Re: rivotril/klonopin withdrawal

[Guest guest]

Hi Sal,

I was able to withdraw from klonopin. I was taking 0.5 mg at night

for around 18 months. I decided to withdraw from it. I did it very

very slow and took me 4 months to completely withdraw.

I reduced the dosage to 3/4 of 0.5 mg for 3 weeeks and then 1/2 and

then 1/4 and then 1/5 etc etc and then I was taking 1/10th of 0.5 mg

every two days. I did feel very awful on some days because of the

withdrawal. I was using it for sleep and so I had to increase my

melatonin and take other things for sleep like doxepin.

I just wanted to share my experience with you. I dont feel competent

enough to give you advice as withdrawal symptoms are so

individualistic.

But if it were me and if I am using it for sleep, I might substitute

some other supplement for the timebeing and see how I feel in another

3 days. Also I might add a tiny bit of klonopin (1/10th of the amt I

was taking) and see if that helps. Then I might slowly get off of

that amount.

take care and All the Best,

Gayu.

>

> Hi everyone

>

> I wondered if any of u have had any experience coming off this

drug?

> I've been cutting down for a number of months. It was difficult

but

> I survived it, but the final withdrawal has seen me slump into a

> major physical relapse with very old M.E. symptoms flaring up in

> quite a dramatic, and certainly unexpected fashion. I am feeling

> pretty scared by this but am not sure whether I just need to stick

it

> out. It's been 9 days now. Any experience or tips would be much

> appreciated.

>

> Thanks

> Sal

[Guest guest]

Sal:

I was taking .50mg xanax for about 10 years. I became seriously ill about 4

years ago, now have chronic fatigue, etc. I tried to ween off the xanax and

it was truly hell. The only thing I found to help me completely get off

the xanax was to take 10mg amitryptaline (elavil) for sleep. This helped

with going to sleep and helped to keep me calm, but it did not significanly

help my general illness. I've now been off xanax for almost two years now,

and feel it was a good idea to get off. I am not well yet, but I am

improved. The road is a hard one, but worth it. Check out

www.benzo.org.uk.

K

rivotril/klonopin withdrawal

>

>

> Hi everyone

>

> I wondered if any of u have had any experience coming off this drug?

> I've been cutting down for a number of months. It was difficult but

> I survived it, but the final withdrawal has seen me slump into a

> major physical relapse with very old M.E. symptoms flaring up in

> quite a dramatic, and certainly unexpected fashion. I am feeling

> pretty scared by this but am not sure whether I just need to stick it

> out. It's been 9 days now. Any experience or tips would be much

> appreciated.

>

> Thanks

> Sal

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

hi Sal -

> I wondered if any of u have had any experience coming off this drug?

> I've been cutting down for a number of months. It was difficult but

> I survived it, but the final withdrawal has seen me slump into a

> major physical relapse with very old M.E. symptoms flaring up in

> quite a dramatic, and certainly unexpected fashion.

is there some specific reason that you're trying to stop taking this drug?

According to Cheney, it's neuroprotective, and I don't believe its possible to

get well if you can't get a decent night's sleep. Cheney also says that once

your brain doesn't need the drug that its fairly easy to stop it. Considering

how badly you crashed, your brain may still need it, and it may not be worth the

price you're paying.

At some point, years back, I got indignant about becoming " addicted " to this

drug because of my illness and tried to stop and got dreadfully sick. At that

point, I decided I didn't care if I was an addict for the rest of my life if

klonopin is what it took for me to function. From other conversations I've had

with PWC's, I'm not the only one that feels this way!!

FWIW, I've been on the same dose for years, never really had to adjust it upward

for it to keep working.

Judith G

[Guest guest]

---

> is there some specific reason that you're trying to stop taking

this drug

Hi Judith

Well I feel very ambibalent about it really. I read Cheney's stuff

and felt it was a drug worth trying both for the neuroprotection and

to help with sleep. I went against the wishes of my own consultant

who isn't convinced by Cheney's stuff and believes klonopin's just an

addictive benzo which will just add to the load on the liver and

cause me grief when I want to come off it.

I've been on it nearly 2 years now and I find it difficult to say

whether it's helped me or not. My sleep is still incredibly patchy

and my symptoms come and go as always. I felt that there wasn't

enough evidence of benefit to justify stayin on it, but of course if

Cheney's theory is right it may have been helping me in ways that are

difficult to see, because without it I'm struggling a hell of a lot.

But it remains to be seen whether that's just a natural part of the

withdrawal process or whether I need the drug...perhaps I should give

it a while longer with the option of returning to the drug if it

becomes clear that my symptoms aren't due to withdrawal alone..

BW

Sal

[Guest guest]

Thanks to everyone who replied to my thread on klonopin - the

benzo.org.uk was very helpful reading.

Thanks also to Gayu and K for sharing your own experiences with me -

it's good to know that people have been able to get off it if they

want to. I guess the jury's still out on this one for me. I spoke

to my GP about it today - she said that whether u have M.E. or not,

withdrawal from it is usually difficult and can take up to several

weeks.

BW

Sal

[Guest guest]

I wondered if any of u have had any experience coming off this drug?

Hi Sal

It might be worth contacting CITA <http://www.backtolife.uk.com/> they may

have come across someone with similar kidney symptoms on withdrawal.

Regards

Jim

[Guest guest]

I agree w/ Cheney that the benzos are neuroprotective--at least in

lyme, fibromylagia, maybe CFS.

>

> ---

> > is there some specific reason that you're trying to stop taking

> this drug

>

> Hi Judith

>

> Well I feel very ambibalent about it really. I read Cheney's stuff

> and felt it was a drug worth trying both for the neuroprotection

and

> to help with sleep. I went against the wishes of my own consultant

> who isn't convinced by Cheney's stuff and believes klonopin's just

an

> addictive benzo which will just add to the load on the liver and

> cause me grief when I want to come off it.

>

> I've been on it nearly 2 years now and I find it difficult to say

> whether it's helped me or not. My sleep is still incredibly patchy

> and my symptoms come and go as always. I felt that there wasn't

> enough evidence of benefit to justify stayin on it, but of course

if

> Cheney's theory is right it may have been helping me in ways that

are

> difficult to see, because without it I'm struggling a hell of a

lot.

> But it remains to be seen whether that's just a natural part of the

> withdrawal process or whether I need the drug...perhaps I should

give

> it a while longer with the option of returning to the drug if it

> becomes clear that my symptoms aren't due to withdrawal alone..

>

> BW

> Sal

[Guest guest]

Sal:

I do believe everyone's experience is different, and they do emphasize that

fact on benzo.org.uk.

I struggled for a LONG TIME wondering, like you, if I really needed to get

off xanax, or if I really needed it. No doubt it helped in the immediate

moment, but for me, I believe now, after two years off, I'm better of

without it. But again, it was a very difficult road. Sounds like you have

a good doctor to help with your decisions. Best to you.

K

Re: rivotril/klonopin withdrawal

>

>

> Thanks to everyone who replied to my thread on klonopin - the

> benzo.org.uk was very helpful reading.

>

> Thanks also to Gayu and K for sharing your own experiences with me -

> it's good to know that people have been able to get off it if they

> want to. I guess the jury's still out on this one for me. I spoke

> to my GP about it today - she said that whether u have M.E. or not,

> withdrawal from it is usually difficult and can take up to several

> weeks.

>

> BW

> Sal

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

Klonopin is definitely hard to come off. I am not sure if a few months is

enough time. And of course we started taking it for a reason so maybe you are

getting worse because it was helping you. I heard someone used a drug couselor

type perpson who are knowledgeable about withdrawls. Maybe you can find someone

like that.

Doris

----- Original Message -----

I wondered if any of u have had any experience coming off this drug?

I've been cutting down for a number of months. It was difficult but

I survived it, but the final withdrawal has seen me slump into a

major physical relapse with very old M.E. symptoms flaring up in

quite a dramatic, and certainly unexpected fashion. I am feeling

pretty scared by this but am not sure whether I just need to stick it

out. It's been 9 days now. Any experience or tips would be much

appreciated.

[Guest guest]

Ditto, it's a long haul for some..

Re: rivotril/klonopin withdrawal

>

> Hi

> Klonopin is definitely hard to come off. I am not sure if a few months is

enough time. And of course we started taking it for a reason so maybe you

are getting worse because it was helping you. I heard someone used a drug

couselor type perpson who are knowledgeable about withdrawls. Maybe you can

find someone like that.

> Doris

> ----- Original Message -----

> I wondered if any of u have had any experience coming off this drug?

> I've been cutting down for a number of months. It was difficult but

> I survived it, but the final withdrawal has seen me slump into a

> major physical relapse with very old M.E. symptoms flaring up in

> quite a dramatic, and certainly unexpected fashion. I am feeling

> pretty scared by this but am not sure whether I just need to stick it

> out. It's been 9 days now. Any experience or tips would be much

> appreciated.

>

>

[Guest guest]

hi i was on ativan which i think is the short acting benziodiazepam family

as klonipin..it took me over three months to get off of it as

physicolically addivitve and my md let me 1x a week lower my dose

slightly...at the same time i added gaba( amion acid to help calm my brain

and sleep) it was hard weaning off time wise and now am addicted to

sleeping pills sigh ... from that experiacce i would never ever take any

medication in that family but many other cfids paitents do well on them and

it helps them

maybeu can find a pharmcology md expert to help u or the drug comapany that

makes it or talk with the pharmacist where u purchased it from ... sorry to

hear how bad it has left u ...tealk

> [Original Message]

> From: szyp <szyp@...>

> < >

> Date: 10/9/2004 9:09:38 PM

> Subject: Re: rivotril/klonopin withdrawal

>

>

> Ditto, it's a long haul for some..

>

> Re: rivotril/klonopin withdrawal

>

>

> >

> > Hi

> > Klonopin is definitely hard to come off. I am not sure if a few months

is

> enough time. And of course we started taking it for a reason so maybe you

> are getting worse because it was helping you. I heard someone used a drug

> couselor type perpson who are knowledgeable about withdrawls. Maybe you

can

> find someone like that.

> > Doris

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > I wondered if any of u have had any experience coming off this drug?

> > I've been cutting down for a number of months. It was difficult but

> > I survived it, but the final withdrawal has seen me slump into a

> > major physical relapse with very old M.E. symptoms flaring up in

> > quite a dramatic, and certainly unexpected fashion. I am feeling

> > pretty scared by this but am not sure whether I just need to stick it

> > out. It's been 9 days now. Any experience or tips would be much

> > appreciated.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> It might be worth contacting CITA <http://www.backtolife.uk.com/> they may

> have come across someone with similar kidney symptoms on withdrawal.

>

Hi Jim

Thanks for posting this site - I rang the co-ordinator, and she told me that

rivotril was the hardest benzo to come off in her experience and that she

would not have done it in the way I had. She recommends going back on it at a

really small dose whilst taking noni juice which will help detox the drug whilst

its in my system. It should then be much easier to make the final withdrawal.

I'm not sure what to do really cos I've been free of it for 2 weeks now, but

she said it can take months to feel better, and I certainly still feel very

poorly.

Just for others information, the site has cd's and books on tranq and

anti-depressant withdrawal and self-help cd's.

Sal

[Guest guest]

> at the same time i added gaba( amion acid to help calm my brain

> and sleep)

Hiya

Do u think u can become addicted to gaba? Today I started taking this

supplement called Chill which has gamma amino butyric acid, Ltaurine, hops and

passion flower. My brain certainly feels better already, but I don't know if

I'm

just setting myself up for more addiction problems, even though its all natural

ingredients.

Sal

[Guest guest]

hi sal , i didnt become addicted to the gaba but i remember i kept

changhing the doseage of it and finally after several months to a year(s)

?? felt like it wasnt helping ..think i was limited to 5000 mg /day by

alternative person : guessing was years ago.. i now use magnesium glycinate

at bedtime : helps neurotransmiters if my brain fog head rite and its the

only source of magnesium i can tolearte that doest casue loose stools and

it cross teh blood brain barrier... glad the new compund is helping u tealk

> [Original Message]

> From: <Newbysally@...>

> < >

> Date: 10/11/2004 5:18:24 PM

> Subject: Re: rivotril/klonopin withdrawal

>

>

>

>

> > at the same time i added gaba( amion acid to help calm my brain

> > and sleep)

>

> Hiya

>

> Do u think u can become addicted to gaba? Today I started taking this

> supplement called Chill which has gamma amino butyric acid, Ltaurine,

hops and

> passion flower. My brain certainly feels better already, but I don't

know if I'm

> just setting myself up for more addiction problems, even though its all

natural

> ingredients.

>

> Sal

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

from what i read, gaba doesn't cross the blood brain barrier intact

anyway...so its perhaps a bit of a scam? the other ingredients are

probably what's helping. sleep is more important than dependency on a

product esp an herbal one so good luck

> hi sal , i didnt become addicted to the gaba but i remember i kept

> changhing the doseage of it and finally after several months to a

year(s)

> ?? felt like it wasnt helping ..think i was limited to 5000 mg /day

by

> alternative person : guessing was years ago.. i now use magnesium

glycinate

> at bedtime : helps neurotransmiters if my brain fog head rite and

its the

> only source of magnesium i can tolearte that doest casue loose

stools and

> it cross teh blood brain barrier... glad the new compund is helping

u tealk

>

>

> > [Original Message]

> > From: <Newbysally@a...>

> > < >

> > Date: 10/11/2004 5:18:24 PM

> > Subject: Re: rivotril/klonopin withdrawal

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > at the same time i added gaba( amion acid to help calm my brain

> > > and sleep)

> >

> > Hiya

> >

> > Do u think u can become addicted to gaba? Today I started taking

this

> > supplement called Chill which has gamma amino butyric acid,

Ltaurine,

> hops and

> > passion flower. My brain certainly feels better already, but I

don't

> know if I'm

> > just setting myself up for more addiction problems, even though

its all

> natural

> > ingredients.

> >

> > Sal

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I'm not a doctor, but I strongly doubt it Sal. The reason benzos

like klonopin (which I'm taking again, unfortunately, but hopefully

just for a couple months) become addictive because they

DEPLETE gaba.

At the same time, one can also take too much gaba. I'm okay

with 200-250 mgs, but more than that and I'll get a strong warm

and tingly sensation.

Some great info on gaba and other aminos can be found in the

book " The Healing Nutrients Within " -- available at your library I

would think...

Dan

>

>

> > at the same time i added gaba( amion acid to help calm my

brain

> > and sleep)

>

> Hiya

>

> Do u think u can become addicted to gaba? Today I started

taking this

> supplement called Chill which has gamma amino butyric acid,

Ltaurine, hops and

> passion flower. My brain certainly feels better already, but I

don't know if I'm

> just setting myself up for more addiction problems, even

though its all natural

> ingredients.

>

> Sal

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Some great info on gaba and other aminos can be found in the

book " The Healing Nutrients Within " -- available at your library I

would think...

Hi Dan

Thanks for that information - will check it out. There's so much to learn

when u've got this particular illness and so few professionals seem to know what

they're talking about.

If you're gonna come off the rivotril again at some point, it might be worth

looking into the advice I got from the drugs counsellor I spoke to from the

Back to Life site - i.e. taking noni juice just before the last withdrawal,

which she says is helping significantly.

TC

Sal

[Guest guest]

I don't think benzos deplete gaba. They aren't like SSRI's which are

uptake inhibitors. They do have slightly different shapes than our

natural gaba receptors and over time, our receptors may shift to fit

the drug more than our own natural gaba, which may be one reason one

should taper off slowly.

I still think they can be neuroprotective in cfids, fibro, chronic

lyme etc; any chronic disorder leading to nerve/nervous system

inflammation

> >

> >

> > > at the same time i added gaba( amion acid to help calm my

> brain

> > > and sleep)

> >

> > Hiya

> >

> > Do u think u can become addicted to gaba? Today I started

> taking this

> > supplement called Chill which has gamma amino butyric acid,

> Ltaurine, hops and

> > passion flower. My brain certainly feels better already, but I

> don't know if I'm

> > just setting myself up for more addiction problems, even

> though its all natural

> > ingredients.

> >

> > Sal

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Interesting point! I guess I should've phrased it a little better.

Benzo's don't create any gaba, so while one is taking them, they

could give the body the sense that things are okay, while all

along, no new gaba is being built up -- as reserves -- to handle

stress, and protect the brain. So maybe it's indirect depletion?

I did read awhile back that manganese (not magnesium) and

b-6 help the brain convert glutamine and glutamic acid into

gaba...

d.

> > >

> > >

> > > > at the same time i added gaba( amion acid to help calm

my

> > brain

> > > > and sleep)

> > >

> > > Hiya

> > >

> > > Do u think u can become addicted to gaba? Today I started

> > taking this

> > > supplement called Chill which has gamma amino butyric

acid,

> > Ltaurine, hops and

> > > passion flower. My brain certainly feels better already, but I

> > don't know if I'm

> > > just setting myself up for more addiction problems, even

> > though its all natural

> > > ingredients.

> > >

> > > Sal

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

No, I don't think that's correct. I think that chronic inflammation

in the neuro-immuno-endocrine system (they all use the same chemicals

to talk to each other) can deplete gaba, and screw up the normal

functioning of the brain. I would suspect that inflammatory cytokines

go up, I know these inflammatory cytokines for instance help regulate

sleep (tumor necrosis factor and some interleukins). So in CFIDS,

chronic lyme, whatever, you have levels that are too high, most

likely skew and " deplete " gaba and lead to sleep problems and

fatigue. By taking the benzos, you help reverse the situation,

letting the body rest, sleep, and probably calming nerves that are

irritated by high levels of inflammatory chemicals.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > at the same time i added gaba( amion acid to help calm

> my

> > > brain

> > > > > and sleep)

> > > >

> > > > Hiya

> > > >

> > > > Do u think u can become addicted to gaba? Today I started

> > > taking this

> > > > supplement called Chill which has gamma amino butyric

> acid,

> > > Ltaurine, hops and

> > > > passion flower. My brain certainly feels better already, but

I

> > > don't know if I'm

> > > > just setting myself up for more addiction problems, even

> > > though its all natural

> > > > ingredients.

> > > >

> > > > Sal

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >