Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 > So the question is: How many of you have tried kelp tablets? What > effects did you see... did you have cold hands/feet before? I did try kelp tablets maybe 5 yrs into my illness(ill now 24 yrs). I tried a lot and I tried a little for quite awhile and I didn't notice any difference in any symptoms at all. I was later put on Thyroid med which helps me some, I wouldn't want to be without it, but its not a cure for my CFS :-( Marcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 Ken, Im not sure if this helps, but Ive often found myself to crave eating prawns with this illness, and felt generally really good after eating them (although guilty because of how expensive they are). Anyway I believe prawns are high in iodine also. Sincerely, . > > SPECULATION: that the dysfunctions produced by CFIDS may result in > reduce absorbtion of Iodine OR reduced efficiency in using iodine... > There may also be a connection between some forms of coagulation and > iodine.... UNFORTUNATELY -- almost all research about iodine has > been focused on severe iodine deficiency.... goiter and cretinism. > > Iodine does affect the thyroid > > So the question is: How many of you have tried kelp tablets? What > effects did you see... did you have cold hands/feet before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 Ken, I have tried kelp in the past, along with everything else. I didn't notice any circulatory benefits. My sinuses were slightly clearer, though this was as likely to be immune suppression as anything else. Kelp blocks guaifenesin and several other herbs, BTW. Salt here in the UK is not iodised, but I thought it was in the US. If so, then only those in a low iodine area and on a low sodium diet should be deficient in iodine. Rob Iodine and CFIDS > One characteristic that some people have reported associated with > CFIDS is cold hands and feet (Circulation problems). This is > consistant with the model of coagulation induced circulation > problems. I remember (pre-recent CFIDS round) that I had the same > indication of a circulation problem which improved greatly within a > month of starting kelp tablets (High Iodine). based on " herbal books " > about how to correct cold hands and feet. > > This caused me to do a bit of searching on Iodine... > > What I found was: > * Mild iodine deficiency has been reported to reduce intelligence > quotients (I.Q.) by 10-15%. http://www.sph.emory.edu/PAMM/iodine.htm > Interestingly Hyde et al report a 20-30% drop in IQ seen with CFIDS. > > SPECULATION: that the dysfunctions produced by CFIDS may result in > reduce absorbtion of Iodine OR reduced efficiency in using iodine... > There may also be a connection between some forms of coagulation and > iodine.... UNFORTUNATELY -- almost all research about iodine has > been focused on severe iodine deficiency.... goiter and cretinism. > > Iodine does affect the thyroid.See > http://www.meddean.luc.edu/lumen/MedEd/medicine/endo/thyroid/thy9.htm > > and " We found important differences in the coagulatory /fibrinolytic > parameters between the hyperthyroid patients and healthy controls. " > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? > cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=12030606 & dopt=Abstract > > So the question is: How many of you have tried kelp tablets? What > effects did you see... did you have cold hands/feet before? > > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 I tried kelp tablets several years ago, but it did nothing at that time. However, I had significant improvement in my cold hands and feet when I started 100 mg. of QMax, the form of CoQ10 that my naturopath recommended. (I didn't have this same benefit from any of the other brands of CoQ10 that I tried, including Q-gel.) I remember reading somewhere about a test to determine if you are insufficient in iodine. You get a bottle of tincture of iodine from the drug store, and paint a 1 inch square of it on your body somewhere. If you are iodine deficient, the square will have been completely absorbed within 24 hours. When I did this test on myself, the square was completely absorbed within an hour. However, the bottled brand of iodine from stores (which contains sodium iodide) is not a particularly good way to get iodine. (sodium iodide can exacerbate fibrocystic breast disease, which I have) I have a concern that kelp may be a source of mercury, as well as other heavy metals, as many algae types of plants absorb mercury and other heavy metals, and kelp, as far as I know, is an algae type plant. I did some digging around on the Internet, and found warnings about kelp contributing to heavy metal problems, but couldn't find any information about how to differentiate whether or not any kelp brands had been tested to determine safe brands. The benefits of kelp that are listed, sound like it could be very beneficial. But I don't know if those benefits can outweigh the risk of increasing heavy metals. Would anyone happen to know a SAFE brand of kelp? As for why I haven't benefited in the past when I took it, I have a lot of malabsorption problems, which likely contributes to my not absorbing it. Any suggestions on getting past that problem? lindaj@... Iodine and CFIDS > One characteristic that some people have reported associated with > CFIDS is cold hands and feet (Circulation problems). This is > consistant with the model of coagulation induced circulation > problems. I remember (pre-recent CFIDS round) that I had the same > indication of a circulation problem which improved greatly within a > month of starting kelp tablets (High Iodine). based on " herbal books " > about how to correct cold hands and feet. > > This caused me to do a bit of searching on Iodine... > > What I found was: > * Mild iodine deficiency has been reported to reduce intelligence > quotients (I.Q.) by 10-15%. http://www.sph.emory.edu/PAMM/iodine.htm > Interestingly Hyde et al report a 20-30% drop in IQ seen with CFIDS. > > SPECULATION: that the dysfunctions produced by CFIDS may result in > reduce absorbtion of Iodine OR reduced efficiency in using iodine... > There may also be a connection between some forms of coagulation and > iodine.... UNFORTUNATELY -- almost all research about iodine has > been focused on severe iodine deficiency.... goiter and cretinism. > > Iodine does affect the thyroid.See > http://www.meddean.luc.edu/lumen/MedEd/medicine/endo/thyroid/thy9.htm > > and " We found important differences in the coagulatory /fibrinolytic > parameters between the hyperthyroid patients and healthy controls. " > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? > cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=12030606 & dopt=Abstract > > So the question is: How many of you have tried kelp tablets? What > effects did you see... did you have cold hands/feet before? > > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 Hi , With prawns there is another possibility -- the protien in them is easier to digest than fowl or meat. After initial onset, I found myself craving protien in the form of peanut butter - which WITH b- vitamins gave my body all of the components needed to generate more red-blood cells (and thus improve oxygen delivery). Digestion problems (including leaky gut) are common with CFIDS and mal-absorbtion of tradition protien sources seems to be very common. Hence the use of non-denatured whey (which is very easy to absorb) as a way of getting protien often occurs. Of course, one could go all of the way in this direction and see if there are any sellers of non-pasturized, non-homog. milk in your state - thus getting a richer amino acid mix (since pasturization and homog. reduces/breakdown the original components) . It is available in some states. > Ken, > Im not sure if this helps, but Ive often found myself to crave > eating prawns with this illness, and felt generally really good after > eating them (although guilty because of how expensive they are). > Anyway I believe prawns are high in iodine also. > > Sincerely, > . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 I have traditionally gone for Icelandic Kelp -- it is a very isolated location, away from the chemical plants of US and Europe. On a related question. US salt has iodine -- however reviewing the available literature (so far), it is yet to be demonstrated that everyone needs the same level of iodine. My ancestory is coastal area where fish has been a large part of the diet for centuries.. thus it seemed to make sense that my genetics may have normalize to higher quantities of iodine. my reading on http://www.meddean.luc.edu/lumen/MedEd/medicine/endo/thyroid/thy9.htm has 10% with hyperthyrodism when below the " norm " that decreases to 2% for those above the norm. And for Hypothryoidism it is 5% when below the norm and 22% above the norm. This implies to me that there is a great variation in people on the " right amount " of iodine. The test that you suggested is interesting -- as always, although there may be common-aspects to CFIDS, everybody has a DIFFERENT road to walk ..... with some potential 20+ infections involved and some 8+ coagulation defects, we have at least " 160 types of CFIDS " - depending on the interactions of these. Add in genetics and it gets more variations still. So do not look for a magic universal cure, but carefully work your ways thru the possiblities. > Would anyone happen to know a SAFE brand of kelp? > > As for why I haven't benefited in the past when I took it, I have a lot of > malabsorption problems, which likely contributes to my not absorbing it. Any > suggestions on getting past that problem? > > > lindaj@h... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 I have traditionally gone for Icelandic Kelp -- it is a very isolated location, away from the chemical plants of US and Europe. On a related question. US salt has iodine -- however reviewing the available literature (so far), it is yet to be demonstrated that everyone needs the same level of iodine. My ancestory is coastal area where fish has been a large part of the diet for centuries.. thus it seemed to make sense that my genetics may have normalize to higher quantities of iodine. my reading on http://www.meddean.luc.edu/lumen/MedEd/medicine/endo/thyroid/thy9.htm has 10% with hyperthyrodism when below the " norm " that decreases to 2% for those above the norm. And for Hypothryoidism it is 5% when below the norm and 22% above the norm. This implies to me that there is a great variation in people on the " right amount " of iodine. The test that you suggested is interesting -- as always, although there may be common-aspects to CFIDS, everybody has a DIFFERENT road to walk ..... with some potential 20+ infections involved and some 8+ coagulation defects, we have at least " 160 types of CFIDS " - depending on the interactions of these. Add in genetics and it gets more variations still. So do not look for a magic universal cure, but carefully work your ways thru the possiblities. > Would anyone happen to know a SAFE brand of kelp? > > As for why I haven't benefited in the past when I took it, I have a lot of > malabsorption problems, which likely contributes to my not absorbing it. Any > suggestions on getting past that problem? > > > lindaj@h... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 > Salt here in the UK is not iodised, but I thought it was in the US. If so, > then only those in a low iodine area and on a low sodium diet should be > deficient in iodine. Rob, most salt in the US is iodized, but you can buy it either way in most grocery stores with/or without it. I've always bought iodized salt. A few years ago when I changed to strictly sea salt from the health food store I found a brand that sells an iodized sea salt, because I was concerned about that. Thats interesting that salt in the UK is not iodized, where do people get that nutrient? Marcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 Marcia, Iodine is present in the soil and hence in vegetables. Historically, a person's iodine status has depended on the local soil content. Traditionally, I think Derbyshire in England was infamous for goitre, though nowadays food travels much further so these deficiencies have been ironed out to some extent -- at least in a fairly small country like ours but probably not to the same extent in the US. Anyone taking supplementary iodine needs to be careful because as always, too much is as bad as too little. Rob Re: Iodine and CFIDS > > > > Salt here in the UK is not iodised, but I thought it was in the US. If so, > > then only those in a low iodine area and on a low sodium diet should be > > deficient in iodine. > > Rob, > > most salt in the US is iodized, but you can buy it either way in most grocery stores with/or without it. I've always bought iodized salt. A few years ago when I changed to strictly sea salt from > the health food store I found a brand that sells an iodized sea salt, because I was concerned about that. Thats interesting that salt in the UK is not iodized, where do people get that nutrient? > > Marcia > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 The reason why salt was originally iodized was because soils in the United States were typically deficient of iodine, especially away from coastal areas. Goiters were common in the mid-west because of iodine deficient soils up until they began iodizing salt. However, although table salt is typically iodized, salt used in processing foods is very often not iodized, because iodized salt can contribute to discoloring, cloudiness, etc. in processed foods. So even if a person is not eating a low sodium diet, and even if they use iodized table salt, they can still become iodine deficient. Additionally, iodine is not readably absorbed by everyone. Some people are more prone to become iodine deficient because they don't absorb it as well. Because food is now commonly transported from coast to coast, and internationally, having iodine deficient soils may impact people in areas where there is adequate iodine in the soil, and visa versa not be a problem for people living in area's with poor iodine content in the soil. I would imagine that the soil in the UK has a much higher iodine content, since it is generally closer to island/coastal land, so iodine deficiencies probably haven't generally been a problem there, and they haven't had to resort to iodizing salt to replace iodine. But the more food that's imported is eaten, the more likely a problem might occur. Iodized salt is not the only source of iodine, however. lindaj@... Re: Iodine and CFIDS > > > > Salt here in the UK is not iodised, but I thought it was in the US. If so, > > then only those in a low iodine area and on a low sodium diet should be > > deficient in iodine. > > Rob, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 kelp fluoride ( Google Search) ====================== http://home.thezone.net/~ampi/fucus.html Iodine 300.00 Fluoride 44.00 ----------------------------- http://www.rvi.net/~fluoride/PFPC/f_in_food.htm 328 mg/kg Super Kelp Tablets ------------------- http://www.bowtechforhealth.com/news/Thyroid_Kelp.htm Fluoride and chlorine are two chemicals that are detrimental to the health of the thyroid. They block receptors in the thyroid that take up iodine. Radiation is also another substance that can be detrimental to the thyroid as radiation treatments anywhere in the body can settle in the thyroid. On the other hand, adequate iodine consumption as well as a healthy nervous system can do wonders for an ailing thyroid. -------------------- http://www.bruha.com/fluoride/html/pfpc__3.html " FLUORIDES: ANTI-THYROID MEDICATION " 1) EARLY PIONEERS (the following information has been compiled from the references listed at the end of the newsletter) In 1932 Wilhelm May first reported on his findings using sodium fluoride in the treatment of hyperthyroidism. May had been largely inspired by the work of Goldemberg who was based in Buenos Aires and had published extensively between 1919 and 1930 on his findings of applying fluorides as anti-thyroid medication. Goldemberg firmly believed that the occurrence of goiter and cretinism was NOT due to iodine deficiency, but to excessive fluoride intake from air, food and water. Investigating areas then commonly referred to as " goiterous waters " ('Kropfwaesser') and reviewing the work by Repin, Gautier, Clausmann, McCarrison, Parhou and Goldstein, Pighini, Cristiani, Cahages, Houssay, Tappeiner, Schulz, Brandt and Pisotti, Goldemberg became convinced of the fluorine-iodine antagonism and thus began using fluorides in the successful treatment of hyperthyroidism. As a result of Goldemberg's findings, May likewise began with fluoride therapy in preliminary trials involving 39 patients in Germany, publishing the results in 1932. By 1935 he had observed the antagonism successfully in 800 more patients. May - as did Goldemberg before him - reported that the thyroid after fluoride administration developed a similar hyperplasia as were seen in goiter. Like Goldemberg, von Mundy, and Todd, May found that the fluoride- iodine antagonism was most easily observable through fluoride's action on glycolysis in the liver. [Glucose is required to convert thyroxine (T4) to the biologically active triiodothyronine (T3). This occurs mainly in the liver, if glucose is adequate]. According to Dresel and Goldner glycolysis in the liver was to be seen as the FIRST sign of thyroid hormone activity. Abelin had shown that priority in the treatment of hyperthyroidism had to be given to improving the disturbed liver function. Later Stuber and Land reported their findings that glycolysis was inhibited directly correlating with increasing fluoride levels in the blood. First experiments with sodium fluoride, showing inhibitory effects on glycolysis in isolated muscle tissue had been published as early as 1869 [Nasse O - " Beitraege zur Physiologie der contractilen Substanz " ; Pfluegers Archiv fuer Physiologie 2: 97-121 (1869)]. is further reported that fluoride were to be seen as catalyst in the process of calcium binding. Goldemberg had already pointed to increased calcium levels in the blood due to fluoride . According to Saegesser hypercalcemia occurred in hypothyroidism. He showed that this was due to increased calcium levels in the blood, resulting from a reduction in calcium excretion. In hyperthyroidism, therefore, a reverse condition of INCREASED calcium elimination had to be observable, and this was indeed confirmed by May in 1935. In 1937 Dr. Georg Litzka reported on the use of 3-fluorotyrosine in the treatment of hyperthyroidism which was now being used by him and May. IG Farben had brought this product (developed by Schiemann and co-workers) onto the market under the tradename " Pardinon " . (IG Farben, of course, was also the notorious and most powerful industry cartel which developed Sarin.) Schoeller and Gehrke had earlier brought evidence that the specific traits of the fluorine atom were sustained when bound in organic compounds.[schoeller a. Gehrke - Klin. Wochenschr. 1129 (1929)] When tyrosine was bound to fluorine, the action of fluorine were not only sustained, but greatly magnified and a mere 0.1mg/day F- had therapeutic effects on humans. [We have since found much evidence of this in ALL our fluoride- compound investigations, be it tolylfluanid (pesticide), PMSF, Prozac, Paxil, phenothiazine or many other fluorinated medications. The thousands of studies on fluoride-aluminum compounds or beryllium fluoride clearly show this as well by their documented G protein activation, an activity normally reserved for TSH, the thyroid stimulating hormone. TSH controls iodine,selenium and zinc] For May, 3-fluorotyrosine became the treatment of choice in hyperthyroidism. Within 6 to 8 weeks patients became symptom-free, and employment-ready. (1937) Litzka and May were able to document and supply evidence for all claims. Between Jan.1, 1935 and October 1936, May further cured 501 patients successfully with fluorotyrosine. Around the same time (1932) Gorlitzer von Mundy, being aware that fluorides also get absorbed through the skin, began fluoride treatments of hyperthyroid patients in Austria by prescribing 20 minute baths containing 30ccm (0.03l) HF per 200 liters of water. He reported on his successful treatment spanning over 30 years and involving over 600 patients at a 1962 symposium on fluoride toxicity organized by Gordonoff in Bern, which was also attended by other world-leading experts including the great Waldbott, Steyn, and others. -------------------------------------------------------------- #2) GALETTI We have received several comments from doctors and dentists who we have sent some of our documents to. They claim that fluoride suppresses the thyroid only at high doses, citing the Galetti paper from 1958. This is NOT correct. We wish these folks had a better understanding of thyroid disease and function. It shows how much ignorance relating to thyroid disorders must be overcome first in order to have this issue addressed properly. There is a reason why the thyroid has often been called the most neglected and misunderstood organ in the body... We are concentrating our efforts to bring this information to endocrinologists. It is this field which should be addressing the fluoride issue. The fact is that in ALL cases but 1 fluoride showed reduced plasma bound iodine, even at 0.9 mg/day - a fact of great importance when one considers the current knowledge on sub-clinical hypothyroidism. The critics critics don't bother to analyze the actual data, but tend to concentrate on the author's conclusion which state his doubts about fluoride as an effective anti-thyroid. There is much wrong with that, for if one does not understand thyroid disorders and evaluate the test methods properly, one surely cannot evaluate results correctly. Galetti's conclusions are very much based on knowledge as it was in the year 1958, and he displays severe ignorance about thyroid function and anti-thyroid agents when compared to today's standards. However, it's his DATA that's important. In ALL cases but 1 the Basic Metabolic Rate (BMI) decreased. This was achieved sometimes within 20 days. To evaluate this properly, one needs to understand how anti-thyroid agents work. It is well known in the field of endocrinology that PTU and Methimazole, the two drugs currently used in the treatment of hyperthyroidism, sometimes can take a few months to kick in, due to the thyroid storing large amounts of iodine. Galetti seems to complain about the fact that it took so long, concluding that it was " effective only occasionally among people subjected to massive doses of this substance " (This besides the fact that 6 of 15 patients were completely healed!...average " massive " dose meaning 6mg NaF (2.9 F-) daily, less than half the intake as estimated in 1991 by the US PHS in fluoridated areas =>6.5mg F-) One patient was clinically cured by 2.72 mg F-/day over a period of four month period... --------------------------------------------------------------- #3)IODINE DEFICIENCY OR FLUORIDE EXCESS? EXCERPTS from WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION PRESS RELEASE, May 25, 1999 World Health Organization Sets Out To Elimate Iodine Deficiency Disorders " It affects 740 million people a year. It causes brain disorders, cretinism, miscarriages and goiter. It is the world's single most important and preventable cause of mental retardation. And it is almost unknown...Calling it one 'one of the best kept secrets' the WHO has rededicated itself to eliminating Iodine Deficiency Disorder, or IDD, through an intense programme of salt iodisation and iodine delivery within the next decade. " IDD: The Impact IDD is a significant public health problem in 130 countries, affecting a total of 740 million people. While remarkable measurable progress is being made through universal salt iodization, there are nearly 50 million people estimated to still be affected by some degrees of IDD-related brain damage. One third of the world's population is estimated to be at risk of IDD. Since the passage of a special resolution at the World Health Assembly in 1990 and subsequent resolutions in 1992 and 1996, the Department of Nutrition for Health and Development (NHD) of WHO has worked tirelessly to establish iodisation programmes around the world. The director of the NHD Department, Dr. Graeme Clugston, points out that 'The tragedy is that such a huge global burden of brain damage is still occurring, much of it irreversible, yet less than a single teaspoon of iodine is all a person requires during an entire lifetime.' " ------- Is this really iodine deficiency? Or is Goldemberg right, and it's really caused by excessive fluoride intake through water, food and air and which dose-dependently reduces biologically active iodine in the system and causes biochemical iodine deficiency? We agree with Goldemberg. Let's look at one example - Hong Kong. Water fluoridation was introduced in 1961. Hong Kong is declared an area of Iodine Deficiency. This is completely absurd, as it is in most areas in Asia where sea products are commonly consumed. Both hypo- and hyperthyroidism exist in Hong Kong. A paper was published in 1996 in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition [Kung AWC, Chan LWL, Low LCK, JD - " Existence of iodine deficiency in Hong Kong - A coastal city in southern China " Eur J Clin Nutr 50; 8 (1996)] which shows that " as far as IDD is concerned, Hong Kong is just another big city in China. " (CCPR) The study shows that although Hong Kong is a non-goitrous area, iodine deficiency exists. Iodine intakes, as reflected in urinary iodine excretion, were found to be marginally deficient. The study was done out of concern because a high percentage of newborns were found to have TSH cord blood values greater than 5mIU/l and a high incidence of transient neonatal hypothyroidism. There is NO " iodine deficiency " in Hong Kong. Here is the more than obvious proof: Responding to another study which had found that Chinese children in Hong Kong have a higher incidence of hyperthyroidism, the Consumer Council took steps to inform the public on the adequacy of iodine intake, and in association with the Chinese University of Hong Kong, examined the iodine content of 146 food products including seafood, salt, seaweed products, meat, vegetables, eggs, soy sauce, milk and butter. The amount of iodine customarily consumed in a meal of some dried seafood, e.g. kelp, mussels, seadragon and seahair was shown to be much higher than the WHO recommended daily intake for children or adults. The average iodine concentration of roasted seaweeds is some 400 times higher than that of vegetables. 6 brands of roasted seaweed were found to contain comparatively high iodine concentration. Consuming 2g (about 7 to 8 small slices or 2 small packages) would have exceeded the WHO recommended daily iodine intake for children under 12 years old. 3 milk products were found to contain a particularly high iodine content. Iodine Deficiency? In the WHO South-east Asia region alone maternal and hence fetal " iodine deficiency " is responsible for 101,800 stillbirths and 93,500 neonatal deaths, each year, in the region's eight member countries, NOT EVEN INCLUDING CHINA! FLUORIDE KILLS! REFERENCES: ************************ iodine fluoride intelligence (search) =============== Iodine Deficiency Disorder Newsletter 1991 August Vol. 7 No. 3 The Relationship of a Low-Iodine and High-Fluoride Environment to Subclinical Cretinism in Xinjiang Discussion One hundred and four children with mental retardation were detected in all. Area A had 25%, area B 16%, and area C 8%. The significant differences in IQ among these regions suggests that fluoride can exacerbate central nervous lesions and somatic developmental disturbance caused by iodine deficiency. This may be in keeping with fluoride's known ability to cause degenerative changes in central nervous system cells and to inhibit the activities of many enzymes, including choline enzymes, causing disturbance of the nerve impulse (5). We found significant differences among the three areas, indicating that lack of iodine in children results in disturbance of the process of growth and ossification and that high fluoride intake can further disturb bone development (6,7). Also, the auditory threshold was significantly different among the three areas, with severe loss of hearing in high fluoride and low iodine areas. Severe iodine deficiency in early fetal life has adverse effects on the development and differentiation of the acoustic organ, and we suggest that high fluoride intake may also promote hearing loss. In this study, we found that 69% of the children with mental retardation had elevated TSH levels. IQ and TSH were negatively correlated. Many investigators regard an elevated TSH in the presence of normal T4 and T3 levels as evidence for hypothyroidism that is subclinical but that can still affect the development of brain and cerebral function to some degree (6). Reverse T3 (rT3) is formed from T4 by 3-deiodination in peripheral tissue. The balance of active T3 and inactive rT3 in the serum reflects thyroid hormone economy. In high fluoride and low iodine areas, the rT3 value was 58 ng/dl (the normal value, 21 ng/dl), and the ratio of rT3/T3 was 2.91, significantly low. In areas of low iodine the rT3 value was 32 ng/dl, and the ratio of rT3/T3 was 5.8. It is possible that excess fluoride ion affects normal deiodination. We detected 104 cases with mental retardation among 769 schoolchildren, aged 7-14, in different affected areas. Some 69% of our cases with mental retardation had one or more items of the accessory conditions recommended for the diagnosis of subclinical cretinism by the National Conference on Subclinical Cretinism held in Xinzhou (4). According to the cautious suggestion of Qian Qi-Dong that the diagnosis should require two or more of the accessory conditions, 56% of our cases could still be diagnosed as having subclinical cretinism. Currently, in the vast remote areas of South Xinjiang the control of IDD with iodized salt has not yet been generally implemented and the prevalence of subclinical cretinism is still high. This situation is a great obstacle to the child health, agricultural development, and economic prosperity of minority nationalities in South Xinjiang and necessitates prompt implementation of iodine supplementation to control subclinical cretinism. Summary We studied a total of 769 schoolchildren of 7-14 years in three areas, characterized by intakes of (A) low iodine, high fluoride; ( low iodine, normal fluoride; and © iodine supplemented, normal fluoride. Results for the following parameters for areas A, B, and C, respectively were: (a) average IQ: 71, 77, 96; ( average auditory threshold (in dB): 24, 20, 16; © bone age retardation (%): 28, 13, 4; (d) thyroid 131I uptake (%): 60, 50, 24; and (e) serum TSH (mU/ml): 21, 11, 6. Statistically significant differences existed between these areas, suggesting that a low iodine intake coupled with high fluoride intake exacerbates the central nervous lesions and the somatic developmental disturbance of iodine deficiency. The detection rate of subclinical endemic cretinism in children with mental retardation was 69%, and the total attack rate of subclinical endemic cretinism 9%. References ----------------------------- http://www.slweb.org/bibliography.html Fluoride & Learning/Behavior: Bhatnagar M, et al. (2002). Neurotoxicity of fluoride: neurodegeneration in hippocampus of female mice. Indian Journal of Experimental Biology 40: 546-54. (See abstract <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=12622200 & dopt=Abstract>) Calderon J, et al. (2000). Influence of fluoride exposure on reaction time and visuospatial organization in children. Epidemiology 11(4): S153. (See abstract <http://www.slweb.org/visuospatial.html>) Calvert GM, et al. (1998). Health effects associated with sulfuryl fluoride and methyl bromide exposure among structural fumigation workers. American Journal of Public Health 88(12):1774-80. (See abstract <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=9842373 & dopt=Abstract>) Ekambaram P, V. (2001). Calcium preventing locomotor behavioral and dental toxicities of fluoride by decreasing serum fluoride level in rats. Environmental Toxicology and Pharmacology 9(4):141-146. (See abstract <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=11292576 & dopt=Abstract>) Li XS. (1995). Effect of Fluoride Exposure on Intelligence in Children. Fluoride 28(4):189-192. (See abstract <li1995.html>) Li Y, et al. (1994). [Effect of excessive fluoride intake on mental work capacity of children and a preliminary study of its mechanism] Hua Hsi I Ko Ta Hsueh Hsueh Pao. 25(2):188-91. (See abstract <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=7528715 & dopt=Abstract>) Lin Fa-Fu; et al (1991). The relationship of a low-iodine and high- fluoride environment to subclinical cretinism in Xinjiang. Iodine Deficiency Disorder Newsletter Vol. 7. No. 3. (See study <http://www.slweb.org/IDD.html>) Long YG, et al. (2002). Chronic fluoride toxicity decreases the number of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors in rat brain. Neurotoxicology and Teratology 24(6):751-7. (See abstract <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=12460657 & dopt=Abstract>) Lu Y, et al (2000). Effect of high-fluoride water on intelligence of children. Fluoride 33:74-78. (See abstract <http://www.slweb.org/lu2000.html> | See study <http://www.fluoride- journal.com/00-33-2/332-74.pdf>) Mattsson JL, et al. (1988). Subchronic neurotoxicity in rats of the structural fumigant, sulfuryl fluoride. Neurotoxicology and Teratology 10(2):127-33. (See abstract <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=3398820 & dopt=Abstract>) L, et al (1998). Investigation of the possible associations between fluorosis, fluoride exposure, and childhood behavior problems. Pediatric Dentistry 20: 244-252. (See abstract <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=9783294 & dopt=Abstract>) Mullenix P, et al. (1995).Neurotoxicity of Sodium Fluoride in Rats. Neurotoxicology and Teratology 17:169-177. (See abstract <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=7760776 & dopt=Abstract> | See editorial discussing this study <http://www.fluoride-journal.com/96- 29-2/292-57.htm>) V, et al. (1998). Effects of sodium fluoride on locomotor behavior and a few biochemical parameters in rats. Environmental Toxicology and Pharmacology 6: 187–191. (See abstract <http://www.slweb.org/paul-1998.html>) Schettler T, et al. (2000). Known and suspected developmental neurotoxicants. pp. 90-92. In: In Harms Way - Toxic Threats to Child Development. Greater Boston Physicians for Social Responsibility: Cambridge, MA. (See excerpt <http://www.slweb.org/psr.html>) Spittle B. (2000). Fluoride and Intelligence (Editorial). Fluoride 33: 49-52. (See editorial) <http://www.fluoride-journal.com/00-33- 2/332-49.pdf> Yang Y, et al. (1994). [Effects of high iodine and high fluorine on children's intelligence and the metabolism of iodine and fluorine]. Zhonghua Liu Xing Bing Xue Za Zhi.15(5):296-8. (See abstract <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=7859263 & dopt=Abstract>) Zhang C, et al. (1999). [Effect of fluoride-arsenic exposure on the neurobehavioral development of rats offspring] Wei Sheng Yan Jiu. 28 (6):337-8. (See abstract <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=12016983 & dopt=Abstract>) Zhang Z, et al. (2001). [Effects of selenium on the damage of learning-memory ability of mice induced by fluoride]. Wei Sheng Yan Jiu. 30(3):144-6. (See abstract <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=12525083 & dopt=Abstract>) Zhang Z, et al. (1999). [Effect of fluoride exposure on synaptic structure of brain areas related to learning-memory in mice] [Article in Chinese]. Wei Sheng Yan Jiu 28(4):210-2. (See abstract <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=11938978 & dopt=Abstract>) Zhao LB, et al (1996). Effect of high-fluoride water supply on children's intelligence. Fluoride 29: 190-192. (See abstract <http://www.slweb.org/zhao1996.html>) ============================== blood coagulation fluoride <http://lassesen.com/cfids/coagulation_triggers.htm> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?> cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1568504 & dopt=Abstract Pub Med Fiziol Zh 1992 Mar-Apr;38(2):85-90 [The mechanisms of the action of fluorine on periodontal tissues] [Article in Russian] Silenko IuI, Tsebrzhinskii OI, Mishchenko VP. It is stated that fluoride intoxication promotes a sharp intensification of the peroxidation processes in the parodontium tissues. It is caused by a respirator explosion of neutrophils, a decrease in activity of antioxidant system enzymes, thus leading to disturbances of microcirculation and blood coagulation, ischemia development. The last factor can retard the enzymatic oxidation in a cell due to hypoxia, injures lysosomal membranes promoting partial autolysis of parodontium tissues, cell structures, intercellular substance. The interaction of blood with destructive elements of cells and collagen favours the development of trombohemorrhagic reactions in the parodontium tissues. A generalized damage of parodontium arises which intensifies under the effect of any other pathogenetic factors. PMID: 1568504 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?> cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=483736 & dopt=Abstract Vrach Delo 1979 Aug;(8):106-7 [blood coagulation and fibrinolysis during exposure to fluorides] [Article in Russian] Shkliar AS. PMID: 483736 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ goiter fluoride http://www.fluoridealert.org/f-iodine.htm In 1854 Maumene feeds 10g sodium fluoride (4.5g F-) to a dog and causes a goiter to appear. He was the first to consider fluorides as a cause of goiter. Pighini (1923) is also able to cause goiters in rats, dogs and chicken. Wespi finds mottled teeth (dental fluorosis) together with goiters in Italy. (1954) In 1969 Siddiqui show small visible goiters in persons 14 to 17 years of age in India to be connected directly to high fluoride concentrations in drinking water 1972 Day and - studied 648 people in 13 mountaineous regions in Nepal where the iodine content in the water was low and found a close relationship between fluoride intake and the incidence of goiter Zhao et al (1998) does an extensive study on mice receiving several fluoride-iodine combinations in addition to basal diet. He finds that iodine and fluorine do have mutually interacting effects on both goiter and fluorosis in the experimental mice. Jooste et al (1999) show that goiter occurrence in two iodine- sufficient areas in Africa seem to be once again due to high fluoride water levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 FYI: We avoid fluoride, mercury (and fluorscent lights) as they are know coagulation triggers. > kelp fluoride ( Google Search) > ====================== > http://home.thezone.net/~ampi/fucus.html > Iodine 300.00 > Fluoride 44.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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