Re: Cheney/antioxidant,bioflovonoid relationship

[Guest guest]

That phrase regarding bioflavonoids is ambiguous. I think it means

that the antioxidants can make you worse, but the bioflavonoids can

protect against this. I think they help recycle the antioxidants.

Laurie

On Friday, August 8, 2003, at 05:33 PM, Nil wrote:

> Hi,

>

> This is taken from Presentation: Cheney, M.D., Ph.D., On New

> Insights Into the Pathophysiology and Treatment of Chronic Fatigue

> Syndrome

> ImmuneSupport.com

>

> 11-08-2002

> "

> Step 3: DNA Protection

> * Antioxidants

> * Bioflavonoid (important to take with antioxidants or they can make

> you worse)

> * Extra vitamin E

> * CoQ10

> * ALA (keep low because of mercury)

> * Omega 3 and 6 oils

> * Melatonin (powerful antioxidant) "

>

> I would like to know more about why bioflovonoids can make us worse if

> not used together with antioxidants?

>

> I am using about 500 mg of bioflovonoids per day. Which antioxidant

> should I take? At what dosage?

>

> Any info will be appreciated.

> Thanks.

> Nil

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nil,

You need to take lots of different antioxidants - c, e, zinc, selenium.

There are a lot of other more obscure ones like rosemary. Go to any big

health food store and they will have an antioxidant section. I would avoid

melatonin except during times when your body clock needs re-setting. You

actually need to take about 80 mg. of melatonin for it to have any

antioxidant affect. I think you want to take no more than 50 mg zinc/day,

max. 200 mcg selenium. I take 1000 mg. of c. There's a lot of debate over

what the optimum dose of c is. I take 400-600 ie. of e; also lot of debate

over optimum dose. Don't know why bioflavinoids taken alone are bad. I

take rutin and hesperedin bioflavinoid (about 1000 mg/day) as well as some

pills that contain pycnogenol, green tea extract, billberry,

curcumin/tumeric, and a few other things. Steve B.

>From: " Nil " <ng2113@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: Cheney/antioxidant,bioflovonoid relationship

>Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 01:33:08 +0300

>

>Hi,

>

>This is taken from Presentation: Cheney, M.D., Ph.D., On New Insights

>Into the Pathophysiology and Treatment of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

>ImmuneSupport.com

>

>11-08-2002

> "

>Step 3: DNA Protection

>* Antioxidants

>* Bioflavonoid (important to take with antioxidants or they can make you

>worse)

>* Extra vitamin E

>* CoQ10

>* ALA (keep low because of mercury)

>* Omega 3 and 6 oils

>* Melatonin (powerful antioxidant) "

>

>I would like to know more about why bioflovonoids can make us worse if not

>used together with antioxidants?

>

>I am using about 500 mg of bioflovonoids per day. Which antioxidant should

>I take? At what dosage?

>

>Any info will be appreciated.

>Thanks.

>Nil

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Steve,

Thanks for the info.

So,it seems that you are taking 1000 mg of Bioflavonoids with 1000 mg Vit C.

I thought the optimum ratio was 1/2 Bioflavonoid/Vit C?

I was taking citrus Bio.but it does not have 500 mg form,I found quercetin

500 mg.which contains lemon biof. together with quercetin,hesperidin and

rutin.Have you had any experience with it? Do you think it will be safe to

use?.

Thanks.

Re: Cheney/antioxidant,bioflovonoid

relationship

| Nil,

|

| You need to take lots of different antioxidants - c, e, zinc, selenium.

| There are a lot of other more obscure ones like rosemary. Go to any big

| health food store and they will have an antioxidant section. I would

avoid

| melatonin except during times when your body clock needs re-setting. You

| actually need to take about 80 mg. of melatonin for it to have any

| antioxidant affect. I think you want to take no more than 50 mg zinc/day,

| max. 200 mcg selenium. I take 1000 mg. of c. There's a lot of debate

over

| what the optimum dose of c is. I take 400-600 ie. of e; also lot of

debate

| over optimum dose. Don't know why bioflavinoids taken alone are bad. I

| take rutin and hesperedin bioflavinoid (about 1000 mg/day) as well as some

| pills that contain pycnogenol, green tea extract, billberry,

| curcumin/tumeric, and a few other things. Steve B.

|

|

|

|

[Guest guest]

Nil,

I take 500 mg. of quercitin too but forgot. I think you may need more

bioflavinoids if your taking other antioxidants in addition to vit. C.

Proanthrocyanadins also useful. Steve B.

>From: " Nil " <ng2113@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: Re: Cheney/antioxidant,bioflovonoid

>relationship

>Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 01:48:12 +0300

>

>Steve,

>Thanks for the info.

>So,it seems that you are taking 1000 mg of Bioflavonoids with 1000 mg Vit

>C.

>I thought the optimum ratio was 1/2 Bioflavonoid/Vit C?

>

>I was taking citrus Bio.but it does not have 500 mg form,I found quercetin

>500 mg.which contains lemon biof. together with quercetin,hesperidin and

>rutin.Have you had any experience with it? Do you think it will be safe to

>use?.

>Thanks.

> Re: Cheney/antioxidant,bioflovonoid

>relationship

>

>

>| Nil,

>|

>| You need to take lots of different antioxidants - c, e, zinc, selenium.

>| There are a lot of other more obscure ones like rosemary. Go to any big

>| health food store and they will have an antioxidant section. I would

>avoid

>| melatonin except during times when your body clock needs re-setting. You

>| actually need to take about 80 mg. of melatonin for it to have any

>| antioxidant affect. I think you want to take no more than 50 mg

>zinc/day,

>| max. 200 mcg selenium. I take 1000 mg. of c. There's a lot of debate

>over

>| what the optimum dose of c is. I take 400-600 ie. of e; also lot of

>debate

>| over optimum dose. Don't know why bioflavinoids taken alone are bad. I

>| take rutin and hesperedin bioflavinoid (about 1000 mg/day) as well as

>some

>| pills that contain pycnogenol, green tea extract, billberry,

>| curcumin/tumeric, and a few other things. Steve B.

>|

>|

>|

>|

>

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[Guest guest]

Okay,Thanks for the info. I don't know much about this so I will ask you one

more question if you have time

What should be the ratio of total bioflavonoids/total Antioxidants. Is it

still 1/2?

Thanks?

Nil

Re: Cheney/antioxidant,bioflovonoid

| >relationship

| >

| >

| >| Nil,

| >|

| >| You need to take lots of different antioxidants - c, e, zinc, selenium.

| >| There are a lot of other more obscure ones like rosemary. Go to any

big

| >| health food store and they will have an antioxidant section. I would

| >avoid

| >| melatonin except during times when your body clock needs re-setting.

You

| >| actually need to take about 80 mg. of melatonin for it to have any

| >| antioxidant affect. I think you want to take no more than 50 mg

| >zinc/day,

| >| max. 200 mcg selenium. I take 1000 mg. of c. There's a lot of debate

| >over

| >| what the optimum dose of c is. I take 400-600 ie. of e; also lot of

| >debate

| >| over optimum dose. Don't know why bioflavinoids taken alone are bad.

I

| >| take rutin and hesperedin bioflavinoid (about 1000 mg/day) as well as

| >some

| >| pills that contain pycnogenol, green tea extract, billberry,

| >| curcumin/tumeric, and a few other things. Steve B.

| >|

| >|

| >|

| >|

| >

|

| _________________________________________________________________

| Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.

| http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

|

|

|

| This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

|

|

[Guest guest]

Nil,

I have no idea but you can't just add up the mg's of antioxidant and figure

you need x mg's of bioflavinoids. There are dozens of antioxidants and

infinite doses. I think your better off taking too many bioflavinoids than

too little. It is my understanding that the bioflavs are taken to bind with

the antioxidants, which if no bioflavs are present, break down and create

free radicals themselves. If your really obsessed with reaching some

perfect ratio you should try a lot of different ratios and then do the free

radical test available from Vespro that Cheney recommends. Steve B.

>From: " Nil " <ng2113@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: Re: Cheney/antioxidant,bioflovonoid

>relationship

>Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:35:07 +0300

>

>Okay,Thanks for the info. I don't know much about this so I will ask you

>one

>more question if you have time

>What should be the ratio of total bioflavonoids/total Antioxidants. Is it

>still 1/2?

>Thanks?

>Nil

> Re: Cheney/antioxidant,bioflovonoid

>| >relationship

>| >

>| >

>| >| Nil,

>| >|

>| >| You need to take lots of different antioxidants - c, e, zinc,

>selenium.

>| >| There are a lot of other more obscure ones like rosemary. Go to any

>big

>| >| health food store and they will have an antioxidant section. I would

>| >avoid

>| >| melatonin except during times when your body clock needs re-setting.

>You

>| >| actually need to take about 80 mg. of melatonin for it to have any

>| >| antioxidant affect. I think you want to take no more than 50 mg

>| >zinc/day,

>| >| max. 200 mcg selenium. I take 1000 mg. of c. There's a lot of debate

>| >over

>| >| what the optimum dose of c is. I take 400-600 ie. of e; also lot of

>| >debate

>| >| over optimum dose. Don't know why bioflavinoids taken alone are bad.

>I

>| >| take rutin and hesperedin bioflavinoid (about 1000 mg/day) as well as

>| >some

>| >| pills that contain pycnogenol, green tea extract, billberry,

>| >| curcumin/tumeric, and a few other things. Steve B.

>| >|

>| >|

>| >|

>| >|

>| >

>|

>| _________________________________________________________________

>| Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.

>| http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

>|

>|

>|

>| This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

>each

>other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

>discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>|

>|

[Guest guest]

This whole supplement thing is really a mystery.It is very easy to get worse

if one is not careful.

I used about 1.5-2 grams of vit C without supplementing Biof. for about 8 to

10 months. I got progressively worse during that time.I think not taking

biofl. could be the cause.

By the way,I lately started Milk Thistle. I feel much better with it. Glad I

started it.

Thanks very much.

Nil

Re: Cheney/antioxidant,bioflovonoid

| >| >relationship

| >| >

| >| >

| >| >| Nil,

| >| >|

| >| >| You need to take lots of different antioxidants - c, e, zinc,

| >selenium.

| >| >| There are a lot of other more obscure ones like rosemary. Go to any

| >big

| >| >| health food store and they will have an antioxidant section. I

would

| >| >avoid

| >| >| melatonin except during times when your body clock needs re-setting.

| >You

| >| >| actually need to take about 80 mg. of melatonin for it to have any

| >| >| antioxidant affect. I think you want to take no more than 50 mg

| >| >zinc/day,

| >| >| max. 200 mcg selenium. I take 1000 mg. of c. There's a lot of

debate

| >| >over

| >| >| what the optimum dose of c is. I take 400-600 ie. of e; also lot of

| >| >debate

| >| >| over optimum dose. Don't know why bioflavinoids taken alone are

bad.

| >I

| >| >| take rutin and hesperedin bioflavinoid (about 1000 mg/day) as well

as

| >| >some

| >| >| pills that contain pycnogenol, green tea extract, billberry,

| >| >| curcumin/tumeric, and a few other things. Steve B.

| >| >|

| >| >|

| >| >|

| >| >|

| >| >

| >|

| >| _________________________________________________________________

| >| Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.

| >| http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

| >|

| >|

| >|

| >| This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

| >each

| >other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment

| >discussed here, please consult your doctor.

| >|

| >|