Guest guest Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 Hi and all Sorry but you are completely wrong in this instance . I have been taking 15 mg of hydrocortisone a day since last November and my health has got better and better to the degree I can exercise as much as I could before I developed CFS in 2000. I have very low adrenal reserve, possibly almost to the degree of being s due to the mercury poisoning. I think I now have got most of the mercury out of my brain with removal of fillings plus 6 months of chelation doing Andy Cutler's protocol of alpha lipoic acid. My last hair test shows minimal amounts of mercury and calcium and copper are now normal. It is the hydrocortisone plus low dose Armour for the thyroid that has given me my life back. You are getting confused about the high doses of steriods doctors used to give compared with low dose physiological doses. You should read Jeffries book " The Safe Uses of Cortisol " . My bp still tends to be very low on rising which would be expected because the last dose of h/c is taken at lunchtime and it only lasts about 3 hours in the blood. I still have othostatic hypotension even with the h/c but my body very quickly recovers and my bp is now normal most of the time. I can exercise every day and lead a full and very happy life. I still have a residue of problems balancing my blood sugar but that is improving with using Vanadium supplements. It is far better to be treated with h/c if you need it, after all you are only replacing what your body would naturally make in a healthy person. Are you saying that people who are hypothyroid shouldn't take medication or diabetics shouldn't take insulin? Its exactly the same. I also take lots of natural supplements to rebuild the adrenals including 2 Adrenal Cortex a day but it is possible that the mercury could have permanently damaged my endocrine system. Only time will tell but in the meantime I can lead a normal life. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 To test under stress conditions, just do the CRH test and measure the cortisol reponse (and ACTH). JIm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 The CRH test is corticotropin releasing hormone, which is released by the hypothalamous. It is given to stimulate the secretion of ACTH and then cortisol. It can help pinpoint if the pituitary or adrenal is deficient. It does not measure the functioning of the hypothalamous though. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Cortisol test are usualy done in a doctors office in the morning when you are relative rested after a night's sleep and not under a lot of stress. Such test are worthless for CFS since the problem in CFS is the failure of the adrenal gland to respond to stress due to malfunction in the HPA axis. Get the test done in the late afternoon after you have been under a week's worth of emotional bullshit and have been up and about and ready to fall over. Then, and only then, will you get a true picture of your cortisol reserve under stress. Most folks with CFS will find out their cortisol is depleted. The trick to taking hydrocortisone is all the timing. Don't take the drug if you plan on laying around the house or are not going to be under physical stress. But if you have work to do and must be on the go, or if you want to start exercising, then take some hydrocortisone before your activity. As far as how much to take, you've got to learn this on your own through experimentation. We are all different and must learn our own individual needs. The most important words is learning to safely dose with hydrocortione is " go slow. " If you overload yourself, you'll weaken your already weak immune system and come down with some sort of infection from a dormant bacteria, usually a chest cold. If you go slow, your immune system will get stronger and be less sensitive to an overload of cortisol. It's not easy but within a year or so you'll be able to compensate for your HPA axis problem and should feel a lot better. Read the web site below over a few times. You'll get the idea. http://www.deafwhale.com/cfs/hydrocortisone.html Your friend, Dave > Hi > Where do gte Adrenal Cortex from > Did you do tests that proved your adrenal was not functioning > All mine have shown normal such as the cortisol salivary test > Yet I am sure that My Adrenal is not working since any stress, physical, > emotional, mental wipes me > I rest for three months and I get better - then I do to much and I get > whacked again > I feel that mu adrenal reaches its limit and then gets exhausted > Like and old mobile phone battery, it never recovers to a full charge > Thanks > > > hydrocortisone - > > > Hi and all > > Sorry but you are completely wrong in this instance . I have > been taking 15 mg of hydrocortisone a day since last November and my > health has got better and better to the degree I can exercise as > much as I could before I developed CFS in 2000. > > I have very low adrenal reserve, possibly almost to the degree of > being s due to the mercury poisoning. I think I now have got > most of the mercury out of my brain with removal of fillings plus 6 > months of chelation doing Andy Cutler's protocol of alpha lipoic > acid. My last hair test shows minimal amounts of mercury and > calcium and copper are now normal. > > It is the hydrocortisone plus low dose Armour for the thyroid that > has given me my life back. You are getting confused about the high > doses of steriods doctors used to give compared with low dose > physiological doses. You should read Jeffries book " The > Safe Uses of Cortisol " . My bp still tends to be very low on rising > which would be expected because the last dose of h/c is taken at > lunchtime and it only lasts about 3 hours in the blood. > > I still have othostatic hypotension even with the h/c but my body > very quickly recovers and my bp is now normal most of the time. I > can exercise every day and lead a full and very happy life. I still > have a residue of problems balancing my blood sugar but that is > improving with using Vanadium supplements. > > It is far better to be treated with h/c if you need it, after all > you are only replacing what your body would naturally make in a > healthy person. Are you saying that people who are hypothyroid > shouldn't take medication or diabetics shouldn't take insulin? Its > exactly the same. > > I also take lots of natural supplements to rebuild the adrenals > including 2 Adrenal Cortex a day but it is possible that the mercury > could have permanently damaged my endocrine system. Only time will > tell but in the meantime I can lead a normal life. > > Pam > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with > each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any > treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Captain Dave! Is that you? It's been a long time! I've missed you! Rich > > Hi > > Where do gte Adrenal Cortex from > > Did you do tests that proved your adrenal was not functioning > > All mine have shown normal such as the cortisol salivary test > > Yet I am sure that My Adrenal is not working since any stress, > physical, > > emotional, mental wipes me > > I rest for three months and I get better - then I do to much and I > get > > whacked again > > I feel that mu adrenal reaches its limit and then gets exhausted > > Like and old mobile phone battery, it never recovers to a full > charge > > Thanks > > > > > > hydrocortisone - > > > > > > Hi and all > > > > Sorry but you are completely wrong in this instance . I have > > been taking 15 mg of hydrocortisone a day since last November and > my > > health has got better and better to the degree I can exercise as > > much as I could before I developed CFS in 2000. > > > > I have very low adrenal reserve, possibly almost to the degree of > > being s due to the mercury poisoning. I think I now have > got > > most of the mercury out of my brain with removal of fillings plus 6 > > months of chelation doing Andy Cutler's protocol of alpha lipoic > > acid. My last hair test shows minimal amounts of mercury and > > calcium and copper are now normal. > > > > It is the hydrocortisone plus low dose Armour for the thyroid that > > has given me my life back. You are getting confused about the high > > doses of steriods doctors used to give compared with low dose > > physiological doses. You should read Jeffries book " The > > Safe Uses of Cortisol " . My bp still tends to be very low on rising > > which would be expected because the last dose of h/c is taken at > > lunchtime and it only lasts about 3 hours in the blood. > > > > I still have othostatic hypotension even with the h/c but my body > > very quickly recovers and my bp is now normal most of the time. I > > can exercise every day and lead a full and very happy life. I still > > have a residue of problems balancing my blood sugar but that is > > improving with using Vanadium supplements. > > > > It is far better to be treated with h/c if you need it, after all > > you are only replacing what your body would naturally make in a > > healthy person. Are you saying that people who are hypothyroid > > shouldn't take medication or diabetics shouldn't take insulin? Its > > exactly the same. > > > > I also take lots of natural supplements to rebuild the adrenals > > including 2 Adrenal Cortex a day but it is possible that the > mercury > > could have permanently damaged my endocrine system. Only time will > > tell but in the meantime I can lead a normal life. > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences > with > > each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in > any > > treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Dave, it's good to hear from you again. I can certainly confirm your statement below. I am still working as a stockbroker, and by Friday, even after a good night's sleep, I still feel almost nonfunctional. Also, when I tried hydrocortisone, it was on a Sunday after two days of rest. That and taking too much, gave me the chest infection that you refer to. I think I might give it another try at a smaller dose on a Thursday or Friday. BTW, I never get the nonfunctional feeling when I am on vacation and not stressed. I wonder if the 4 year old h/c that I have is still good? Mike C. In , " D " <dwms02@y...> wrote: > Cortisol test are usualy done in a doctors office in the morning when > you are relative rested after a night's sleep and not under a lot of > stress. Such test are worthless for CFS since the problem in CFS is > the failure of the adrenal gland to respond to stress due to > malfunction in the HPA axis. Get the test done in the late afternoon > after you have been under a week's worth of emotional bullshit and > have been up and about and ready to fall over. Then, and only then, > will you get a true picture of your cortisol reserve under stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Jim, what is the CRH test? Thanks Gayathri. > To test under stress conditions, just do the CRH test and measure the > cortisol reponse (and ACTH). > > JIm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Dave Good to hear from you again Long time How you doing? You went back to sea - did you cope? I am still convinced adrenal fatigue - screwed by mercury, along with Liver dysfunction is the cause of my problems The Rich theory Am doing mercury detox but progress is very slow - one step forward two back as usual Am still applying your HC theroies - stil learning how to manage it Cheers hydrocortisone - > > > Hi and all > > Sorry but you are completely wrong in this instance . I have > been taking 15 mg of hydrocortisone a day since last November and my > health has got better and better to the degree I can exercise as > much as I could before I developed CFS in 2000. > > I have very low adrenal reserve, possibly almost to the degree of > being s due to the mercury poisoning. I think I now have got > most of the mercury out of my brain with removal of fillings plus 6 > months of chelation doing Andy Cutler's protocol of alpha lipoic > acid. My last hair test shows minimal amounts of mercury and > calcium and copper are now normal. > > It is the hydrocortisone plus low dose Armour for the thyroid that > has given me my life back. You are getting confused about the high > doses of steriods doctors used to give compared with low dose > physiological doses. You should read Jeffries book " The > Safe Uses of Cortisol " . My bp still tends to be very low on rising > which would be expected because the last dose of h/c is taken at > lunchtime and it only lasts about 3 hours in the blood. > > I still have othostatic hypotension even with the h/c but my body > very quickly recovers and my bp is now normal most of the time. I > can exercise every day and lead a full and very happy life. I still > have a residue of problems balancing my blood sugar but that is > improving with using Vanadium supplements. > > It is far better to be treated with h/c if you need it, after all > you are only replacing what your body would naturally make in a > healthy person. Are you saying that people who are hypothyroid > shouldn't take medication or diabetics shouldn't take insulin? Its > exactly the same. > > I also take lots of natural supplements to rebuild the adrenals > including 2 Adrenal Cortex a day but it is possible that the mercury > could have permanently damaged my endocrine system. Only time will > tell but in the meantime I can lead a normal life. > > Pam > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with > each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any > treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Welcome back Dave! ,,, from the Philippines??? the high seas? full health? ... n At 10:08 04/06/03, you wrote: >Cortisol test are usualy done in a doctors office in the morning when >you are relative rested after a night's sleep and not under a lot of >stress. Such test are worthless for CFS since the problem in CFS is >the failure of the adrenal gland to respond to stress due to ,,, n Canberra, Australia http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~julian/photo-an/photo-an.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 In a message dated 6/4/03 4:02:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pam.clewley@... writes: << It is a waste of time having the ACTH stimulation test done because its like flogging a dead horse. Even a recently dead horse will flinch if you kick it!! >> Pam, I'm not sure what science you base this statement on, but it is clearly untrue. There are 3 components to cortisol output - the hypothalamous, pituitary, and adrenal. As I said, the CRH measures the latter 2. It is quite possible that there is dysfunction in the pituitary and/or adrenals. The 24-hour tests (on their own) do not let you discern where the problem is. If you combine both tests, or combine a stress test with the CRH, you can pinpoint the problem. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 > The CRH test is corticotropin releasing hormone, which is released by the > hypothalamous. It is given to stimulate the secretion of ACTH and then cortisol. > > It can help pinpoint if the pituitary or adrenal is deficient. > > It does not measure the functioning of the hypothalamous though. > > Jim Hi It is a waste of time having the ACTH stimulation test done because its like flogging a dead horse. Even a recently dead horse will flinch if you kick it!! I will say no more but think its far preferable to use a 24 hour saliva cortisol/DHEAs test which shows what is actually in the cell. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Hello Dave I am not sure if you realise it but that article was written by a company trying to sell you liquorice and therefore had vested interests in you not using hydrocortisone which is cheap and proved to be of benefit to thousands of patients of Dr Jeffries. As mentioned previously this is my experience after nearly 7 months of using 15 mg a day. My health has got better and better and I can now walk at levels of pre CFS and my energy is normal. The icing on the cake so to speak has been the addition of 1/4 teaspoon of salt to at least 2 drinks in the morning. Dr Jeffries points out that taking hydrocotisone does not cause full suppression of your own output (which will be very limited anyway in somebody suffering from CFS) it depends on the DOSAGE. I believe its something like 40% suppression on 15 mg a day therefore your adrenals are able to rest and recover whilst on the h/c. If you add B5, Vitamin C and natural adrenal glandulars you are giving your adrenals an even greater chance to heal. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Hi Pam As mentioned previously this is my experience after nearly 7 months of using 15 mg a day. My health has got better and better and I can now walk at levels of pre CFS and my energy is normal. The icing on the cake so to speak has been the addition of 1/4 teaspoon of salt to at least 2 drinks in the morning. Dr Jeffries points out that taking hydrocotisone does not cause full suppression of your own output (which will be very limited anyway in somebody suffering from CFS) it depends on the DOSAGE. I believe its something like 40% suppression on 15 mg a day therefore your adrenals are able to rest and recover whilst on the h/c. If you add B5, Vitamin C and natural adrenal glandulars you are giving your adrenals an even greater chance to heal. Yes this is what I've read too Pam I have been on about 10mg of HC for 6 months myself - But I guess we won't know until we've stopped the HC wether or not it is true that it will have helped our adrenals recover. We can't really say while we're still taking it as the reason we feel better is probably because we are taking the HC BTW/ The HC hasn't helped me that much other than increasing my resistance to virus but then I know you have had your mercury removed etc aswell and I haven't. Lets hope Jefferies was right eh!! Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 No Pam. The article was written by me. I was one of the first in the US to successfully use Dr Baschetti's licorice treatment protocol. Licorice extract is still a great way to boost low cortisol but its difficult to use it properly. It's also hard to tell folks about licorice cause someone always accuses you of trying to make a dollar off sick PWCs. I just hope a few read my words and are helped by my experience. As far as myself, I'm doing real good now and seldom suffer from CFS. I'm not cured but I've learned a lot about MY illness. It all boils down to adrenal axis problems for me so licorice and hydrocortione are a god-send. Good luck to you. Dave > > Hello Dave > > I am not sure if you realise it but that article was written by a > company trying to sell you liquorice and therefore had vested > interests in you not using hydrocortisone which is cheap and proved > to be of benefit to thousands of patients of Dr Jeffries. > > As mentioned previously this is my experience after nearly 7 months > of using 15 mg a day. My health has got better and better and I can > now walk at levels of pre CFS and my energy is normal. The icing on > the cake so to speak has been the addition of 1/4 teaspoon of salt > to at least 2 drinks in the morning. > > Dr Jeffries points out that taking hydrocotisone does not cause full > suppression of your own output (which will be very limited anyway in > somebody suffering from CFS) it depends on the DOSAGE. I believe > its something like 40% suppression on 15 mg a day therefore your > adrenals are able to rest and recover whilst on the h/c. If you add > B5, Vitamin C and natural adrenal glandulars you are giving your > adrenals an even greater chance to heal. > > Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Hi Mike, , Jullian; Hope you guys are doing good. Great to hear from you. I'm still in the Philippines working on a whale project. Should be leaving here in another 6 months. , I agree with the adrenal/mercury connection. I had a lot of mercury in my mouth for a lot of years. I know it has caused me a lot of problems. I used to have a lot of hidden allergies that caused a lot of difficulties but I have unmasked most of them now and am doing fantastic as long as I stay away from my known allergens. Best to alll of you, Capt Dave > > > Hi > > > Where do gte Adrenal Cortex from > > > Did you do tests that proved your adrenal was not functioning > > > All mine have shown normal such as the cortisol salivary test > > > Yet I am sure that My Adrenal is not working since any stress, > > physical, > > > emotional, mental wipes me > > > I rest for three months and I get better - then I do to much and > I > > get > > > whacked again > > > I feel that mu adrenal reaches its limit and then gets exhausted > > > Like and old mobile phone battery, it never recovers to a full > > charge > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > hydrocortisone - > > > > > > > > > Hi and all > > > > > > Sorry but you are completely wrong in this instance . I > have > > > been taking 15 mg of hydrocortisone a day since last November > and > > my > > > health has got better and better to the degree I can exercise as > > > much as I could before I developed CFS in 2000. > > > > > > I have very low adrenal reserve, possibly almost to the degree > of > > > being s due to the mercury poisoning. I think I now have > > got > > > most of the mercury out of my brain with removal of fillings > plus 6 > > > months of chelation doing Andy Cutler's protocol of alpha lipoic > > > acid. My last hair test shows minimal amounts of mercury and > > > calcium and copper are now normal. > > > > > > It is the hydrocortisone plus low dose Armour for the thyroid > that > > > has given me my life back. You are getting confused about the > high > > > doses of steriods doctors used to give compared with low dose > > > physiological doses. You should read Jeffries book " The > > > Safe Uses of Cortisol " . My bp still tends to be very low on > rising > > > which would be expected because the last dose of h/c is taken at > > > lunchtime and it only lasts about 3 hours in the blood. > > > > > > I still have othostatic hypotension even with the h/c but my > body > > > very quickly recovers and my bp is now normal most of the time. > I > > > can exercise every day and lead a full and very happy life. I > still > > > have a residue of problems balancing my blood sugar but that is > > > improving with using Vanadium supplements. > > > > > > It is far better to be treated with h/c if you need it, after > all > > > you are only replacing what your body would naturally make in a > > > healthy person. Are you saying that people who are hypothyroid > > > shouldn't take medication or diabetics shouldn't take insulin? > Its > > > exactly the same. > > > > > > I also take lots of natural supplements to rebuild the adrenals > > > including 2 Adrenal Cortex a day but it is possible that the > > mercury > > > could have permanently damaged my endocrine system. Only time > will > > > tell but in the meantime I can lead a normal life. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences > > with > > > each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested > in > > any > > > treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Captain, I read about your methodology on treating adrenal weakness at web about 2 years ago and I was very impressed.Glad to see you here on the list. I am hoping to learn a lot from you.How do you feel now.Do you still continue the treatment? Thanks. Nil Re: hydrocortisone - | Cortisol test are usualy done in a doctors office in the morning when | you are relative rested after a night's sleep and not under a lot of | stress. Such test are worthless for CFS since the problem in CFS is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Hi Pam, As far as I know Captain has been on this struggle at a time much longer than many of us is and I believe he has great experience on adrenal subject. Our approaches may differ but I believe I have much to learn from him.I would listen to his words.I am not saying that Dr.Jeffries is wrong. I haven't tried his prorocol so I can not say anything about it.These are all different approaches and we may choose whichever way we think is correct. Also there are always more than one ways to reach the target. Isn't that true? Thanks:) nil Re: hydrocortisone - | | | Hello Dave | | I am not sure if you realise it but that article was written by a | company trying to sell you liquorice and therefore had vested | interests in you not using hydrocortisone which is cheap and proved | to be of benefit to thousands of patients of Dr Jeffries. | | As mentioned previously this is my experience after nearly 7 months | of using 15 mg a day. My health has got better and better and I can | now walk at levels of pre CFS and my energy is normal. The icing on | the cake so to speak has been the addition of 1/4 teaspoon of salt | to at least 2 drinks in the morning. | | Dr Jeffries points out that taking hydrocotisone does not cause full | suppression of your own output (which will be very limited anyway in | somebody suffering from CFS) it depends on the DOSAGE. I believe | its something like 40% suppression on 15 mg a day therefore your | adrenals are able to rest and recover whilst on the h/c. If you add | B5, Vitamin C and natural adrenal glandulars you are giving your | adrenals an even greater chance to heal. | | Pam | | | | This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. | | Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 > Hi Pam, > > As far as I know Captain has been on this struggle at a time much longer > than many of us is and I believe he has great experience on adrenal subject. > Our approaches may differ but I believe I have much to learn from him.I > would listen to his words.I am not saying that Dr.Jeffries is wrong. I > haven't tried his prorocol so I can not say anything about it.These are all > different approaches and we may choose whichever way we think is correct. > Also there are always more than one ways to reach the target. Isn't that > true? > Thanks:) > nil Hi Nil What we must never forget is that we are all different and I can only speak of my own experience which backs up what Jeffries found in thousands of patients over a 30-40 year period. From my own experience Jeffries is correct in that low dose hydrocortisone given on a daily basis plus the use of natural thyroid extracts, like Armour, (where indicated) can give people suffering from CFS their life back. I notice Dave also says that thyroid supplementation doesn't work in CFS patients with normal blood tests but again I have to differ because in my own experience I need 1 grain a day in addition to the 15 mg h/c. Dr Poesnecker and also state that using h/c for patients who have very underfunctioning adrenals is beneficial as long as it taken for a period between 6 months - 2 years maximum and at a low dose (under 20 mg a day). At the end of the day if I have recovered from CFS which I have with the help of the h/c and Armour do I really care if I have to take them for the rest of my life? It would be great if my adrenals do recover so that they don't need the h/c in time but as long as I am a fully functioning human being again that's all that matters. Dr Jeffries could find no ill effects in his patients who were on low dose h/c for 30 years or more, in fact they tended to be healthier with regard to illnesses than his patients not on h/c. People seem to get so confused about the use of low dose therapy using natural hydrocortisone and the use of very high doses of synthetic steroids that caused such horrendous damage to so many people. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Dave, I have couple of questions. I have Dr Baschetti's licorice. Dr. Poesnecker said that it is only used if the patient has morning low cortisol value.So,he said that he can not let me start it before seeing my ASI test results. On the other side I see that you have used it and advise others to use it. Can you explain me what the reason could be for not using it if the morning cortisol is not low? Do you use ASI test to check your cortisol situation while supplementing? If not how do you understand that licorice is indicated or not?(I already am using adrenal cortex extract.) Also,Have you ever tried pantethine? Do you find it helpful in adrenal regeneration or does it act like a stimulator?What about proper dosage? Thanks. Nil Re: hydrocortisone - | No Pam. The article was written by me. I was one of the first in | the US to successfully use Dr Baschetti's licorice treatment | protocol. Licorice extract is still a great way to boost low cortisol | but its difficult to use it properly. It's also hard to tell folks | about licorice cause someone always accuses you of trying to make a | dollar off sick PWCs. | | I just hope a few read my words and are helped by my experience. As | far as myself, I'm doing real good now and seldom suffer from CFS. | I'm not cured but I've learned a lot about MY illness. It all boils | down to adrenal axis problems for me so licorice and hydrocortione | are a god-send. | | Good luck to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2003 Report Share Posted June 5, 2003 Nil, I don't see any reason you can't experiment but I can't argue with Dr. Poesnecker even though he recommends Baschetti differently than I do. He has a large practice and recommends Baschetti to a whole lot of folks with CFS so I guess it is safe to say he is now far more experienced than I ever was. It also makes sense not to use licorice if morning cortisol values are normal. But there is a lot more to using licorice. One really needs to study up on the subject. My advice is to read my site at www.deafwhale.com/cfs and see what you can learn. I'll be happy to help you after you have the basics down. Regards, Dave > Dave, > > I have couple of questions. > I have Dr Baschetti's licorice. Dr. Poesnecker said that it is only used if > the patient has morning low cortisol value.So,he said that he can not let me > start it before seeing my ASI test results. On the other side I see that you > have used it and advise others to use it. Can you explain me what the reason > could be for not using it if the morning cortisol is not low? Do you use ASI > test to check your cortisol situation while supplementing? If not how do you > understand that licorice is indicated or not?(I already am using adrenal > cortex extract.) > Also,Have you ever tried pantethine? Do you find it helpful in adrenal > regeneration or does it act like a stimulator?What about proper dosage? > > Thanks. > Nil > Re: hydrocortisone - > > > | No Pam. The article was written by me. I was one of the first in > | the US to successfully use Dr Baschetti's licorice treatment > | protocol. Licorice extract is still a great way to boost low cortisol > | but its difficult to use it properly. It's also hard to tell folks > | about licorice cause someone always accuses you of trying to make a > | dollar off sick PWCs. > | > | I just hope a few read my words and are helped by my experience. As > | far as myself, I'm doing real good now and seldom suffer from CFS. > | I'm not cured but I've learned a lot about MY illness. It all boils > | down to adrenal axis problems for me so licorice and hydrocortione > | are a god-send. > | > | Good luck to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2003 Report Share Posted June 5, 2003 Hi . Are you the same that writes long posts about how we have to find our own cure, experiment, do treatments based on anecdotal evidence, etc., etc. or are you his AMA approved twin? I'm just kidding, I appreciate your input a lot, but this just provided me an opening to say that I do think that you get a little aggressive/ defensive with your opinions sometimes. I don't mean this particular post, which is very inoffensive. Just something to think about. I hope this doesn't start a fight just when we're all getting along so well. So forgive me in advance if it does, and everyone feel free to blast me. I'll be lurking again. Tom > Depends on what you mean " if you need it " and that is the problem. I had a > doc telling me I needed it but that was based on a saliva test by DiagnosTechs. > Did you have the test done where they stimulate your adrenals which is used > to determine if there is physical damage to the adrenals? I supposedly needed > it and yet I got better w/o it. It is not natural to have one hormone when > hydrocortisone is only one of several many. I'm glad you feel good on it even > after a long time. I think that not being on it gives the adrenal the > opportunity to need to get up to par with what it should be producing and if you are > always suppressing it with any dosage it will be producing that much less and > then when your body is finally ready to be off hydrocortisone you may still be > taking it and keeping the adrenal from getting stronger. Unless you get that > stress test to prove your adrenals are not putting out as much I'm afraid it > isn't as simple as you paint it to be and is more of a guessing game with how > good you feel part of the feedback. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2003 Report Share Posted June 5, 2003 | Hi Pam One question. " | Dr Poesnecker and also state that using h/c for | patients who have very underfunctioning adrenals is beneficial as | long as it taken for a period between 6 months - 2 years maximum and | at a low dose (under 20 mg a day). | People seem | to get so confused about the use of low dose therapy using natural | hydrocortisone and the use of very high doses of synthetic steroids | that caused such horrendous damage to so many people. " From above statements I am concluding that you are mentioning about natural cortisone.Is h/c that you are mentioning is natural? As far as I know Dr. Poesnecker does advise usage of only natural adrenal cortex extract. Thanks. Nil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2003 Report Share Posted June 5, 2003 Thanks Dave, I went through your site but still could not find an answer on why Licorice is not used for patients with normal or high morning cortisol level..I know he is very experienced and I also do respect his opinions a lot but I was just wondering why he said that. The reason behing it. Thanks Nil Re: hydrocortisone - | > | > | > | No Pam. The article was written by me. I was one of the first in | > | the US to successfully use Dr Baschetti's licorice treatment | > | protocol. Licorice extract is still a great way to boost low | cortisol | > | but its difficult to use it properly. It's also hard to tell | folks | > | about licorice cause someone always accuses you of trying to make | a | > | dollar off sick PWCs. | > | | > | I just hope a few read my words and are helped by my experience. | As | > | far as myself, I'm doing real good now and seldom suffer from CFS. | > | I'm not cured but I've learned a lot about MY illness. It all | boils | > | down to adrenal axis problems for me so licorice and hydrocortione | > | are a god-send. | > | | > | Good luck to you. | | | | This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. | | Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2003 Report Share Posted June 5, 2003 Hi Pam What we must never forget is that we are all different and I can only speak of my own experience which backs up what Jeffries found in thousands of patients over a 30-40 year period. From my own experience Jeffries is correct in that low dose hydrocortisone given on a daily basis plus the use of natural thyroid extracts, like Armour, (where indicated) can give people suffering from CFS their life back. Well I'm taking 10 -15mg a day a la Jefferies method and I certainly don't have my life back. I think you need to do much more than just take H/C and I believe you yourself have had your mercury chelated. I notice Dave also says that thyroid supplementation doesn't work in CFS patients with normal blood tests but again I have to differ because in my own experience I need 1 grain a day in addition to the 15 mg h/c. Dr Poesnecker and also state that using h/c for patients who have very underfunctioning adrenals is beneficial as long as it taken for a period between 6 months - 2 years maximum and at a low dose (under 20 mg a day). Yes they do and that's why I'm taking it. At the end of the day if I have recovered from CFS which I have with the help of the h/c and Armour do I really care if I have to take them for the rest of my life? Well I would care because there is evidence that low-dose cortisol can increase your chances of osteoporosis and the chances are already high in women no doubt especially those who've had chronic illness. It would be great if my adrenals do recover so that they don't need the h/c in time but as long as I am a fully functioning human being again that's all that matters. Dr Jeffries could find no ill effects in his patients who were on low dose h/c for 30 years or more, in fact they tended to be healthier with regard to illnesses than his patients not on h/c. People seem to get so confused about the use of low dose therapy using natural hydrocortisone and the use of very high doses of synthetic steroids that caused such horrendous damage to so many people. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2003 Report Share Posted June 5, 2003 > From above statements I am concluding that you are mentioning about natural > cortisone.Is h/c that you are mentioning is natural? As far as I know Dr. > Poesnecker does advise usage of only natural adrenal cortex extract. > Thanks. > Nil Hi Nil Dr Peatfield in the UK who used hydrocortisone successfully (plus Armour) states in his book " The Great Thyroid Scandal and how to survive it " " Undoubtedly for the clinician, the replacement of choice is hydrocortisone, since this though synthetically produced, is identical to naturally produced cortisone. " He has a chapter on CFS and the thyroid and he mentions a paper published in the Journal of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, by Dr Teiltelbauum and others in 2001 which stated the syndrome is a multifactorial illness with various symptoms noted in varying degrees so that treatment has to be tailored to the patient. Most patients received some kind of night sedation of a simple and non-addicitive kind; and some received low dose antidepressants. Most were provided with nutritional support with iron, vitc and other vits including B12 injections. Thyroid, either Armour thyroid or synethetic thyroid hormones, T4 or T3 was given to more than half of the patients with obvious thyroid symptomology and/or positive blood tests. Cortisone and DHEA was featured in more than half of the patients in the trial. Some men were given testosterone and some women oestrogen where shown to be defiicient. High levels of fungus in the stools was treated with Nystatin (I am hoping to start this treatment shortly), and abnormal bacteria concentrations in the stool (eg closteridium difficile) was treated with Metronidazole. The result of the study was quite unequivocal. They were gratified to find in this trial that 48.5% were much better and 42% were somewhat better; an extradionarily encouraging result. It was concluded that the mulifactorial problems of CFS should all receive attention but that thyroid and adrenal support was a major factor. " In effect this is what I have done, looking at toxiciity and getting that removed (my mercury amalgams plus chelation), a few tests done for the adrenal/thryoid and then treating them with the result my CFS has gone. I only want to inform people that it is possible to recover from this devastating illness but there are no simple answers. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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