Re: A bunch of emails on B12 including some journal articles

January 16, 2005

Hi Doris,

After reading your message concerning the benefits of high potency

injections of hydroxycobalamin, I feel compelled to write about my own

experience. I was being treated by a famous CFS physician who prescribed

this for me. (It has been several years now, so I cannot recall the precise

dosage, but I do know it was concerned quite potent and that it was

compounded by Wellness Pharmacy. What happened to me was very scarey. As

it turned out, I had high levels of mercury in my body (which this doctor

discovered during testing prior to this little experiment) and when I took

the injected B-12, I became deathly ill. I crashed as I had never crashed

before. The pressure in my head was outrageous. A quick phone call to the

doctor and I was told to stop the B-12. His explanation is that B-12

chelates mercury and that when I took such a strong dose, the mercury got

into my blood, which then could carry it directly where it would do

irreparable damage to my brain. I have still never been as healthy as I was

before that injection.

So, my advice to anyone considering high dosage B-12, especially by

injection (or IV) should first get his/her mercury levels tested.

This doctor said that the mercury is, right now, sitting in fat cells and

that he was going to try to think of a way to chelate the mercury without

injuring my brain. Several years later, he has still never proposed a

method to do this.

A bunch of emails on B12 including some journal

articles

>

> B-12 Injections (10,000 mcg/ml of hydroxycobalamin, 1cc or more daily,

> given subcutaneously or intramuscularly.) This form and dosage of B-12 is

> a

> potent detoxifier, increases energy, may assist with sleep if taken at

> bedtime,

> and provides pain relief for some. When using B-12 as a detoxifier high

> doses

> are needed--at least as many B-12 molecules as there are toxins. It's

> brain specific. And two-thirds of CFS patients have no detectable B-12 in

> their

> brains, even though blood levels are normal. (Research abstract below.)

> B-12 is highly compartmentalized, and so levels could be normal in the

> blood

> but absent in the brain. I believe it is absent because it is being

> coupled

> to

> toxins--neurotoxins, probably xenobiotics--because B-12 couples to

> nitrogen.

>

> Nitrogenous waste molecules in the brain are coupling out the B-12 as fast

> as it's leaking in, and you end up with zippo B-12 in the brain. The

> British used 5 gm infusions of hydroxycobalamin to successfully detox

> people

> with

> cyanide poisoning. (Research abstract below.) Another published study

> (also below) documents the use of up to 26 mg a day of B-12 with great

> benefits,

> and no side effects. At these high doses hydroxycobalamin rather than

> cyanocobalamin must be used to avoid the toxicity of the cyanide in the

> later. To the extent that cyanocobalamin might be a good detoxifier, which

> it isn't, you just trade cyanide for the toxin it removes. I prefer

> hydroxycobalamin, and perhaps methylcobalamin. A few patients have

> reported feeling hyper/jittery or lethargic or have experience acne and

> diarrhea

> when taking the hydroxycobalamin. The dosage should be reduced if this

> occurs.

> I suspect that it's pulling out toxins too fast. This problem with B-12

> appears to generalize to other B-vitamins as well. It's important to

> supplement other B vitamins moderately when taking high dosages of B-12.

> This form of B-12 is available only through a compounding pharmacy and can

> be found locally. If there isn't one near you, the Wellness Pharmacy

> (1-800-227-2627, mail-order) offers 30 1cc injections for around $80.

> Hydroxycobalamin is heat sensitive - refrigerate it. Below are three

> studies documenting either the need for B-12, or the safety & efficacy of

> high

> doses of hydroxycobalamin as a detoxifier.

>>>

> **************************************************

> Cerebral Spinal Fluid Vitamin B-12 Deficiency in CFS

>

> B. Evengard, C-G. Nisson, G.Astrom, G.Lindh, L.Lindqvist, R.Olin,

> P.Eneroth,Department of Infectious Diseases and Unit for Applied

> Biochemistry,

> Clinical Research Centre, Huddinge Hospital, Huddinge, Sweden. This

> research was presented at the 1996 AACFS Conference in San Francisco and

> at

> the

> 1998 AACFS Conference in 1998. (American Association of CFS,

> www.aacfs.org -

> an

> organization for professionals)

>

> OBJECTIVE: To explore blood and cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) levels of

> regulatory and essential compounds in chronique fatigue syndrome.

>

> METHOD: Blood and cerebrospinal fluid was collected at 8:00 and 23:00

> hours from 9 females and 7 males suffering from CFS. Analytes were

> determined by

> radioimmunoassay.

>

> RESULTS: Blood analysis of estradiol, progesterone, testosterone, FSH, LH

> and protactin revealed no abnormalities. Somatostatin and somatomedin in

> serun/plasma were normal in blood. Low but normal serum cortisol levels

> were observed and there seemed to be a mismatch between one individual

> elevated

> neopterine was seen suggesting macrophage activation. Folate was lot in

> four of the the men and somewhat low but normal B-12 levels were

> registered

> in

> blood from all patients. Whereas normal CSF levels of folate were

> obtained,B-12 in cerebrospional fluid was beyond the detection limit (3,7

> pmol/L in

> 10 our of 16 patients.

>

> SUMMARY: It is speculated that B-12 transfer from blood to the brain is

> deranged in these patients and/or that there is an increase B-12

> consumption or destruction inside the brain.

>

> *************************************************************************

> Well Being-Multiple Symptoms/Vitamin B-12

>

> Med Hypotheses MAR 1989:28(3):155-64 8 patients with a variety of

> diagnoses/symptoms, abnormalities on the MMPI and normal serum cobalamin

> (B-12) levels were given injections of hydroxycobalamin interspered with

> injections of sterile water. Those feeling better on B-12 injections were

> tried on futher injections to determine the amount of B-12 that maximized

> their sense of well-being. Patients who were seriously ill often showed

> great improvement with B-12 but failed to respond to placebo. A few

> patients had to get up to 9 mg/day tomaximize improvement. One patient

> with

> brain

> damage could not work unless he was given 26 mg/day. Some preferred

> injections at h.s. (bedtime) because it assisted with sleep. MMPI scores

> were normalized or improved in patients whose B-12 levels were given as a

> result of injections.

>>>

> **************************************************************************

>

> Relation of Blood Cyanide to Plasma Cyanocobalamin Concentration After a

> Fixed Dose of Hydroxocobalamin in Cyanide Poisoning

>>>

> P Houeto, JR Hoffman, M Imbert, P Levillain, FJ Baud ; Hopital Fernand

> Widal, Paris; Lancet 1995 346: 605-08

>>>

> Summary: Hydroxocobalamin combines with cyanide to form cyanocobalamin. We

> hypothesized that the amount of cyanocobalamin formed after a fixed dose

> of

> hydroxoycobalamin given for cyanide poisoning would correlate with initial

> blood cyanide concentration. We determined blood cyanide concentration in

> 12 patients exposed to residential fires, and compared this with markers

> of

> the amount of cyanocobalamin formed after treatment with 5 gm intravenous

> hydroxocobalamin. All relationships were highly correlated for the whole

> group, and there appeared to be an almost linear relationship for the 9

> patients with initial cyanide concentration below 40 umol/L. Above this

> concentration, no further cyanocobalamin was formed from a single 5 gm

> dose of hydroxocobalamin. In one patient with initial blood cyanide

> concentration approximately doubled after a second 5 gm dose of

> hydroxocobalamin. 5 gms

> of hydroxocobalamin appears capable of binding all available cyanide ions

> for

> blood cyanide concentrations up to about 40 umol/ L. Beyond this, more

> hydroxocobalamin must be given for remaining cyanide ions to be bound.

> This information will allow clinicians to use rapidly measurable plasma

> cyanocobalamin concentrations to gauge severity of exposure and evaluate

> adequacy of treatment.----------

>>>

> Judith,

> The reason the hydroxy- form of B12 is so effective, according to

> Cheney's 1999 Dallas/Fort Worth videotaped lecture, [kudos to Carol

> Sieverling!] is that when hydroxy-b12 crosses the blood-brain-barrier,

> the hydroxyl group uncouples very easily from the cobalamine, allowing

> toxins to efficiently bind where the hydroxyl group used to be. The

> newly coupled toxin+cobalamine is then moved out of the brain and easily

> excreted via the urine (and to a lesser extent via skin and feces).

> While the methyl- form of b12 crosses more easily into the brain, if I

> recall correctly, it doesn't uncouple as readily as the hydroxy- form

> does. That is, the methyl group doesn't uncouple from the cobalamine as

> easily as the hydroxyl group does and consequently, it does not bind and

> eliminate toxins as efficiently (as hydroxy-b12).

> However from an entirely different point of view, there are probably

> unique benefits to the brain deriving from those uncoupled methyl

> groups, for 'methyl donors' like SAMe and Trimethyl Glycine (TMG) are

> known to have beneficial effects on neurotransmitter production (esp.

> dopamine and norepinephrine) and on the liver, to name just two benefits

> of increasing methyl group availability.

> The bottom line, though, is that Cheney recommends daily high dose

> hydroxy-b12 specifically for its brain-detoxifying property, as CFIDS/ME

> is very probably a disorder in which brain injury (likely due, in part,

> to the buildup of toxins) plays a critical role.

> From my perspective then, methyl-b12 is not a substitute for

> hydroxy-b12. But the reverse is also true; so it makes sense to use both

> for optimal benefits--i.e., if one can afford it! It's similar to using

> both Immunepro and Immunocal so you can obtain bionic-human status!

> Better... Stronger... Faster...

> Hud

>>>

> (MS) patients seem to be still on Methyl, and some PWC's report success

> with it. Others say it doesn't work for them.

> E.

>>>

>>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

January 16, 2005

,

I'm sorry this happened to you.

I think that what happened is that the mercury in your body was

primarily present as mercuric ion (Hg++). It is known that B12 is

the only substance in biological systems that can methylate mercuric

mercury. Once mercury is in the form of methyl mercury, it can

readily cross the blood-brain barrier. Methylation is different

from chelation.

Rich

> Hi Doris,

>

> After reading your message concerning the benefits of high potency

> injections of hydroxycobalamin, I feel compelled to write about my

own

> experience. I was being treated by a famous CFS physician who

prescribed

> this for me. (It has been several years now, so I cannot recall

the precise

> dosage, but I do know it was concerned quite potent and that it

was

> compounded by Wellness Pharmacy. What happened to me was very

scarey. As

> it turned out, I had high levels of mercury in my body (which this

doctor

> discovered during testing prior to this little experiment) and

when I took

> the injected B-12, I became deathly ill. I crashed as I had never

crashed

> before. The pressure in my head was outrageous. A quick phone

call to the

> doctor and I was told to stop the B-12. His explanation is that B-

12

> chelates mercury and that when I took such a strong dose, the

mercury got

> into my blood, which then could carry it directly where it would

do

> irreparable damage to my brain. I have still never been as

healthy as I was

> before that injection.

>

> So, my advice to anyone considering high dosage B-12, especially

by

> injection (or IV) should first get his/her mercury levels tested.

>

> This doctor said that the mercury is, right now, sitting in fat

cells and

> that he was going to try to think of a way to chelate the mercury

without

> injuring my brain. Several years later, he has still never

proposed a

> method to do this.

>

January 17, 2005

I know that some doctors believe this. Huggins, for example, is a mercury

dentist who has published a lot and says exactly what you are saying. However,

I had high levels of mercury and the B12 didn't hurt me at all, only made me

better and better. If you start to look at the research on this, you find that

nobody really knows what is going on. It is interesting to hear from a person

like you with real experience because up until now I have only heard it in

theory. But obviously there is more going on than what is known, when one

person gets much better and another person gets much worse. My advice for

someone would probably be to start small, and see what happens. If you feel

worse instead of better, I wouldn't continue. I started with a much lower

dosage and worked my way up over a course of a few months. Maybe one big shot

all at once caused you to detox faster than your body could handle it. I don't

know. All I know is like most of these treatments it varies from person to

person. It is best that people know all sides and experiment. You could say it

is better to be safe than sorry, but I would hate for someone to have bypassed

the improvement I got because they were afraid.

Doris

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