immunosuppressive effect of abx, lyme, rotation of abx--my cummulative thoughts

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/16/03 6:04:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,

writes:

> I haven't posted here in a long time, though my mother, Sue B., posts

> frequently. My question is about the possible immunosuppressive effects of

> some antibiotics.

>

> I was reading a 2001 paper by Garth Nicolson about using antibiotics to

> treat CFS, rheumatoid arthritis and other illnesses. In this paper I saw a

> passing reference to the issue of antibiotics suppressing the immune

> system.

> Here's the quote from Nicolson's paper: " The clinical responses that are

> seen are not due to placebo effects, because administration of some

> antibiotics, such as penicillins, resulted in patients becoming more not

> less symptomatic. In addition, they are not due to immunosuppressive

> effects

> of some of the antibiotics, because other antibiotics that do not cause

> immune suppression are also effective but only if they suppress the chronic

> infections. If they don't have these infections, then antibiotics should

> not

> work. " (See http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/id/4243

> for the whole paper, which is billed as follows: Autoimmune Neurological &

> Rheumatic Diseases: Role of Chronic Infections in Morbidity and

> Progression.

> Proc. 13th International Symposium on Integrative Medicine 2001;

> 13:104-112.

> Prof. Garth L. Nicolson and L. Nicolson)

>

> My questions are these: does anyone know which antibiotics are considered

> immunosuppressive? What is the mechanism of the possible

> immunosuppression?

> What does this mean in practical terms?

>

> This issue is of interest to me right now because I'm being treated with

> Rocephin and Zithromax for Lyme and Mycoplasma fermentans.

>

, I have more interest in this area as well as I already have

prescriptions for Zithromax, Biaxin and Doxycycline to get filled and used at

any time I wish. My LLMD gave them to me as going away gift when I moved

from Hampton Roads VA two weeks ago. I called her the other day about

results from my IGeneX WB's I had done and low and behold I think she said my

IgG was negative but my IgM was positive. I am not flipping out over this

and will next have my sites aimed on doing IGeneX's 3 day LDA/PCR urine test

done with 5 day provocative abx (taking Biaxin and then collecting urine last

3 days which yields higher likelihood of " catching " the DNA of the lyme that

is released into the bladder over those 3 of 5 days). I am taking my time

for now as this is $295 test. If I ever chose to do abx I think it will be

with rotation so as not to bombard the body with continued usage of abx and

possibly suppress the immune system as you are certainly justified in being

cautious as am I. I think Dr. Burascana (sp?), the popular lyme guru uses

abx rotation. I asked my LLMD about this and she said he suggests that the

lyme don't like to come out in the blood too often and so once you take abx

for a while and knock it down you can get off abx and give it a chance to

come back out before wiping it out again. I don't know if this approach

works for mycoplasmas as well. If I truly have lyme then I would be

interested in learning more about " zappers " using frequencies to kill the

lyme. So far it is interesting that the IGeneX WB backs up the Bowen results

that I saw in the pictures they took of my blood where I saw a supposed

borellia burgdorferi in my blood along with a babesia hanging out in my blood

cells. MDL showed babesia as negative on both their WB and PCR but I think

eventually I will want to use IGeneX FISH test to rule out babesia as well.

Interesting stuff. Another CFS friend of mine asks why I don't use my abx if

I have them. The decision is simple. I save my " A bomb " for last resort. I

see too many people do long term abx and get off and then lyme comes back.

So if it is mercury that is causing my immune system to be lacking and the

DMPS is causing continued benefit in that category then I simply continue on

my current protocol which at least seems to be causing me to get better and

better. THEN, after much of the mercury is out and I feel much better than

even now if I chose at that time to go on abx I will do so with the mindset

that the abx is only an adjunct therapy and not the main course. I would be

trying to kill lyme with herbs as well as the zapper machines/apparatuses

(one's called a Rith or something like that--can't remember how to spell it)

so as to hit it with everything I humanly know how, not just abx alone and

not at this point in the game--still a little too early to make a full

frontal attack on the possible invaders. Also, in addition to that there is

still all this talk of staph/CNS/Shoemaker and I want to see what comes of

that and maybe have to do his protocol to ensure killing the lyme better and

it not coming back as Shoemaker says it will likely do unless the CNS is

treated. Now does everyone here see why I choose to not do abx at this

point? Way too much going on right now to just jump blindly into an abx

throwaround and hope to knock something down that may not be there and cause

immunosuppressive effects at a time I am at least continuing to get better at

a very slow rate. Anyone who knows me knows that I am very hollistic in my

approach to attacking CFS and like to leave no stone unturned. It is

supprising to me to see some with maybe a decade or two of CFS under their

belt and be closeminded to something like lyme or mercury as if they can be

so picky in their choices of how to get well. I think it is the ironic

effect of seeing so many guru docs not being able to really heal their

patients and so many products come and go as false hopes that keeps them from

being open to future theories to CFS. The way I look at it, the more false

things that have come and gone in the past the more likely we are to get a

cure to each of our own illnesses. As a stated in a recent post, CFS is

moreless a misdiagnosis in each of us and that is why it is up to each of us

to try to find our own source(s) of CFS, whether it be mercury, depleted

glutathione, lyme, mycoplasmas, herpes family, circadium rhythm being screwed

up, or combination of many of the above or yet unknamed pathogens or sources

that are screwing up our bodies and immune systems. Good luck to you on your

course.