Guest guest Posted August 22, 2001 Report Share Posted August 22, 2001 Alan C. Logan wrote a letter to the editor of Alternative Medicine Review [Alt. Med. Rev. 6(1), pp.4-5 (Feb. 2001)] in which he argued that there is considerable evidence for elevated serotonergic activity in CFS, while evidence suggests that serotonergic activity is below normal in FM. He argued that therefore taking 5-HTP might be helpful in FM, but would not likely be helpful in CFS. I'm wondering how well this prediction agrees with the experience of people on this list. If you have tried 5-HTP, I would be interested to hear what the results were, and also whether you are predominantly suffering from CFS or FM. Please note that I am not encouraging you to try 5-HTP if you haven't already done so. I would just like to know the results if you already have tried it. The reason I'm not encouraging you to try it is that I note that Hendler and Rorvik in the new PDR for Nutritional Supplements state " Supplemental 5-HTP is not recommended. In Europe, a combination of 5-HTP with carbidopa is available, and this combination appears to have a safer profile. However, those who wish to use this combination product must do so only under medical supervision and prescription. It has been found that doses of 100 milligrams to 2 grams daily are required to observe any desired effect. These doses, without concomitant carbidopa, can be dangerous in some. Lower doses, which are available as dietary supplements, are unlikely to have any desirable effects. " Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2001 Report Share Posted August 22, 2001 > Alan C. Logan wrote a letter to the editor of Alternative Medicine > Review [Alt. Med. Rev. 6(1), pp.4-5 (Feb. 2001)] in which he argued > that there is considerable evidence for elevated serotonergic activity in CFS, while evidence suggests that serotonergic activity is below normal in FM. He argued that therefore taking 5-HTP might be helpful in FM, but would not likely be helpful in CFS... Rich, Thanks so much for posting this. Would it be possible for you to post an actual copy of Logan's letter - or a link to it? I've seen conflicting reports on whether PWCs are high or low in serotonin - perhaps because of failure to distinguish, as Logan does, between those with CFS and those with FM. To further confuse things, the latest issue (Summer 2001) of The CFS Research Review (put out by the CFIDS Assoc. of America) has as its lead story " Using Antidepressants to Treat Chronic Fatigue Syndrome " by Lapp, MD. Here's a quote from the article: " It needs to be emphasized that these drugs " [antidepressants] " are helpful not because patients are primarily depressed (although depression may occur as a result of the illness), but because they often have low levels of the neurotransmitters serotonin and dopamine. " The accompanying footnote cites " Hickie IB et al. A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of moclobemide in patients with chronic fatigue syndrome. J Clin Psych. 2000; 61: 643-8. " To me it's disappointing that Lapp's article doesn't mention over-the- counter supplements that affect neurotransmitter levels (e.g., 5-HTP, SAM-e, NADH, etc.), nor does he discuss how to test a person's neurotransmitter levels. E.B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2001 Report Share Posted August 22, 2001 An Allopathic MD that I saw recommeded both St. s Wort and 5-HTP taken together to improve sleep. Anyone with any experience with this combination? Brad > Alan C. Logan wrote a letter to the editor of Alternative Medicine > Review [Alt. Med. Rev. 6(1), pp.4-5 (Feb. 2001)] in which he argued > that there is considerable evidence for elevated serotonergic activity > in CFS, while evidence suggests that serotonergic activity is below > normal in FM. He argued that therefore taking 5-HTP might be helpful > in FM, but would not likely be helpful in CFS. > > I'm wondering how well this prediction agrees with the experience of > people on this list. If you have tried 5-HTP, I would be interested > to hear what the results were, and also whether you are predominantly > suffering from CFS or FM. > > Please note that I am not encouraging you to try 5-HTP if you haven't > already done so. I would just like to know the results if you already > have tried it. The reason I'm not encouraging you to try it is that I > note that Hendler and Rorvik in the new PDR for Nutritional > Supplements state " Supplemental 5-HTP is not recommended. In Europe, a > combination of 5-HTP with carbidopa is available, and this combination > appears to have a safer profile. However, those who wish to use this > combination product must do so only under medical supervision and > prescription. It has been found that doses of 100 milligrams to 2 > grams daily are required to observe any desired effect. These doses, > without concomitant carbidopa, can be dangerous in some. Lower doses, > which are available as dietary supplements, are unlikely to have any > desirable effects. " > > Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2001 Report Share Posted August 22, 2001 sounds dangerous, as St. 's Wort is an MAO inhibitor as well as having weak SSRI properties. Re: 5-HTP in CFS and in FM > An Allopathic MD that I saw recommeded both St. s Wort and 5-HTP > taken together to improve sleep. Anyone with any experience with this > combination? > > Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2001 Report Share Posted August 22, 2001 I've been taking 5-HTP for a couple years. I have both CFS and FM. I had CFS for 20+ years before the FM developed several years ago, and my CFS symptoms are worse than my FM symptoms. The 5-HTP helps me with depression. It doesn't seem to impact my other symptoms one way or the other whether I take it or not. I'm curious as to what dangerous problem the PDR for Nutritional Supplements was talking about? Some years ago I tried taking prescription antidepressants, and they made my fatigue so much worse (I was depressed because I was so fatigued to begin with) that all I could do was sleep all the time. And I took St. 's Wort for a year and a half and it just made me so super irritable that I finally concluded that it was causing me to have too much seretonin. I was taking the St. 's Wort at the time that my FM started. I've thought these two experiences might have been elevated serotonergic activity that you mentioned. However, I've had no problems with the 5-HTP. lindaj@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2001 Report Share Posted August 22, 2001 Is it possible that PWC's and PWF's may have both, fluctuating from one extreme to the other, and at any given time they might test high or at another time low? This seems to be what's happening to me. I swing from being so sleepy and can hardly stay awake and sleeping 12 to 14 hours a day for a few days to having insomnia and only being able to sleep 4 hours a day. I can't seem to get it consistent, and I concluded that my seretonin levels are fluctuating from day to day. If a study happens to coincide with PWC's high periods, the study would conclude they have elevated serotonergic activity. If it coincides with their low periods, they would conclude the opposite. If the study is based on a single test per person, (and if they are indeed doing spinals to test it accurately they would not be likely to do multiple spinals over a period of days) then it is even more likely that they will totally miss the fluctuation characteristics. As I understand it, testing spinal fluid and testing urine are the two methods for testing seretonin levels, with the spinal test supposedly more accurate. lindaj@... > To me it's disappointing that Lapp's article doesn't mention over-the- > counter supplements that affect neurotransmitter levels (e.g., 5-HTP, > SAM-e, NADH, etc.), nor does he discuss how to test a person's > neurotransmitter levels. > > E.B. > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2001 Report Share Posted August 23, 2001 Hi! St. 's Wort had a bad affect on my eyesight and I discontinued it. Would not use St. 's Wort for anything. Merle beidmann@... wrote: > An Allopathic MD that I saw recommeded both St. s Wort and 5-HTP > taken together to improve sleep. Anyone with any experience with this > combination? > > Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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