RoseOx antioxidant supplement

[Guest guest]

Having now tried most of the standard antioxidants, I've found that the

response I get from them, if they do anything at all, falls into a set

pattern. This supplement, which I have been trying in a tablet from

Metagenics called Ginkgo-RoseOx is the exception and I'm at a loss to know

quite what it is doing. Here are my notes.

Rosemary's traditional uses include relieving muscle pain and spasms,

toning the circulatory and nervous systems and as a preservative to

prevent oxidation of lipids. Oils are to be used externally unless stated

to be edible. Research centres on its antibacterial, antiviral and

antioxidant properties and the latter are of particular interest because

the constituent carnosic acid, when it has neutralised a free radical,

becomes another antioxidant, carnosol, and this process can be repeated

another three times in a cascade of antioxidants.

In April 03, I tried a tablet containing 60 mg GBE (which I was already

taking at 30 mg) and 125 mg of a proprietary extract called RoseOx,

standardised at 6% carnosic acid. There was an antioxidant-type response

between one and six hours after taking, with stinging tears, red eyes and

eyelids, some fatigue and tinnitus, and increased bronchial and nasal

mucus. There was also some nausea and soreness where the adenoids are, or

used to be (they are said to atrophy after adolescence) and pains from

time to time at various places down the front outside quadrant of my right

shin from the knee to the ankle and at other affected places in my legs.

As I continued to take it daily, eye and nose irritation increased to

intolerable levels, as did tinnitus. The pains petered out after a few

days and I ceased shortly after. Pain levels at affected places were

higher than before I started, though some other antioxidant phytochemicals

that I take initially had this effect.

I made two separate attempts to take a half tablet (containing my usual

GBE dose) daily. Each time, a strong antioxidant response lasting about 36

hours stabilised to partial left sinus closure and increased nasal mucus

on the left side for increasing periods after taking until after five or

six days, this became persistent. The pattern with improved immune

response from supplements like undenatured whey has always been that left

sinus closure and mucus first increase and then progressively reduce.

Usually, taking an effective antibiotic just causes an infection to

subside. I ceased, but what could be the rosemary extract be doing?

There seemed to be four basic possibilities: it stimulates reproduction of

a pathogen; it suppresses reproduction of a pathogen; it stimulates immune

response; it depresses immune response, allowing the pathogen to gain

ground. Only the second and third would have favourable outcomes. Rosemary

has recognised antiviral properties so it presumably has some effects on

immune activation and cytokine expression or perhaps the infection is a

semi-latent virus like HHV-6 and the extract reactivates it or perhaps

there is an inappropriate or unbalanced antiviral-type response, maybe

even to a nonexistent or fairly harmless microorganism. I need some

answers before attempting an extended trial.

Has anyone tried Rose-Ox. It is also available in a supplement from

Herbalife. Any thoughts anyone on what it might be doing?

Rob

[Guest guest]

Further to my earlier post, I may now have identified the cause of the

problems that I have experienced with this supplement.

Below are my revised notes. The answer that I am proposing is set out in

the penultimate paragraph. Rose-Ox is a much-hyped contender in the highly

competitive antioxidant market and if these criticisms are well founded,

potential buyers had better be warned. I should be pleased to receive any

input that members might be able to make.

Rob

Rosemary's traditional uses include relieving muscle pain and spasms,

toning the circulatory and nervous systems and as a preservative to

prevent oxidation of lipids. Oils are to be used externally unless stated

to be edible. Research centres on its antibacterial, antiviral and

antioxidant properties and the latter are of particular interest because

the constituent carnosic acid, when it has neutralised a free radical,

becomes another antioxidant, carnosol, and this process can be repeated

another three times in a cascade of antioxidants.

In April 03, I tried a tablet containing 60 mg GBE (which I was already

taking at 30 mg) and 125 mg of a proprietary extract called RoseOx,

standardised at 6% carnosic acid. There was an antioxidant-type response

between one and six hours after taking, with stinging tears, red eyes and

eyelids, some fatigue and tinnitus, and increased bronchial and nasal

mucus. There was also some nausea and soreness where the adenoids are, or

used to be (they are said to atrophy after adolescence) and pains from

time to time at various places down the front outside quadrant of my right

shin from the knee to the ankle and at other affected places in my legs.

As I continued to take it daily, eye and nose irritation increased to

intolerable levels, as did tinnitus. The pains petered out after a few

days and I ceased shortly after. Pain levels at affected places were

higher than before I started, though some other antioxidant phytochemicals

that I take initially had this effect.

I made two separate attempts to take a half tablet (containing my usual

GBE dose) daily. Each time, a strong antioxidant response lasting about 36

hours stabilised to partial left sinus closure and increased nasal mucus

on the left side for increasing periods after taking until after five or

six days, this became persistent and when I ceased, the mucus continued

for a day or two. The pattern with improved immune response from

supplements like undenatured whey has always been that left sinus closure

and mucus first increase and then progressively reduce. Usually, taking an

effective antibiotic just causes an infection to subside. What could be

the rosemary extract be doing? There seemed to be four basic

possibilities: it stimulates reproduction of a pathogen; it suppresses

reproduction of a pathogen; it stimulates immune response; it depresses

immune response, allowing the pathogen to gain ground. Only the second and

third would have favourable outcomes.

Although claims are made of antiviral properties, rosemary is known to

increase the production of prostaglandin E2, reduce the production of

leukotriene B4 in neutrophilic leukocytes, and inhibit the complement

system. Prostaglandin E2 causes inhibition of the proliferation and

cytokine production of Th1 cells. Leukotriene B4 stimulates leukocyte

functions and increases the cytotoxic activity of human natural killer

cells. Complement is a group of over 20 proteins in the blood serum that

are activated by reactions between antigens and antibodies to destroy

foreign cells, like bacteria. Whatever its other effects might be,

rosemary therefore inhibits immune response in several important ways.

This seems to be the most likely explanation for my experiencing first an

antioxidant effect and then a few days later, a rise in ENT infection(s).

Many other herbs, like garlic and aescin, have initially increased mucus

and tinnitus, but this has always happened within a few hours and reduced

with continued use.

The immune problems from Rose-Ox lessened when I started to take silica

hydride. This could be because part of the problem was bottlenecks in

antioxidant cascades or because the immune inhibitions were compensated

for by improved cellular immune response or both. A crucial question is

what the effect of RoseOx feels like: the early stages of a cold when the

virus is multiplying, or later when antibodies start getting the upper

hand and it is 'coming out'? It is the first of these, indicating that

immune response has been suppressed.