Re: younger appearance of PWC's

[Guest guest]

i have aged alot in the past 3 years..lots of gray hair and wrinkles..lost

muscle tone..i am 44..was hit at 38..looked " younger " until about 2-3 years

ago ..then a major change..i also feel the illness is progressing and doing

more damage...barbara

[Guest guest]

I've wondered if this is because they start out with low hGH levels to begin

with, as children, so their facial features don't mature as much as other

people.

However, I have to say that although I looked really young for my age for

years, when this episode of CFS/FM hit, my face aged 15 years in a three

year period. At the age of 41, I now have lots of gray hair, (none before)

wrinkles and sagging skin on my face. I've never had sun damage from

overexposure to the sun (I've never been much of an outdoor person, never

sunburned very easily, never sunburned on my face, etc.), and none of my

siblings, even the ones older than me, have any gray hair or wrinkles at

all, in spite of being sunburned and dark tanned every summer when they were

growing up, and one of my brothers is a contractor, lots of outdoor work.

But up until about three years ago, the movie theater people were still

asking for my I.D. to get into R movies, and not my husbands. (I'd chalk it

up to trying to flatter the women, except my friend, (woman) who is my age,

also did not have to show an I.D., but I did.)

The other day, my husband and I ate at a restaurant, and they asked if I had

a senior citizen card, but not my husband. Actually, I didn't take it

personally, because I was just too delighted to be able to have enough

energy to actually get out of the house for a change - who cares how old I

look. I'd take looking ten years older than I do, if it meant having enough

energy and being pain free enough to have a normal life.

lindaj@...

younger appearance of PWC's

> In a message dated 11/9/01 10:10:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> writes:

>

>

> > Hi all!

> > It seems tome that PWC's generally look younger.

> > Do you agree?

> > What do you thiink the reason could be?

> >

>

> I've always noticed this myself.

> - S.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Intriguing theory about how PWC's may look young due to low HGH production

as children which may result in less maturing of facial features. I suspect

I had low HGH as a child as I had terrible growing pains in my legs. I

wonder if other PWC's experienced growing pains as children? Could a

certain subset of the population be programmed, for lack of a better word,

to get CFS due to our genetic make-up or some other factor? Steve B.

>From: " " <lindaj@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: Re: younger appearance of PWC's

>Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:02:22 -0600

>

>I've wondered if this is because they start out with low hGH levels to

>begin

>with, as children, so their facial features don't mature as much as other

>people.

>

>However, I have to say that although I looked really young for my age for

>years, when this episode of CFS/FM hit, my face aged 15 years in a three

>year period. At the age of 41, I now have lots of gray hair, (none before)

>wrinkles and sagging skin on my face. I've never had sun damage from

>overexposure to the sun (I've never been much of an outdoor person, never

>sunburned very easily, never sunburned on my face, etc.), and none of my

>siblings, even the ones older than me, have any gray hair or wrinkles at

>all, in spite of being sunburned and dark tanned every summer when they

>were

>growing up, and one of my brothers is a contractor, lots of outdoor work.

>

>But up until about three years ago, the movie theater people were still

>asking for my I.D. to get into R movies, and not my husbands. (I'd chalk it

>up to trying to flatter the women, except my friend, (woman) who is my age,

>also did not have to show an I.D., but I did.)

>

>The other day, my husband and I ate at a restaurant, and they asked if I

>had

>a senior citizen card, but not my husband. Actually, I didn't take it

>personally, because I was just too delighted to be able to have enough

>energy to actually get out of the house for a change - who cares how old I

>look. I'd take looking ten years older than I do, if it meant having enough

>energy and being pain free enough to have a normal life.

>

>

>lindaj@...

>

> younger appearance of PWC's

>

>

> > In a message dated 11/9/01 10:10:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> > writes:

> >

> >

> > > Hi all!

> > > It seems tome that PWC's generally look younger.

> > > Do you agree?

> > > What do you thiink the reason could be?

> > >

> >

> > I've always noticed this myself.

> > - S.

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> I've wondered if this is because they start out with low hGH levels to

begin

> with, as children, so their facial features don't mature as much as other

> people.

I don't know ,or is it because we have high production of HGH for some

time and low production at later phases.

I share your experiences about looking old at later stages. I used to look

at least 10 years younger than I was until last year. Last year I moved to a

different level at which I was seriously disabled. Within a one year time I

started looking older than my age.At least 5 years.My old friends were being

shocked when saw me.

Take care..

Nil

>

[Guest guest]

i seem to have the same symptoms of extreme exhaustion and aging...i looked

great the first 3 years and then plumetted..i do takre glutathione w/

whey..vitamins..my hgh levels are fine..for me this may be related to

estrogen and progesterone..and an early menopause..i really don't know..but

would like to stop the aging...i rest..i sleep...i take vitamions..eat

well..what else can i do????barbara

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

I can't resist this one, I'm sorry for all who have aged prematurely, and

have this disease too.

I'm responding to this question for one reason , and only one, I look at

least 10 years younger then my age, I look at my friends my age, and my 2

sisters, and where miles apart in appearance,.I chalked it up to 24yrs. of

vitamins, minerals ,herbs, lots

of rest, no children, and I don't , and can't go in the sun now, but used

to, and last but not least...I don't laugh near enough...no laugh lines.

So I turned 54, and I don't have one wrinkle yet in my face, hardly any gray

hair.

So here's the point, I'm seeing a maybe a pattern?

I've tried HGH homeopathic, and similar substances, and cannot tolerate..I

don't seem to need them, just made me shaky.

sorta nervous..does this mean I'm still producing plenty of growth hormone

by all the remedies I take and supporting this important hormone, you can

produce HGH by exercise I heard on TV the other night..I found that

interesting.....

maybe we should all put our heads together and figure out who looks younger

and who looks older and if there's a HGH connection..one needs it more, if

looking older, and younger looking PWC'S's are supporting it with a

supplement?? or supplements...and could not tolerate extra HGH.

or what?

something to think about..

Carol

Re: younger appearance of PWC's

> i have aged alot in the past 3 years..lots of gray hair and wrinkles..lost

> muscle tone..i am 44..was hit at 38..looked " younger " until about 2-3

years

> ago ..then a major change..i also feel the illness is progressing and

doing

> more damage...barbara

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Steve,

I had never thought of a connection up until you mentioned it, but I suffered

horrible growing pains in my legs as well. I also seem to be one of the rare

PWC's who always had a sleep disorder. My Mom traces it back to when I was

very young, perhaps even an infant. I would lie awake wide-eyed during nap

time, and essentially started on a very rigid behavior sleep program when I

was a young kid. In second grade, I had a strange CFIDS-like illness for

almost a year, but it was much more like pediatric CFIDS than what I later

got at age 23. Then, I had headaches and flu-like symptoms and low-grade

fevers and I would always get very ill during or after gym class, got a bunch

of tests, and - in very CFIDS fashion - was told by my teacher that I was

faking it. I was sick on most days, but not nearly as sick as I was when I

had the sudden-onset CFIDS at age 23. I always considered myself very

healthy, however, and was extremely high-functioning and fairly athletic

except for that one year. I still think it's interesting that many of us had

pre-CFIDS symptoms at various points in our lives.

I am also curious in terms of genetic issues if others have had parents who

aged very slowly as well. Both of my parents have looked much younger than

their ages for most of their adult lives. I think I look about my age,

however.

Peggy

In a message dated 11/10/01 8:10:56 AM,

writes:

<<

Message: 12

Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 19:06:43 -0800

From: " Bullock " <reviewappraiser@...>

Subject: Re: younger appearance of PWC's

,

Intriguing theory about how PWC's may look young due to low HGH production

as children which may result in less maturing of facial features. I suspect

I had low HGH as a child as I had terrible growing pains in my legs. I

wonder if other PWC's experienced growing pains as children? Could a

certain subset of the population be programmed, for lack of a better word,

to get CFS due to our genetic make-up or some other factor? Steve B. >>

[Guest guest]

Well I just asked my husband how old he thought I looked......he is 20 years

older. He said at 60+ I look 50. I have always looked younger than my age.

Carole

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Thanks for very good reasoning. I do think that we do produce excess HGH at

some level of our illness and we start being deficient at another level.The

reason you could not tolerate it was probably because you already had excess

of it.

Take care of yourself very well and do not move to the next stage as it is

much worse as far as the exhaustion is concerned. I was not being able to go

to the sun like you said and I was getting plenty of colds and sore throats

at my previous stage and I was looking a lot younger. When I moved the the

next stage I did start looking old,I had extreme exhaustion but I did not

get colds as much and I started being able to go to sun.

Take care..

Nil

Re: younger appearance of PWC's

> Hi All,

> I can't resist this one, I'm sorry for all who have aged prematurely, and

> have this disease too.

> I'm responding to this question for one reason , and only one, I look at

> least 10 years younger then my age, I look at my friends my age, and my 2

> sisters, and where miles apart in appearance,.I chalked it up to 24yrs. of

> vitamins, minerals ,herbs, lots

> of rest, no children, and I don't , and can't go in the sun now, but used

> to, and last but not least...I don't laugh near enough...no laugh lines.

> So I turned 54, and I don't have one wrinkle yet in my face, hardly any

gray

> hair.

> So here's the point, I'm seeing a maybe a pattern?

> I've tried HGH homeopathic, and similar substances, and cannot tolerate..I

[Guest guest]

Steve,

When I was young I had terrible growing pains. I've always looked young, being

carded once at 33.

Also, along the similarity line, I had excruciatingly painful periods with heavy

clotting. I was never athletic as a child, only after becoming an adult and

disciplining myself to do it. BTW, At

about 50 my grandmother " ran out of steam " . I never heard them call it a name.

BeckSpelce

P.S. Thanks for the yogurt tip!

[Guest guest]

Hi!

I have looked younger than my age all my life. In the early stages of CFS, which

included the thyroid breaking down (from 1993- 1998), I started aging rapidly

and looked very old. I had tests done

and was told my body age was equivalent to a person in their 70's, I was in my

fifties.

I am now 59, have been working fulltime for the past year, have resumed spending

time on things that interest me (am having a hard time getting caught up with

housework, though). The nice thing

is, nobody can believe I am 59, I have very few grey hairs, smooth skin and good

muscle tone.

I think if we go beyond thinking of CFS as a growth hormone imbalance and start

thinking of CFS in terms of a body that can't clear itself of toxins, whether

environmental, metallic, food related,

physical or emotional or whatever, we will get a better picture of what we are

about.

I got my body to re-learn to get rid of toxic waste with massive anti-oxidants,

melatonin, repairing hormonal glands - adrenals, improving blood supply - blood

thinners, blood cleansing teas, etc.

ALL THINGS THAT, IF LEFT UNCHECKED, AGE US!

So, yes, I agree, CFS ages, but the CFS cure keeps us young.

Best Wishes, All

Merle

Carol Libby wrote:

> Hi All,

> I can't resist this one, I'm sorry for all who have aged prematurely, and

> have this disease too.

> I'm responding to this question for one reason , and only one, I look at

> least 10 years younger then my age, I look at my friends my age, and my 2

> sisters, and where miles apart in appearance,.I chalked it up to 24yrs. of

> vitamins, minerals ,herbs, lots

> of rest, no children, and I don't , and can't go in the sun now, but used

> to, and last but not least...I don't laugh near enough...no laugh lines.

> So I turned 54, and I don't have one wrinkle yet in my face, hardly any gray

> hair.

> So here's the point, I'm seeing a maybe a pattern?

> I've tried HGH homeopathic, and similar substances, and cannot tolerate..I

> don't seem to need them, just made me shaky.

> sorta nervous..does this mean I'm still producing plenty of growth hormone

> something to think about..

> Carol

>

>

> > i have aged alot in the past 3 years..lots of gray hair and wrinkles..lost

> > muscle tone..i am 44..was hit at 38..looked " younger " until about 2-3

> years

> > ago ..then a major change..i also feel the illness is progressing and

> doing

> > more damage...barbara

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, I am using Pregnenolone and it helps..

Nil

Re: Barbara, - younger appearance of

PWC's

>

> Barbara,

>

> I think the very rapid change in appearance you and mention is due

> largely to hormonal changes brought on by the CFS. Oxidative stress is

most

> definitely higher in PWC's but I think this is a symptom we've lived with

> for a long time - before actually contracting CFS. Maybe some of the

> appearance of aging you both mention could be partially reversed by some

> kind of hormone supplementation? Have either of you tried or take HGH

> injections? Pregnenelone? DHEA?

> Steve B.

[Guest guest]

My grandmother (on my mom's side) was always *sickly* also. My dad

told me that she was complaining of being sick the first time

he met her which was prbly when she was 42 or so.

Mike

BTW, At

> about 50 my grandmother " ran out of steam " . I never heard them

call it a name.

>

> BeckSpelce

[Guest guest]

Peggy,

I also had unusual sleep patterns years before CFIDS emerged. I would go 4,

5 even 6 months where I would sleep 5-6 hours a night and have a very high

energy level during the day. Then I would have periods of similar length

where I would sleep 9+ hours a night and have less energy during the day.

Dr. Jay Goldstein told me that growing pains as a child is much more common

in PWC's, as is Raynauds-like symptoms which I have had long before CFIDS.

If we look carefully there are probably a number of early " leading

indicators " , if I can borrow a phrase from economists. If we only knew what

was coming I believe we could have prevented full onset of the illness.

Steve B.

>From: Peggomatic@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: younger appearance of PWC's

>Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 15:43:02 EST

>

>Steve,

>

>I had never thought of a connection up until you mentioned it, but I

>suffered

>horrible growing pains in my legs as well. I also seem to be one of the

>rare

>PWC's who always had a sleep disorder. My Mom traces it back to when I was

>very young, perhaps even an infant. I would lie awake wide-eyed during nap

>time, and essentially started on a very rigid behavior sleep program when I

>was a young kid. In second grade, I had a strange CFIDS-like illness for

>almost a year, but it was much more like pediatric CFIDS than what I later

>got at age 23. Then, I had headaches and flu-like symptoms and low-grade

>fevers and I would always get very ill during or after gym class, got a

>bunch

>of tests, and - in very CFIDS fashion - was told by my teacher that I was

>faking it. I was sick on most days, but not nearly as sick as I was when I

>had the sudden-onset CFIDS at age 23. I always considered myself very

>healthy, however, and was extremely high-functioning and fairly athletic

>except for that one year. I still think it's interesting that many of us

>had

>pre-CFIDS symptoms at various points in our lives.

>

>I am also curious in terms of genetic issues if others have had parents who

>aged very slowly as well. Both of my parents have looked much younger than

>their ages for most of their adult lives. I think I look about my age,

>however.

>

>Peggy

>

>In a message dated 11/10/01 8:10:56 AM,

>writes:

>

><<

>Message: 12

> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 19:06:43 -0800

> From: " Bullock " <reviewappraiser@...>

>Subject: Re: younger appearance of PWC's

>

>

>,

>

>Intriguing theory about how PWC's may look young due to low HGH production

>as children which may result in less maturing of facial features. I

>suspect

>I had low HGH as a child as I had terrible growing pains in my legs. I

>wonder if other PWC's experienced growing pains as children? Could a

>certain subset of the population be programmed, for lack of a better word,

>to get CFS due to our genetic make-up or some other factor? Steve B. >>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

Beck,

Based on the responses from the list members, it looks like Dr. Jay

Goldstein was correct when he told me a few years ago that growing pains

were more common in PWC's and FM's. I was carded for the last time at 38 by

a young drugstore cashier. I was more amazed by the fact that he carded me

for buying O'Douls non-alcohol beer. He pointed to the label on the beer

and said " it has (about) 0.5% or less alcohol content " . Steve B.

>From: Beck Spelce <beckhs@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: younger appearance of PWC's

>Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 21:19:19 -0600

>

>Steve,

>

>When I was young I had terrible growing pains. I've always looked young,

>being carded once at 33.

>Also, along the similarity line, I had excruciatingly painful periods with

>heavy clotting. I was never athletic as a child, only after becoming an

>adult and disciplining myself to do it. BTW, At

>about 50 my grandmother " ran out of steam " . I never heard them call it a

>name.

>

>BeckSpelce

>

>P.S. Thanks for the yogurt tip!

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

You can add me to the list of PWC's with bad growing pains as a child. As

you say this does seem to be a strong pattern, unless EVERYBODY (inc

healthy people) would think they once had serious growing pains?

Very interesting observation,

n

At 12:39 12/11/01, you wrote:

>Peggy,

>

>I also had unusual sleep patterns years before CFIDS emerged. I would go 4,

>5 even 6 months where I would sleep 5-6 hours a night and have a very high

>energy level during the day. Then I would have periods of similar length

>where I would sleep 9+ hours a night and have less energy during the day.

>Dr. Jay Goldstein told me that growing pains as a child is much more common

>in PWC's, as is Raynauds-like symptoms which I have had long before CFIDS.

>If we look carefully there are probably a number of early " leading

>indicators " , if I can borrow a phrase from economists. If we only knew what

>was coming I believe we could have prevented full onset of the illness.

>Steve B.

> >From: Peggomatic@...

> >Reply-

> >

> >Subject: Re: younger appearance of PWC's

> >Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 15:43:02 EST

> >

> >Steve,

> >

> >I had never thought of a connection up until you mentioned it, but I

> >suffered

> >horrible growing pains in my legs as well. I also seem to be one of the

> >rare

> >PWC's who always had a sleep disorder. My Mom traces it back to when I was

> >very young, perhaps even an infant. I would lie awake wide-eyed during nap

> >time, and essentially started on a very rigid behavior sleep program when I

> >was a young kid. In second grade, I had a strange CFIDS-like illness for

> >almost a year, but it was much more like pediatric CFIDS than what I later

> >got at age 23. Then, I had headaches and flu-like symptoms and low-grade

> >fevers and I would always get very ill during or after gym class, got a

> >bunch

> >of tests, and - in very CFIDS fashion - was told by my teacher that I was

> >faking it. I was sick on most days, but not nearly as sick as I was when I

> >had the sudden-onset CFIDS at age 23. I always considered myself very

> >healthy, however, and was extremely high-functioning and fairly athletic

> >except for that one year. I still think it's interesting that many of us

> >had

> >pre-CFIDS symptoms at various points in our lives.

> >

> >I am also curious in terms of genetic issues if others have had parents who

> >aged very slowly as well. Both of my parents have looked much younger than

> >their ages for most of their adult lives. I think I look about my age,

> >however.

> >

> >Peggy

> >

> >In a message dated 11/10/01 8:10:56 AM,

> >writes:

> >

> ><<

> >Message: 12

> > Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 19:06:43 -0800

> > From: " Bullock " <reviewappraiser@...>

> >Subject: Re: younger appearance of PWC's

> >

> >

> >,

> >

> >Intriguing theory about how PWC's may look young due to low HGH production

> >as children which may result in less maturing of facial features. I

> >suspect

> >I had low HGH as a child as I had terrible growing pains in my legs. I

> >wonder if other PWC's experienced growing pains as children? Could a

> >certain subset of the population be programmed, for lack of a better word,

> >to get CFS due to our genetic make-up or some other factor? Steve B. >>

> >

>

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

>

>

>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

>other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

>discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Count me in - slept very little, growing pains, abdominal pains which were

diagnosed as IBD in teens, always cold, achy joints....looked younger than

my age until my CFIDS became severe in early 1999. From that point on I have

aged rapidly, to where I look older than my age at the moment. I too was

carded going into a bar well into my 30's, and proud I was of that!!! Ahhhh,

the days of long ago!!!

Donna in NC

Re: Re: younger appearance of PWC's

>

> Peggy,

>

> I also had unusual sleep patterns years before CFIDS emerged. I would go

4, 5 even 6 months where I would sleep 5-6 hours a night and have a very

high energy level during the day. Then I would have periods of similar

length where I would sleep 9+ hours a night and have less energy during the

day. Dr. Jay Goldstein told me that growing pains as a child is much more

common in PWC's, as is Raynauds-like symptoms which I have had long before

CFIDS.

> If we look carefully there are probably a number of early " leading

indicators " , if I can borrow a phrase from economists. If we only knew what

was coming I believe we could have prevented full onset of the illness.

> Steve B.

[Guest guest]

" Dr. Jay Goldstein told me that growing pains as a child is much more

common in PWC's, as is Raynauds-like symptoms which I have had long

before CFIDS. " Steve B

Seems we have verification in numbers of sorts. I also had Raynauds-

like symptoms as a child.

[Guest guest]

And what is auds?

Mike

> Seems we have verification in numbers of sorts. I also had

Raynauds-

> like symptoms as a child.

[Guest guest]

on 11/11/01 8:39 pm, Bullock at reviewappraiser@... wrote:

> Peggy,

>

> I also had unusual sleep patterns years before CFIDS emerged. I would go 4,

> 5 even 6 months where I would sleep 5-6 hours a night and have a very high

> energy level during the day. Then I would have periods of similar length

> where I would sleep 9+ hours a night and have less energy during the day.

> Dr. Jay Goldstein told me that growing pains as a child is much more common

> in PWC's, as is Raynauds-like symptoms which I have had long before CFIDS.

> If we look carefully there are probably a number of early " leading

> indicators " , if I can borrow a phrase from economists. If we only knew what

> was coming I believe we could have prevented full onset of the illness.

> Steve B.

Steve, Peggy, & All,

Forgive me if you've already bounced around the idea (as I haven't been

following the list regularly) but awhile back I originally asked: *Does

anyone else experience 'growing pains' that seem to be associated with their

Growth Hormone injections?*

I nearly always take my 0.2 mg Genotropin GH in the day now because every

time I've taken it just before bed I've awakened the following morning with

a feeling in my legs which is identical to the old 'growing pains' of

childhood. And I say this as a person who knows he has RLS; and who takes

medication for the RLS even.

If I look at it in a slightly differeent way, it's as if either my RLS is

really worsened by the GH via some indirect neuropharmacological effect of

the GH -OR- as if the GH somehow antagonizes the effect of my RLS

medication. Perhaps GH possesses a dopamine blocking property‹via perhaps

an indirect neuropharmacological route[?]‹which could explain the worsening

of RLS symptoms and also the RLS medication's lack of efficacy.

My reasoning is simple:

-RLS Sx can be relieved by- and are treated with- drugs which are known to

boost dopamine in one way or another: L-DOPA, Sinemet, Bromocriptine,

opioids, and newer DA agonists, etc.

-drugs which have a dopamine-blocking effect (antipsychotics/neuroleptics,

Kava at low to moderate dose, some antidepressants esp. SSRI's) are known to

make RLS symptoms worse.

-therefore when I take GH and my RLS Sx get worse /'growing pains' arise, it

would appear that the GH is have some sort of DA antagonist effect.

-also, GHB (gamma hydroxybutyrate) which is mistakenly foisted on the public

primarily as a " date rape drug " is well known to boost hGH levels in humans;

it is also well known to have a DA blocking effect and to make RLS Sx worse

in sufferers of the syndrome. [NB: this is by no means direct evidence.

just a loose but significant seeming association.]

Again, sorry if you've already dealt with this issue but i'm really curious

to know if there are others whose RLS Sx worsen with GH injections or if

there are those out there who experience 'growing pains' after GH

injections.

Bestest,

--

Hud (8 >{D)

[Guest guest]

I have always thought that I look young for my age and

I too had growing pains in my legs through childhood.

However on the insulin stress test I put out a good

peak of hGH and I have good muscle tone.

Bob S.

<reviewappraiser@...>

Subject: Re: younger appearance of PWC's

,

Intriguing theory about how PWC's may look young due

to low HGH

production

as children which may result in less maturing of

facial features. I

suspect

I had low HGH as a child as I had terrible growing

pains in my legs. I

wonder if other PWC's experienced growing pains as

children? Could a

certain subset of the population be programmed, for

lack of a better

word,

to get CFS due to our genetic make-up or some other

factor? Steve B.

>>

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[Guest guest]

could someone please send me the positive quote from nov 12 about being

hard on oneself but lenient on others? thanks, I deleted it by accident.

C

[Guest guest]

> I have always thought that I look young for my age and

> I too had growing pains in my legs through childhood.

> However on the insulin stress test I put out a good

> peak of hGH and I have good muscle tone.

>

> Bob S.

>

> <reviewappraiser@h...>

> Subject: Re: younger appearance of PWC's

>

>

> ,

>

> Intriguing theory about how PWC's may look young due

> to low HGH

> production

> as children which may result in less maturing of

> facial features. I

> suspect

> I had low HGH as a child as I had terrible growing

> pains in my legs. I

> wonder if other PWC's experienced growing pains as

> children? Could a

> certain subset of the population be programmed, for

> lack of a better

> word,

> to get CFS due to our genetic make-up or some other

> factor? Steve B.

> >>Yes Steve, I had " growing pains " in my legs as a child. I am not

so sure it is so much genetic " programming " as it is the fact that in

any viral disease there are those who are more susceptible due to

many factors including nutrition, lifestyle and stress as well as

genetics. So while genetics is a factor it is not the only factor

and I believe you have to " factor into it " the other aspects

mentioned above as well as the fact that viruses mutate(change)

regularly in order to adapt to changing conditions and there are more

than one strain as it were of many known viruses. So it is rather

complicated but yes I do agree that genetics plays a large role in

how we experience our diseases exactly. I have always wondered what

exact mechanism would apply to stealth viral illness in this regard

and I think that is a salient question from a scientific viewpoint.

We do know for example that even some albeit very rare cases of

infection with HIV does not produce any sign of AIDS much less full-

blown AIDS. Those protections are apparently genetic. Genetics is a

very complex field and how genetics affects the functioning of the

immune system would be a subfield thereof(ie, " immunogenetics " )and

the immmunogenetics of CFS has been studied in some measure by

Klimas et al at the University of Miami and also Dedra Buchwald at

the University of Washington has sought to put a genetic map upon CFS

via her study of twins with CFS. However these efforts have not

proven to be very in-depth as yet so we don't really know very much

in the way of specifics but only that undoubtedly there is a large

yet precisely as yet undefined role of genetic factors in the ability

to handle stealth virus illness(which is what should be studied,

whereas those other researchers studied only " CFS " which undoubtedly

represents both viral and nonviral illness to some degree).

> Jeff

>

> __________________________________________________

>