> oxidize cysteine to cystine, which is less useable by the liver.

>

> Several PWCs on this list who have used ImmunePro Rx as well as

> other whey protein products in the past have reported that

ImmunePro

> Rx has seemed to them to be more potent than the others. I

believe

> this is consistent with its different processing and composition.

>

> As you may also know, the price of ImmunoPro Rx has been higher,

on

> a gram-for-gram basis, than those of so-called " undenatured " whey

> protein products. In addition, ImmunoPro Rx has not been so easy

to

> mix, and some people have found its taste somewhat " blah. "

>

> In response to these factors, the Well Wisdom company has

developed

> a new product called RenewPro. This product is a nondenatured or

> native whey protein product like ImmunoPro Rx. It contains the

same

> ingredients as ImmunoPro Rx, but some of them in slightly smaller

> amounts. For comparison, a 5-gram serving scoop contains 4 grams

of

> 100% biologically active proteins in each of these products.

> ImmunoPro Rx in addition contains 645 mg of immunoglobulins and

170

> mg of lactoferrin, while RenewPro contains 520 mg of

immunoglobulins

> and 125 mg of lactoferrin. So there is the same amount of

> nondenatured or native whey proteins, but somewhat smaller amounts

> of immunoglobulins and lactoferrin in the new RenewPro.

>

> In addition, RenewPro contains a small amount of a natural, low

> glycemic sweetener called Lo Han Guo. This was done to restore

the

> sweetness of milk that is originally supplied by lactose, and

> therefore improve the taste. In addition, RenewPro is, according

to

> , easier to mix than ImmunoPro Rx.

>

> The manufacturer's suggested retail price for a 300-gram jar of

> RenewPro is $36.95, as compared to $59.95 for the same amount of

> ImmunoPro Rx. This is a considerable price reduction. According

to

> , a special is being offered now on the new RenewPro by

needs

> (http://www.needs.com). I don't see anything on their website

about

> it, but perhaps it can be ordered by phone at (1-800-634-1380).

>

> According to , what Well Wisdom has done to produce this

new

> product is to build a new production facility that uses a

different

> type of filtration. The product can thus be produced at lower

cost

> with only a relatively small penalty in recovery of the

lactoferrin

> and immunoglobulins.

>

> So that's the story he told me, and I'm just passing along this

> information because I think it might be useful to people on the

> list. I would of course be interested to hear from anyone who

> decides to try it, to see if it seems to be helpful.

>

> Rich

February 6, 2005

I hope that WellWisdom does not plan to replace ImmunoPro with this new

product. I attribute my level of functioning almost entirely to IP. Knowing

how my function level can be dramatically affected by a few micrograms more

or less of anything, I am concerned that the modicum of difference between

the two preparations might make all the difference in terms of functioning.

I also find the objections to the taste of IP puzzling. From the beginning,

IP has tasted like something my body needs. I never mix it with anything

other than purified water, and on occasion, I even lick it from a spoon. I

can't tolerate sweetening agents; just give me honey or plain old sugar, so

I'm not happy to hear about the addition of some strange sweetener. I also

have no difficulty whatsoever in mixing the IP. I use a shaker bottle with a

sort of screen at the top that fully mixes the IP with just 4 or 5 shakes. I

have no association with the company that makes the shaker, but the initials

are UN, if anybody wants to look for one. (At the beginning of my illness,

even shaking a plastic bottle was a challenge.)

Anyway, this news filled me with some alarm; I hope Well Wisdom has no plans

to discontinue the original formulation. As to the price, I routinely

purchase IP at an online site for $36-38 per jar, and I use two jars per

month.

LaRue

February 6, 2005

bg and LaRue,

I asked Keenan about the issues you raised, and this is his

reply:

" Metagenics Biopure whey protein is a by-product of cheese

manufacture and

has undergone all the commercial processing and high heating

associated with

that. It is not a native (non-denatured) whey protein.

ImmunoPro Rx will always continue to be available. RenewPro is the

new

economical offspring added to our native non-denatured protein line. "

Rich

> I hope that WellWisdom does not plan to replace ImmunoPro with

this new

> product. I attribute my level of functioning almost entirely to

IP. Knowing

> how my function level can be dramatically affected by a few

micrograms more

> or less of anything, I am concerned that the modicum of difference

between

> the two preparations might make all the difference in terms of

functioning.

>

> I also find the objections to the taste of IP puzzling. From the

beginning,

> IP has tasted like something my body needs. I never mix it with

anything

> other than purified water, and on occasion, I even lick it from a

spoon. I

> can't tolerate sweetening agents; just give me honey or plain old

sugar, so

> I'm not happy to hear about the addition of some strange

sweetener. I also

> have no difficulty whatsoever in mixing the IP. I use a shaker

bottle with a

> sort of screen at the top that fully mixes the IP with just 4 or 5

shakes. I

> have no association with the company that makes the shaker, but

the initials

> are UN, if anybody wants to look for one. (At the beginning of my

illness,

> even shaking a plastic bottle was a challenge.)

>

> Anyway, this news filled me with some alarm; I hope Well Wisdom

has no plans

> to discontinue the original formulation. As to the price, I

routinely

> purchase IP at an online site for $36-38 per jar, and I use two

jars per

> month.

>

> LaRue

February 6, 2005

Thanks very much, Rich. That's certainly good news.

LaRue

> bg and LaRue,

>

> I asked Keenan about the issues you raised, and this is his

> reply:

>

>ImmunoPro Rx will always continue to be available. RenewPro is the

> new

> economical offspring added to our native non-denatured protein line. "

February 7, 2005

I would like more explanation of this. Let's go through the As I remember the

progression, the original studies were done on ImmunoPro, I believe this came in

packets. I believe they later changed their name to ImmunePro. That's what the

sticker on my old jar says. Then there was Imuplus which was similar, also in

packets. Then ImmunoPro came along and at first the feeling was that it was

going to be way better. That was what Cheney thought based on his first

patients that used it. But it was found to work better on some but worse on

others. So it was determined they work " differently. " Now there is also

ImmunPlex by ProHealth/ImmuneSupport, and LEF also has an undenatured whey

protein. I've heard about others but these are the ones I researched and took

myself.

So... are you saying none of these are nondenatured? My understanding has

always been that all of these above are non-denatured. So that not true, or

what is the impact of being " native " ?

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong on anything above, I can't find the

right old messages.

Imuplus is definitely hard to mix, and I had always heard ImmunePro was the

same. But the others are all much easier to mix. After going through 6 of

those " special low speed " blenders, I finally starting mixing a packet of

Imuplus with a scoop of one of the others that mix well. Then I can shake it up

in tupperware with milk or water and it dissolves fine and tastes good. But I

can't imagine anyone saying that Imuplus mixes well.

Doris

----- Original Message -----

By way of background, as many of you know, Well Wisdom has been

producing ImmunoPro Rx since 2000. It has been the only truly

nondenatured (or " native " ) whey protein product on the market. The

other whey protein products on the market are byproducts of

cheesemaking, in which the original milk has been put through

pasteurization and pH lowering, which denatures some of the

components in the original milk.

February 7, 2005

G'day Folks,

I've just completed 38 continuous months of daily ImmunoproRx.

Is this a record?

For the last 18 months I've been mixing 3 scoops with water and

sipping it during 22 minutes walk on my treadmill, covering 1.5km

(just under a mile). The pain is always there, but the energy is back.

Back in mid 2002, I could only walk slowly for a few minutes before

the exhaustion and aching pain, that many readers will be familiar

with, stopped me. In 1998 I completed a half-marathon!

Do I put my partial recovery down to ImmunoproRx?

It possibly helped, but I am inclined to primarily thank Oxazepam for

6 hours uninterrupted sleep each night, long term Famvir, and

Doxycycline. I recently stopped the Doxy.

I also think some form of graded, progressive exercise, however

simple, is part of the story.

I know Oxazepam is apparently addictive, but I haven't changed the

dose for 2 years, and if I have to treble it in 10 years, I'll be 68,

and I don't care.

Oh, and after a few years on ImmunoproRx, you'll grow accustomed to

the taste.

Prescriptable.

February 7, 2005

I agree with LaRue about the taste of IP - it is much creamier and

better tasting than other wheys I've tried (Metagenics Biopure and Twin

Lab Tripe Whey Fuel).

FWIT, I'm not sure anyone else noticed but the labelling on the

ImmunePro canister changed last year. My previous canister said that it

had 800mg of Immunoglobulins per serve while on the last canister I

bought (mid last year) this was changed to 650mg (or what Rich wrote,

645mg I don't have it on me). The labelling text was worded differently

too, and made mention that it could be used with animals.

cheers Caleb

----

SloanLL wrote:

I also find the objections to the taste of IP puzzling. From the beginning,

IP has tasted like something my body needs.

--

Caleb's CFS Pages http://www.papercuts.co.uk/cfs/

Now with weblog!

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February 7, 2005

Caleb, LaRue, All,

The months I took whey protein, I always stirred it into a

combination of plain yogurt with a tablespoon of liquid flaxseed oil

(the Budwig formula) to which I added some fresh fruit in season and

some powdered acidophilus, and a few other things. I wasn't aware

of its taste that way.

My logic in doing this was I felt it all worked synergistically. I

had been eating the yogurt combo daily for 7 years, so the changes I

noticed beginning the whey -- and resulting from its addition -- in

my opinion were the result of adding it. The science behind the

Budwig combo is the yogurt (a protein carrier) gets the EFA's (from

the yogurt) into the cells and can repair them.

(This is similar to " lipid replacement " that we've heard so much

about from the Detoxx people ( Kane, et al; and more

recently from Dr. Garth Nicolson in one of his latest articles on

www.immed.org.)

bg

>

> I also find the objections to the taste of IP puzzling. From the

beginning,

> IP has tasted like something my body needs.

>

> --

>

> Caleb's CFS Pages http://www.papercuts.co.uk/cfs/

> Now with weblog!

>

> -------------------------------------------------

>

> --

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release Date:

3/02/2005

February 7, 2005

live and learn - slowly

here's the old label

http://www.geocities.com/GuaiWhey/wheylabel.htm

native whey is a new term to me

>

> FWIT, I'm not sure anyone else noticed but the labelling on the

> ImmunePro canister changed last year. My previous canister said that it

> had 800mg of Immunoglobulins per serve while on the last canister I

> bought (mid last year) this was changed to 650mg (or what Rich wrote,

> 645mg I don't have it on me). The labelling text was worded differently

> too, and made mention that it could be used with animals.

>

> cheers Caleb

>

February 7, 2005

" bg "

The idea with whey is to smuggle it past the digestive system by taking it alone

on an empty stomach. This is called " passive digestion " and protects the

delicate active ingredients from damage by gastric acid. You might get away with

adding a small amount of milk but not this cocktail.

Rob

Re: New native (nondenatured) whey protein product

Caleb, LaRue, All,

The months I took whey protein, I always stirred it into a

combination of plain yogurt with a tablespoon of liquid flaxseed oil

(the Budwig formula) to which I added some fresh fruit in season and

some powdered acidophilus, and a few other things. I wasn't aware

of its taste that way.

My logic in doing this was I felt it all worked synergistically. I

had been eating the yogurt combo daily for 7 years, so the changes I

noticed beginning the whey -- and resulting from its addition -- in

my opinion were the result of adding it. The science behind the

Budwig combo is the yogurt (a protein carrier) gets the EFA's (from

the yogurt) into the cells and can repair them.

(This is similar to " lipid replacement " that we've heard so much

about from the Detoxx people ( Kane, et al; and more

recently from Dr. Garth Nicolson in one of his latest articles on

www.immed.org.)

bg

February 7, 2005

Hi, Doris.

I think the original small study that Dr. Cheney ran was on

Immunocal.

Imuplus, I think, is identical to Imunocal.

As far as I know, the only whey protein products currently on the

market that are truly nondenatured or " native " protein are ImmunoPro

Rx and now RenewPro. The others have been called " undenatured, "

which is really a nonsensical term, since it is not possible

to " undenature " protein once it has been denatured.

The impact of being nondenatured or " native " in this context is that

the nondenatured products contain those parts of the original whey

from raw cow's milk that are sensitive to pasteurization and

acidification, in their original forms. This means that some

components that would be totally destroyed by pasteurization and

cheesemaking processes are still present (including active peptides,

growth factors, immunoglobulins, lactoferrin and bovine serum

albumin). It also means that the cysteine that is present in the

proteins as they come from the cow is still present as cysteine, and

has not been oxidized to cystine. That is significant, because the

liver is much less able to import cystine than cysteine, and this

usually the rate-limiting amino acid for making glutathione.

Rich

> I would like more explanation of this. Let's go through the As I

remember the progression, the original studies were done on

ImmunoPro, I believe this came in packets. I believe they later

changed their name to ImmunePro. That's what the sticker on my old

jar says. Then there was Imuplus which was similar, also in

packets. Then ImmunoPro came along and at first the feeling was

that it was going to be way better. That was what Cheney thought

based on his first patients that used it. But it was found to work

better on some but worse on others. So it was determined they

work " differently. " Now there is also ImmunPlex by

ProHealth/ImmuneSupport, and LEF also has an undenatured whey

protein. I've heard about others but these are the ones I

researched and took myself.

>

> So... are you saying none of these are nondenatured? My

understanding has always been that all of these above are non-

denatured. So that not true, or what is the impact of

being " native " ?

>

> Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong on anything above, I

can't find the right old messages.

>

> Imuplus is definitely hard to mix, and I had always heard

ImmunePro was the same. But the others are all much easier to mix.

After going through 6 of those " special low speed " blenders, I

finally starting mixing a packet of Imuplus with a scoop of one of

the others that mix well. Then I can shake it up in tupperware with

milk or water and it dissolves fine and tastes good. But I can't

imagine anyone saying that Imuplus mixes well.

>

> Doris

> ----- Original Message -----

> By way of background, as many of you know, Well Wisdom has been

> producing ImmunoPro Rx since 2000. It has been the only truly

> nondenatured (or " native " ) whey protein product on the market.

The

> other whey protein products on the market are byproducts of

> cheesemaking, in which the original milk has been put through

> pasteurization and pH lowering, which denatures some of the

> components in the original milk.

>

February 7, 2005

Rob,

I later read the same thing you posted -- that it is best taken on

an empty stomach. Even taking it as I did, I still had a severe

reaction to the 2 recommended scoops, and had to reduce it to 1

scoop to tolerate it. Even on the one scoop, I still felt a

lesser " herx " in my forehead areas (site of my original long-term

infection in 1991, discomfort from which had continued

intermittently since that time). I know this herx experience may

sound weird, but this is the way it was.

Also, I thought I was using one of the superior whey proteins

(Metagenics Bio-Pure), but apparently it was not as potent as

ImmunePro. I may not have been able to tolerate the whey protein

for 6 months had I been on ImmunePro, as I could only tolerate the

one scoop of Metagenics. Is it possible that the flaxseed-

oil/sulphurated protein combo also carried some of the benefits of

the whey protein into the cells. (Nobel nominations showed it

carried the EFAs into the cells of terminal cancer patients and

cured them. I certainly don't know the answer to this.)

However, I can't argue with the bottom-line -- which was testing

when I began the whey protein by my physician, and testing at the

end of the 6 months that showed success in getting rid of the

c.pneumoniae infection. To re-iterate: I'd been on Zithromax for

several months on alterate days, along with Minocin MWF, had a

horrific electrical pain onset, apparently liver related from the

dual abx, and had to stop both.

I have confidence in whey protein, and have also had very good

results for persistent back pain (believed to be

referred pain from the gut) with Kal brand collostrum powder used

sublingually. I believe such as these have inherently beneficial

properties for viral/bacterial related illnesses. The collostrum

may be something that people who have been very sensitive to whey

protein and/or other supplements and medications just may find very

helpful as well.

bg

> " bg "

>

> The idea with whey is to smuggle it past the digestive system by

taking it alone

> on an empty stomach. This is called " passive digestion " and

protects the

> delicate active ingredients from damage by gastric acid. You might

get away with

> adding a small amount of milk but not this cocktail.

>

> Rob

>

> Re: New native (nondenatured) whey

protein product

>

> Caleb, LaRue, All,

>

> The months I took whey protein, I always stirred it into a

> combination of plain yogurt with a tablespoon of liquid flaxseed

oil

> (the Budwig formula) to which I added some fresh fruit in season

and

> some powdered acidophilus, and a few other things. I wasn't aware

> of its taste that way.

>

> My logic in doing this was I felt it all worked synergistically. I

> had been eating the yogurt combo daily for 7 years, so the changes

I

> noticed beginning the whey -- and resulting from its addition -- in

> my opinion were the result of adding it. The science behind the

> Budwig combo is the yogurt (a protein carrier) gets the EFA's (from

> the yogurt) into the cells and can repair them.

>

> (This is similar to " lipid replacement " that we've heard so much

> about from the Detoxx people ( Kane, et al; and more

> recently from Dr. Garth Nicolson in one of his latest articles on

> www.immed.org.)

>

> bg

February 10, 2005

Hi

If I was taking Imuplus, could explain why my cysteine went up so much so that I

got mercury poisoned when I had my fillings removed? On the other hand, if the

initial studies were with Immunocal/Imuplus and they worked, you can't realy say

they don't work, right? You just think non-denatured would work better?

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: rvankonynen

I think the original small study that Dr. Cheney ran was on

Immunocal.

Imuplus, I think, is identical to Imunocal.

As far as I know, the only whey protein products currently on the

market that are truly nondenatured or " native " protein are ImmunoPro

Rx and now RenewPro. The others have been called " undenatured, "

which is really a nonsensical term, since it is not possible

to " undenature " protein once it has been denatured.

February 11, 2005

Hi, Doris.

I do think that it is possible that taking ImuPlus could have raised

your cysteine, if your mercury level had already been high enough to

inhibit the enzyme glutamate cysteine ligase (formerly called gamma

glutamylcysteine synthestase) when you took the ImuPlus, because

taht would have put a partial blockade in one of the pathways for

use of cysteine. If one or both of the other pathways had also been

inhibited, i.e., the pathway through cysteine dioxygenase to make

taurine, and the pathway from cysteine dioxygenase through sulfite

oxidase to make sulfate, then it would be even more likely that

cysteine would rise, because it would essentially " have no place to

go. " A shortage of molybdenum will inhibit sulfite oxidase.

No, I wouldn't say that Immunocal/ImuPlus " don't work. " They do

help to build glutathione. Dr. Cheney's work is evidence for that.

There have also been studies on nonCFS people in Canada that

indicate that Immunocal does help to build glutathione.

Yes, I think that the non-denatured whey protein products are more

potent in building glutathione, because I believe they have more

cysteine present as cysteine per se, and that's the form that the

liver can import readily to use in making glutathione. ImmunoPro

Rx and RenewPro also contain other substances that Immunocal/ImuPlus

do not, because of their differences in processing, and these can

have additional effects beyond the building of glutathione.

Rich

> Hi

> If I was taking Imuplus, could explain why my cysteine went up so

much so that I got mercury poisoned when I had my fillings removed?

On the other hand, if the initial studies were with

Immunocal/Imuplus and they worked, you can't realy say they don't

work, right? You just think non-denatured would work better?

>

> Doris

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: rvankonynen

> I think the original small study that Dr. Cheney ran was on

> Immunocal.

>

> Imuplus, I think, is identical to Imunocal.

>

> As far as I know, the only whey protein products currently on

the

> market that are truly nondenatured or " native " protein are

ImmunoPro

> Rx and now RenewPro. The others have been called " undenatured, "

> which is really a nonsensical term, since it is not possible

> to " undenature " protein once it has been denatured.

>

February 11, 2005

Hi there,

Many thanks to those who have given me info on immunpro rx it's been

very helpful.

One question has occurred to me; in what way are these products

different to colostrum products which I have tried in the past but with

no benefit..does anyone know?

Also, if colostrum hasn't done anything for me, is there any reason to

think that the non-denatured whey products could?

Rosie (Cardiff UK).

Re: New native (nondenatured) whey protein

product