Guest guest Posted March 20, 2002 Report Share Posted March 20, 2002 Hello , Sorry you are having a hard time with the B12. It's taken about 10 days for the worse of the healing crisis to pass, and I'm not sure that I'm actually completely out of it. When I start again, it will be at even a lower dose than I was doing (had been at .3 cc) and I will space out the injections. And see how my body responds. Is this better than getting on a regimen and trying to keep with it for awhile to see if things fall in place? I don't know. My tendency is to stop what seems to cause harm. Is it better to go deeper into a healing crisis or allow the body to catch up and give it just enough so that you get the benefits? Wish I knew. I will continue with a conservative approach, given that I don't have a whiz doctor to accompany me in this. Take care, Carole -----Message d'origine----- De : j_bdules [mailto:j_bdules@...] Envoyé : 20 mars, 2002 09:06 À : Objet : Re: B12 detox Hi. Carole, your experience with B12 injections sounds similar to mine...I've tried them on 2 separate occasions (hydroxo, 10000 mcg/ml), and each time felt noticeably better (better stamina especially, overall energy improved a bit) for a week or so, then not so sure...this time, i increased from .5cc nightly to 1 cc at night to help my sleep, and though i was sleeping a bit better, i was feeling considerably worse, so i reduced the dose and have still been doing awfully. just overall stamina has been horrible for me. i've felt like this for about 2 1/2 weeks now, on .6 cc nightly, then quit them altogether 3 days ago. it made such a noticeable difference in the beginning--i'm starting to think of doing injections 3 times a week or something. now it's been 3 days without any injections and i'm still about the same...hard to tell what to think with this! how long did you go without the b12 before feeling the healing crisis pass? Also, Jan, you said you took 5 mg. did you mean milligram or microgram? the sublingual is almost always in microgram i think...5 mg is a massive dose. > Hi Carole, > > Sounds like you had a similar reaction. I haven't > taken any more B12 yet, but think I will go for a > small regular dose and see what happens. On the > positive side, that big healing crisis I had seems to > have made a big difference to my head symptoms. This > leads me to believe that at least toxins are being > moved out of the brain and not into it. I'm thinking > clearer and feel cleaner inside and I would like to > maintain this. Presumably if we stop taking it, the > toxins will just stay put. Guess we'll get a feel for > our tolerance level as we progress. > Good luck with it, > Warm regards, > Jan (Aust) > --- Carole Sierpien <sierpien@m...> wrote: > > Hello Jan, > > > > I have been experiencing something similar, I think, > > but with hydroxy. > > About 2 weeks ago, started injecting .3 cc of > > hydroxy (at 10 000 mcg/ml > > strenght) every few days. At first, felt much > > energy, clear thinking, > > better sleep, thought it was a godsend. Then > > started getting headaches and > > muscle aches and periods of near delirium, woozy and > > confused. This seems > > to last for a day or so before clearing off and then > > returning. I stopped > > the injections, but the cycling with the symptoms is > > still happening. I > > wonder, like you, if too much detoxing is going on. > > As if the B12 mobilized > > a large amount of toxins, and the body is, at its > > rhythm, flushing it out. > > Meanwhile, the symptoms. Question is, to start > > again or wait for this to > > quiet down. Don't want to go into a major healing > > crisis. > > > > Carole > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Jan [mailto:atranceformer@y...] > > Envoyé : 17 mars, 2002 23:47 > > À : @y... > > Objet : B12 detox > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I've been trying to get my head round all the posts > > on > > B12, hydroxy vs methyl. If I understand right, the > > hydroxy is better at detoxing than the methyl? I > > took the sublingual methyl, took 1 mg sublingual for > > 2 > > days and felt bit worse, no big deal, but brain fog > > better. Couple days ago, took 5 mg for 2 days and > > didn't know what hit me. > > > > Regards, > > Jan (Aust) This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2002 Report Share Posted March 20, 2002 - your injections are 10,000mcg (= 10 milligram) per ml, so you are taking 5mg to 10mg yourself. It is not surprising to me that the sublinguals would have roughly the same dose, although this dose is way above that found in most vit B pills. (as you point out, usually micrograms, not mg) My question is - and I have seen this discussed before but not sure I trusted the answers - what is the difference between taking 5mg of methyl or hydroxy sublingually and taking the same amount by injection? How much ends up in the blood or tissues in each case? n At 01:06 21/03/02, wrote: >Also, Jan, you said you took 5 mg. did you mean milligram or >microgram? the sublingual is almost always in microgram i think...5 >mg is a massive dose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2002 Report Share Posted March 20, 2002 Right - my Jarrow sublingual is 5mg. I just don't see why anyone would go to the much greater trouble of using injections if the sublinguals really have the same effect, but stranger things do happen in CFS! I use the tablets because the injections tend to get expensive and I don't want to have to justify yet another thing to my doctor who is already squirming in despair at the information that I bring. n At 10:32 21/03/02, you wrote: >oh. yeah. i guess what i meant is that you usually don't hear of >sublingual b12 available in those sort of doses...hence, people who >want to try the really high dose therapy doing injection. > >there had been several studies posted about sublingual vs. injected >b12 to treat deficiency, with the sublingual in some studies having >about the same effect. i know that several in the group had >mentioned alternating injections with taking the stuff sublingually, >or experimenting between the two at comparable doses, and seeing a >difference there (injected having a better effect). but who knows... > >julia > > > > - your injections are 10,000mcg (= 10 milligram) per ml, so >you are > > taking 5mg to 10mg yourself. It is not surprising to me that the > > sublinguals would have roughly the same dose, although this dose is >way > > above that found in most vit B pills. (as you point out, usually > > micrograms, not mg) > > > > My question is - and I have seen this discussed before but not sure >I > > trusted the answers - what is the difference between taking 5mg of >methyl > > or hydroxy sublingually and taking the same amount by injection? >How much > > ends up in the blood or tissues in each case? > > > > >This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each >other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment >discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2002 Report Share Posted March 20, 2002 In a message dated 3/21/02 12:01:21 AM Mountain Standard Time, .Porter3@... writes: > > n, > I am one of those who has been taking B12 through using sublingual > tablets rather than using injections. The results of this approach have > shown that it is just as effective as injections as proven by blood tests > taken after several weeks of using sublingual tablets. > My Doctor had my blood tested after I had been using sublingual B12 > for several weeks showing very clearly that I was correctly absorbing the > B12 without any problems, and the blood concentration was just as good as > could be expected had I been injected with B12. In addition, a report > published showed that sublingual administration is just as effective as > using injections, but for reasons that were not made clear, many Doctors > still hang on to the belief that injection is the best method. Perhaps this > comes from the improvement in oral administration that was, some years ago, > not as good as the injection method. > Perhaps it's worth remembering that most people get their B12 from > food that for obvious reasons uses the oral route ; Had you tested your blood levels of B12 before you started and found it to be low? Do you feel any better using oral B12? My understanding, and I have seen documentation, is that levels of b12 in the blood can be entirely normal and yet severely deficient in the cerebrospinal fluid, this doing nothing to protect the brain-which is the whole idea. Although no one can say why, the shots do get it into the CS fluid. I am taking the shots, and after 10 mos I am having a kind of rebirth, esp. mentally. I was really scared, because I was declining so badly, dementia was not far ahead, and I had a contingincy plan-a consolation, really- of how I would end my suffering if it got really bad. I don't have any need for such a plan now. Now my question and plan is just what to do with the life I am receiving. My mood seems more balanced than it has ever been, and I seem able to tolerate larger doses of the things that give me energy without feeling weird. Also have less pain in my feet. I hadn't understood 'till the burning went away that I had had neuropathy. (It seems my other joints are better too, but that may just be because we are having a drought.) Peace, Adrienne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2002 Report Share Posted March 20, 2002 n, I am one of those who has been taking B12 through using sublingual tablets rather than using injections. The results of this approach have shown that it is just as effective as injections as proven by blood tests taken after several weeks of using sublingual tablets. My Doctor had my blood tested after I had been using sublingual B12 for several weeks showing very clearly that I was correctly absorbing the B12 without any problems, and the blood concentration was just as good as could be expected had I been injected with B12. In addition, a report published showed that sublingual administration is just as effective as using injections, but for reasons that were not made clear, many Doctors still hang on to the belief that injection is the best method. Perhaps this comes from the improvement in oral administration that was, some years ago, not as good as the injection method. Perhaps it's worth remembering that most people get their B12 from food that for obvious reasons uses the oral route! Regards, Andy Re: Re: B12 detox > Right - my Jarrow sublingual is 5mg. I just don't see why anyone would go > to the much greater trouble of using injections if the sublinguals really > have the same effect, but stranger things do happen in CFS! I use the > tablets because the injections tend to get expensive and I don't want to > have to justify yet another thing to my doctor who is already squirming in > despair at the information that I bring. > > n > > At 10:32 21/03/02, you wrote: > >oh. yeah. i guess what i meant is that you usually don't hear of > >sublingual b12 available in those sort of doses...hence, people who > >want to try the really high dose therapy doing injection. > > > >there had been several studies posted about sublingual vs. injected > >b12 to treat deficiency, with the sublingual in some studies having > >about the same effect. i know that several in the group had > >mentioned alternating injections with taking the stuff sublingually, > >or experimenting between the two at comparable doses, and seeing a > >difference there (injected having a better effect). but who knows... > > > >julia > > > > > > > - your injections are 10,000mcg (= 10 milligram) per ml, so > >you are > > > taking 5mg to 10mg yourself. It is not surprising to me that the > > > sublinguals would have roughly the same dose, although this dose is > >way > > > above that found in most vit B pills. (as you point out, usually > > > micrograms, not mg) > > > > > > My question is - and I have seen this discussed before but not sure > >I > > > trusted the answers - what is the difference between taking 5mg of > >methyl > > > or hydroxy sublingually and taking the same amount by injection? > >How much > > > ends up in the blood or tissues in each case? > > > > > > > > > >This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > >other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > >discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 Thanks and Adrienne - very useful info. Has anyone taken B12 both orally AND by injection for extended periods who can make a comparison? n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 In a message dated 3/21/02 7:30:27 AM Mountain Standard Time, j_bdules@... writes: > but is it the shots in particular or just the high doses, so > that the b12, in high concentration, can cross the blood brain > barrier more efficiently for whatever reason? I don't really know the answer. I think you can take as much orally as by injection, but then it has to pass thru the digestive tract and obviously that could make a big (negative) difference. All I really know is that I am real happy with the effect of the shots, even tho I don't like doing them.(For anyone who cares; I don't jab it in, I push it in, after first just resting it on my skin. I have found that 2 pleces only 1/4 " apart can differ considerably in degree of pain.) I don't even seem to need them on a daily basis now. I skip a couple of da/wk. Adrienne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 Most definitely burning pain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 I know there has been a lot said about B-12 in the last couple of days. My question to the Group is this - do you find the B-12 (sublingual either/or injection) helps with reducing all types of pain (ie. muscle and joint pain, burning pain, shooting pain etc.)? I've tried B-12 shots in the past but may go back to them depending on what I hear back from the Group as it relates to pain. Thanks. J.M. Re: Re: B12 detox In a message dated 3/21/02 7:30:27 AM Mountain Standard Time, j_bdules@... writes: > but is it the shots in particular or just the high doses, so > that the b12, in high concentration, can cross the blood brain > barrier more efficiently for whatever reason? I don't really know the answer. I think you can take as much orally as by injection, but then it has to pass thru the digestive tract and obviously that could make a big (negative) difference. All I really know is that I am real happy with the effect of the shots, even tho I don't like doing them.(For anyone who cares; I don't jab it in, I push it in, after first just resting it on my skin. I have found that 2 pleces only 1/4 " apart can differ considerably in degree of pain.) I don't even seem to need them on a daily basis now. I skip a couple of da/wk. Adrienne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 You realize that you are also taking 5-10mg with your shots, right? 10000mcg/ml is 10mg/cc. I only had these type of symptoms for the first two days, and again when I start after not taking it for a while (like when they ran out, etc.) But it does give me pretty bad acne. I imagine this is from toxins exiting the skin, although I guess it could just be a direct reaction to the B12. Cheney mentioned it somewhere. I am sticking to 5mg and not increasing and hope the acne will go away eventually. Other than the acne, I only have good things to say. Better sleep, think better. I hope you find a dose that worse for you. Thanks, Doris Re: B12 detox Hi. Carole, your experience with B12 injections sounds similar to mine...I've tried them on 2 separate occasions (hydroxo, 10000 mcg/ml), and each time felt noticeably better (better stamina especially, overall energy improved a bit) for a week or so, then not so sure...this time, i increased from .5cc nightly to 1 cc at night to help my sleep, and though i was sleeping a bit better, i was feeling considerably worse, so i reduced the dose and have still been doing awfully. just overall stamina has been horrible for me. i've felt like this for about 2 1/2 weeks now, on .6 cc nightly, then quit them altogether 3 days ago. it made such a noticeable difference in the beginning--i'm starting to think of doing injections 3 times a week or something. now it's been 3 days without any injections and i'm still about the same...hard to tell what to think with this! how long did you go without the b12 before feeling the healing crisis pass? Also, Jan, you said you took 5 mg. did you mean milligram or microgram? the sublingual is almost always in microgram i think...5 mg is a massive dose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 In his book Encyclopedia of Nutritional Supplements, Murray argues that oral B12 is as good as and a lot cheaper than shots. He says the US habit of relying on injections has arisen thro ignorance by medics. It is true that in amounts which exceed the patients levels of intrinsic factor, which aids absorbtion, the absorbtion rate is only on average I think 1.2%. However, that just means you take correspondingly more. Certainly, I find that oral hydroxycobalamin (with co-factor) works well for me. I use the one by BioCare. It is swallowed, and I would want to be sure that sublingual could not pull mercury out of the fillings before trying it. Can anyone give that assurance? Rob Re: Re: B12 detox > In a message dated 3/21/02 7:30:27 AM Mountain Standard Time, > j_bdules@... writes: > > > but is it the shots in particular or just the high doses, so > > that the b12, in high concentration, can cross the blood brain > > barrier more efficiently for whatever reason? > > I don't really know the answer. I think you can take as much orally as by > injection, but then it has to pass thru the digestive tract and obviously > that could make a big (negative) difference. > All I really know is that I am real happy with the effect of the shots, even > tho I don't like doing them.(For anyone who cares; I don't jab it in, I push > it in, after first just resting it on my skin. I have found that 2 pleces > only 1/4 " apart can differ considerably in degree of pain.) > I don't even seem to need them on a daily basis now. I skip a couple of > da/wk. > Adrienne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 In a message dated 3/21/02 1:52:55 PM Mountain Standard Time, robnapier@... writes: > Certainly, I find that oral hydroxycobalamin (with co-factor) works well for > me. I am very glad to hear this! Of course the proof of the pudding is in the eating! Could you give more detail of how much you use, and what the benefits are for you. Also, how long did you use it before noticing an effect (I could tell after the first shot.) How long have you been taking it?Did you ever try shots? I know people that could benefit from b12 but who won't take shots. Would love to be able to tell them about this alternative. Adrienne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 Duhh; what was I thinking? Definitely forgot we were talking about " sublingual, " and not just oral. Adrienne > > Just a note - as I understand it, the point of sublingual is that it is > absorbed directly into the bloodstream under the tongue and through the > cheek. The reasoning being that B12 are large molecules and this is an > efficient way(?) to get the stuff into the blood. But I am not sure how > MUCH gets absorbed this way, and I guess that most must go to the gut. > > n > > At 03:10 22/03/02, Adrienne wrote: > >I think you can take as much orally as by > >injection, but then it has to pass thru the digestive tract and obviously > >that could make a big (negative) difference. > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 Just a note - as I understand it, the point of sublingual is that it is absorbed directly into the bloodstream under the tongue and through the cheek. The reasoning being that B12 are large molecules and this is an efficient way(?) to get the stuff into the blood. But I am not sure how MUCH gets absorbed this way, and I guess that most must go to the gut. n At 03:10 22/03/02, Adrienne wrote: >I think you can take as much orally as by >injection, but then it has to pass thru the digestive tract and obviously >that could make a big (negative) difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 I read a lot about B12 when I was deciding, and it seemed the best thing was to take BOTH. They worked in different ways. If you can only take one, the jury is out on which one. Doris Re: Re: B12 detox > Right - my Jarrow sublingual is 5mg. I just don't see why anyone would go > to the much greater trouble of using injections if the sublinguals really > have the same effect, but stranger things do happen in CFS! I use the > tablets because the injections tend to get expensive and I don't want to > have to justify yet another thing to my doctor who is already squirming in > despair at the information that I bring. > > n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2002 Report Share Posted March 22, 2002 Adrienne, From B12, I get the signs of detoxification that I talked about in the notes entitled Hypofibrinolysis and Toxification that I posted the other day under the heading Natural Fibrinolytics. Supplements are not taken by injection here in the UK outside a clinical setting. I was so badly toxed up that 7 years ago I could only tolerate 50 mcg daily of cyanocobalamin (hard to believe now) because of blisters and skin eruptions on my hands and forearms. Over the years, I worked up to 1 mg daily and then last year tried one 250 mcg tablet daily of hydroxycobalamin. Altho only nominally a quarter of the strength, here's what happened; 'In mid-July, I tried 250 mcg hydroxycobalamin with 1 mg co-enzyme to aid conversion to the biologically active forms of methyl- and adenosylcobalamin and the increase in pains was astonishing. There were cycling pains at all the worst-affected places and after a few days, these areas started to reduce to the very worst and most longstanding - left neck/shoulder, elbows, wrists, right hip, back of left knee and to the inside of the kneecap, front outside of right knee, ankles and big toe joints. What was most interesting was that at many of these sites, the pains were in the bones as well - particularly at the right knee, where the bones were tender to the touch. The most striking effects were at the left wrist, where the tendons had been painful for years and an operation 5 months before to remove a ganglion on the joint capsule had not healed well internally. Pains were very severe for 16 days then the swelling on the wound went down and pain levels disappeared when resting and dropped dramatically on flexing. I also experienced intermittent closure of the left sinus followed by increased mucus. Side effects at 250 mcg were eye and eyelid soreness and redness, which were largely due to toxins in the bloodstream, and occasional slight nosebleeds. I found 250 mcg to be an adequate and sustainable maintenance dose.' Let me say once and for all that I have no connection with any company, these are my own private notes, I don't even know if the product is available stateside and I don't think you'd find the word 'astonishing' anywhere else in my notes. BioCare don't give a web address as such but they do give an e-mail address; biocare@... Rob Re: Re: B12 detox > In a message dated 3/21/02 1:52:55 PM Mountain Standard Time, > robnapier@... writes: > > > Certainly, I find that oral hydroxycobalamin (with co-factor) works well for > > me. > > I am very glad to hear this! Of course the proof of the pudding is in the > eating! > Could you give more detail of how much you use, and what the benefits are for > you. Also, how long did you use it before noticing an effect (I could tell > after the first shot.) How long have you been taking it?Did you ever try > shots? I know people that could benefit from b12 but who won't take shots. > Would love to be able to tell them about this alternative. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2002 Report Share Posted March 22, 2002 n, Having taken sublingual B12 tablets and allowing then to dissolve under my tongue, I can confirm that most of the B12 does indeed go straight into the blood stream. This was proven by using before and after blood tests where my Doctor commented on the test results after I had been taking sublingual B12 by simply saying that he did not know how much B12 I had absorbed. Why? Simply because the measured value of B12 hit the stops! This gave clear confirmation that the B12 was well and truly being absorbed very effectively through my tongue. Regards, Andy Re: Re: B12 detox > Just a note - as I understand it, the point of sublingual is that it is > absorbed directly into the bloodstream under the tongue and through the > cheek. The reasoning being that B12 are large molecules and this is an > efficient way(?) to get the stuff into the blood. But I am not sure how > MUCH gets absorbed this way, and I guess that most must go to the gut. > > n > > At 03:10 22/03/02, Adrienne wrote: > >I think you can take as much orally as by > >injection, but then it has to pass thru the digestive tract and obviously > >that could make a big (negative) difference. > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2002 Report Share Posted March 22, 2002 I don't think it requires a high dose of hydroxy (shot) to cross the blood brain barrier, it's just that a small % gets through. So you need a very large dose to get a decent amount in the brain. Doris ----- Original Message ----- From: " j_bdules " <j_bdules@...> > > i've been considering the shots myself because of the above > reasoning. i know i had b12 levels checked before starting the shots > and they were high((i take a multi which has high levels of methyl > b12). but is it the shots in particular or just the high doses, so > that the b12, in high concentration, can cross the blood brain > barrier more efficiently for whatever reason? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2002 Report Share Posted March 22, 2002 I just finished a bottle of injectable methly, because Hydroxy was unavailabe. I don't think I did as well on it as on the hydroxy, but I will know better after I get into the new hydroxy I have now. Will let you all know. Adrienne In a message dated 3/22/02 6:26:13 PM Mountain Standard Time, dorisbrown9@... writes: > > I personally take hydroxy by injection (I don't think it is available > sublingual.) I started with that and it helped my cognitive problems from > day one. When I couldn't get it for a while, I got some methyl sublingual > and used that for a few days. I don't really know if it did anything, I > didn't take it that long before my hydroxy showed up again. I do believe it > would be best to take some of each, since they seem to work differently. > But if i had to choose I would take hydroxy injection simply because it is > the one I know worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2002 Report Share Posted March 22, 2002 You guys have to remember, nothing you read about B12 for regular people applies to people with CFS. For one thing, for some reason B12 doesn't seem to get into our brains. For another thing, at these high doses recommend for CFS, the B12 isn't acting just as B12, it's acting to neutralize neurotoxins. So listen to what people with and treating CFS say, and try for yourself. But I wouldn't use normal " nutritional " guidelines to make your decision. Thanks, Doris ----- Original Message ----- From: " Napier " <robnapier@...> > In his book Encyclopedia of Nutritional Supplements, Murray argues > that oral B12 is as good as and a lot cheaper than shots. He says the US > habit of relying on injections has arisen thro ignorance by medics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2002 Report Share Posted March 22, 2002 I personally take hydroxy by injection (I don't think it is available sublingual.) I started with that and it helped my cognitive problems from day one. When I couldn't get it for a while, I got some methyl sublingual and used that for a few days. I don't really know if it did anything, I didn't take it that long before my hydroxy showed up again. I do believe it would be best to take some of each, since they seem to work differently. But if i had to choose I would take hydroxy injection simply because it is the one I know worked. Thanks, Doris Re: B12 detox > this may have been already discussed, and if so i apologize...do you > take the methyl or hydroxo b12 sublingually? seems you *can* get a > high dose methyl (the aforementioned jarrow), but hydroxo is much > harder to come by sublingually. how do you feel the > differences/benefits comparatively in your own experience taking both? > julia > > > I read a lot about B12 when I was deciding, and it seemed the best > thing was > > to take BOTH. They worked in different ways. > > Doris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2002 Report Share Posted March 22, 2002 Duhh; what was I thinking? Definitely forgot we were talking about " sublingual, " and not just oral. Adrienne > > Just a note - as I understand it, the point of sublingual is that it is > absorbed directly into the bloodstream under the tongue and through the > cheek. The reasoning being that B12 are large molecules and this is an > efficient way(?) to get the stuff into the blood. But I am not sure how > MUCH gets absorbed this way, and I guess that most must go to the gut. > > n > > At 03:10 22/03/02, Adrienne wrote: > >I think you can take as much orally as by > >injection, but then it has to pass thru the digestive tract and obviously > >that could make a big (negative) difference. > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2002 Report Share Posted March 22, 2002 I just finished a bottle of injectable methly, because Hydroxy was unavailabe. I don't think I did as well on it as on the hydroxy, but I will know better after I get into the new hydroxy I have now. Will let you all know. Adrienne In a message dated 3/22/02 6:26:13 PM Mountain Standard Time, dorisbrown9@... writes: > > I personally take hydroxy by injection (I don't think it is available > sublingual.) I started with that and it helped my cognitive problems from > day one. When I couldn't get it for a while, I got some methyl sublingual > and used that for a few days. I don't really know if it did anything, I > didn't take it that long before my hydroxy showed up again. I do believe it > would be best to take some of each, since they seem to work differently. > But if i had to choose I would take hydroxy injection simply because it is > the one I know worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Doris, I did not express a personal opinion as to whether Murray's approach would apply to PWCFS cos I'm aware of the issues, but on a point of information , the studies that he draws upon were done with seriously ill people, generally I think with pernicious anaemia. I suggest you study the article and references. Rob Re: Re: B12 detox > You guys have to remember, nothing you read about B12 for regular people > applies to people with CFS. For one thing, for some reason B12 doesn't seem > to get into our brains. For another thing, at these high doses recommend > for CFS, the B12 isn't acting just as B12, it's acting to neutralize > neurotoxins. So listen to what people with and treating CFS say, and try > for yourself. But I wouldn't use normal " nutritional " guidelines to make > your decision. > Thanks, > Doris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: " Napier " <robnapier@...> > > > In his book Encyclopedia of Nutritional Supplements, Murray argues > > that oral B12 is as good as and a lot cheaper than shots. He says the US > > habit of relying on injections has arisen thro ignorance by medics. > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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