Guest guest Posted November 13, 2002 Report Share Posted November 13, 2002 Nil, Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work that way. These two phases seem to be able to function independently of each other. I say " unfortunately " because a person who has a Phase 1 detox operating faster than their Phase 2 tends to build up intermediate substances that are sometimes more toxic than the original toxins. For this reason, such people have been called " pathological detoxifiers. " It's important to get the Phase 2 operating up at normal rates in order to prevent this condition. Rich > Rich, > > If phase 2 detox is impaired,I would think that phase 1 detox will automatically shut down by the body. Would you think this reasoning is correct? > Thanks. > Nil > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2002 Report Share Posted November 13, 2002 Thanks Rich, I found this info while searching at web " Pathological detoxifiers / Liver backlog Phase I produces more than Phase II can handle. highly sensitive to fumes eg paints, perfumes react adversely to various pharmaceutical drugs may react to drinking caffeine So should I try to inhibit Phase I? " May find it useful to include grapefruit juice in their diet " says Kimber grapefruit juice inhibits Cyp3A4 for other inhibitors see P450 Perturbation MiDobs on the AMALGAM list says " Someone who (still/now) has normal Phase I but poor Phase II sulfation, as a result of mercury poisoning, can take glucosamine sulfate while dealing with the mercury. " [That'san interesting possibility, how can I check it?](see directions for access) " full article http://www.loudzen.com/canary/metabolic_basis/detox.html So,who are these people?Is this a specific illness or does it happen as result of some illnesses.This sounds like multiple chemical sensistivity. Thanks. Nil Re: Rich Liver detox | Nil, | | Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work that way. These two phases | seem to be able to function independently of each other. I | say " unfortunately " because a person who has a Phase 1 detox | operating faster than their Phase 2 tends to build up intermediate | substances that are sometimes more toxic than the original toxins. | For this reason, such people have been called " pathological | detoxifiers. " It's important to get the Phase 2 operating up at | normal rates in order to prevent this condition. | | Rich | | | > Rich, | > | > If phase 2 detox is impaired,I would think that phase 1 detox will | automatically shut down by the body. Would you think this reasoning | is correct? | > Thanks. | > Nil | > | > | > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2002 Report Share Posted November 13, 2002 Hi everyone, I just read that turmeric slows down the phase 1 detox whilst helping phase 2 detox. Has anyone tried it? Thanks. Nil Re: Rich Liver detox | Nil, | | Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work that way. These two phases | seem to be able to function independently of each other. I | say " unfortunately " because a person who has a Phase 1 detox | operating faster than their Phase 2 tends to build up intermediate | substances that are sometimes more toxic than the original toxins. | For this reason, such people have been called " pathological | detoxifiers. " It's important to get the Phase 2 operating up at | normal rates in order to prevent this condition. | | Rich | | | > Rich, | > | > If phase 2 detox is impaired,I would think that phase 1 detox will | automatically shut down by the body. Would you think this reasoning | is correct? | > Thanks. | > Nil | > | > | > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2002 Report Share Posted November 13, 2002 Kathy, It will probably take some more time. How much do you use? Thanks..Nil Re: Re: Rich Liver detox | Hi Nil- | | I have been using Tumeric for two weeks now. At the same time, I am also | using mothers wort tea and powder. And now that you mention if, I have | noticed that my urine has a distinctive smell to it since using these two | herbs. | Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2002 Report Share Posted November 13, 2002 Hi Nil- I have been using Tumeric for two weeks now. At the same time, I am also using mothers wort tea and powder. And now that you mention if, I have noticed that my urine has a distinctive smell to it since using these two herbs. It's hard to to describe as it is not like a strong urine smell when I am not drinking enough water. Best way to describe it is that there is a pharmaceutical manufacturing plant in this area and on the days when they are making the anitbiotics, there is a distinctive odor from the fumes that the plant emits into the air. It sort of smells like that. Other than that, I have no noticed any other changes. Not that I would know what to be looking for anyway! Kathy Re: Rich Liver detox > > > | Nil, > | > | Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work that way. These two phases > | seem to be able to function independently of each other. I > | say " unfortunately " because a person who has a Phase 1 detox > | operating faster than their Phase 2 tends to build up intermediate > | substances that are sometimes more toxic than the original toxins. > | For this reason, such people have been called " pathological > | detoxifiers. " It's important to get the Phase 2 operating up at > | normal rates in order to prevent this condition. > | > | Rich > | > | > | > Rich, > | > > | > If phase 2 detox is impaired,I would think that phase 1 detox will > | automatically shut down by the body. Would you think this reasoning > | is correct? > | > Thanks. > | > Nil > | > > | > > | > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2002 Report Share Posted November 13, 2002 Nil, I think it would be better to speed up Phase 2 rather than to slow down Phase 1. If you slow down Phase 1, there will be a lot of toxins that will stay in your body longer and rise to higher concentrations. Some people take turmeric, which simultaneously slows Phase 1 and speeds Phase 2, thus tending to bring them into balance if the Phase 1 is running faster than the Phase 2. Generally, though, I think the best idea is to get them both up to proper speed. Rich > | > Rich, > | > > | > If phase 2 detox is impaired,I would think that phase 1 detox will > | automatically shut down by the body. Would you think this reasoning > | is correct? > | > Thanks. > | > Nil > | > > | > > | > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2002 Report Share Posted November 13, 2002 Nil- She has me using the mothers wort tea three times per day and the powder with all foods. I also throw in turmeric into everything I eat. My daily food intake is very low so I am probably only taking about about 1 tsp of turmeric per day. I am actually the turmeric per my herbalist to help digest carbs. I did not realise the potential to balance Phase 1 and Phase 2. I am still not sure what I would notice if they did come into balance...perhaps it's already happening and I just don't know it. Kathy Re: Re: Rich Liver detox > > > | Hi Nil- > | > | I have been using Tumeric for two weeks now. At the same time, I am also > | using mothers wort tea and powder. And now that you mention if, I have > | noticed that my urine has a distinctive smell to it since using these two > | herbs. > | > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 Nil, I think Dr. Cheney might say that some of these people got this way through high Rnase-l activity. High Rnase-l, of course, inhibits protein synthesis. And, since the liver has such a high protein sythesis rate naturally, it is one of the first things to get mangled by Rnase-l remaining high for an unnatural period of time. The damaged liver then contributes to higher levels of circulating toxins of all types, which in a matter of months will begin to injure the brain, particularly the hypothalamus. And things just go down hill from there. So, what keeps Rnase-l unnaturally high? This has to do with the Th1/Th2 immune shift. Th1 is what tells Rnase-1 to quite down. But, if the Th1 function never arrives, Rnase-1 just keeps suppressing protein snythesis for an extended period of time. Why is Th1 dysfunctional? This is a good question. I'm not sure we have all the answers to this immune alteration yet, but we may have some clues. Some have posted that mercury in vaccinations alters the developing immune system of babies, and causes a lifelong Th2 bias. Perhaps, other toxins in our environment might do the same? Others have noted that some viruses like EBV seem to encourage a Th2 shift as an evasive survival mechanism. Interesting. The genetics that are possibly coming to light are very interesting too. There may be evidence that, some people are born with a Th2 bias genetically. Thus, with the proper triggers, they will manifest this syndrome. If it all wasn't so difficult to live, it would be quite fascinating from an intellectual standpoint. (If I have made any errors in the above, someone please correct, or add to what I have said ! My apologies to the old timers for this repetition.) Best, Zippy ================================================================ >>So,who are these people?Is this a specific illness or does it happen as result of some illnesses.This sounds like multiple chemical sensistivity. Thanks. Nil<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 Donna, It depends on which pathway or pathways in the Phase 2 detox are slow. One of these pathways is glutathione conjugation, and it is often the one that's slow in CFS. If that's the case, then undenatured whey protein can be helpful in many cases, so long as there is no allergy to whey proteins and the mercury level is not too high. You can find out whether any of the Phase 2 pathways are slow with a Comprehensive Detox Profile, such as the one offerred by www.gsdl.com. Typical dosages for turmeric are 1.5 to 3 grams per day, according to the German Commission E Monographs and the PDR for Herbal Medicines. Contraindications are blockage of bile ducts and pregnancy. People who have gallstones or who are taking anticoagulant drugs (such as heparin or coumadin or warfarin) should discuss use of turmeric with their physicians before doing it. Rich > And how do you do that. With whey? Also, how much tumeric is taken to speed 2 and slow 1? > > Thanks > Donna > Ynt: Re: Rich Liver detox > > > Nil, > > I think it would be better to speed up Phase 2 rather than to slow > down Phase 1. If you slow down Phase 1, there will be a lot of > toxins that will stay in your body longer and rise to higher > concentrations. Some people take turmeric, which simultaneously > slows Phase 1 and speeds Phase 2, thus tending to bring them into > balance if the Phase 1 is running faster than the Phase 2. > Generally, though, I think the best idea is to get them both up to > proper speed. > > Rich > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 Have no idea on how much is required. My ayurvedist had told me to use it with everything I eat. Thanks. Nil Re: Re: Rich Liver detox | And how do you do that. With whey? Also, how much tumeric is taken to speed 2 and slow 1? | | Thanks | Donna | ----- Original Message ----- | From: rvankonynen | Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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