Re: Methylation survey for CFS.

[Guest guest]

Hi Blake,

Found this site very helpful. Thanks.

I am wondering if anyone also shares my thoughts on this list so I am writing

this through list.

I have been ill for 15 years. When I went through your list I saw that had many

of the under methylation symptoms during first 10 years of my illness and

symptoms of over methylation during the last 5 years.O also have some of the

signs of Pylorulia. (Heard this for the first time,will have to check that)

So,that again, to me, supports the theory saying that illness has different

stages.

I wonder what sleep aid is advised for people with high methylation if

serotonine is high there?

Would methylation be effected by adrenal or pituitary functioning? I wonder what

are the effects of high and low cortisol on this ?

Thanks.

Nil

Methylation survey for CFS.

Dear list,

I have been wondering if genetic tendencies of methylation may

predispose to CFS. Both under and over methylation have possible

relationships with CFS:

-Under-methylated individuals have lower synthesis of glutathione,

cysteine, other aspects of sulfur chemistry, serotonin, dopamine,

norepinephrine and higher histamine.

-Over-methylation often have food/chemical sensitivities and higher

serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine

Methylation is also involved in genetic expression.

What I would like list members to do is to go to the following page and

see the first table called 'Symptoms/Signs of methylation imbalances'.

Go through the table, carefully, and tell me how many you score from the

under-methylated column and how many from the over-methylation column.

[Guest guest]

What does it mean if I have equal numbers in both columns? I scored as

having 20 in both columns. I had to answer positive to many things in both

columns. For example, I have lots of allergies AND I have lots of food and

chemical sensitivities. And some things I answered positive in one column,

some things positive in the other. For example, I am very artistic and I am

also very academic and good in science. There were only a couple things that

were in the middle column.

On the supplements issue towards the bottom, there are supplements from both

columns that I have major problems with, and supplements from both columns

that I greatly benefit from. As an example, I don't tolerate DMAE or choline

at all. I only tolerate inositol in very low amounts. And I also don't

tolerate St. 's Wort, tyrosine, and phenylalanine. I don't tolerate

calcium or B6, but I benefit from folate. What I benefit from is pretty much

equally mixed. TMG and DMG do absolutely nothing for me. SAM-e does tons for

me.

lindaj@...

[Guest guest]

Thanks Blake,

People with over-methylation do often have insomnia. Elevated

norepinephrine is frequently observed in over-methylation and can cause

insomnia.

I have extreme insomnia lately. It is not like my previous insomnia

experiences. I lately started to think if I am developing some type of mania. I

don't sleep whole night and I don't feel more exhausted than my normal days. My

usual sleep supplements don't help.I don't feel anxious. Just alert. That is

really strange. I am not sure yet if I am over methylated yet even though many

of the symptoms fit(I think I have low serotonine) but I Think I have high

norepinephrine at this point for some reason.

If this is the case it will respond to folate/B12/B3 therapy.

It is said that choline will benefit one of the types and inositol the other.

My B vitamins contain both. So,that is little stressing.Choline in my

supplements may be hurting me. Lab check is needed.

However there is about 20 different possible causes of insomnia, many of

which are common in CFS.

That is right. I am trying to find out the reason. I have been using Rhodiola

since a year time. Even though I have given some breaks I am suspecting that

long term usage might have altered my brain chemistry.I have stopped it today

and we will see if that helps.

By the way I must say that I think I was born as under methylated person I

think,if that is of some interest to you. I had some of the related

symptoms,long before my CFS developed.I have developed this over methylated

symptoms at this late stages of my illness.And I also think my father was in

that group,too.

I don't know if methylation is affected by pituitary or adrenal

functioning, however methylation many influence HPA-axis function.

Monoamines (serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine) help regulated the

HPA-axis, so there may be a positive correlation between methylation and

HPA-axis function. The symptoms of subclinical adrenal insufficiency

(see Dr. Bruce Rind's website) do have some strinking similarities with

under-methylation.

Thanks

Nil

[Guest guest]

Thanks Nil,

Dr. Reading of Australia (who has treated over 2000 CFS cases)

reports pyroluria is common.

People with over-methylation do often have insomnia. Elevated

norepinephrine is frequently observed in over-methylation and can cause

insomnia. If this is the case it will respond to folate/B12/B3 therapy.

However there is about 20 different possible causes of insomnia, many of

which are common in CFS.

I don't know if methylation is affacted by pituitary or adrenal

functioning, however methylation many influence HPA-axis function.

Monoamines (serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine) help regulated the

HPA-axis, so there may be a positive correlation between methylation and

HPA-axis function. The symptoms of subclinical adrenal insufficiency

(see Dr. Bruce Rind's website) do have some strinking similarities with

under-methylation.

Regards, blake graham

Yldyz wrote:

>Hi Blake,

>

>Found this site very helpful. Thanks.

>

>I am wondering if anyone also shares my thoughts on this list so I am writing

this through list.

>

>I have been ill for 15 years. When I went through your list I saw that had many

of the under methylation symptoms during first 10 years of my illness and

symptoms of over methylation during the last 5 years.O also have some of the

signs of Pylorulia. (Heard this for the first time,will have to check that)

>

>So,that again, to me, supports the theory saying that illness has different

stages.

>

>I wonder what sleep aid is advised for people with high methylation if

serotonine is high there?

>

>Would methylation be effected by adrenal or pituitary functioning? I wonder

what are the effects of high and low cortisol on this ?

>

>Thanks.

>Nil

> Methylation survey for CFS.

>

>

> Dear list,

>

> I have been wondering if genetic tendencies of methylation may

> predispose to CFS. Both under and over methylation have possible

> relationships with CFS:

> -Under-methylated individuals have lower synthesis of glutathione,

> cysteine, other aspects of sulfur chemistry, serotonin, dopamine,

> norepinephrine and higher histamine.

> -Over-methylation often have food/chemical sensitivities and higher

> serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine

>

> Methylation is also involved in genetic expression.

>

> What I would like list members to do is to go to the following page and

> see the first table called 'Symptoms/Signs of methylation imbalances'.

> Go through the table, carefully, and tell me how many you score from the

> under-methylated column and how many from the over-methylation column.

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Not everyone will have a methylation disorder but everyone will have

some of the signs/symptoms. Testing through signs and symptoms has

severe limitations as there is so many influences on each factor. A

diagnosis is obvious in some people, but blood tests are required in

many cases.

Again intolerance to supplements can be caused by many factors,

including diet. Response to SAMe is fairly specific to methylation as it

is the major methyl donor in the body. If you benefit from SAMe you are

more likely under-methylated, although you don't have to be clinically

under-methylated to possibly benefit.

Regards, Blake

wrote:

>What does it mean if I have equal numbers in both columns? I scored as

>having 20 in both columns. I had to answer positive to many things in both

>columns. For example, I have lots of allergies AND I have lots of food and

>chemical sensitivities. And some things I answered positive in one column,

>some things positive in the other. For example, I am very artistic and I am

>also very academic and good in science. There were only a couple things that

>were in the middle column.

>

>On the supplements issue towards the bottom, there are supplements from both

>columns that I have major problems with, and supplements from both columns

>that I greatly benefit from. As an example, I don't tolerate DMAE or choline

>at all. I only tolerate inositol in very low amounts. And I also don't

>tolerate St. 's Wort, tyrosine, and phenylalanine. I don't tolerate

>calcium or B6, but I benefit from folate. What I benefit from is pretty much

>equally mixed. TMG and DMG do absolutely nothing for me. SAM-e does tons for

>me.

>

>

>lindaj@...

>

[Guest guest]

Blake,

I have another question in mind.If TMG and DMg are contra indicated for the

over-methylated than would compounds like magnesium glycinate also be contra

indicated because of the glycine part of the molecule?

Thanks Nil

Re: Methylation survey for CFS.

Thanks Nil,

Dr. Reading of Australia (who has treated over 2000 CFS cases)

reports pyroluria is common.

[Guest guest]

Blake,

I have another question regarding this. It is not mentioned what type of B12

should be used at the site. AFAIK methylcobalamin also contributes to

methylation. Thinking that TMG and DMG are contraindicated for over-methylated

people I am wondering if methylcobalamin is also not good?

What do you think?

Nil

Methylation survey for CFS.

>

>

> Dear list,

>

> I have been wondering if genetic tendencies of methylation may

> predispose to CFS. Both under and over methylation have possible

> relationships with CFS:

> -Under-methylated individuals have lower synthesis of glutathione,

> cysteine, other aspects of sulfur chemistry, serotonin, dopamine,

> norepinephrine and higher histamine.

> -Over-methylation often have food/chemical sensitivities and higher

> serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine

>

> Methylation is also involved in genetic expression.

>

> What I would like list members to do is to go to the following page and

> see the first table called 'Symptoms/Signs of methylation imbalances'.

> Go through the table, carefully, and tell me how many you score from the

> under-methylated column and how many from the over-methylation column.

>

>

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

My apologies, when I started this thread I wrote my email address wrong.

It should be :

blake@...

Regards, Blake

[Guest guest]

Uh, this isn't entirely true. Glycine is used in the NMDA receptors, (I

can't remember the exact chemical reaction) but it can act as a stimulant in

some people. I have problems with magnesium glycinate, because it triggers

heart arrhythmia's, panic attacks, and other autonomic dysfunction problems

in me, as though it is stimulating NMDA receptors. Why I react this way to

it, I have no idea, because no other forms of magnesium affect me this way,

and in fact, I greatly benefit from magnesium, especially orotate form. I

haven't heard too many stories of others who react to magnesium glycinate

this way. So it's not a common reaction. But it is possible.

lindaj@...

Re: Methylation survey for CFS.

>I have not considered this before. It thing it would be fine, afterall

> glycine is needed for amny molecules including glutathione. Glycine also

> acts as an inhibitory neuotransmitter.

>

> Regards, Blake

>

> Yldyz wrote:

>

>>Blake,

>>

>>I have another question in mind.If TMG and DMg are contra indicated for

>>the over-methylated than would compounds like magnesium glycinate also be

>>contra indicated because of the glycine part of the molecule?

>>

>>Thanks Nil

>>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, I was a 3 on one side and 2 on the other, most in the middle. That right

there tells you how different we CFS'ers are!

Doris

----- Original Message -----

What does it mean if I have equal numbers in both columns? I scored as

having 20 in both columns. I had to answer positive to many things in both

columns. For example, I have lots of allergies AND I have lots of food and

chemical sensitivities. And some things I answered positive in one column,

some things positive in the other. For example, I am very artistic and I am

also very academic and good in science. There were only a couple things that

were in the middle column.

[Guest guest]

I wonder how common this is. I get this about one night every month or two.

Wide awake all night and not tired the next day. I take large amounts of B12

and it doesn't prevent it. I assumed it was something triggering the adrenals.

Doris

----- Original Message -----

I have extreme insomnia lately. It is not like my previous insomnia

experiences. I lately started to think if I am developing some type of mania. I

don't sleep whole night and I don't feel more exhausted than my normal days. My

usual sleep supplements don't help.I don't feel anxious. Just alert.

[Guest guest]

I have not considered this before. It thing it would be fine, afterall

glycine is needed for amny molecules including glutathione. Glycine also

acts as an inhibitory neuotransmitter.

Regards, Blake

Yldyz wrote:

>Blake,

>

>I have another question in mind.If TMG and DMg are contra indicated for the

over-methylated than would compounds like magnesium glycinate also be contra

indicated because of the glycine part of the molecule?

>

>Thanks Nil

>

[Guest guest]

SAMe is the major methyl donor in the body, it is unknown to what degree

methyl groups from methylcobalamin contribute to total methylation.

Hydroxycobalamin is generally the B12 of choice for CFS. Methylcobalamin

is probably fine as most CFS cases have depleted B12 in the CSF,

methylcobalamin is the form which is active here.

Regards, Blake

Yldyz wrote:

>Blake,

>

>I have another question regarding this. It is not mentioned what type of B12

should be used at the site. AFAIK methylcobalamin also contributes to

methylation. Thinking that TMG and DMG are contraindicated for over-methylated

people I am wondering if methylcobalamin is also not good?

>What do you think?

>Nil

>

[Guest guest]

Doris,

I think it is common to have insomnia due to high cortisol and I have

experienced it for many years.What I have at this point is something different.

Cortisol lowering agents don't help it.I get double, triple dosage and no

change.I don't feel anxious at all.I feel alert but calm. I sometimes can feel

very sleepy but just can not go to sleep and lie in the bed calmly .That is

really different than what I had before.My usual sleep aids don't help. I

sometimes use prescribed sleep meds but I have to get them at high

dosage.Strange thing is that I don't feel any more tired than my usual days

after staying up whole night. I get a very short sleep next day and that is

all.I can not believe how my body is handling this. I am living like that for

the last 7 or 8 months.I would normally crash after a sleepless night. I don't.I

also have little boosted self esteem,feel more joyful during the day.I think

these symptoms are similar to mania symptoms. I also found out that these could

be excess norepinephrine symptoms.Trying to find out why this happened. This

could be because of my mercury poisoning. I had finished removing all of my

amalgam fillings this year it could be that body dumped out mercury. My detox

organs could not excrete it and it was redistributed.It could also be due to

some of the supplements I was using lately. Rhodiola,Ca 2 aep or magnesium

glycinate.Have stopped or decreased them all lately and will see what happens.

Thanks

Nil

Re: Methylation survey for CFS.

I wonder how common this is. I get this about one night every month or two.

Wide awake all night and not tired the next day. I take large amounts of B12

and it doesn't prevent it. I assumed it was something triggering the adrenals.

[Guest guest]

Hi

Yes, I totally understand. I thought I explained, sorry I didn't. Everything I

feel is like you describe. Except for me it is only once in a while, it sounds

like you are having it every night now. I have no idea why it happens. My

fillings have been out for years now and my mercury level is not bad, but maybe

something causes it to get stirred up once in a while? Does this " up all night

and not tired the next day " thing happen to any of the rest of you?

What is a cortisol lower agent by the way?

Doris

----- Original Message -----

I think it is common to have insomnia due to high cortisol and I have

experienced it for many years.What I have at this point is something different.

Cortisol lowering agents don't help it.I get double, triple dosage and no

change.I don't feel anxious at all.I feel alert but calm. I sometimes can feel

very sleepy but just can not go to sleep and lie in the bed calmly .That is

really different than what I had before.My usual sleep aids don't help.