Re: Mindfulness and Les Fehmi - alpha, a natural healing state

[Guest guest]

I agree with you that mindfulness meditation is something different from

neurofeedback, and it is undoubtedly more significant. There is some

overlap, though, which I can't quite explain, being a novice at both. I hope

your suggestions can help others in the group as you've been helped.

I will say that for years post-CFS I found mindfulness meditation impossible

to do--perhaps because of mercury suppressing beta waves? At one time I

found it easy to do, and now I can do it again, a little bit, but still not

as I did. For years in between, it felt like a battle rather than a joy; it

gave me a raging headache which would last for hours or days, and I would

also fall asleep after a few minutes of meditating and wake up feeling I'd

been run over by a truck. I'm so glad for you that you are able to do it and

find satisfaction. I also like Kabat Zinn's books.

I want to make it clear that in the sentence of mine you quoted I meant

" WAKE UP " in the literal physical sense, not in the spiritual sense as

meditators often use the phrase.

C.

> Mindfulness and Les Fehmi - alpha, a

> natural healing state

>

>

> I have a few thoughts about what is saying in the passage

> below. I

> have found great benefit from mindful meditation. The goal for me is

> distinction and distance. It is about becoming aware of what I

> feel, think

> and sense.

>

> I do it by being mindful of my breath, the sounds around me, the

> sensations

> in my body, etc. In the process, it makes me aware of my mind

> (distinction)

> and therefore slightly more removed from it (distance). It is waking up

> from the automatic dreamlike state our mind is used to having us

> operate in.

> It isn't the neurofeedback you're talking about but I find it healing.

>

> If anyone is interested Jon Kabat-Zinn has written 2 good books for

> exploring it: " Full Catastrophe Living: Dealing with Chronic Pain and

> Stress " ; and " Wherever You Go, There You Are " . The first book has a

> companion 2 tape series for meditation guidance for $22. It has

> helped me

> become aware of the endless loop of mind reacting to body

> reacting to mind.

>

> Chris

>

>

> >

> >But here's the thing, Nil: it's not just relaxation that we want to

> >achieve.

> >The neurofeedback also helps the mind learn to WAKE UP and be

> less dreamy .

> >. . so be aware of the quality of your meditations/relaxations and notice

> >what techniques accomplish what effects. In the morning or before doing

> >something requiring attention, you want your body relaxed but your mind

> >open

> >and alert > C.

> >

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

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>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

> with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are

> interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear ,,

I know that sleeping right after meditation is not good. I do not know the

reason but it takes away benefits of meditation.You need to try not to do

that. You may keep a metal spoon in your hand while meditating. It will fall

down when you sleep and you will not continue sleeping.

Take care:

NIl

RE: Mindfulness and Les Fehmi - alpha, a

natural healing state

|

| I agree with you that mindfulness meditation is something different from

| neurofeedback, and it is undoubtedly more significant. There is some

| overlap, though, which I can't quite explain, being a novice at both. I

hope

| your suggestions can help others in the group as you've been helped.

|

| I will say that for years post-CFS I found mindfulness meditation

impossible

| to do--perhaps because of mercury suppressing beta waves? At one time I

| found it easy to do, and now I can do it again, a little bit, but still

not

| as I did. For years in between, it felt like a battle rather than a joy;

it

| gave me a raging headache which would last for hours or days, and I would

| also fall asleep after a few minutes of meditating and wake up feeling I'd

| been run over by a truck. I'm so glad for you that you are able to do it

and

| find satisfaction. I also like Kabat Zinn's books.

|

| I

[Guest guest]

That's interesting, but don't worry, I don't do it at all anymore because

I'm not meditating anymore. It made me feel too awful.

And, my meditation teacher would disagree with you about sleeping. He told

me to go ahead, if that's what I needed to do.

I realize that I'm breaking some kind of taboo here by saying that

meditation did not help me when I was most sick. There's a lot of pressure

from the meditation community to find their techniques beneficial. I don't

know why others are able to do it and I was not. It was like torture. Maybe

if I had persisted I would have been helped eventually, but I

couldn't/didn't carry on.

I am a big fan of meditation, have had most profound meditational

experiences, and I am slowly slowly slowly coming back into it as I am

getting my strength back, but I'm having to accept a far lower level of

intensity and time, and also satisfaction, much like exercise.

For some reason this exchange between us feels hostile. If that's just me

being unnecessarily defensive, I apologize. Anyway, I'm going to drop this

thread unless something more substantial and relevant to the

group comes up. I am very glad your experiences have been

positive.

C.

> Re: Mindfulness and Les Fehmi - alpha, a

> natural healing state

>

>

> Dear ,,

>

> I know that sleeping right after meditation is not good. I do not know the

> reason but it takes away benefits of meditation.You need to try not to do

> that. You may keep a metal spoon in your hand while meditating.

> It will fall

> down when you sleep and you will not continue sleeping.

> Take care:

>

> NIl

> RE: Mindfulness and Les Fehmi - alpha, a

> natural healing state

>

>

> |

> | I agree with you that mindfulness meditation is something different from

> | neurofeedback, and it is undoubtedly more significant. There is some

> | overlap, though, which I can't quite explain, being a novice at both. I

> hope

> | your suggestions can help others in the group as you've been helped.

> |

> | I will say that for years post-CFS I found mindfulness meditation

> impossible

> | to do--perhaps because of mercury suppressing beta waves? At one time I

> | found it easy to do, and now I can do it again, a little bit, but still

> not

> | as I did. For years in between, it felt like a battle rather than a joy;

> it

> | gave me a raging headache which would last for hours or days,

> and I would

> | also fall asleep after a few minutes of meditating and wake up

> feeling I'd

> | been run over by a truck. I'm so glad for you that you are able to do it

> and

> | find satisfaction. I also like Kabat Zinn's books.

> |

> | I

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

> with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are

> interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I do a lot of guided meditations, often before bed. Like the Bernie Segal ones

for cancer patients. He says it is perfectly fine to fall asleep during or

after meditations. I also have some guided meditiations that are specifically

designed with certain frequencies to help you fall asleep. So I'm not sure how

it can be a general statement that falling asleep after meditation is bad.

I will say that sometimes I am fine with the meditations. Other times they just

irritate the hell out of my brain and make me nuts and I just turn them off.

(Especially the ones with the music designed to induce certain brain waves.)

This didn't happen until my cognitive brain function got really bad. The qEEG

showed my brain waves are screwed up, and when that happens we compensate by

using other less efficient brain waves. I think that's what is going on. The

brain waves I am using are being irritated by the music.

Doris

[Guest guest]

Hi Doris!

I think there was some kind of confusion about my note. May be it was not

clear enough. Let me explain it more clearly.

was saying " and I would

| also fall asleep after a few minutes of meditating and wake up feeling I'd

| been run over by a truck. "

So,my answer was related to this part.I thought she was falling a sleep

while meditating and her purpose was not sleeping.

If your purpose is meditating ,sleeping while meditating is not preferable.

Because in that case you do not get the benefits of meditation fully.

There is no problem in meditating for going to sleep,I also practice that.

In that case it helps you going to sleep and there is no problem doing that.

In that case you get benefits of sleeping more.

As far as I am concerned meditation helps me a lot if I can manage doing it.

Sometimes,when I am too anxious it gets wery hard.

Hope I have explained myself clearly this time.

Take care..

Nil

Re: Mindfulness and Les Fehmi - alpha, a

natural healing state

| I do a lot of guided meditations, often before bed. Like the Bernie Segal

ones for cancer patients. He says it is perfectly fine to fall asleep

during or after meditations. I also have some guided meditiations that are

specifically designed with certain frequencies to help you fall asleep. So

I'm not sure how it can be a general statement that falling asleep after

meditation is bad.

|

| I will say that sometimes I am fine with the meditations. Other times

they just irritate the hell out of my brain and make me nuts and I just turn

them off. (Especially the ones with the music designed to induce certain

brain waves.) This didn't happen until my cognitive brain function got

really bad. The qEEG showed my brain waves are screwed up, and when that

happens we compensate by using other less efficient brain waves. I think

that's what is going on. The brain waves I am using are being irritated by

the music.

|

| Doris

|

|

|