Re: A question regarding Jaundice - a

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your reply.

I unfortunately have similar suspicians, that the doxycycline is in

some way responsible. I am worried that discontinuing it could cause

me to relapse

I go back to see the doctor on the 11th, so It isnt long to wait to

question him more thoroughly. I think ill go and purhase some Milk

Thistle today, and give it a try.

Ill also be sure to raise the issue of trying a different antibiotic

when I see him.

Again thanks for this advice,

.

> , my hunch is that you are getting some liver dysfunction

due to the

> longterm antibiotics. I don't know a lot about this but if your doc

is

> willing to let you stay on the antibiotics perhaps you should try

the milk

> thistle. I have heard a lot of patients do well with this for liver

> function. Also, you may want to write Leslee Dudlee, as she really

is an

> expert on many of these antibiotic issues. I think the antibiotics

are the

> most likely cause of this jaundice. Also, I think early liver

problem

> symptoms show up before liver function tests become abnormal. One

more

> thought - you could stop the antibiotics for a month and see if the

jaundice

> clears up. If it does then you may want to switch to a different

antibiotic.

> I think we had talked about this idea anyway.

> a

>

[Guest guest]

Don't be afraid, . Stopping the doxy for a month will not be enough

time to allow a relapse. You will be okay, and maybe better on a different

antibiotic. Even antibiotic resistance can be reduced if you stop an

antibiotic for awhile because the germs mutate around very often for bad or

good.

a

> Thanks for your reply.

> I unfortunately have similar suspicians, that the doxycycline is in

> some way responsible. I am worried that discontinuing it could cause

> me to relapse

> I go back to see the doctor on the 11th, so It isnt long to wait to

> question him more thoroughly. I think ill go and purhase some Milk

> Thistle today, and give it a try.

> Ill also be sure to raise the issue of trying a different antibiotic

> when I see him.

> Again thanks for this advice,

>

> .

>

>

>

>

> > , my hunch is that you are getting some liver dysfunction

> due to the

> > longterm antibiotics. I don't know a lot about this but if your doc

> is

> > willing to let you stay on the antibiotics perhaps you should try

> the milk

> > thistle. I have heard a lot of patients do well with this for liver

> > function. Also, you may want to write Leslee Dudlee, as she really

> is an

> > expert on many of these antibiotic issues. I think the antibiotics

> are the

> > most likely cause of this jaundice. Also, I think early liver

> problem

> > symptoms show up before liver function tests become abnormal. One

> more

> > thought - you could stop the antibiotics for a month and see if the

> jaundice

> > clears up. If it does then you may want to switch to a different

> antibiotic.

> > I think we had talked about this idea anyway.

> > a

> >

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

a, Maybe we can moderate your statement a little... and say it will probably

not cause a " major " relapse... I was talked into stopping antibiotics after 3

years, and was off only 6 weeks and got much sicker. I started the doxy again

before it came a major relapse, but I am definitely worse and am now having to

go through the herx process again. Of course, Jonathon, it sounds like you

might be getting sick from your antibiotics and might not have a choice. But

you deserve to know that you might get worse in the meantime.

Thanks,

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: a Carnes

Stopping the doxy for a month will not be enough

time to allow a relapse.

[Guest guest]

Good point, Doris. I expect he will relapse somewhat. But generally the

return to where you recovered to is not as long. Also, I think, and his

doctor seems to think also, that he might want to try a different

antibiotic. He going to have to take care of liver function.

a

> a, Maybe we can moderate your statement a little... and say it will

probably not cause a " major " relapse... I was talked into stopping

antibiotics after 3 years, and was off only 6 weeks and got much sicker. I

started the doxy again before it came a major relapse, but I am definitely

worse and am now having to go through the herx process again. Of course,

Jonathon, it sounds like you might be getting sick from your antibiotics and

might not have a choice. But you deserve to know that you might get worse

in the meantime.

> Thanks,

> Doris

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: a Carnes

>

> Stopping the doxy for a month will not be enough

> time to allow a relapse.

[Guest guest]

Thanks to both of you for your advice.

I figure I will not be off the anti-biotics for a long time (probably

two weeks), and I think Nicolson recommends 6 week cycles with two

week breaks in between after completeing 6 months of continuous

therapy, which I have done.

I was thinking today, If doxycycline has a half life of 18 hours, and

Ive been taking 200mg a day continously without break, wouldnt the

concentration build up to a higher and higher level, until eventually

it would become toxic? Maybe someone more knowledgeable than myself

could answer that question.

.

> Good point, Doris. I expect he will relapse somewhat. But generally

the

> return to where you recovered to is not as long. Also, I think, and

his

> doctor seems to think also, that he might want to try a different

> antibiotic. He going to have to take care of liver function.

> a

>

> > a, Maybe we can moderate your statement a little... and say

it will

> probably not cause a " major " relapse... I was talked into stopping

> antibiotics after 3 years, and was off only 6 weeks and got much

sicker. I

> started the doxy again before it came a major relapse, but I am

definitely

> worse and am now having to go through the herx process again. Of

course,

> Jonathon, it sounds like you might be getting sick from your

antibiotics and

> might not have a choice. But you deserve to know that you might

get worse

> in the meantime.

> > Thanks,

> > Doris

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: a Carnes

> >

> > Stopping the doxy for a month will not be enough

> > time to allow a relapse.

[Guest guest]

Btw, I can't help but wondering, what other substances you might be

consuming that may be additionally taxing your liver. You are not

taking pain relievers are you? Even pesticides can tax liver so you

may have to eat organic to make it easy on your liver. You are

scared to take a break from abx but if you don't your liver might not

continue on its course? Things to consider. Sorry if this is no

help.

> > , my hunch is that you are getting some liver dysfunction

> due to the

> > longterm antibiotics. I don't know a lot about this but if your

doc

> is

> > willing to let you stay on the antibiotics perhaps you should try

> the milk

> > thistle. I have heard a lot of patients do well with this for

liver

> > function. Also, you may want to write Leslee Dudlee, as she

really

> is an

> > expert on many of these antibiotic issues. I think the

antibiotics

> are the

> > most likely cause of this jaundice. Also, I think early liver

> problem

> > symptoms show up before liver function tests become abnormal. One

> more

> > thought - you could stop the antibiotics for a month and see if

the

> jaundice

> > clears up. If it does then you may want to switch to a different

> antibiotic.

> > I think we had talked about this idea anyway.

> > a

> >

[Guest guest]

No, mathematically you would reach a steady state, it doesn't keep climbing and

climbing.

I took 300mg a day for a long time without side effects, but I believe there are

differences in how much our livers can handle. There were some people

cautioning about my taking such a high dose for such a long time, but I never

had any of thekinds of live problems you seem to have. On the other hand people

with lyme take 400mg a day I believe.

Thanks,

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: tiredjonoaus <jligh000@...>

I was thinking today, If doxycycline has a half life of 18 hours, and

Ive been taking 200mg a day continously without break, wouldnt the

concentration build up to a higher and higher level, until eventually

it would become toxic? Maybe someone more knowledgeable than myself

could answer that question.

[Guest guest]

,

No, it doesn't work that way. You don't want the drug to be totally

out of your system at any time. You want to maintain a steadystate

average concentration that is high enough to stay within the

therapeutic range for the drug, i.e., where it will be effective. I

don't know whether you are taking the whole 200 mg once per day, or

whether you are taking 100 mg every 12 hours, but either way, what

happens is after taking it for a few days, the concentration in the

blood will achieve a steadystate average value, and the actual

concentration will oscillate up and down around this value, with the

graph of the concentration plotted vs. time looking sort of like the

teeth on a saw. If you take it once a day, the " teeth " will be

bigger and spaced farther apart than if you do it every twelve

hours. The dosing interval is established based on the half-life,

because it is desired to keep the concentration always high enough

that it is in the therapeutic range of concentration for that

particular drug, i.e. so that it is high enough to do some good.

For example, if the half-life of a drug was only four hours, and the

person took it once every 24 hours, the concentration would drop

down by a factor of 2 raised to the (24 divided by 4) or sixth

power, which would amount to a factor of 64, between doses, and the

drug wouldn't be effective except for a small fraction of the day,

just after each dose. For doxycycline, with a half-life of about 18

to 22 hours, by raising the individual dose high enough, you can get

away with only taking it once a day and still have the concentration

stay high enough to be within the therapeutic range, but splitting

the dose in half and taking it twice a day is better, because it

keeps the concentration a little higher and more steady during the

day. I hope this is written clearly enough to be understandable.

Rich

> I was thinking today, If doxycycline has a half life of 18 hours,

and

> Ive been taking 200mg a day continously without break, wouldnt the

> concentration build up to a higher and higher level, until

eventually

> it would become toxic?

>

>

> .