Natural antioxidants

[Guest guest]

Group,

I have been investigating antioxidant therapy for my own ME/CFS and FMS

very seriously since 1991. I am therefore the best part of a decade ahead

of the field in this area.

My task has been made easier in that I was so badly affected that I

responded strongly in observable ways to antioxidants. I have posted here

before on this subject.

While I am willing to share my results and they seem to be consistent with

those produced by others, each person's needs will be individual when it

comes to doses, which is why I don't make recommendations.

Below is my current list of most effective performers. I should add that

some will need selenium, which I do take in small doses but I do not seem

to be particularly deficient in -- intakes vary widely according to diet

and regional soil contents. I should also say that antioxidants work in a

" bucket brigade " , so for optimum performance, you need a surprising number

of them. However, the ones where you must be replete are vitamins B12 and

E. Finally, for efficient detoxification, blood vessel walls need to be as

clean as possible, hence the presence of several agents designed to

optimise this, though anyone with hypocoagulation or taking anticoagulants

should not take them. The minerals should also be optimised, since they

contribute in ways that are not yet fully understood.

These supplements are: minerals; antioxidants; antithrombins,

fibrinolytics, platelet aggregation inhibitors or homocysteine

remethylators. Many of the most effective have more than one of these

actions and some have other important benefits besides. They include:

calcium 2-AEP, magnesium, zinc, MSM; vitamins A, B1, B12, folic acid, C

and E (tocopherols and tocotrienols); citrus flavonoids, hydroxytyrosol

and extracts of bilberry, cat's claw, echinacea, garlic, grape seed, and

horse chestnut; fatty acid CLA; R-lipoic acid, carotenoids beta-carotene,

lutein and astaxanthin, and co-enzyme Q10; nattokinase and TMG. The herbal

extracts are taken in rotation and all doses are optimised to the minimum

required.

The search goes on; iherb tell me they've just shipped the latest order

that includes eight new products. I've done careful trials on about 300.

Good luck,

Rob

[Guest guest]

Bob,

My doc put me on Neesby's formula called " MEP formula B. Mineral Ethanolamine

Phosphates " Besides Ca (200mg.)and Phosphorus (710mg) it contains Mg (120mg.)and

Potassium (160mg).

Can you give me your opinion of how it compares to the CA-2 that you recommend

below?

I was also wondering as you have tested things, how have you learned to account

for the various other things, confounding variables, that might be affecting

you during the test?

Thanks,

Adrienne

Natural antioxidants

Group,

I have been investigating antioxidant therapy for my own ME/CFS and FMS

very seriously since 1991. I am therefore the best part of a decade ahead

of the field in this area.

My task has been made easier in that I was so badly affected that I

responded strongly in observable ways to antioxidants. I have posted here

before on this subject.

While I am willing to share my results and they seem to be consistent with

those produced by others, each person's needs will be individual when it

comes to doses, which is why I don't make recommendations.

Below is my current list of most effective performers. I should add that

some will need selenium, which I do take in small doses but I do not seem

to be particularly deficient in -- intakes vary widely according to diet

and regional soil contents. I should also say that antioxidants work in a

" bucket brigade " , so for optimum performance, you need a surprising number

of them. However, the ones where you must be replete are vitamins B12 and

E. Finally, for efficient detoxification, blood vessel walls need to be as

clean as possible, hence the presence of several agents designed to

optimise this, though anyone with hypocoagulation or taking anticoagulants

should not take them. The minerals should also be optimised, since they

contribute in ways that are not yet fully understood.

These supplements are: minerals; antioxidants; antithrombins,

fibrinolytics, platelet aggregation inhibitors or homocysteine

remethylators. Many of the most effective have more than one of these

actions and some have other important benefits besides. They include:

calcium 2-AEP, magnesium, zinc, MSM; vitamins A, B1, B12, folic acid, C

and E (tocopherols and tocotrienols); citrus flavonoids, hydroxytyrosol

and extracts of bilberry, cat's claw, echinacea, garlic, grape seed, and

horse chestnut; fatty acid CLA; R-lipoic acid, carotenoids beta-carotene,

lutein and astaxanthin, and co-enzyme Q10; nattokinase and TMG. The herbal

extracts are taken in rotation and all doses are optimised to the minimum

required.

The search goes on; iherb tell me they've just shipped the latest order

that includes eight new products. I've done careful trials on about 300.

Good luck,

Rob

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

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[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Adrienne Gomez " <duckblossm@...>

Bob,

My doc put me on Neesby's formula called " MEP formula B. Mineral

Ethanolamine Phosphates " Besides Ca (200mg.)and Phosphorus (710mg) it

contains Mg (120mg.)and Potassium (160mg).

Can you give me your opinion of how it compares to the CA-2 that you

recommend below?

I was also wondering as you have tested things, how have you learned to

account for the various other things, confounding variables, that might

be affecting you during the test?

Adrienne,

I believe that most people consuming a Western diet will be replete in

phosphorous and that surplus of it is a primary cause of calcification of

soft tissues. This is because the body shunts surplus phosphates this way

and incidentally frequently creates hypocalcaemia in the process. (Having

said that, there will be those with osteopenia who might benefit from it.)

Potassium is not usually deficient.

Magnesium is needed inside the cells. AEP might be beneficial and I take

some but other forms penetrate cells better, notably glycinate.

Calcium AEP is the big one -- that's true in the literature too.

When testing an agent, I avoid all other variables as far as possible and

repeat tests several times. I also repeat them at intervals, so that for

the past fifteen years or so I have been conducting one trial after

another, taking careful notes. It's a unique body of information and

through luck or judgement, I've been ahead of anyone else in some fields

that have turned out to be very important.

Rob