Re: cheney visit #4

March 11, 2003

Thank you so much for posting about your visit with Cheney. It was very

helpful.

March 12, 2003

Cort,

Thanks for writing such an informative account for us.

I agree that Cheney is one of the most interesting doctors on the scene. I

can see how you feel about the bill, though of course he has overheads to

pay and if you insist that he prepares fully before speaking to you, I

guess it's only reasonable that he charge for that time.

I didn't have much joy with Co-Q10 until I tried a True Food version from

Higher Nature www.highernature.co.uk I don't know if its available over

there but it is so much better absorbed than the usual oil-based stuff

that it's well worth the extra.

Rob

cheney visit #4

> My latest visit to Dr. Cheney revolved around a very long fax (3

> pages) which he deemed too long to be answered via fax. Our

> relationship had hit a big bump in the road following a prior fax

> I'd sent to him after the disappointing (to me at least) results of

> the genovations detox. The test didn't seem to have a chance of

> success, at least for me, and that following my last appointment

> which I'd felt he hadn't prepared for, resulted in something of an

> eruption on my part and a very strongly worded fax (too strongly

> worded I later decided) which was returned with a response

> suggesting that if I trusted him so little perhaps we should end

> the relationship. Realizing I'd gone too far I furiously

> backtracked in my next fax and tried to mend the relationship

> while at the same time gently addressing some of my concerns.

> He seemed to accept my 'makeup' fax but he held onto my new

> fax for over 3 weeks with no reply and I began to wonder if I was

> being punished a bit for my intransigence. This phone call was

> my first communication with him after that mess and I really

> didn't know what to expect.

> It turned out to be a really exceptional conversation; my best

> one to date in fact. He seemed very well prepared for it, he was

> very organized, and he thankfully showed no hint of any distress

> at my rather overthetop fax. He basically started at step one and

> very methodically worked up to step nine!

>

> He started out with 2 concepts of the immune system

> regarding chemical and other sensitivities which he said I

> should think about. One is that basically as you remove yourself

> from more and more substances (as I have by my forced move

> into the desert) you can actually increase your zone of reactivity

> simply because your body reacts negatively to things it doesn't

> encounter very often or in very small amounts. He seemed to

> imply that the strange phenomenom of my increasing

> sensitivities during a period when I was camping out could be

> due to my removal from the reactants of everyday life. This I tend

> to discard; while I getting more sensitive to chemicals I was also

> falling apart due to the mold in nature - to the extent that I can't

> tolerate any natural environments but the most bleak - the

> desert. I even notice a dramatic difference between the really

> bleak and the lusher desert areas. I will however keep that

> concept in mind. It may be useful.

>

> The second idea, to cut it short, involved spices of all things.

> Spices are useful he feels because they help the body

> breakdown the defenses plants incorporate into their tissues to

> deter herbivores. Spices actually activate a broad range of detox

> enzymes. I had been avoiding spices like the plague but tried

> them and what do you know I actually felt better following a meal

> and noticed a increase in energy.

>

> Some will remember that my big problem is my crashes after

> energy enhancing treatments. He said I had to calm down my

> immune system and he suggested immunomodulator. (I don't

> know why this wasn't suggested before?). In order to do that he

> needed to know the results of my genovations immune system

> panel and for some reason couldn't find it. (I had to tell him I'd

> canceled it. He did say that the treatment reccomendations for

> the detox panel were rudimentary). Apparently the immune

> panel,. altho it is much cheaper (175) gives alot of very useful

> information.

> At this point he also talked about a new thing hes doing with a

> lab in town I believe that hes very excited about. They can test all

> 45,000 (yes thousand) genes to determine which ones are

> activated - for $1000 (!). Seems like a very good deal. Its

> basically done at cost. He didn't reccomend it to me because

> not only do I not have the money but that it will take awhile to

> establish subsets (something like that). I don't think you can

> directly translate that test into clinical uses yet.

> He also suggested a cardiovascular risk panel ($245) to

> determine if the enzyme which converts folic acid to whatever is

> awry; if it is then my notes indicated there will be a failure to

> oxidize neurotransmitters. That would throw everything off. (At

> one point he said that the nervous system and immune system

> are basically one). You would fix this problem by giving the

> bio-active form of folic acid I believe.

> At some point he mentioned a paper that hes going to give in

> May at a conference in Canada using magnetic spectoscropy.

>

> (Some of the below is likely to be garbled since it is based on

> my rather messy and unorganized notes). Much of the

> conversation concerned Dr. Pall. He is VERY

> impressed with Dr. Pall. He said he's not a medical doctor but

> he thinks hes brilliant. I forget what field he said Pall was

> originally in, but as an aside he said he thinks that these brains

> who get involved in CFS either have it themselves or someone

> in their family does. Pall thinks someone who has a genetic

> aberration who gets hit with an immune activator over a

> prolonged period of time can get CFS. My notes dont really tell

> the story but in my case Cheney thinks (at least this is what I

> think he thinks) that as my energy gets better we have the old

> problem of the increased free radical superoxide from increased

> energy production. The way to counter superoxide is through

> glutathione peroxidase which reduces it to H20. COQ10 is I

> believe a superoxide scavenger as well, it is usually made in

> direct proportion to the amount of energy you put out. What is

> COQ10 made out of - cholesterol. IF you don't have enough

> cholesterol you cant manufacture COQ10. If you have low GSH

> and COQ10 what do you get when you push the mitochodria?

> you get superoxide dismutase and nitric oxide which equal

> peroxynitrate -which it a cell killer. My detox panel shows one of

> my glutathione genes is null- its not even there and the other two

> have polymorphisms, and one of my superoxide genes has a

> polymorphism so I have a double whammy. (Genovations says

> this is a positive polymorphism but Cheney says it is positive

> unless you have low glutathione at which point it is negative).

> Not only that but I've always had low cholesterol readings.

> If you start to get better and your brain is working better you

> get the same thing - you get high NO because NO is

> neurotransmitter as well as a vasodilator) and SOD (from

> increased energy but low GSH and COQ10) and you crash after

> every energy enhancing treatment. I think he thinks this is true in

> my case (as opposed to Carols) because most of my crash

> symptoms are central nervous system related.

> The way to combat this in my case is to immunomodulate the

> cytokines, then do COQ10, take hydroxycobalamum to scavenge

> NO, take high doses of COQ10 (stat 200mg on up to 1200 a day)

> and to work on the gluathione problem with vit c (3 grams 2x's

> day (!), silymarin (150 mg 2x's day) and tylenol (yes tylenol) (1

> tablet 3x's a week). Tylenol stimulates the gsh enzymes.

>

> Dr. Cheney sounded like he'd fully recovered. He was very

> articulate and engaging. He said he thought that it was CQ10

> that bounced him out of his illness. (He said he and his wife

> argued whether it was COQ10 or vitamen C). It was a very

> enjoyable conversation.

>

> The only downside was the bill. I was charged over $1800. I

> just couldn't believe the charge and called up the office. I was

> billed for a hour of preparation! (An hour! He lives and breathes

> this stuff). This is really the dark side of modern medicine. Every

> single moment is accounted for. You'd (or I'd) think at $500 an

> hour you wouldn't need to get charged for 'preparation time' but

> thats the ethos.

> It didn't help that when I was asked what card to charge the visit

> on several days later, that after I said I wasn't sure let me call you

> back, she essentially said No! I need it right now! If you have to

> break it up on several cards do so but I need it right now (!). At

> which point I said good bye. When I later complained she said

> thats the way I was taught. When I said I've paid how many

> 1000's of dollars and doesn't that suggest some trust has been

> earned she wouldn't budge an inch.

>

> I've come to the realization that even given my terrible economic

> circumstances I am essentially unable to stop Dr. Cheney in full

> stream. Its not that he would be especially adverse to me doing

> that but that I just seem to be chronically unable to do that. Hes

> interesting, the stuff is important, its hard to stop when your

> health is on the line, and sometimes the wealth of information is

> just exhausting. I feel kind of beat and exhilarated at the same

> time when I get done with him sometimes In the future I'll just go

> in and say, like I did my first visit, I can spend one hour or 1 1/2

> hours whatever. Thats my advice to financially strapped Cheney

> patients. Hes very good at condensing all that stuff. I don't know

> why I didn't do it before.

>

> Aside from the money issue it was an excellant meeting - and if

> it works out, it will, of course, be worth every penny. One of the

> things we talked about is disability -which I sorely need at this

> point. He said hes very good at disability - that if you have the

> test scores that indicate disability and he believes you are

> disabled, then he has very high success rate.

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

March 12, 2003

--- Thanks for sharing this its very interesting. I just don't seem

to be able to connect with any doctor like Cheney in the UK.

If i am not being too nosey how much has it cost so far?

Regards

Dave x

In , " cortttt " <cortttt@y...>

wrote: