Re: heart symptoms since flu

[Guest guest]

Peggy,

Have you monitered your pulse over 24 hours, a BP cuff or a runners

chest monitor will allow you to do this. SInce I became ill in

Feb,2003 - my resting pulse became 100-105+ and my standing is 130-

150 - yes, this is 24/7. I really don't want to take Beta Blockers

to slow it down because I already have a fatigue problem.

I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING THROUGH - hang in there!!

I'm wearing a 2 week holter for my Cardiologist, so I'll let you

know what he says.

> Ever since I had what I think was the flu a couple of weeks ago,

my heart has

> been feeling very, very strange. I am having more OI symptoms

again, such as

> racing heart and faintness when I sit up for any period of time,

but the

> heart symptoms continue when I am lying down, when I am trying to

sleep, and

> especially when I do any small exertion. Basically, my heart just

feels like an

> engine that is running way too hard -- my heartbeat feels rapid

and strange

> almost all the time, I'm even more wiped out than usual, and I

simply can't fall

> asleep because I am lying in bed with my heart ka-thumping out of

my chest.

> When I finally do sleep, and wake up to go to the bathroom, and

come back, my

> heart is so taxed from the exertion that it keeps me up for a long

time.

>

> I'm wondering if the " flu " was actually a reactivation of one of

the CFIDS

> viruses, and if that virus is in my heart. I have MCS on a level

that makes it

> nearly impossible to go to the doctor, and I'm definitely too sick

to go now.

> I live 1/2 a mile from a hospital, which is of course not MCS-safe

but

> certainly useful if my heart blows up. So I'm wondering if anyone

has had similar

> symptoms after the flu. I don't normally get the flu, so that in

itself was

> weird. I thought it might be because I have been doing the saunas

twice a week,

> and Jim told me some people doing the saunas suddenly got colds or

flu again.

> I did have T-wave inversions and T-wave flattening, and

tachycardia, on the

> Holter monitor test I had done several years back, which were the

same

> abnormalities Dr. Lerner found on his patients he concluded

had viral

> cardiomyopathy. I also had an abnormal EKG at the office of a

cardiologist, and she

> asked me intriguing questions like " So, have any of your family

members dropped

> dead suddenly while, say, exercising or playing basketball? " , but

then she

> did a stress echo test which came back normal, so she concluded

(even after I

> presented her with the Lerner stuff) that I was " just

deconditioned, " and

> practically fled the office, leaving me in tears.

>

> Anyway, the heart stuff is making me nervous. I have never had an

arrhythmia

> that I know of, so I don't believe I have had anything life-

threatening on

> tests, although the cardiologist's question seemed to indicate

that she was

> considering cardiomyopathy.

>

> Any thoughts? Has anyone else had a similar aftermath of the

recent flu?

>

> Peggy

[Guest guest]

Dear Peggy,

I've been having the same problem during the recent flu outbreak. I had the flu

and my heart started fluttering & thumping strangely in my chest and i'm having

trouble breathing. It's not as bad as yours because it is not keeping me awake

at night.

I'm lurching between repeat bouts of tonsillistis and then back to the flu

symptoms. I got my (locum) GP to listen to my heart a few weeks ago but it was

just thru a stethescope and he couldn't find a problem.

He took a swab of my throat and said the tonsils were full of pus (he said it

was strep throat) but the results came back from the lab negative. This is the

UK NHS so I din't expect them to find anything anyway....

I've got tender spots on my chest but no pain around the heart or the arm on

that side. It feels more like tender ribs from the coughing.

A couple of years ago I developed heart pain after taking antibiotics and a

doctor in the hospital detected what she thought was a heart murmer. This wasn't

followed up as they put it down to one of those " M.E. things " ... as it went

away. This is typical of the lack of investigation of symptoms in PWME in the

UK.

The whole Lerner thing is of great interest to me as CMV has been detected all

through this illness for me. I'm nervous about the heart stuff as well but

unless I win the lottery I have no way of having it investigated.

Sorry I don't have more to add. Wishing you well!

Kindest regards,

Annette

(in London)

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[Guest guest]

i definitely have had these similar heart palpitation symptoms, and

an abnormal EKG, but as usual since they can't pinpoint the cause,

they don't treat it.

personally, i think it is all part of the same CFS package for me.

maybe it's time to get another EKG done....seeing as it is a

relatively benign and quick test.

thanks

bill

> Ever since I had what I think was the flu a couple of weeks ago, my

heart has

> been feeling very, very strange. I am having more OI symptoms

again, such as

> racing heart and faintness when I sit up for any period of time,

but the

> heart symptoms continue when I am lying down, when I am trying to

sleep, and

> especially when I do any small exertion. Basically, my heart just

feels like an

> engine that is running way too hard -- my heartbeat feels rapid and

strange

> almost all the time, I'm even more wiped out than usual, and I

simply can't fall

> asleep because I am lying in bed with my heart ka-thumping out of

my chest.

> When I finally do sleep, and wake up to go to the bathroom, and

come back, my

> heart is so taxed from the exertion that it keeps me up for a long

time.

>

> I'm wondering if the " flu " was actually a reactivation of one of

the CFIDS

> viruses, and if that virus is in my heart. I have MCS on a level

that makes it

> nearly impossible to go to the doctor, and I'm definitely too sick

to go now.

> I live 1/2 a mile from a hospital, which is of course not MCS-safe

but

> certainly useful if my heart blows up. So I'm wondering if anyone

has had similar

> symptoms after the flu. I don't normally get the flu, so that in

itself was

> weird. I thought it might be because I have been doing the saunas

twice a week,

> and Jim told me some people doing the saunas suddenly got colds or

flu again.

> I did have T-wave inversions and T-wave flattening, and

tachycardia, on the

> Holter monitor test I had done several years back, which were the

same

> abnormalities Dr. Lerner found on his patients he concluded

had viral

> cardiomyopathy. I also had an abnormal EKG at the office of a

cardiologist, and she

> asked me intriguing questions like " So, have any of your family

members dropped

> dead suddenly while, say, exercising or playing basketball? " , but

then she

> did a stress echo test which came back normal, so she concluded

(even after I

> presented her with the Lerner stuff) that I was " just

deconditioned, " and

> practically fled the office, leaving me in tears.

>

> Anyway, the heart stuff is making me nervous. I have never had an

arrhythmia

> that I know of, so I don't believe I have had anything life-

threatening on

> tests, although the cardiologist's question seemed to indicate that

she was

> considering cardiomyopathy.

>

> Any thoughts? Has anyone else had a similar aftermath of the

recent flu?

>

> Peggy

[Guest guest]

Any thoughts? Has anyone else had a similar aftermath of the recent flu?

Peggy,

I am too too tired to reply properly but yes I had a return of my terrible

heart things during and after the flu. In my case, it happens whenever I get

a virus. I stronbly suspect a return of my Lyme (and pbbly Babesia) as the

main culprits in my heart sxs (much improved most of the time)

Head/eyes killing me, you might want to read some of my old posts

Nelly

heart symptoms since flu

Ever since I had what I think was the flu a couple of weeks ago, my heart

has

been feeling very, very strange. I am having more OI symptoms again, such

as

racing heart and faintness when I sit up for any period of time, but the

heart symptoms continue when I am lying down, when I am trying to sleep, and

especially when I do any small exertion. Basically, my heart just feels

like an

engine that is running way too hard -- my heartbeat feels rapid and strange

almost all the time, I'm even more wiped out than usual, and I simply can't

fall

asleep because I am lying in bed with my heart ka-thumping out of my chest.

When I finally do sleep, and wake up to go to the bathroom, and come back,

my

heart is so taxed from the exertion that it keeps me up for a long time.

I'm wondering if the " flu " was actually a reactivation of one of the CFIDS

viruses, and if that virus is in my heart. I have MCS on a level that makes

it

nearly impossible to go to the doctor, and I'm definitely too sick to go

now.

I live 1/2 a mile from a hospital, which is of course not MCS-safe but

certainly useful if my heart blows up. So I'm wondering if anyone has had

similar

symptoms after the flu. I don't normally get the flu, so that in itself was

weird. I thought it might be because I have been doing the saunas twice a

week,

and Jim told me some people doing the saunas suddenly got colds or flu

again.

I did have T-wave inversions and T-wave flattening, and tachycardia, on the

Holter monitor test I had done several years back, which were the same

abnormalities Dr. Lerner found on his patients he concluded had viral

cardiomyopathy. I also had an abnormal EKG at the office of a cardiologist,

and she

asked me intriguing questions like " So, have any of your family members

dropped

dead suddenly while, say, exercising or playing basketball? " , but then she

did a stress echo test which came back normal, so she concluded (even after

I

presented her with the Lerner stuff) that I was " just deconditioned, " and

practically fled the office, leaving me in tears.

Anyway, the heart stuff is making me nervous. I have never had an

arrhythmia

that I know of, so I don't believe I have had anything life-threatening on

tests, although the cardiologist's question seemed to indicate that she was

considering cardiomyopathy.

Any thoughts? Has anyone else had a similar aftermath of the recent flu?

Peggy

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 Peggomatic@... wrote:

> Ever since I had what I think was the flu a couple of weeks ago, my heart has

> been feeling very, very strange. I am having more OI symptoms again, such as

> racing heart and faintness when I sit up for any period of time, but the

> heart symptoms continue when I am lying down, when I am trying to sleep, and

> especially when I do any small exertion. Basically, my heart just feels like

an

Sometimes a virus can attack the lining of the heart-pericarditis or

myocarditis or endocarditis-something like that. Also, do you have any

symptoms such as excessive sweating, weight loss despite a ravenous

appetite, excessive nervousness as these symptoms as well as a racing

heart can be symptoms of hyperthyroidism. Sorry that is all I can think

of right now.

margo

[Guest guest]

Peggy, here is another possibility to add to the others, this may/may not

link your present since flu symptoms with the other findings of your heart

previously. Anyway, your doctor won't need to do much work if this keeps

up!

Postural Tachycardia Syndrome

www.nymc.edu/fhp/centers/syncope/POTS.htm

Hope this helps.

margo

[Guest guest]

Yes, since having the flu, I've also developed more heart problems, but more

of my old symptoms have also returned, even after having made so much

progress before I was hit by the flu. I feel like I've lost a lot of ground,

and I'm hoping that I'll be able to regain it. But five years ago I got Type

A flu, and that's what sent me from having a fairly moderate case of CFS to

becoming severely affected to the point of being bedridden for a long time,

and housebound for several years after that. It's been a very long and hard

struggle to regain what I have, and I'm still not to my pre-flu state from

five years ago. But hopefully I'm more on target on what is wrong with me,

so I'll be better able to regain some ground. I already have regained some

over the past couple weeks, so I think I'm beginning to go back uphill

again.

I've read that Type A influenza causes immune suppression, for as long as

two years after contracting it. So I have been assuming that the things I've

been battling, such as Lyme and EBV have just managed to gain a better

foothold because of my getting the flu. Both can infect heart muscle and

cause damage there that can contribute to rapid heart beat. But then again,

they also can produce neurotoxins that can affect the nerve system to the

heart as well.

The other thought that I've had on this is that the body really uses up a

lot of nutrients to battle the flu, and it is possible that the loss of

those nutrients creates imbalances that the body can't seem to get over.

I've found that when my heart is racing/pounding, it is usually deficient in

magnesium and potassium, and also water. So for me, taking increased

magnesium and potassium and increasing my water can often alleviate the

heart pounding.

And the third thought I've had is that while I had the flu, it got down into

my intestinal tracts, and I ended up in the ER severely dehydrated from the

diarrhea I developed along with the respiratory flu stuff. I think that

while people are aware that the flu can infect sinuses, throats, and lungs,

they are less aware that it can also infect the intestinal tract, and cause

damage there. And of course when there is damage in the intestinal tract, it

causes leaky gut problems, and an increase of toxins leaking into the

bloodstream, and hence the liver has to work harder, and the body's acidity

increases, and uses up more nutrients, etc.

lindaj@...

heart symptoms since flu

> Ever since I had what I think was the flu a couple of weeks ago, my heart

has

> been feeling very, very strange. I am having more OI symptoms again, such

as

> racing heart and faintness when I sit up for any period of time, but the

> heart symptoms continue when I am lying down, when I am trying to sleep,

and

> especially when I do any small exertion. Basically, my heart just feels

like an

> engine that is running way too hard -- my heartbeat feels rapid and

strange

> almost all the time, I'm even more wiped out than usual, and I simply

can't fall

> asleep because I am lying in bed with my heart ka-thumping out of my

chest.

> When I finally do sleep, and wake up to go to the bathroom, and come back,

my

> heart is so taxed from the exertion that it keeps me up for a long time.

>

> I'm wondering if the " flu " was actually a reactivation of one of the CFIDS

> viruses, and if that virus is in my heart. I have MCS on a level that

makes it

> nearly impossible to go to the doctor, and I'm definitely too sick to go

now.

> I live 1/2 a mile from a hospital, which is of course not MCS-safe but

> certainly useful if my heart blows up. So I'm wondering if anyone has had

similar

> symptoms after the flu. I don't normally get the flu, so that in itself

was

> weird. I thought it might be because I have been doing the saunas twice a

week,

> and Jim told me some people doing the saunas suddenly got colds or flu

again.

> I did have T-wave inversions and T-wave flattening, and tachycardia, on

the

> Holter monitor test I had done several years back, which were the same

> abnormalities Dr. Lerner found on his patients he concluded had

viral

> cardiomyopathy. I also had an abnormal EKG at the office of a

cardiologist, and she

> asked me intriguing questions like " So, have any of your family members

dropped

> dead suddenly while, say, exercising or playing basketball? " , but then she

> did a stress echo test which came back normal, so she concluded (even

after I

> presented her with the Lerner stuff) that I was " just deconditioned, " and

> practically fled the office, leaving me in tears.

>

> Anyway, the heart stuff is making me nervous. I have never had an

arrhythmia

> that I know of, so I don't believe I have had anything life-threatening on

> tests, although the cardiologist's question seemed to indicate that she

was

> considering cardiomyopathy.

>

> Any thoughts? Has anyone else had a similar aftermath of the recent flu?

>

> Peggy

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

; I swear; as I read your concerns, about getting better again from the flu

I had two strong thoughts. One was be sure to drink plenty of water. (The other

was ...and get plenty of rest.) So I think your idea that your are still

dehydrated is probably correct.

Are you doing everything you can to boost immunity?

TAke care,

Adrienne

heart symptoms since flu

> Ever since I had what I think was the flu a couple of weeks ago, my heart

has

> been feeling very, very strange. I am having more OI symptoms again, such

as

> racing heart and faintness when I sit up for any period of time, but the

> heart symptoms continue when I am lying down, when I am trying to sleep,

and

> especially when I do any small exertion. Basically, my heart just feels

like an

> engine that is running way too hard -- my heartbeat feels rapid and

strange

> almost all the time, I'm even more wiped out than usual, and I simply

can't fall

> asleep because I am lying in bed with my heart ka-thumping out of my

chest.

> When I finally do sleep, and wake up to go to the bathroom, and come back,

my

> heart is so taxed from the exertion that it keeps me up for a long time.

>

> I'm wondering if the " flu " was actually a reactivation of one of the CFIDS

> viruses, and if that virus is in my heart. I have MCS on a level that

makes it

> nearly impossible to go to the doctor, and I'm definitely too sick to go

now.

> I live 1/2 a mile from a hospital, which is of course not MCS-safe but

> certainly useful if my heart blows up. So I'm wondering if anyone has had

similar

> symptoms after the flu. I don't normally get the flu, so that in itself

was

> weird. I thought it might be because I have been doing the saunas twice a

week,

> and Jim told me some people doing the saunas suddenly got colds or flu

again.

> I did have T-wave inversions and T-wave flattening, and tachycardia, on

the

> Holter monitor test I had done several years back, which were the same

> abnormalities Dr. Lerner found on his patients he concluded had

viral

> cardiomyopathy. I also had an abnormal EKG at the office of a

cardiologist, and she

> asked me intriguing questions like " So, have any of your family members

dropped

> dead suddenly while, say, exercising or playing basketball? " , but then she

> did a stress echo test which came back normal, so she concluded (even

after I

> presented her with the Lerner stuff) that I was " just deconditioned, " and

> practically fled the office, leaving me in tears.

>

> Anyway, the heart stuff is making me nervous. I have never had an

arrhythmia

> that I know of, so I don't believe I have had anything life-threatening on

> tests, although the cardiologist's question seemed to indicate that she

was

> considering cardiomyopathy.

>

> Any thoughts? Has anyone else had a similar aftermath of the recent flu?

>

> Peggy

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Peggy,

You describe what is called a dysautonomia, which means a

dysfunctioning autonomic nervous system.

This was one of my early symtpoms with neuroborreliosis. It is a

common problem in neuroborreliosis.

In these cases the dysautonomia is caused by the neurotoxins from

borrelia.

The symptoms basically feel like you have too much adrenaline

flowing throughout your body, which actually maybe occurring.

Rapid thumping heart rate, anxiety/tenseness, dry mouth, insomnia,

decreased gut motility, difficult urinating,...etc...basically too

much stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system and/or too much

of a reduction in the parasympathetic nervous system.

Here's some basic info on the ANS:

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/auto.html

I think much of the tachycardia is caused by the vagus nerve

dysfunctioning, it's the nerve that regulates the heart rate.

> Ever since I had what I think was the flu a couple of weeks ago,

my heart has

> been feeling very, very strange. I am having more OI symptoms

again, such as

> racing heart and faintness when I sit up for any period of time,

but the

> heart symptoms continue when I am lying down, when I am trying to

sleep, and

> especially when I do any small exertion. Basically, my heart just

feels like an

> engine that is running way too hard -- my heartbeat feels rapid

and strange

> almost all the time, I'm even more wiped out than usual, and I

simply can't fall

> asleep because I am lying in bed with my heart ka-thumping out of

my chest.

> When I finally do sleep, and wake up to go to the bathroom, and

come back, my

> heart is so taxed from the exertion that it keeps me up for a long

time.

>

> I'm wondering if the " flu " was actually a reactivation of one of

the CFIDS

> viruses, and if that virus is in my heart. I have MCS on a level

that makes it

> nearly impossible to go to the doctor, and I'm definitely too sick

to go now.

> I live 1/2 a mile from a hospital, which is of course not MCS-safe

but

> certainly useful if my heart blows up. So I'm wondering if anyone

has had similar

> symptoms after the flu. I don't normally get the flu, so that in

itself was

> weird. I thought it might be because I have been doing the saunas

twice a week,

> and Jim told me some people doing the saunas suddenly got colds or

flu again.

> I did have T-wave inversions and T-wave flattening, and

tachycardia, on the

> Holter monitor test I had done several years back, which were the

same

> abnormalities Dr. Lerner found on his patients he concluded

had viral

> cardiomyopathy. I also had an abnormal EKG at the office of a

cardiologist, and she

> asked me intriguing questions like " So, have any of your family

members dropped

> dead suddenly while, say, exercising or playing basketball? " , but

then she

> did a stress echo test which came back normal, so she concluded

(even after I

> presented her with the Lerner stuff) that I was " just

deconditioned, " and

> practically fled the office, leaving me in tears.

>

> Anyway, the heart stuff is making me nervous. I have never had an

arrhythmia

> that I know of, so I don't believe I have had anything life-

threatening on

> tests, although the cardiologist's question seemed to indicate

that she was

> considering cardiomyopathy.

>

> Any thoughts? Has anyone else had a similar aftermath of the

recent flu?

>

> Peggy

[Guest guest]

I got my internist to recommend a very good cardiologist, to whom I

faxed all of the Lerner stuff, which of course he hadn't bothered to

read when I got there.

I spoke with him and had to work hard not to alienate him yet to get

him to think that it just might be possible that people with ME are

different physiologically than other patients are and so I needed him

to use his expertise and integrate it with my symptoms and bad

cardiovascular genes (both parents), and Lerner and Peckerman's stuff.

He indicated he would. He lied. He sent me for an echocardiogram and

frankly I'd love Lerner or Peckerman to look at it but haven't

succeeded in reaching them. It was a bit peculiar but this doc

dismissed that. I also had a holter monitor.

Aside from fatigue secondary to activity, which apparently can be,

among other things, from heart inadequacies, my heart often beats

very strongly, often on change of position,though other things will

produce that (like certain foods). I also sometimes have a very fast

beat,over 100,which I cannot correlate with anxiety at

all,or,anything in fact. And I have, off and on, supraventrical

tachychardia which is reputed last I heard to be nothing to worry

about.

The cardiologist was very kind and said he'd do this and that and the

other and then never even sent a report to my internist or returned

two phone calls. He's fired.

I think I'm right,please correct me if not, that the specific heart

problem Lerner describes is called " heart failure " which I think has

to do with the heart having to work harder than it should to pump

blood out. But whatever it is if you have it you do want it fixed.

I called on my own another cardiologist. I won't bother to tell you

what her secretary put me thru--it was straight out of Kafka and I

decided that to be a bad omen. She (the doc) insists on seeing your

tests before deciding to see you. I don't like that.

There are I think several reasons why a flu would worsen heart

symptoms, but I don't have more wisdom on this issue than others.

And I and we should have access to such clinical wisdom, etc.,etc.,

etc.

I so far am one who hasn't had a flu-like think since 1987. It

devasted me,causing an end to a four year marvelous remission though

not good enough to be well enough to return to work, but by

comparison

to what I'm now or what I was when this hit,it was wonderful. I don't

remember that my heart symptoms in particular got worse. I know that

my stamina took a dive; my sleep got horrid, and so

did my pain. But it is a bit ago.

Sometimes I get relief from a benzodiazapine with the heart stuff.

Which is interesting because the same class of drugs help vertigo,

which is also a change of position thing. Sometimes calcium helps.

Sometimes magnesium.

Judith Wisdom