Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Hi Rich What would the symptoms of Cysteine toxicity be. I have taken whey in the past and it has given me a herxheimers type reaction (fatigue, detox feelings, brain fog) I have amalgams and wondered if this feeling could infact be cysteine toxicity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Hi, . That's a very good question. I wish I had a definitive answer, but I don't. The only thing I can suggest is getting the level of cysteine in the blood measured when taking the undenatured whey protein. The mechanisms of cysteine toxicity are not totally agreed upon. However, the one with the best experimental evidence in the literature is that cysteine self-oxidizes, i.e. it reacts with molecular oxygen. In the process of doing this, it produces oxidizing free radicals. Since glutathione is at the basis of our antioxidant system, if this occurred, I think it would tend to use up more glutathione. Since many of the symptoms of CFS, in my opinion, are due to depleted glutathione, I suspect that elevated cysteine could exacerbate CFS symptoms. Thus, it might be very difficult to tell the difference between cysteine toxicity and a Herxheimer reaction from the symptoms. I also suggest getting the mercury level measured, using both a hair analysis from Doctor's Data labs and a urine test similar to that offered by the King lab in Ohio, which involves a DMSA challenge followed by urine collection for several hours. If the mercury is elevated, then I think it is wise to carefully chelate it before attempting to build glutathione from whey protein. I think that it would be O.K. to use methods that put glutathione per se directly in the blood, though, because that would help to detox the mercury without raising the cysteine level. I'm talking here about methods such as I.V., I.M., sublingual troches, suppositories, or aerosolized glutathione. Rich > Hi Rich > > What would the symptoms of Cysteine toxicity be. I have taken whey in the > past and it has given me a herxheimers type reaction (fatigue, detox > feelings, brain fog) I have amalgams and wondered if this feeling could > infact be cysteine toxicity? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Hi, I spent (wasted?) a lot of time with all this several years ago. At the Great Smokies lab I had an elevated rate of glutathione conjugation (which to me, would suggest I do NOT have a blockage of glutathione production mechanisms). This is also consistent with having no metal in my mouth. They also gave values for glutathione and mine was lowish (barely normal range). Rich has not mentioned this, so maybe their values are not accurate. Anyway, this would be consistent with a good ability to make glutathione, but a high demand (oxidative stress). The confusing thing was that my cysteine was off the chart high, presumably toxic. This was confusing since there did not appear to be a blockage in conjugation. I was not taking whey at the time, but had months earlier. I was experiencing lots of muscle wasting--so maybe this was the source? Small doses of Immunepro made me herx and/or toxic. Since then, I started whey again, just because I had stalled out on my antibiotic and other tx. This time with Immunplex. I felt toxic on it at first but was able to build up the dose considerably with time, so I felt it was not cysteine toxicity. But I wasn't really feeling better, so I went back to immunepro recently and am having the same nasty reactions I had several years ago (though I am generally somewhat better in most ways, worse in a few) on just 1/4 tsp. I get this reaction after 3-4 days. I don't really know what the moral of this story is, but this question with cysteine has never been resolved for me, and in my case, the tests did not really reveal anything understandable to me. Kell > > Hi Rich > > > > What would the symptoms of Cysteine toxicity be. I have taken > whey in the > > past and it has given me a herxheimers type reaction (fatigue, > detox > > feelings, brain fog) I have amalgams and wondered if this feeling > could > > infact be cysteine toxicity? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Kell, I agree that these test results and experiences with the whey supplements together are pretty confusing. I guess I would put more credence in your experiences with the supplements than in the tests, given the conflicting results. Based on the fact that you were able to build up your whey protein dosage, I suspect that you were herxing rather than experiencing cysteine toxicity. Given this, I think the herxing means that you were low in glutathione, since a normal, healthy person with a normal glutathione level does not experience any symptoms from a whey protein supplement. I don't know what to say about the test results. I think it can be difficult to evaluate cysteine and reduced glutathione properly, because they tend to oxidize if they are in contact with the atmosphere. Maybe there was a problem with the measurements. Rich > > Hi, I spent (wasted?) a lot of time with all this several years ago. > At the Great Smokies lab I had an elevated rate of glutathione > conjugation (which to me, would suggest I do NOT have a blockage of > glutathione production mechanisms). This is also consistent with > having no metal in my mouth. > > They also gave values for glutathione and mine was lowish (barely > normal range). Rich has not mentioned this, so maybe their values > are not accurate. Anyway, this would be consistent with a good > ability to make glutathione, but a high demand (oxidative stress). > > The confusing thing was that my cysteine was off the chart high, > presumably toxic. This was confusing since there did not appear to > be a blockage in conjugation. I was not taking whey at the time, but > had months earlier. I was experiencing lots of muscle wasting--so > maybe this was the source? Small doses of Immunepro made me herx > and/or toxic. > > Since then, I started whey again, just because I had stalled out on > my antibiotic and other tx. This time with Immunplex. I felt toxic > on it at first but was able to build up the dose considerably with > time, so I felt it was not cysteine toxicity. But I wasn't really > feeling better, so I went back to immunepro recently and am having > the same nasty reactions I had several years ago (though I am > generally somewhat better in most ways, worse in a few) on just 1/4 > tsp. I get this reaction after 3-4 days. > > I don't really know what the moral of this story is, but this > question with cysteine has never been resolved for me, and in my > case, the tests did not really reveal anything understandable to me. > > Kell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Will, Glutathione conjugation " means that a glutathione molecule binds to another molecule or ion. Usually this refers to glutathione binding to a toxin in order to make it more water-soluble, so it can be carried out of the body more easily. This is one of the pathways for Phase II detoxication. Glutathione conjugates with heavy metals such as mercury and lead, as well as with organophosphate pesticide residues and other toxic substances. Rich > > For example, what is " glutathione conjugation " ? I did a Google > search and the articles I found were incomprehensible to me. > > Can someone explain to me in standard English what it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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