Re: Anyone out there see a Dr. of Chinese medicine?

[Guest guest]

Hi

I've had CFIDS since 1988, bedridden much of the time due to pain and

overwheming weakness, have EB, HHV-6, abnormal liver detox, very poor

digestion, haven't been tested for mycoplasma or CMV, but have been

severely disabled from the beginning. I've tried many treatment plans

and am now starting a program that I believe will help. Researchers

have a much better understanding now than they did a few years ago.

During '95 & in '98, I went to two different, nationally-known and

respected doctors of Chinese medicine. Each have been written about in

national magazines for curing various medical problems (but not

CFIDS). I have several books on Chinese medicine that seem to describe

my symptoms & I respect the beliefs and practices. These doctors said

very confidently that they could cure me. I went weekly for

custom-made herbs & acupuncture for a period of about six months with

each doctor. At the end of the six months I wasn't any better. When I

told each doctor that I wasn't seeing any improvement, he said he was

puzzled and didn't know what else to do.

Like most people in this group, I've tried many different avenues of

medicine and healing. The symptoms that I have been able to eliminate

(like heart arrythmias and daily vascular headaches) were the result

of my own research and experimentation. The people that I know of (on

this list and personally) who have improved significantly - to the

point of being almost well - have done so through following protocols

of doctors who are top specialists in CFIDS; and it seems that all

those who have improved considerably have used either a variety of

antibiotics (as in Dr. Jadin's program which Ken Lassesen, who got

well, explains on his web site) or they have used Doxycycline or

Transfer Factor, a Rife machine or Saunas. In other words, they used

something REALLY STRONG to kill the viruses and fungi. Along with

that, they built glutathione, minerals and other nutrients to get the

body functioning better. And it took time, at least a year or more.

At this point, I don't believe that doctors who aren't specializing in

this disease or, at least, closely following the protocol of a top

CFIDS specialist will be able to help PWC's. I've been to several

M.D.'s who proclaim to be CFIDS specialists but don't really have a

good protocol. I don't know Dr. Enlander, but from what you have

written about his treatment program, it sounds as though he's on the

right path considering your symptoms and test results. I would

recommend sticking with him. And, realize that it's going to take a

year or more, possibly. And, as you may know, you'll have periods of

herxing before you get better. You mentioned that you've had " no

reaction " to the Chinese herbs? That may be because they aren't doing

anything. With this illness, it seems that a healing reaction is the

sign that something is helping.

How long have you been ill? That can make a difference in how long it

takes to get better. And how sick are you? Do you have to rest most of

each day? This is a great group for information on the latest

treatments and places to find research results.

Regarding colloidal silver, I took it early in my illness but it

didn't help me. I can't recall the brand.

Sandy

<evilmycoplasma@y...> wrote:

> I have CFIDS and currently have active Mycoplasma Pneumoniae, CMV,

HH-V 6, positive antibodies for Candida IGG, IGM, IGA and mildly low

C19 ABS cells.

>

> My CFIDS specialist Enlander in NY has recommended

> Doxycycline and Nystatin for a period of time. He also gives me

> weekly hepapressin injections with B-12, minerals and

> Glutathione. I also take a supplement he sells called the

> Immunoprop (Glutathione, Selenium, minerals) to build

> immunity. Too early to tell if it's working.

>

> I am also seeing a very good Dr. of chinese medicine in Vermont

> who uses pulse diagnoses. He had successfully treated several

> people I know with various digestive disorders and Cancer etc..

> He always tells his patients when they need western medicine

> and has diagnosed a few rare illnesses with his pulse

> diagnoses. This is not just any Dr. He is special.

> > Has anyone else seen a Dr. of Chinese medicine? I'd love to

> hear from anyone who's done this.

> > Chris

[Guest guest]

Hi

I've sometimes seen a proper Chinese doctor, qualified in both

Chinese medicine and TCM.

I had accupunctue an Chinese herbs when mildly affected and had only

been ill for about 5 months. I nearly got better and I can put it

down to the herbs. I then had surgery and relapsed in a big way and

became chrnonically severely affected. Not able to take herbs then

as had to have some other medicines which I could not mix with them.

I have had courses of chinese herbs since, and they help, but they

are not a cure, and some of the symptoms they help return after

stopping the herbs. When I've had them it is usually to treat

something else as well as the ME/CFS. E.g. after being ill for a

few years I started getting flu bugs again and these would linger

for weeks or months, the herbs helped this a lot. The immune

modulating herbs were the best - e.g. astragalus once bugs had been

erradicated with the antiviral herbs. I also took chinese herbs

quite a lot for over a year to reduce the size of a fibroid and an

ovarian cyst. I was treated for my ME/CFS as well and they helped

this a little. The people I know who have responded best to chinese

herbs have only been ill for 6 months or so, the folks with more

neurological symptoms seem to respond less well.

When I used herbs to treat lingering flu bugs, sometimes I was worse

for a week or two before starting to improve. I also found I was

sensitive to the dosage of some herbs, I could only tolerate about

1/8 or 1/4 dose of tonic herbs.

I am not taking the herbs at the moment cos its too expensive to

take them all the time, plus there is quite a lot of work to do in

boiling them. Don't know how good it would be for liver etc if

taking them for years at a time anyway.

I've found accupuncture helpful too, and if I get an acute problem

sometimes I'll have a short course. However the effects of

accupuncture often only last for 3 or 4 days, and it needs to be

given twice a week. My Chinese doctor says that in China folks are

treated daily with accupuncture, not once a week as is done in the

UK.

Carol

P.S. I had untreated hypothyroidism on top of ME/CFS. Now just

found out I've got borrelia.

as so far I've had no reaction to the herbs (some mild insomnia).

>

> Has anyone else seen a Dr. of Chinese medicine? I'd love to

> hear from anyone who's done this. Although each Dr. and his

> herbs are different.

>

> Also, has anyone tried colloidal silver for bacterial infections?

If

> so what brand? I heard either Mesosilver (True Colloidal) or

> Natural Immungenics Sovereign Silver is good.

>

> Thankyou for any feedback!

>

> Chris

[Guest guest]

I have to second what Sandy said. I, too, spent a lot of time going to TCM

doctors -- several acupuncturists who practiced traditional Chinese Medicine,

and one shiatsu practitioner who had studied TCM very seriously. I did the

herbal teas that you have to boil for an hour; I did the tiny little pills; I

did

acupunture; I did moxabustion. All in all, I'd say it was as ineffective as

everything else. Like many treatments, I had an initial improvement when I

started seeing each of these practitioners, and that's what hooked me in, but

then I started getting worse again. One acupuncturist I saw at a lecture, who

used me as a guest patient, told the class that " for ME patients, acupuncture

IS a form of exercise. Do NOT overtreat. " He stressed mild treatments for

CFIDS/ME, but over time -- just like with exercise -- I have not been able to

find any TCM treatment that was mild enough to give me improvement and not

" overexert " me. Although TCM is supposed to work holistically, I learned when I

studied TCM and shiatsu that it actually is often used symptomatically. I did

find it helpful for certain symptoms, such as migraines, but not at all helpful

for my overall functionality. The problem with treating CFIDS symptomatically

without understanding the underlying pathology is that most of the illness

gets lost in translation. Treating for one symptom can easily make another

symptom worse. The illness really DOES need to be approached holistically, but

in

all honesty I haven't seen a single so-called holistic practitioner do this.

I find the approach of those who know little about the pathology to be

reducitionistic and over-simplified and therefore, often, unhelpful or even

dangerous. I think the ones who take a more holistic approach -- seeing the

body as a

whole -- are those who intricately study every individual part and then put

them together, rather than those who rely too much on generalities. Thus, I

have to agree that specialists who work with lots of CFIDS patients are the ones

who really have a handle on this illness.

Peggy

[Guest guest]

I forgot to add. Accupuncture works much better soon after a

magnesium injection. My chinese dr thinks that you need to have

enough mag present for accupuncture to work properly.

Carol

> Hi

>

> I've sometimes seen a proper Chinese doctor, qualified in both

> Chinese medicine and TCM.

>

> I had accupunctue an Chinese herbs when mildly affected and had

only

> been ill for about 5 months. I nearly got better and I can put it

> down to the herbs. I then had surgery and relapsed in a big way

and

> became chrnonically severely affected. Not able to take herbs

then

> as had to have some other medicines which I could not mix with

them.

>

> I have had courses of chinese herbs since, and they help, but they

> are not a cure, and some of the symptoms they help return after

> stopping the herbs. When I've had them it is usually to treat

> something else as well as the ME/CFS. E.g. after being ill for a

> few years I started getting flu bugs again and these would linger

> for weeks or months, the herbs helped this a lot. The immune

> modulating herbs were the best - e.g. astragalus once bugs had

been

> erradicated with the antiviral herbs. I also took chinese herbs

> quite a lot for over a year to reduce the size of a fibroid and an

> ovarian cyst. I was treated for my ME/CFS as well and they helped

> this a little. The people I know who have responded best to

chinese

> herbs have only been ill for 6 months or so, the folks with more

> neurological symptoms seem to respond less well.

>

> When I used herbs to treat lingering flu bugs, sometimes I was

worse

> for a week or two before starting to improve. I also found I was

> sensitive to the dosage of some herbs, I could only tolerate about

> 1/8 or 1/4 dose of tonic herbs.

>

> I am not taking the herbs at the moment cos its too expensive to

> take them all the time, plus there is quite a lot of work to do in

> boiling them. Don't know how good it would be for liver etc if

> taking them for years at a time anyway.

>

> I've found accupuncture helpful too, and if I get an acute problem

> sometimes I'll have a short course. However the effects of

> accupuncture often only last for 3 or 4 days, and it needs to be

> given twice a week. My Chinese doctor says that in China folks are

> treated daily with accupuncture, not once a week as is done in the

> UK.

>

> Carol

>

> P.S. I had untreated hypothyroidism on top of ME/CFS. Now just

> found out I've got borrelia.

>

>

> as so far I've had no reaction to the herbs (some mild insomnia).

> >

> > Has anyone else seen a Dr. of Chinese medicine? I'd love to

> > hear from anyone who's done this. Although each Dr. and his

> > herbs are different.

> >

> > Also, has anyone tried colloidal silver for bacterial

infections?

> If

> > so what brand? I heard either Mesosilver (True Colloidal) or

> > Natural Immungenics Sovereign Silver is good.

> >

> > Thankyou for any feedback!

> >

> > Chris