Re: Re: wooden furniture outgassing

[Guest guest]

If you are at all sensitive to formaldahyde, it will not, repeat not, offgas

enough in your lifetime. Plywood takes about 25 years if outdoor plywood, 10

years if " indoor " plywood. You need to get it out of your house, now. Have

your roommate find a different piece of furniture that is plain wood, no

laminates, or other fake stuff. You will be sick. I had to take my house apart

and remove cabinets, etc. This is not just a mere minor allergy, it is life

threatening. do it now.

Jill

Re: wooden furniture outgassing

It takes several months from my experience. It is indeed

formaldehyde because it has particle board in it, not just pure wood,

or else pressed wood.

I have a desk, l-shaped, like that. WHen I first put it together I

got nauseous. Iwould suggest putting it in your garage if you have

one, for a few months. Eventually it will become tolerable.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

my mistake: " 100 years if indoor plywood " (not " 10 years " ) my typo. This is

serious stuff.

Jill

Re: wooden furniture outgassing

It takes several months from my experience. It is indeed

formaldehyde because it has particle board in it, not just pure wood,

or else pressed wood.

I have a desk, l-shaped, like that. WHen I first put it together I

got nauseous. Iwould suggest putting it in your garage if you have

one, for a few months. Eventually it will become tolerable.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Jill, I appreciate your concern for Gayathri, but I believe you are overstating

your case. Billions of people live with these items and do not become sick. It

depends on the individual person and their tolerance level. Certainly those

with chemical sensitivies are affected the worst. But even I, with CFS and some

MCS, can live with these types of things after a period of outgassing.

I do try to buy things that are plywood instead of MDF or particle board.

Plywood is significantly better. Even advocates of " healthy home building " say

that plywood isn't that bad. Yes, it outgasses but so does everything. My

carpets are 15 years old and probably still outgassing. Fortunately, most of us

are not so bad that we have to live in a perfectly designed chemical free

" bubble " .

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: Jill Lynch

If you are at all sensitive to formaldahyde, it will not, repeat not, offgas

enough in your lifetime. Plywood takes about 25 years if outdoor plywood, 10

years if " indoor " plywood. You need to get it out of your house, now. Have

your roommate find a different piece of furniture that is plain wood, no

laminates, or other fake stuff. You will be sick. I had to take my house apart

and remove cabinets, etc. This is not just a mere minor allergy, it is life

threatening. do it now.

Jill

[Guest guest]

If you remember I also have lived similar experience some time ago.I had moved

to a new house in 2000 and I had all wood flooring polished. I moved into the

house a month after finishing completed and I got terribly sick. I moved out for

one more month. I came back. The smell was still making me sick. I was asking

every visitor if they smelled anything in my house and they would say they would

not.They were surprised that I was smelling something in the house.At that time

I did not know much about MCS and pushed myself to live there.it was also

difficult for me to move out.I smelled that smell strongly for about a year time

and I gradually got worse. Within this time I learned about my illness and MCS.

I don't know if the finishing had formaldehyde in it but it was something

organic. I am sure this contributed to worsening of my condition.About a year

ago I was still smelling that smell and I posted a note to the list asking for

help on this subject. Somebody told me that it could not be the polish but the

material they fill in the cracks.This spring I did take out all of the filling

material from between the cracks. At least a pound of material came out. And

believe me I don't get the smell any more.After 4 years I am okay now with my

floor. I am thinking of never doing any kind of polishing at home..Just wanted

to share.

p.s Don't think you are crazy if you still get the smell after a month. It all

depends on the level of your MCS.

Nil

Re: wooden furniture outgassing

Thank you so much for all your replies on this thread- immensely

useful. My friend could not smell anything from teh furniture. so I

just wanted to make sure I was not imagining. And I had been sick

for 15 years and the MCS thing never was an issue until a year ago.

[Guest guest]

I am stating my truth, which is not overstating, unfortunately.. I'm concerned

because I know Gayathi is so sick already. MCS is usually caused after

" kindling " (i.e. exposure that overloads the individual's system). Once

" kindled " most people can't undo the damage. things that have never bothered you

before will, or things in combination will overload your system, things you can

tolerate individualy. So, Doris, these things may not bother you and I'm glad

to hear that. I have reactions to plywood, etc that is really, really old! You

are lucky of a mere few weeks will lessen the effect on you

Heat, humidity, etc can speed offgassing. A better way is to have it put into

an airtight " tent " with an ozone generaging maching. However, even that is not

enough for someone who is highly reactive.

I hope Gayathi is not becoming more susceptible. Good luck to everyone with

MCS...you do sometimes have to be very strict in avoidance.

Jill

Re: Re: wooden furniture outgassing

Jill, I appreciate your concern for Gayathri, but I believe you are

overstating your case. Billions of people live with these items and do not

become sick. It depends on the individual person and their tolerance level.

Certainly those with chemical sensitivies are affected the worst. But even I,

with CFS and some MCS, can live with these types of things after a period of

outgassing.

I do try to buy things that are plywood instead of MDF or particle board.

Plywood is significantly better. Even advocates of " healthy home building " say

that plywood isn't that bad. Yes, it outgasses but so does everything. My

carpets are 15 years old and probably still outgassing. Fortunately, most of us

are not so bad that we have to live in a perfectly designed chemical free

" bubble " .

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: Jill Lynch

If you are at all sensitive to formaldahyde, it will not, repeat not, offgas

enough in your lifetime. Plywood takes about 25 years if outdoor plywood, 10

years if " indoor " plywood. You need to get it out of your house, now. Have

your roommate find a different piece of furniture that is plain wood, no

laminates, or other fake stuff. You will be sick. I had to take my house apart

and remove cabinets, etc. This is not just a mere minor allergy, it is life

threatening. do it now.

Jill

[Guest guest]

People just no idea what they are exposing their babies to.... You were the

canary for your baby....it is hard for you, but maybe a good thing for your

baby, that you reacted.

Peggy

I am new and this is my first post. I'm due to have my first baby in a

week and have had CFIDS for about 14 months. Overall the pregnancy has

made me feel better, but this last month has been very difficult. For

treatment I take undenatured whey protein and magnesium. I'm also on a

strict gluten and casein free diet that has helped immensely.

I had a terrible MCS experience tonight while unpacking a new crib! We

have purchased new items, including cheaper plywood/MDF(?) things from

IKEA, in the past few months that bothered me a little in the

beginning but did not affect me after a day or two.

When this crib, an " Arm's Reach mini co-sleeper " , was opened I got so

dizzy I had to sit down. Even after the crib was moved to the other

room, I had to lay down and could not sit up for an hour. We are

returning it.

This is something that is meant for *newborn babies to sleep on*! I am

sensitive to chemicals, and I suspect that's how I first got sick as

mentioned by Jill below, but I'm not as sensitive as some people. The

VOCs in this product must have been through the roof. It probably has

to do with fire retardant treatment for the mattress.

I have heard about SIDS being caused by these types of mattresses, and

have purchased a " BabeSafe Mattress Cover, " which is supposed to seal

any outgassing and prevent the baby from being exposed to it. Given

how sick it made me, I can see how it would harm a tiny baby.

wrote:

> MCS is usually caused after " kindling " (i.e. exposure that overloads

> the individual's system). Once " kindled " most people can't undo the

> damage. things that have never bothered you before will, or things

> in combination will overload your system, things you can tolerate >

individualy.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Good for you. It is important not only for your own health but for your baby's.

Infants have to develop their immune systems, and we tax them enough without

adding chemicals into the mix. (carpets, lotions that smell so nice, fabric

softeners.) The babysafe cover sounds like a good idea, too.

Jill

Re: Re: wooden furniture outgassing

People just no idea what they are exposing their babies to.... You were the

canary for your baby....it is hard for you, but maybe a good thing for your

baby, that you reacted.

Peggy

I am new and this is my first post. I'm due to have my first baby in a

week and have had CFIDS for about 14 months. Overall the pregnancy has

made me feel better, but this last month has been very difficult. For

treatment I take undenatured whey protein and magnesium. I'm also on a

strict gluten and casein free diet that has helped immensely.

I had a terrible MCS experience tonight while unpacking a new crib! We

have purchased new items, including cheaper plywood/MDF(?) things from

IKEA, in the past few months that bothered me a little in the

beginning but did not affect me after a day or two.

When this crib, an " Arm's Reach mini co-sleeper " , was opened I got so

dizzy I had to sit down. Even after the crib was moved to the other

room, I had to lay down and could not sit up for an hour. We are

returning it.

This is something that is meant for *newborn babies to sleep on*! I am

sensitive to chemicals, and I suspect that's how I first got sick as

mentioned by Jill below, but I'm not as sensitive as some people. The

VOCs in this product must have been through the roof. It probably has

to do with fire retardant treatment for the mattress.

I have heard about SIDS being caused by these types of mattresses, and

have purchased a " BabeSafe Mattress Cover, " which is supposed to seal

any outgassing and prevent the baby from being exposed to it. Given

how sick it made me, I can see how it would harm a tiny baby.

wrote:

> MCS is usually caused after " kindling " (i.e. exposure that overloads

> the individual's system). Once " kindled " most people can't undo the

> damage. things that have never bothered you before will, or things

> in combination will overload your system, things you can tolerate >

individualy.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

You might want to get a non-toxic crib. They make non-toxic beds so I'm sure

they must make cribs too.

Another thing to think about is your carpeting. Carpets are full of hundreds of

chemicals, and I certainly wouldn't my my kids crawling around on it. Unless it

is very old, it is probably the worst chemical generator in your house.

doris

----- Original Message -----

I had a terrible MCS experience tonight while unpacking a new crib! We

have purchased new items, including cheaper plywood/MDF(?) things from

IKEA, in the past few months that bothered me a little in the

beginning but did not affect me after a day or two.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

They do have chemical air cleaners. They are a little pricy, but since the

filters last for 5 years its less than a cheap one. (e-bay)

I was surprised no one mentioned another group EPD where it seems most

people who try it say its great.

Ron

Re: wooden furniture outgassing

Thanks Jill and Peggy,

The crib was returned and we are going to use a travel bassinett

that we bought from a lawn sale over the summer. That is all aired out

and should be fine for the first couple of months. After that, I have

heard that IKEA does not use flame retardants on their mattresses so

that should be safer.

I was a bit afraid to respond because I am used to a support-based

group and I read the rules and realized that I should stick to

treatment discussions. That's no problem since there's a lot of

treatments I'm curious to try and talk about.

Thanks,

wrote:

> Good for you. It is important not only for your own health but for

your baby's. Infants have to develop their immune systems, and we tax

them enough without adding chemicals into the mix. (carpets, lotions

that smell so nice, fabric softeners.) The babysafe cover sounds like

a good idea, too.

> Jill

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

One note of caution about using a used mattress with a baby. They found an

increased rate of Sudden Infant Death (SID) in babies who slept on used

mattresses. The older the mattress, the greater the risk of SID. It's not

just a problem due to outgassing of new mattresses. One of the

recommendations is if you get a used mattress, to wrap it in a special way.

They were able to significantly drop the rate of deaths from SID in New

Zealand simply by heavily promoting mattress wrapping.

From what I understand, mold in mattresses is probably the likely culprit.

It is affected by the fire retardants used in mattresses, and produces more

toxic fumes than it would normally produce. Because babies may drool or spit

up, or have leaky diapers, or have a bottle that leaks, baby mattresses can

become a source of mold growth. The surface may not show mold, but the mold

may grow deeper in the mattress where it is not visible. So it isn't enough

to visually look at a mattress to determine whether it may have a mold

problem.

If you are chemically sensitive, you may also be genetically susceptible to

mold toxins, and your baby also, which might put them at increased risk of

SID. I understand that there are special mattress wrapping products that are

available for this purpose, but it is possible to do so without a commercial

product for this purpose. I did a quick web search and came up with the

following web site that might have more information about this:

http://www.somaticsplus.com/health_hints/hhb14a.html

This might also be something that might be a problem for adults with CFS,

since so many are mold intolerant. People do sweat, or drool in their sleep,

and not be aware that it is causing mold growth in their mattress. It's not

just the fact that mold may be growing, but the fact that the mold interacts

with the fire retardant used in mattresses, which does not disappear from

outgassing. Even a mattress that is some years old will continue to have

fire retardant in the mattress that the mold can interact with. In effect,

it might mean that a used mattress might create more problems than a new

mattress.

Dr. Shoemaker in land believes that a genetic susceptibility to molds

may be the cause of CFS symptoms for many people with that particular

genetic trait. And that particular genetic problem also makes them more

susceptible to developing MCS. If you already have MCS, I would be

especially concerned about the risk of SID in your child.

lindaj@...

Re: wooden furniture outgassing

>

> If you are so sensitive, your baby might have similar genetic

> tendencies. Getting used furniture and even mattresses are a really

> good idea. I do the same myself. A lightly used mattress (a year

> old) is a lot cheaper and thoroughly outgassed--why would I want to

> sleep on a chemical soup every night?

[Guest guest]

Do you have a brand name for a chemical air cleaner, or store where they can be

found?

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron

They do have chemical air cleaners. They are a little pricy, but since the

filters last for 5 years its less than a cheap one. (e-bay)

Ron

[Guest guest]

, this is off topic, but I saw an item in the newspaper today, they think

they've found a virus that causes SID. Still, need to be wary of mold,

chemicals. Good luck to you and your baby.

Jill

Re: wooden furniture outgassing

,

Thanks so much for telling me about this. The crib was actually

stored in the damp basement, (dumb, but we needed the space) so it is

important that it be properly cleaned and sealed. We will probably put

some type of foam in as opposed to the vinyl thin mattress that came

with it. Either that or clean the mattress, seal it and put it over

the foam.

A week ago I ordered a " babesafe " mattress cover and underblanket

to seal the mattress and prevent outgassing. It is a product from New

Zealand as you mentioned.

http://www.cotlife2000.com (I ordered it from another online retailer,

but that link has the information.)

I'm *very* concerned about passing this trait to my baby, and my

belief (and I've found some evidence to support this) is that I

lack/am low in enzymes needed to break down chemicals. When exposed to

multiple toxins, I was poisoned and my system broke down. This is

probably consistent with what Shoemaker proposes.

http://tinyurl.com/5rekm

I have heard a bit about droll, sweat, and pee getting into the

mattresses and leaching out the chemicals that lead to SIDS. Again,

it's amazing that anyone produces items meant for tiny babies that

contain so many chemicals.

When he's older, I'm going to be careful to feed him high-quality

whole foods and not to give him gluten or dairy.

Thanks again, this is really important advice.

> One note of caution about using a used mattress with a baby.

> They found an increased rate of Sudden Infant Death (SID)

> in babies who slept on used mattresses. The older the mattress, the

> greater the risk of SID. It's not just a problem due to outgassing

> of new mattresses. One of the recommendations is if you get a used

> mattress, to wrap it in a special way.

> If you are chemically sensitive, you may also be genetically

> susceptible to mold toxins, and your baby also, which might put them

> at increased risk of SID. I understand that there are special

> mattress wrapping products that are available for this purpose

> susceptible to developing MCS.

> If you already have MCS, I would be

> especially concerned about the risk of SID in your child.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.